New partnership bill ‘does not give everybody equal rights’

[webfact]

New partnership bill ‘does not give everybody equal rights’

By Pratch Rujivanarom 
The Nation

 

PARTY forrights An LGBTQI group yesterday marks the 10th anniversary of LGBT Day at Chamchuri Square in the capital to promote gender rights and equality in Thailand. Photo Prasert Thepsri

 

LGBTQI activists call on govt to recognise every citizen’s right to create a family
 

BOTH THE Civil Code’s marriage law and the new Life Partnership Bill are in violation of the Constitution’s gender-equality principle, gender-diversity campaigners asserted as they pressed for full marriage equality rather than a two-tier approach that continues to stigmatise minorities.

 

The Life Partnership Bill will only be acceptable if this bill adheres to the marriage principle and secures rights and benefits for LGBTQI (lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, queer and intersex) married couples that are the same as for straight couples, Kittinan Thammatath, director of Rainbow Sky Association of Thailand, insisted.

 

Kittinan and others yesterday addressed a seminar at Chulalongkorn University, where they discussed people’s rights to marriage equality and to creating a gender-diverse family.

 

“Since every Thai citizen is protected from discrimination and gender equality is protected by the current Constitution, it is our constitutional right to have marriage equality and be able to create a family of our own, regardless of gender. Every legally married couple should receive similar rights and benefits from the authorities,” Kittinan said.

 

The opposite is now the case, he said, as many laws, and especially the current version of the Life Partnership Bill, diminished the rights of LGBTQI couples. These laws do not provide the same level of rights protection and legal benefits to LGBTQI couples, as are enjoyed by heterosexual married couples.

 

“As of now, it is still against the Civil Code for a same-sex couple to legally marry and register their marriage certification,” he noted. “This is because legal marriage under the current law is restricted to straight couples only.”

 

The current version of the Life Partnership Bill, now undergoing revision at the instruction of the Cabinet, has failed to meet its original intent to promote equal rights for every population group to marry, he said.

 

 

“Many fundamental rights and benefits of being married, such as the right to have their own child by surrogacy or adoption, right to get social welfare and benefits from the marriage, or even the right to make medical decisions for the spouse and manage the deceased partner’s body are not given to same-sex couples in this law,” Kittinan said.

 

Therefore, he said, lawmakers still have work to do to provide rights and benefits to LGBTQI couples that are the same as those given to straight married couples under the Life Partnership Bill.

 

If true equality is not ensured, LGBTQI rights groups will consider pursuing the option of a Civil Code amendment that allow two people to marry regardless of their gender.

 

The groups will also consider filing a lawsuit at the Constitutional Court to testify that the current Civil Code marriage law violates the gender equality principle, which is protected by the Constitution.

 

 

Thongrob Rodsawat, prominent gender diversity and LGBTQI rights campaigner, backed Kittinan’s position. He insisted that the proposed Life Partnership Bill not only restricts the rights of LGBTQI people, but also the rights of heterosexual couples.

 

 

He said the bill is trying to establish civil partnerships as an alternative to the civil union concept instead of marriages.

 

“Civil marriage is another widely accepted type of life partnership in the West, as it requires a less strong partnership and less complicated legal bond compared to marriage. This choice of union is preferred by some couples who do not want to engage in the strong and complicated bond of marriage,” he said.

 

“However, under this law, only same-sex couples are allowed to register their life partnerships, and so limit the rights of straight couples who may prefer to register their partnership rather than get married.”

 

He emphasised that what LGBTIQ rights activists are campaigning for is not same-sex marriage itself, but for marriage equality in which everyone has recognition of their right to build their own type of family.

 

He added that the real problems behind the Life Partnership Bill is the lack of understanding for the issues of gender diversity and gender equality, and the strong conservative stance of the majority of Thai lawmakers. There’s a need for some people to update their mindset and keep up with a constantly shifting society.

 

Nongporn Roongpetchwong, a representative from the government’s Rights and Liberties Protection Department, updated the seminar on the progress of the Life Partnership Bill. It remained in the initial legislative process after the Cabinet recently asked her department to revise the bill to ensure it suited Thailand’s society and culture.

 

Nongporn insisted that the department, while working on the revisions, is taking into account all the comments gathered from the public hearings, while also ensuring the key principles in the bill are similar to those of the Civil Code marriage law.

 

The nationwide public hearings found very strong support for a marriage-equality bill.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30359548

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-11-30

 

[meinphuket]

Spouse's 'Right to apply for Thai nationality' it doesn't specify gender, but reality is that it only applies to foreign women, nt to a male spouse.

[zzidenn]

At least people are fighting for their rights for a change!

[OneMoreFarang]

Same sex couples and straight couples are not the same. Why should they be treated in the same way?

Same sex couples can't have children and it's good like that. They should also not be allowed to adopt children or get them any other way.

 

Children should have a male father and a female mother. That's nature. Don't fight nature!

 

[NoshowJones]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Same sex couples and straight couples are not the same. Why should they be treated in the same way?

Same sex couples can't have children and it's good like that. They should also not be allowed to adopt children or get them any other way.

 

Children should have a male father and a female mother. That's nature. Don't fight nature!

 

You have sure got that right, no same sex couple should be allowed to adopt children, as the children grow up, they may be happy and well cared for, but their heads will be all over the place.

I have nothing against homosexuals as long as they keep their goings on private and behind closed doors, but they must be kept away from bringing up children.

[rkidlad]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Same sex couples and straight couples are not the same. Why should they be treated in the same way?

Same sex couples can't have children and it's good like that. They should also not be allowed to adopt children or get them any other way.

 

Children should have a male father and a female mother. That's nature. Don't fight nature!

 

I know a gay couple who are seemingly in a very loving marriage. I know a few straight couples who are most definitely in loveless marriages. These couples most definitely aren't the same. 

 

You do know there are single parents out there? Should they be made to relinquish their kids to a heterosexual couple wanting to adopt? What with it being nature and all. 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

20 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

I know a gay couple who are seemingly in a very loving marriage. I know a few straight couples who are most definitely in loveless marriages. These couples most definitely aren't the same. 

 

You do know there are single parents out there? Should they be made to relinquish their kids to a heterosexual couple wanting to adopt? What with it being nature and all. 

I think there are optimal situations, not perfect situations and bad situations.

If a child is forced to change from optimal to not perfect I guess we have to accept this.

But why should we accept to knowingly put a child in a bad situation?

There are enough people on this planet. We really don't need more kids who grow in mentally challenging situations.

[Jingthing]

News flash. Lesbians can have their own children and often do. They also often bring children into new relationships just like straight women. Homophobes act like gay people aren't human. Of course gay people deserve the very same civil rights. Duh.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rkidlad]

17 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I think there are optimal situations, not perfect situations and bad situations.

If a child is forced to change from optimal to not perfect I guess we have to accept this.

But why should we accept to knowingly put a child in a bad situation?

There are enough people on this planet. We really don't need more kids who grow in mentally challenging situations.

So you have links to stats that show evidence where children being raised by same-sex couples are at a disadvantage? 

[OneMoreFarang]

7 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

So you have links to stats that show evidence where children being raised by same-sex couples are at a disadvantage? 

No, but I have experience when I was a child how gay people were treated. Not good!

If one of my classmates would have told us he or she has two mothers or two fathers I am pretty sure we would have taunted the kid everyday with that. And I am sure not in a nice way.

Now you might say it's bad for all the other kids to act like that and you would be right. But I am sure it still happens, and probably a lot.

A kid from a gay couple will grow up in an unfriendly environment. And there is little the parents can do about that.

So the kid will have to suffer because of the gay parents.

Is that what should happen to an innocent child? I don't think so.

[OneMoreFarang]

24 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

News flash. Lesbians can have their own children and often do. They also often bring children into new relationships just like straight women. Homophobes act like gay people aren't human. Of course gay people deserve the very same civil rights. Duh.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

It must be existing to grow up like that...

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It must be existing to grow up like that...

 

 

There are several options and possibilities including bringing existing children into a relationship. Obviously, with women there are easier options. 

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Same sex couples and straight couples are not the same. Why should they be treated in the same way?

Same sex couples can't have children and it's good like that. They should also not be allowed to adopt children or get them any other way.

 

Children should have a male father and a female mother. That's nature. Don't fight nature!

 

Disagree with every single point you make. 

[rkidlad]

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

No, but I have experience when I was a child how gay people were treated. Not good!

If one of my classmates would have told us he or she has two mothers or two fathers I am pretty sure we would have taunted the kid everyday with that. And I am sure not in a nice way.

Now you might say it's bad for all the other kids to act like that and you would be right. But I am sure it still happens, and probably a lot.

A kid from a gay couple will grow up in an unfriendly environment. And there is little the parents can do about that.

So the kid will have to suffer because of the gay parents.

Is that what should happen to an innocent child? I don't think so.

The gay couple and the kid aren't the problem, then. It's the uneducated and angry people around them. 

 

This is why education is so important. 

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, possum1931 said:

You have sure got that right, no same sex couple should be allowed to adopt children, as the children grow up, they may be happy and well cared for, but their heads will be all over the place.

I have nothing against homosexuals as long as they keep their goings on private and behind closed doors, but they must be kept away from bringing up children.

Yeah, cause every kid ever brought up by heterosexual couples turned out so well, with no exceptions. (Sarcasm alert)

 

As long as children are raised in a loving and caring environment, then the gender and sexual orientation of the parents is irrelevant. 

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

The gay couple and the kid aren't the problem, then. It's the uneducated and angry people around them. 

This is why education is so important. 

In principle I agree with you.

The problem is that are so many of these uneducated and angry people. You can try to ignore them but they won't go away.

We can dream about a perfect world but that's all it is, a dream.

[rkidlad]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In principle I agree with you.

The problem is that are so many of these uneducated and angry people. You can try to ignore them but they won't go away.

We can dream about a perfect world but that's all it is, a dream.

But just because there are other people who are uneducated and intolerant out there, doesn't mean you have to be. You've gone off a tangent about how kids raised by gay couples are by default disadvantaged, to they're only disadvantaged cos they get bullied by their peers, to "**** it", there's no hope 'cos too many people are bigoted so just accept it. 

 

Have you not noticed society grow and develop over the years? 

[OneMoreFarang]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Your dream appears to be caving in to bigots. That's weak. 

It's reality!

We can all dream as much as we want. And our dreams might be wonderful.

But sometimes we have to face the real world. And if we pretend it's perfect like in our dreams then likely we will get hurt.

And that is obviously also true for children which are forced into a reality they didn't chose.

[kevvy]

40 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

No, but I have experience when I was a child how gay people were treated. Not good!

If one of my classmates would have told us he or she has two mothers or two fathers I am pretty sure we would have taunted the kid everyday with that. And I am sure not in a nice way.

Now you might say it's bad for all the other kids to act like that and you would be right. But I am sure it still happens, and probably a lot.

A kid from a gay couple will grow up in an unfriendly environment. And there is little the parents can do about that.

So the kid will have to suffer because of the gay parents.

Is that what should happen to an innocent child? I don't think so.

I grew up with just a father , I got taunted every day , so what is the difference.?I was an innocent child and I suffered . This is the 20th century , what century are you from 

[OneMoreFarang]

6 hours ago, rkidlad said:

But just because there are other people who are uneducated and intolerant out there, doesn't mean you have to be. You've gone off a tangent about how kids raised by gay couples are by default disadvantaged, to they're only disadvantaged cos they get bullied by their peers, to "*** it", there's no hope 'cos too many people are bigoted so just accept it. 

 

Have you not noticed society grow and develop over the years? 

Yes, I noticed. Now gay couples are more and more accepted in more and more places in this world. That's good news.

I think the question is if now is the time to look that this acceptance gets better and better. Maybe in 20 years gay couples are accepted all over the world. And maybe then it's time to think about the next steps.

I think it does not make sense to force something on people if large majorities don't like it.

Some things take generations to change. We can observe this all over the world with many topics. I think we should accept this reality - even if things take longer than we want.

[OneMoreFarang]

5 minutes ago, kevvy said:

I grew up with just a father , I got taunted every day , so what is the difference.?I was an innocent child and I suffered . This is the 20th century , what century are you from 

Did you like it to be taunted? How much more do you think you would have been taunted with two fathers who pick you up hand in hand at the school gates? Would you have liked that?

I am living in the same century like you, here and now. And I have to admit I don't see all those open minded people who love gays like everybody else. There might be a few of them out there but certainly it's not the majority.

[rkidlad]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes, I noticed. Now gay couples are more and more accepted in more and more places in this world. That's good news.

I think the question is if now is the time to look that this acceptance gets better and better. Maybe in 20 years gay couples are accepted all over the world. And maybe then it's time to think about the next steps.

I think it does not make sense to force something on people if large majorities don't like it.

Some things take generations to change. We can observe this all over the world with many topics. I think we should accept this reality - even if things take longer than we want.

How is a same-sex couple adopting a kid forcing anything on anyone? Are gay couples telling their adopted kids to ride their bike on your lawn or to steal your mail, etc? No. Any bad parents (straight or gay) or bad children are bad for many different reasons. It has nothing to do with their sexual preference or the sexual preference of their parents. 

 

 

[rkidlad]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If I'd have been homosexual, I'd have kept at least half my house in the UK divorce.

(if not all as it was only me that paid for it)

As for hate, everyone always hates me, I'm used to it and don't really care.

Clearly you do care. If enough people seemingly hate you, maybe you're the problem and not them? 

[kevvy]

Your augment is about same sex marriage having children and heterosexuals are ok .I just pointed out that heterosexual children get treated  just as bad .. If there is a problem in the family .. No I did not like being taunted just as a same sex marriage children would not like it .I imagine you were one of the bullies doing the taunting as the comments you are making

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

How is a same-sex couple adopting a kid forcing anything on anyone?  

They force "their" kid to grow up in a unwelcome environment.

The kid will suffer because of all those people out there who will talk bad about the parents. And the kid will suffer because of that. And I guess in some areas you can call yourself lucky if it's only bad talk. I am sure some people in some areas get beaten up just because of that.

Do you think it's fair to put a child into such a hostile environment?

[rkidlad]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

They force "their" kid to grow up in a unwelcome environment.

The kid will suffer because of all those people out there who will talk bad about the parents. And the kid will suffer because of that. And I guess in some areas you can call yourself lucky if it's only bad talk. I am sure some people in some areas get beaten up just because of that.

Do you think it's fair to put a child into such a hostile environment?

That would really depend on the area you're talking about. Being in Bangkok, I really can't see kids being raised by same-sex couples having that of an unwelcome environment. There's more chance they'd suffer being teasing and abused for being poorer or darker skinned. 

[OneMoreFarang]

22 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

That would really depend on the area you're talking about. Being in Bangkok, I really can't see kids being raised by same-sex couples having that of an unwelcome environment. There's more chance they'd suffer being teasing and abused for being poorer or darker skinned. 

That is a "wonderful" example.

I think we agree that there are still lots of people out there (the majority in Thailand?) who care about skin color. They even care about shades of brown and not so brown. And millions of people buy whitening products.

With that kind of "knowledge" and attitude how can anybody expect more freedom for more "exotic" cases?

[Ulic]

Not sure straight couples have all the rights they are claiming. I do agree that gay couples should have the right to enjoy the misery of divorce, including the division of assets acquired during the marriage, financial support, and child custody. The bad along with the good. 

[khunken]

2 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

That is a "wonderful" example.

I think we agree that there are still lots of people out there (the majority in Thailand?) who care about skin color. They even care about shades of brown and not so brown. And millions of people buy whitening products.

With that kind of "knowledge" and attitude how can anybody expect more freedom for more "exotic" cases?

Normally I like your posts but you've revealed a much more murky side in this thread. You started off with 'don't fight nature' - arrogant & bigoted. Subsequently you've modified that to the discrimination & bullying argument which has been fully answered by other posters.

No hetero person or couple is being targeted by allowing (freedom) for different (not 'exotic') people to have the same rights. This is a progressive and developing activity that is becomming more & more acceptable in western Europe and also in Thailand. I am a straight man, proud of my country having recognised LGBT+ rights, including marriage & the right to adopt or have (in the case of females) kids.

[AGareth2]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Having the right to have children is a basic human right.

sadly some people can't have children

so no it is not a basic human right