Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, rixalex said:

"Being told lies and probably partially fueled by hatred or angst against foreigners a small majority voted to leave the EU."

Firstly, let's not pretend lies were told by only one side.

Secondly, what I think actually fuelled a lot of people to vote leave wasn't "a hatred or angst against foreigners" (I actually think British people as a whole are not inclined to bigotry or racism), but rather people being told that they were racist or bigots simply for expressing reservations or doubts about the sustainability of having an open door policy for immigration.

The anger and frustration felt for many has been towards the politicians who have been responsible for immigration policy and towards those who have shut down the debate on immigration and insulted them in the process.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Can you remind us of the specific lies told by the remainers that might be equivalent to "there will be 350 million per week extra for the NHS"? That seems very specific and unequivocal, and untrue.

 

You might not see British people's bigotry, but I do.  When people from a third country turn up to a Scotland match shouting "If you hate the <deleted> Germans clap your hands", that strikes me as bigotry (3-0 in Germany's favour, if you're interested).  

 

The great thing is that after Brexit, we can import immigrants who have fewer rights and privileges (and more incentives to go illegal) - which will reduce the cost of labour across the board).  Great news for the employers, but not so hot for your local unskilled labour.

 

[sjaak327]

29 minutes ago, rixalex said:

"Being told lies and probably partially fueled by hatred or angst against foreigners a small majority voted to leave the EU."

Firstly, let's not pretend lies were told by only one side.

Secondly, what I think actually fuelled a lot of people to vote leave wasn't "a hatred or angst against foreigners" (I actually think British people as a whole are not inclined to bigotry or racism), but rather people being told that they were racist or bigots simply for expressing reservations or doubts about the sustainability of having an open door policy for immigration.

The anger and frustration felt for many has been towards the politicians who have been responsible for immigration policy and towards those who have shut down the debate on immigration and insulted them in the process.

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Well, I have heard the remainers telling stories that will undoubetely be true, the economic effects of brexit are already being felt, and you haven't even really left yet.

 

I did not even refer to the NHS lie, but quite frankly, I cannot truly believe that there are many people on this planet who cannot see Nigel Farage for the idiot that he really is. Maybe that person was the most hillarious aspect of the whole Brexit sharade. A dishonest lying politician, and he didn't even hide it, priceless. 

 

Truth be told, I don't care either way, other then some in this thread seems to believe, the EU most definitely does not need the UK, and I was always sceptical of the British attitude towards the EU. I am a person that believes the simple statement, either you are all in or out. Not half heartedly. That will never work. 

 

What I do find regretfull is that a small majority is dragging the whole UK down. IMHO calling for the referendum wasn't wrong, but it should have been introduced with a certain minimum difference in votes, the tiny 1% difference is simply not enough for such a profound decision. Democracy definitely lost here. 

 

What remains is an utter mess. Brought about for all the wrong reasons, as your post most certainly proves. The costs of the brexit will make the whole immigration matter look like peanuts in comparison. Good luck, you are going to need it. 

 

 

Edit to add: As far as I am aware, the UK doesn't have an open door immigration policy, any more than any other Western European country, where do you get that idea from ?

Edited January 5, 2019 by sjaak327

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Well, I have heard the remainers telling stories that will undoubetely be true, the economic effects of brexit are already being felt, and you haven't even really left yet.

 

I did not even refer to the NHS lie, but quite frankly, I cannot truly believe that there are many people on this planet who cannot see Nigel Farage for the idiot that he really is. Maybe that person was the most hillarious aspect of the whole Brexit sharade. A dishonest lying politician, and he didn't even hide it, priceless. 

 

Truth be told, I don't care either way, other then some in this thread seems to believe, the EU most definitely does not need the UK, and I was always sceptical of the British attitude towards the EU. I am a person that believes the simple statement, either you are all in or out. Not half heartedly. That will never work. 

 

What I do find regretfull is that a small majority is dragging the whole UK down. IMHO calling for the referendum wasn't wrong, but it should have been introduced with a certain minimum difference in votes, the tiny 1% difference is simply not enough for such a profound decision. Democracy definitely lost here. 

 

What remains is an utter mess. Brought about for all the wrong reasons, as your post most certainly proves. The costs of the brexit will make the whole immigration matter look like peanuts in comparison. Good luck, you are going to need it. 

 

 

 

Pah! Common sense has no place in politics, or the direction of nations.  If the people can be duped into voting one way, they should be forced to follow that to the bitter end.

 

Imagine if Germany had realised the foolishness of their path in 1938 and backed down?

 

No heroism of the Battle of Britain! No partition of Germany - who knows what would have happened vis a vis the Cold War.  No - people must be forced to live the consequences of their stupidity, regardless of whether they regret it sooner or later.

 

I'm just a little bit nervous about anything that brings us however slightly closer to the next war in Europe, by however little.  I'm not sure that is the direction we should be marching.  The Brexiteers have not convinced me yet that they are marching in the opposite direction.

 

 

[anon676545345]

13 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Can you remind us of the specific lies told by the remainers that might be equivalent to "there will be 350 million per week extra for the NHS"? That seems very specific and unequivocal, and untrue.

 

You might not see British people's bigotry, but I do.  When people from a third country turn up to a Scotland match shouting "If you hate the <deleted> Germans clap your hands", that strikes me as bigotry (3-0 in Germany's favour, if you're interested).  

 

The great thing is that after Brexit, we can import immigrants who have fewer rights and privileges (and more incentives to go illegal) - which will reduce the cost of labour across the board).  Great news for the employers, but not so hot for your local unskilled labour.

 

Remain Lies:

 

1. The punishment Budget

2. NHS finances would be undermined

3. David Cameron stating he'd stay on as prime minister and implement A50 immediately if leave won

4. Families would be £4300 worse off if we voted leave

5. Brexit would destroy western civilisation as we know it

"As a historian I fear Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also Western political civilization in its entirety," Donal Tusk 

6. Peace at risk 

7. Britain would be at the back of the queue for a US trade deal

 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, baboon said:

Those of you with an attention span of more than 5 minutes may find this of interest:

 

To be honest. I have an attention span larger than 5 minutes, but I couldn't make my self to listen to this lonesome speech, even on 3rd try. There was simply too many empty words and sentences, before what he really wanted to say. 

 

Could you write down the main messages of this speech. Compress the 1 hour speech to 3 minutes. 

[StreetCowboy]

Just now, Chartist said:

Remain Lies:

 

1. The punishment Budget

2. NHS finances would be undermined

3. David Cameron stating he'd stay on as prime minister and implement A50 immediately if leave won

4. Families would be £4300 worse off if we voted leave

5. Brexit would destroy western civilisation as we know it

"As a historian I fear Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also Western political civilization in its entirety," Donal Tusk 

6. Peace at risk 

7. Britain would be at the back of the queue for a US trade deal

 

You'll need to provide me with a reference for 3; the rest seem to be true.

 

The Tory party saw fit to appoint a prime minister who was committed to Brexit, and she seems to be doing a great job,

 

[sjaak327]

Just now, StreetCowboy said:

You'll need to provide me with a reference for 3; the rest seem to be true.

 

The Tory party saw fit to appoint a prime minister who was committed to Brexit, and she seems to be doing a great job,

 

! she has an impossible task. What do these people believe ? That the UK would be getting any slack from the EU. Logic such as simple to understand concept. 

[anon676545345]

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

You'll need to provide me with a reference for 3; the rest seem to be true.

 

The Tory party saw fit to appoint a prime minister who was committed to Brexit, and she seems to be doing a great job,

 

Here

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-david-cameron-resign-step-down-boris-johnson-brexit-stay-as-prime-minister-result-poll-a7088811.html

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Chartist said:

Remain Lies:

 

1. The punishment Budget

2. NHS finances would be undermined

3. David Cameron stating he'd stay on as prime minister and implement A50 immediately if leave won

4. Families would be £4300 worse off if we voted leave

5. Brexit would destroy western civilisation as we know it

"As a historian I fear Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also Western political civilization in its entirety," Donal Tusk 

6. Peace at risk 

7. Britain would be at the back of the queue for a US trade deal

 

Vague, vague, vague, mixed with a bit of truth and a lot of lies. 

 

Propaganda at it's best.

 

Germans had their propaganda minister, whose task was to cause insecurity in UK. Now we are seeing the same. This time it's the Russians, who wish to cause insecurity in UK. 

 

One might be eager to follow these folks and repeat their message to others. Another person might think, it's time to put a stop to this abuse of power of people. 

 

 

[anon676545345]

23 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Well, I have heard the remainers telling stories that will undoubetely be true, the economic effects of brexit are already being felt, and you haven't even really left yet.

 

 

 

What are these economic effects of which you speak? Can you provide evidence? In the real world actual data says the economy has grown since we voted to leave, unemployment is down and wages have risen.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/articles/whatschangedsincethebrexitvote/2017-06-23

[vinny41]

Leave Lies? Remainers Need To Look In The Mirror

The UK gives the EU a gross contribution of £350 million a week. This is not a lie, and it is an amount which could be spent on the NHS if the UK Government so wished. These are usually touted as lies, but this stems from 'Remain' campaigners being unable to tell the difference between the words 'gross' and 'net' as well as the difference between the words 'could' and 'will'.

 Remainers did suggest there would be an immediate Brexit recession. No recession to date

3 million people in the UK will lose their jobs was the fictitious figure banded about. However, in July the claimant count fell by 8,600 to 763,600, despite an expected rise of 9,500. Another lie.

"A dangerous fantasy" is how Nick Clegg described Nigel Farage's claim of EU plans to create an army. Barely three months on from the Referendum, Juncker has proposed an EU Army. I'm looking forward to Nick Clegg's next apology video like the one he made after his last whopper.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/matthew-ellery/leave-lies-remainers-need_b_12191462.html

[sjaak327]

Just now, Chartist said:

 

What are these economic effects of which you speak? Can you provide evidence? In the real world actual data says the economy has grown since we voted to leave, unemployment is down and wages have risen.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/articles/whatschangedsincethebrexitvote/2017-06-23

The economies of countries the world over are growing, France and India will overtake the UK next year. Again, you haven't even left yet. 

[anon676545345]

1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

The economies of countries the world over are growing, France and India will overtake the UK next year. Again, you haven't even left yet. 

 

Obviously India is a huge country with a massive population of 1,358,137,719 of course it will eclipse the UK's economy, why would you think otherwise you biggot. As for France their GDP per capita is $42,568 compared to the UK's $42,514 and both have the same rate of inflation at 2.3% so technically they're marginally ahead of us already, doubt it'll stay that way with the current state of politics in France though. 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

The economies of countries the world over are growing, France and India will overtake the UK next year. Again, you haven't even left yet. 

It will be interesting to see who the British low life media will blame of all the mayhem, when the UK has left the EU.

 

I guess, they'll still be blaming 'foreign forces', like Thailand does occasionally.

 

Who would believe their stories is another matter. For sure the people in EU don't, but will the people in UK keep on thinking so? Perhaps?

[sjaak327]

1 minute ago, Chartist said:

 

Obviously India is a huge country with a massive population of 1,358,137,719 of course it will eclipse the UK's economy, why would you think otherwise you biggot. As for France their GDP per capita is $42,568 compared to the UK's $42,514 and both have the same rate of inflation at 2.3% so technically they're marginally ahead of us already, doubt it'll stay that way with the current state of politics in France though. 

Bigot ? I am merely stating facts. But fact and logic are wasted on you I guess. Tiny UK will loose it's access to the huge internal European market, it will have to re-negotiate trade deals, but now in a much weaker position. Still you believe it will all be fine. Yes it most certainly will be, it just cost you a lot more money, that is a certainty. Logic cannot be defeated.

 

Again, good luck, your insignificant little island right in the Atlantic is going to need it, that much is absolutely certain. 

[sjaak327]

14 minutes ago, oilinki said:

It will be interesting to see who the British low life media will blame of all the mayhem, when the UK has left the EU.

 

I guess, they'll still be blaming 'foreign forces', like Thailand does occasionally.

 

Who would believe their stories is another matter. For sure the people in EU don't, but will the people in UK keep on thinking so? Perhaps?

There are many people in the UK that see the brexit for what it really is, a major blunder. Too bad they are in the same box as the people voting to leave. I wonder what would happen if they would do another referendum. I personally think it would not lead to a tiny difference in leave/remain, and I believe the vote would be a remain. 

 

In any case, the way I see it, the UK has only one choice, leave without a deal, as the terms will not get any better. Brussels isn't stupid.

[anon676545345]

1 minute ago, sjaak327 said:

Bigot ? I am merely stating facts. But fact and logic are wasted on you I guess. Tiny UK will loose it's access to the huge internal European market, it will have to re-negotiate trade deals, but now in a much weaker position. Still you believe it will all be fine. Yes it most certainly will be, it just cost you a lot more money, that is a certainty. Logic cannot be defeated.

 

Again, good luck, your insignificant little island right in the Atlantic is going to need it, that much is absolutely certain. 

 

You're not stating facts your expressing your emotional, unfounded and unsupported opinion there is a massive difference between that and fact. I've actually provided links proving your previous statements to be false yet still you claim to be stating facts, you're deluded. 

 

Our tiny little Island is the 9th largest global exporter and 9th largest country by GDP we're doing all right thanks. We'll be doing a lot better when we're not shackled to the failing, unaccountable, bureaucratic neoliberal nightmare that is the EU.

[nontabury]

55 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

 

 

The Tory party saw fit to appoint a prime minister who was committed to Brexit, and she seems to be doing a great job,

 

 

  She’s a committed Remainer, as simple as that. Though I do agree with you that she’s doing a great job in going against the Democratic vote of the British people, in trying to keep us in this so called Union. Although being a proven liar, it comes natural to her.

However I will be very surprised if the demands of the people,are not implemented, as the consequences of the alternative will be far reaching.

[sjaak327]

12 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

You're not stating facts your expressing your emotional, unfounded and unsupported opinion there is a massive difference between that and fact. I've actually provided links proving your previous statements to be false yet still you claim to be stating facts, you're deluded. 

 

Our tiny little Island is the 9th largest global exporter and 9th largest country by GDP we're doing all right thanks. We'll be doing a lot better when we're not shackled to the failing, unaccountable, bureaucratic neoliberal nightmare that is the EU.

I have no emotion whatsoever, Furthermore what link exactly did prove my previous statements were false ? Again, economies the world over are growing, fact is, the economy of France is quite evidently growing faster than that of the UK. That is a fact, no matter which links you might provide. 

 

In any case, your tiny little Island was the 7th largest economy of the world by GDP, and now dropped two places. The pound is not what it used to be, and again, you haven't left yet. 

 

All I can say is that I am convinced you will not be doing a lot better once you aren't shackled to the EU. Only time will tell who is right, logic indicates it won't be you.

It's all about numbers and volume. Fine, you are not prepared to pay that price anymore, then  you will have to accept your negotiation position has considerably weakened. 

 

Oh and spare me the neoliberal hogwash, you couldn't be further from the truth. It's all about the money, there is little or no ideal, 

Edited January 5, 2019 by sjaak327

[nontabury]

32 minutes ago, oilinki said:

It will be interesting to see who the British low life media will blame of all the mayhem, when the UK has left the EU.

 

I guess, they'll still be blaming 'foreign forces', like Thailand does occasionally.

 

Who would believe their stories is another matter. For sure the people in EU don't, but will the people in UK keep on thinking so? Perhaps?

So says one none Brit who supports our continued membership of this so called Union, in reply to another none Brit, who surprisingly, would prefer  for us to continue to make our charitable contributions to Brussels.

[sjaak327]

5 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So says one none Brit who supports our continued membership of this so called Union, in reply to another none Brit, who surprisingly, would prefer  for us to continue to make our charitable contributions to Brussels.

In case you are referring to me, I would like you to leave as soon as possible, prerferably with the no deal option. You want to leave, then just do that and stop whinging. Whether or not the UK contributes to the EU has no bearing whatsoever on me. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by sjaak327

[nontabury]

36 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Bigot ? I am merely stating facts. But fact and logic are wasted on you I guess. Tiny UK will loose it's access to the huge internal European market, it will have to re-negotiate trade deals, but now in a much weaker position. Still you believe it will all be fine. Yes it most certainly will be, it just cost you a lot more money, that is a certainty. Logic cannot be defeated.

 

Again, good luck, your insignificant little island right in the Atlantic is going to need it, that much is absolutely certain. 

You seem a very angry person, thankfully more and more Europeans are now starting to question the wisdom of their countries membership of this so called Union. I can quite easily imagine, you being one of those very same Bureaucrats, worried at the thought of your gravy train being parked on a disused siding.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

There are many people in the UK that see the brexit for what it really is, a major blunder. Too bad they are in the same box as the people voting to leave. I wonder what would happen if they would do another referendum. I personally think it would not lead to a tiny difference in leave/remain, and I believe the vote would be a remain. 

 

In any case, the way I see it, the UK has only one choice, leave without a deal, as the terms will not get any better. Brussels isn't stupid.

I, as an European, have seen quite enough. I suppose my fellow countrymen have seen the same. 

 

It's good and ok to protest against things which are wrong. However it's not cool to put the blame on others, while withdrawing one's personal responsibilities. 

 

That's how UK is now seen by the many of us. 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Guest

[anon676545345]

2 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

In case you are referring to me, I would like you to leave as soon as posisble, prerferably with the no deal option. You want to leave, then just do that and stop whinging. Whether or not the UK contributes to the EU has no bearing whatsoever on me. 

 

Leavers aren't whinging we want to leave with no deal, a deal wasn't on the ballot paper it was leave or remain and leave clearly won. The ones doing the whinging are the remainer scum who are trying every underhanded trick possible to undermine the democratic decision of the majority of the UK electorate. Without their scumbaggery we'd already be out, however the prime minister is a remainer and is trying to force through a crappy deal that keeps us in the EU in all but name.

[sjaak327]

Just now, nontabury said:

You seem a very angry person, thankfully more and more Europeans are now starting to question the wisdom of their countries membership of this so called Union. I can quite easily imagine, you being one of those very same Bureaucrats, worried at the thought of your gravy train being parked on a disused siding.

What makes you think that, a few hours ago I already stated I find it highly amusing. Shooting in your own foot Always is. 

 

At least I have the decency to wish you Brits good luck, as again, you are going to need it. Tata

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You seem a very angry person, thankfully more and more Europeans are now starting to question the wisdom of their countries membership of this so called Union. I can quite easily imagine, you being one of those very same Bureaucrats, worried at the thought of your gravy train being parked on a disused siding.

Stating facts is now deemed as being angry? No, that's not the case.

 

More and more Europeans are in fact seeing the real benefits of EU. Something we didn't even saw earlier. For this we can actually thank Brexit. 

 

Europe is now a lot stronger and a lot more united as we all finally figured out how much stronger we are together, rather than being alone. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Leavers aren't whinging we want to leave with no deal, a deal wasn't on the ballot paper it was leave or remain and leave clearly won. The ones doing the whinging are the remainer scum who are trying every underhanded trick possible to undermine the democratic decision of the majority of the UK electorate. Without their scumbaggery we'd already be out, however the prime minister is a remainer and is trying to force through a crappy deal that keeps us in the EU in all but name.

To be honest. Nobody really, still, cares what you think. 

 

Not now, nor tomorrow. You are marginal folks with your own grumpy thoughts.

 

Nobody really cares. We all have had our 5% of village nutters, whose voices were not heard. Now we have listened to their, your, voices, and it's still a good thing to ignore what you say. 

 

 

[SheungWan]

12 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Leavers aren't whinging we want to leave with no deal, a deal wasn't on the ballot paper it was leave or remain and leave clearly won. The ones doing the whinging are the remainer scum who are trying every underhanded trick possible to undermine the democratic decision of the majority of the UK electorate. Without their scumbaggery we'd already be out, however the prime minister is a remainer and is trying to force through a crappy deal that keeps us in the EU in all but name.

Scum spam.

[sjaak327]

20 minutes ago, Chartist said:

 

Leavers aren't whinging we want to leave with no deal, a deal wasn't on the ballot paper it was leave or remain and leave clearly won. The ones doing the whinging are the remainer scum who are trying every underhanded trick possible to undermine the democratic decision of the majority of the UK electorate. Without their scumbaggery we'd already be out, however the prime minister is a remainer and is trying to force through a crappy deal that keeps us in the EU in all but name.

May I remind you that the margin of victory for the leave camp was less than 2% ? May I also remind you that the UK isn't just England, and that Scotland and Nothern Ireland actually voted to remain (in Scotland even as high as 62% versus just 38% for leave). 

 

What May is doing is damage control, you can't just leave like a spoiled child of course, you made commitments, and those commitments don't just magically disappear when you throw a tantrum. Now what May is trying to do is to cut a deal, so the effects of the brexit (which to the best of my knowledge is undisputed) will be lessened. Now you either accept that deal, or leave without the deal, either way re-negotiation is absolutely futile. 

 

By the way, referring to people that might disagree with you as scum is neither respectful or wise. Certainly with the tiny margin we are talking about. In my view, that referendum should have a clear defined minimum margin. And less than 2% isn't a clear margin for such a far reaching decision. End of story. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by sjaak327

[anon676545345]

23 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

May I remind you that the margin of victory for the leave camp was less than 2% ? May I also remind you that the UK isn't just England, and that Scotland and Nothern Ireland actually voted to remain (in Scotland even as high as 62% versus just 38% for leave). 

 

What May is doing is damage control, you can't just leave like a spoiled child of course, you made commitments, and those commitments don't just magically disappear when you throw a tantrum. Now what May is trying to do is to cut a deal, so the effects of the brexit (which to the best of my knowledge is undisputed) will be lessened. Now you either accept that deal, or leave without the deal, either way re-negotiation is absolutely futile. 

 

By the way, referring to people that might disagree with you as scum is neither respectful or wise. Certainly with the tiny margin we are talking about. In my view, that referendum should have a clear defined minimum margin. And less than 2% isn't a clear margin for such a far reaching decision. End of story. 

 

 

 

Leave won by 3.78% or 1,269,501 votes in the highest ever electoral turnout doesn't matter how you try to word it substantially more people voted to leave than remain. As the UK voted as a whole it doesn't matter that Scotland and NI voted to remain the result is the same.