Why Thai banks are trying to charge you for cash at ATMs and branches

[sjaak327]

10 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I apologize. Every country I have been to charges high fees when drawing money at an ATM using a foreign ATM card. You seem to indicate this this would be free in Europe, I do not believe that to be true.

The most banks are publicly held, and as such their P & L is public record.

Personally, I think the banks should be able to charge whatever they want regardless of what their margin is, as long as there is competition in the market.
 

 

I never said it was free in Europe. However in the Euro zone, there are no fees for ATM cards issued by a bank in the euro zone. Which means, I can take my Dutch ATM card, and get money in Paris, using a completely different bank, free of any bank fees. 

 

Not every country charges high fees when drawing money at an ATM using a foreign ATM card. Malaysia for instance, charges nothing or a very small fee (a few ringit). Hong Kong does the same, In Vietnam the fees are a bit higher but do not exceed 100 baht, same for Lao. 

 

If people think 220 baht is a fair fee for just an ATM transaction, I think there is no need to discuss this any further. I support the fact that foreign ATM cards should incur a reasonable fee. 220 baht is not reasonable. There would be no complaint if the fee was closer to fair and reasonable. 

 

As to your last remark, I agree ! The trouble is, if the BOT approves this, ALL Thai banks will follow suit. Just as they did with the foreign atm fee. 

Edit: on second thoughts, I disagree, banks should not charge people for accessing their own money, providing they use that bank's infrastructure. That's why I pay the quarterly fee. 

[mogandave]

I do not have a credit card for use in Thailand and I don't use phones for money. I use cash or online banking, which I use quite a lot.
There is no simple solution that suits everyone.

Well, actually there is a simple solution, competition in the banking sector.

I could get by with online banking and cash, but I like the benefits I get using a card.

I love the Rabbit card too...

[mogandave]

I do not have a credit card for use in Thailand and I don't use phones for money. I use cash or online banking, which I use quite a lot.

There is no simple solution that suits everyone.

 

Doh!!!

[mogandave]

I never said it was free in Europe. However in the Euro zone, there are no fees for ATM cards issued by a bank in the euro zone. Which means, I can take my Dutch ATM card, and get money in Paris, using a completely different bank, free of any bank fees. 
 
Not every country charges high fees when drawing money at an ATM using a foreign ATM card. Malaysia for instance, charges nothing or a very small fee (a few ringit). Hong Kong does the same, In Vietnam the fees are a bit higher but do not exceed 100 baht, same for Lao. 
 
If people think 220 baht is a fair fee for just an ATM transaction, I think there is no need to discuss this any further. I support the fact that foreign ATM cards should incur a reasonable fee. 220 baht is not reasonable. There would be no complaint if the fee was closer to fair and reasonable. 
 
As to your last remark, I agree ! The trouble is, if the BOT approves this, ALL Thai banks will follow suit. Just as they did with the foreign atm fee. 
Edit: on second thoughts, I disagree, banks should not charge people for accessing their own money, providing they use that bank's infrastructure. That's why I pay the quarterly fee. 

I would liken the Euro Zone to the US, regardless of what state I’m in, my ATM is free and my phone costs the same.

When I used my US ATM card in Malaysia, the fee was around US$8.00. Perhaps ASEAN bank cards are cheaper, never tried my Thai ATM.

I agree that people should not have to pay to have access to their own money, BUT, assuming we have to pay more, would rather see a per-use fee, than a high quarterly fee.

If the BOT approves charges, different banks will handle adding fees differently, and they will all likely offer a variety of accounts to attract different customers.

[sjaak327]

5 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

I would liken the Euro Zone to the US, regardless of what state I’m in, my ATM is free and my phone costs the same.

When I used my US ATM card in Malaysia, the fee was around US$8.00. Perhaps ASEAN bank cards are cheaper, never tried my Thai ATM.

I agree that people should not have to pay to have access to their own money, BUT, assuming we have to pay more, would rather see a per-use fee, than a high quarterly fee.

If the BOT approves charges, different banks will handle adding fees differently, and they will all likely offer a variety of accounts to attract different customers.

 

Yes, of course the US IS a single country, so not surprised you would enjoy free ATM withdrawal country wide, and just as in the Euro zone, I am guessing even across banks. In Thailand, inter bank atm fees do exist, and even cross province atm fees using your own bank atm infrastruture which to me sound unbelieveable. It shouldn't make any difference if I use a K-bank ATM in Bangkok or in say Udon Thani.

 

I have been to Malaysia three times, and never did I pay a fee incurred by the malaysian bank, higher than a few ringgit. In fact, last time, most banks did not incur any fee. And some ATM's did incur a small fee, something like 4 ringgit if memory serves me right, nowhere near the 220 baht one pays in Thailand.

 

As to the banks handling fees differently, I hope so, because if they all do it, there will be no competition. If the foreign ATM fees is anything to go by, I think you will find that all Thai banks will do the same. But maybe as the target is now domestic customers, they will indeed compete. 

 

 

[mogandave]

Yes, of course the US IS a single country, so not surprised you would enjoy free ATM withdrawal country wide, and just as in the Euro zone, I am guessing even across banks. In Thailand, inter bank atm fees do exist, and even cross province atm fees using your own bank atm infrastruture which to me sound unbelieveable. It shouldn't make any difference if I use a K-bank ATM in Bangkok or in say Udon Thani.
 
I have been to Malaysia three times, and never did I pay a fee incurred by the malaysian bank, higher than a few ringgit. In fact, last time, most banks did not incur any fee. And some ATM's did incur a small fee, something like 4 ringgit if memory serves me right, nowhere near the 220 baht one pays in Thailand.
 
As to the banks handling fees differently, I hope so, because if they all do it, there will be no competition. If the foreign ATM fees is anything to go by, I think you will find that all Thai banks will do the same. But maybe as the target is now domestic customers, they will indeed compete. 
 
 

Not sure why you think they would all do the same thing, clearly they don’t all do the same thing now.

There is already a big variety of different accounts and fees at the different banks.

[sjaak327]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

Not sure why you think they would all do the same thing, clearly they don’t all do the same thing now.

There is already a big variety of different accounts and fees at the different banks.

 

When it comes to charging ATM fees for foreign ATM cards, they all charge 220 baht, and there is not a single Thai owned bank that does not charge the fees. So it might be that the charging of a fixed ATM fees (even for their own customers) will also be across the board. 

 

 

[mogandave]

When it comes to charging ATM fees for foreign ATM cards, they all charge 220 baht, and there is not a single Thai owned bank that does not charge the fees.

How do you know that?

[sjaak327]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

How do you know that?

 

How do you think ? For a period of time there were just two banks operating in Thailand that did not charge the fee, or charged a lower fee. Both banks (UOB and Citybank) were not Thai owned. 

[mogandave]

How do you think ? For a period of time there were just two banks operating in Thailand that did not charge the fee, or charged a lower fee. Both banks (UOB and Citybank) were not Thai owned. 

 

To be honest, I haven’t an idea how you know.

 

You’ve gotten ripped off using your home country card by every bank in Thailand?

 

 

[sjaak327]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

To be honest, I haven’t an idea how you know.

 

You’ve gotten ripped off using your home country card by every bank in Thailand?

 

 

Me personally ? No, for years I used Citybank, no fees. They started charging the fee about one year ago. Of course the internet enables one to rely on other people's experiences instead of having to try all those Thai banks myself. So now you know how I know. But do prove me wrong, and name one Thai bank that does not charge the 220 bath ATM withdrawal fee. I would be all ears !

[moana]

30 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

When it comes to charging ATM fees for foreign ATM cards, they all charge 220 baht

Personally I don't care much since I get full and immediate ATM fee rebates, but I do know that Bank of China doesn't charge the 220 baht. Not easy to find a branch though.

[sjaak327]

3 minutes ago, moana said:

Personally I don't care much since I get full and immediate ATM fee rebates, but I do know that Bank of China doesn't charge the 220 baht. Not easy to find a branch though.

Ok, that's also not a Thai owned bank, waiting to hear back from mogandave to supply me with a name of a Thai owned bank that does not apply the BOT approved 220 baht. 

For many years I used Singaporean owned Citybank at Asoke to withdraw money with my dutch ATM, no fees, but they started charging around a year ago, the same 220 baht.

 

 

[moana]

2 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Ok, that's also not a Thai owned bank

What's the point of this distinction? Even Krungsri is not a Thai owned bank anymore...

[sjaak327]

2 minutes ago, moana said:

What's the point of this distinction? Even Krungsri is not a Thai owned bank anymore...

The point was that I am claiming that all Thai owned banks charge the 220 baht foreign atm transaction fee, whilst another poster seems to imply that not all thai banks charge this fee.

 

The advantage of a Thai owned bank not charging the fee would be that it's probably easier to find a nearby ATM, as opposed to a foreign owned bank such as the one you referred to.

[anon537687643]

Ok, that's also not a Thai owned bank, waiting to hear back from mogandave to supply me with a name of a Thai owned bank that does not apply the BOT approved 220 baht. 
For many years I used Singaporean owned Citybank at Asoke to withdraw money with my dutch ATM, no fees, but they started charging around a year ago, the same 220 baht.
 
 

He won’t


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[mogandave]

Ok, that's also not a Thai owned bank, waiting to hear back from mogandave to supply me with a name of a Thai owned bank that does not apply the BOT approved 220 baht. 
For many years I used Singaporean owned Citybank at Asoke to withdraw money with my dutch ATM, no fees, but they started charging around a year ago, the same 220 baht.
 
 

Sorry to keep you waiting, I was having dinner at Audrey’s where I got a 10% rebate for using my Thai Citibank Visa. Place is not that great but my wife likes it.

I did not say all the banks charged 220, I just asked how you KNEW that.

Incidentally, I just check my last US ATM transaction at K-bank and the fee (as near as I can tell) was 215.

[mogandave]

Me personally ? No, for years I used Citybank, no fees. They started charging the fee about one year ago. Of course the internet enables one to rely on other people's experiences instead of having to try all those Thai banks myself. So now you know how I know. But do prove me wrong, and name one Thai bank that does not charge the 220 bath ATM withdrawal fee. I would be all ears !

It is surprising that one with your investigative skills is paying quarterly fees for a bank account when they seem to be available most everywhere for free...

(just kidding, if you like your bank you like your bank, and that is worth paying a little extra...)

[mogandave]

No fees please!

[sjaak327]

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

 

It is surprising that one with your investigative skills is paying quarterly fees for a bank account when they seem to be available most everywhere for free...

(just kidding, if you like your bank you like your bank, and that is worth paying a little extra...)

 

They are ? In the Netherlands ? wow ! Do you have any idea what exactly is included in this fee. No wonder you are ok with a small fee, you project your situation on everyone else. OF course I am dead sure you pay your bank too. There is no bank on this planet that does stuff for free. 

 

K-bank charges 220 baht for atm withdrawal, I know because I generally use their atm's with my dutch card. 

 

Now which Thai owned bank does not charge the 220 baht withdrawal fee ? where can I get money fee free ? 

[mogandave]

They are ? In the Netherlands ? wow ! Do you have any idea what exactly is included in this fee. No wonder you are ok with a small fee, you project your situation on everyone else. OF course I am dead sure you pay your bank too. There is no bank on this planet that does stuff for free. 
 
K-bank charges 220 baht for atm withdrawal, I know because I generally use their atm's with my dutch card. 

Sorry, I thought you had a Thai account, no wonder you’re upset. I’d be angry too iff I were getting ripped off at least six times a month paying 220 every time I made a withdrawal.

In any event, the changes to the fee structure in Thailand (apparently) will not really pertain to you after all.

[janclaes47]

13 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

There is no bank on this planet that does stuff for free. 

I notice there are no free bank accounts in the Netherlands, there are though several free ones in Belgium and Germany.

 

If you have an issue with the 220 baht fee for each withdrawal, you could open a Thai bank account and transfer a lump sum every now and then using Transferwise, and then withdraw without any additional fee.

[sjaak327]

Just now, mogandave said:

 

Sorry, I thought you had a Thai account, no wonder you’re upset. I’d be angry too iff I were getting ripped off at least six times a month paying 220 every time I made a withdrawal.

In any event, the changes to the fee structure in Thailand (apparently) will not really pertain to you after all.

 

I am not upset. The 220 baht fee is a fact of life in Thailand, good to see you also agree it is a ripp-off rather than a realistic and fair practice. 

 

Does the fact that the fee structure in Thailand might not pertain to me, excludes me from taking part in a discussion about it ?

 

I most certainly believe that is not the case.

 

Many Thai banks do charge fees already, such as yearly ATM cards fees, again the point of this disussion is, if people already pay fees for services, trying to levy yet another one just for people to access to their money is not fair and warrented.  

 

 

[sjaak327]

3 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

I notice there are no free bank accounts in the Netherlands, there are though several free ones in Belgium and Germany.

 

If you have an issue with the 220 baht fee for each withdrawal, you could open a Thai bank account and transfer a lump sum every now and then using Transferwise, and then withdraw without any additional fee.

Thanks for the tip, I am not that bothered with the fee to be honest. Also, Transferwise does not offer their services for free, allthough a single transfer would probably work out cheaper than paying the 220 baht fee multiple times. 

[mogandave]

I am not upset. The 220 baht fee is a fact of life in Thailand, good to see you also agree it is a ripp-off rather than a realistic and fair practice. 

 

Does the fact that the fee structure in Thailand might not pertain to me, excludes me from taking part in a discussion about it ?

 

I most certainly believe that is not the case.

 

Many Thai banks do charge fees already, such as yearly ATM cards fees, again the point of this disussion is, if people already pay fees for services, trying to levy yet another one just for people to access to their money is not fair and warrented.  

 

 

 

The banks are not going to lose money.

 

Their margins are (generally) public record.

 

If their margins are dropping due to the cost of installing and maintaining ATMs, they are going to get that money back someplace.

 

They will either get it from annual fees, or per ATM transaction.

 

Again, they’re going to get their money either way. If indeed the ATMs are driving the margins down, I think it fair that the people using the ATMs, pay for the ATMs. That’s all.

 

They can be a little frustrating at times, but I like doing business with the banks here.

[sjaak327]

38 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

The banks are not going to lose money.

 

Their margins are (generally) public record.

 

If their margins are dropping due to the cost of installing and maintaining ATMs, they are going to get that money back someplace.

 

They will either get it from annual fees, or per ATM transaction.

 

Again, they’re going to get their money either way. If indeed the ATMs are driving the margins down, I think it fair that the people using the ATMs, pay for the ATMs. That’s all.

 

They can be a little frustrating at times, but I like doing business with the banks here.

Of course, it is not that part we disagree. I doubt that the ATM infrastructure they maintain drive the margins down. Also, why would it be a problem of the customers, maybe the bank should look at other ways to get the margins up, but I do get it, it's easier to drive the price up, especially if BOT is on board. 

[janclaes47]

1 hour ago, sjaak327 said:

Thanks for the tip, I am not that bothered with the fee to be honest. Also, Transferwise does not offer their services for free, allthough a single transfer would probably work out cheaper than paying the 220 baht fee multiple times. 

 

Of course transferwise is not free, but they are not expensive either.

 

My bank in Belgium has no account fees. and free master card and maestro card, as well as free internet banking.

 

[sjaak327]

Just now, janclaes47 said:

 

Of course transferwise is not free, but they are not expensive either.

 

My bank in Belgium has no account fees. and free master card and maestro card, as well as free internet banking.

 

As I said, it will probably be a little bit less expensive getting a Thai account, and using a single big transfer at transferwise. But I doubt the money saved would be more than the odd 5 euros, not willing to go through the trouble. 

 

Just for your information, a standard account in the Netherlands + ATM would cost you about 4 euros per quarter. I pay more, as I have worldwide free ATM withdrawals, credit card, and travel/cancellation Insurance included in the package. 

[janclaes47]

54 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

The banks are not going to lose money.

 

Their margins are (generally) public record.

 

If their margins are dropping due to the cost of installing and maintaining ATMs, they are going to get that money back someplace.

 

They will either get it from annual fees, or per ATM transaction.

 

Again, they’re going to get their money either way. If indeed the ATMs are driving the margins down, I think it fair that the people using the ATMs, pay for the ATMs. That’s all.

 

They can be a little frustrating at times, but I like doing business with the banks here.

I don't know how it is in your country, but in mine my atm and credit card are free of charge.

 

I use whatever atm terminal, again free of charge, even if i would withdraw with a foreign credit card.

 

There are also no account fees or any other fees.

 

Wonder why the banks in my country not all go tits up.

[mogandave]

I don't know how it is in your country, but in mine my atm and credit card are free of charge.
 
I use whatever atm terminal, again free of charge, even if i would withdraw with a foreign credit card.
 
There are also no account fees or any other fees.
 
Wonder why the banks in my country not all go tits up.

Maybe the people in your country are superior to everyone else.