Why Thai banks are trying to charge you for cash at ATMs and branches

[moana]

10 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It is TMB and just checked the account and it is called AllFree.

Many, if not all, banks have an "AllFree" type card now. It is "expensive" though, and definitely overkill for TMB, since in TMB all types of accounts are free to withdraw/deposit nationwide for free (limited to TMB machines/branches though).

[mogandave]

In Thailand? Did you know most credit cards levy huge fees for cash withdrawal. Many businesses levy a 3% surcharge, and many others don't accept them full stop.

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatal

Neither of my US credit cards charge a foreign transaction fee at all, in fact they pay a “cash-back” bonus.

My Thai credit cards both charge an annual fee, but they waive it every year when I call them. They also have point programs to get “free” crap.

Virtually none of the companies I trade with add a 3% surcharge.

Where do you trade?

[mogandave]

Two easy ways:
 

• Switch to TMB. They don't play the province games. Withdraw/deposit anywhere in the country fee free in any TMB ATM/ADM/branch.
• Use Krungsri, but withdraw only using the cardless method (using their app). No fees anywhere in Thailand, and as a bonus you don't even need to pay for a debit card.

Yeah, I have the Krungsri app, and the cardless ATM is great, albeit a little slow. Did not know it was free in other provinces.

Krungsri card-less only works with Krungsri ATMs though, yes?

[moana]

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Krungsri card-less only works with Krungsri ATMs though, yes?

Yep. They're pretty easy to find though. Definitely easier than finding a TMB ATM...

[Snow Leopard]

The OP is not about what is happening now. It's about applying for approval for them to charge you an ATM fee for withdrawing money from your own account at the same bank. 

 

I personally don't agree with charging you to access your own money and i can't stand banks either, Legalised robbery, in my opinion,  I am sure though that the bank looks at this in a different way. As in they have bare the cost of the ATM machine to give you 24-hour access to your account. 

 

I would say that if they bring this in use the ATM the least amount possible and withdraw money across the counter with the teller.  

[Snow Leopard]

The OP is not about what is happening now. It's about applying for approval for them to charge you an ATM fee for withdrawing money from your own account at the same bank. 

 

I personally don't agree with charging you to access your own money and i can't stand banks either, Legalised robbery, in my opinion,  I am sure though that the bank looks at this in a different way. As in they have bare the cost of the ATM machine to give you 24-hour access to your account. 

 

I would say that if they bring this in use the ATM the least amount possible and withdraw money across the counter with the teller.  

[mogandave]

Yep. They're pretty easy to find though. Definitely easier than finding a TMB ATM...

Yeah, I don’t wait until I’m desperate to re-up anyway.

Never understand people with money walking around broke...

[chaihot]

On 12/5/2018 at 3:31 PM, thaikahuna said:

Check around. I know many institutions are enacting policies to refund any and all charges for ATM use wherever in the world it may be. I use a credit union in the US that refunds my ATM fees and there's no foreign transaction fees either.

Which one would that be?

[mogandave]

Which one would that be?

My Fidelity Debit card refunds all ATM fees. Takes a while, but I’ve used it in Thailand, Hong Kong, India, Malaysia, Singapore & Japan and have always gotten a refund.

[chaihot]

7 hours ago, cmsally said:

If ATMs are becoming a burden for the banks then why not try reducing numbers. Banks are paying rental space for ATM machines, exact amount depending on location. I would imagine it has been a nice little earner especially for the shopping malls where there are so many you literally trip over them. My hypothesis is that "mall culture" is not economically sound and that the banks through their branch outlet and ATM space are helping them keep afloat.

This is not something the consumer should be made to pay for.

IMO, it works a different way.  It is not the ATM space that is creating problems, it is the ever increasing physical footprint of banks - competing to have the most number of branches and "nicest" branches.  Does anyone want to venture a guess as to what a branch inside Central Festival costs each month?

 

Thais would prefer to go inside and do everything over the counter, which slows down the entire process.  Banks in Thailand are going about this the wrong way.

[Tweedle dee]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

My Fidelity Debit card refunds all ATM fees. Takes a while, but I’ve used it in Thailand, Hong Kong, India, Malaysia, Singapore & Japan and have always gotten a refund.

 

So ! ring the bell in your local  tonight ???? TD

[chaihot]

3 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

My Fidelity Debit card refunds all ATM fees. Takes a while, but I’ve used it in Thailand, Hong Kong, India, Malaysia, Singapore & Japan and have always gotten a refund.

 

I have this discussion with dozens of people who use Fidelity ... read the contract.  The 1% international transaction fee is built in to your transaction, so you do not see it.  You are refunded for atm fees, but you still pay the 1% fee.  

 

Sources:

https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/fidelity-visa-gold-check-card-no-atm-fee-wordwide-en/

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/fidelity-shift-amex-visa-effect-cardholders/

https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/faqs-atm-debit-card

https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/PDF_Fidelity_Check_Card_Agreement.pdf    (section 2.5.3)

 

 

Schwab is the only major company that does NOT charge the international fee and REFUNDS all ATM fees.

 

[mogandave]

If ATMs are becoming a burden for the banks then why not try reducing numbers. Banks are paying rental space for ATM machines, exact amount depending on location. I would imagine it has been a nice little earner especially for the shopping malls where there are so many you literally trip over them. My hypothesis is that "mall culture" is not economically sound and that the banks through their branch outlet and ATM space are helping them keep afloat.
This is not something the consumer should be made to pay for.

If they’re not charging a fee, how are they nice earners?

Ultimately, one way or another, the consumer pays for everything. I think if only the people using it have to pay for it, it seems fair to me...

[mogandave]

If ATMs are becoming a burden for the banks then why not try reducing numbers. Banks are paying rental space for ATM machines, exact amount depending on location. I would imagine it has been a nice little earner especially for the shopping malls where there are so many you literally trip over them. My hypothesis is that "mall culture" is not economically sound and that the banks through their branch outlet and ATM space are helping them keep afloat.
This is not something the consumer should be made to pay for.

If they’re not charging a fee, how are they nice earners?

Ultimately, one way or another, the consumer pays for everything. I think if only the people using it have to pay for it, it seems fair to me...

[Banana7]

5 minutes ago, chaihot said:

I have this discussion with dozens of people who use Fidelity ... read the contract.  The 1% international transaction fee is built in to your transaction, so you do not see it.  You are refunded for atm fees, but you still pay the 1% fee.  

 

Sources:

https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/fidelity-visa-gold-check-card-no-atm-fee-wordwide-en/

https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/fidelity-shift-amex-visa-effect-cardholders/

https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/faqs-atm-debit-card

https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/PDF_Fidelity_Check_Card_Agreement.pdf    (section 2.5.3)

 

 

Schwab is the only major company that does NOT charge the international fee and REFUNDS all ATM fees.

 

And how is the exchange rate compared to the cash rate at http://siamexchange.co.th/

[balo]

A bit off-topic but I just found out my old bank LH moved from Big C to Terminal 21 . They still offer deposit accounts to foreigners with interest rates up to 2% or more. 

 

LH bank also has a friendly online banking and low fees.  To get this high interest account you need to deposit at least 5000 baht and leave it there , so lets say you deposit 100k , you can withdraw anytime you want , but you need to have 5k minimum on the account. 

 

This is LH bank in Pattaya , different branches will probably not be this friendly towards foreigners. 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

So ! ring the bell in your local  tonight [emoji12] TD

Say what?

[chaihot]

37 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

And how is the exchange rate compared to the cash rate at http://siamexchange.co.th/

Fidelity and Schwab depend on the Visa and MasterCard international rate center.  

 

I have never performed a rate evaluation comparing V/MC to Siamexchange.  But I will go out on a limb, and say that visa (a $299bn company) and Mastercard (a $206bn company) provide better rates than simexchange .... ????

 

Ok, my curiosity got the better of me ... 

 

Test Date:  12/6/18

Visa Exchange rate:  32.71

Mastercard Exchange rate:  32.76

Siam Exchange rate:  32.76 

[mogandave]

I’ve checked the rates with XE when I’ve made withdrawals and they’re always great.

[moana]

1 hour ago, chaihot said:

I have this discussion with dozens of people who use Fidelity

Same here and same debate with Aspiration users (who pay a hidden 1.1%).

 

57 minutes ago, chaihot said:

Visa Exchange rate:  32.71

Mastercard Exchange rate:  32.76

Just note that this is an exception and not the rule. When it comes to USD-THB Visa usually wins. Mastercard usually wins most other pairs though...

[mogandave]

I have this discussion with dozens of people who use Fidelity ... read the contract.  The 1% international transaction fee is built in to your transaction, so you do not see it.  You are refunded for atm fees, but you still pay the 1% fee.  
 
Sources:
https://www.uscreditcardguide.com/fidelity-visa-gold-check-card-no-atm-fee-wordwide-en/
https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/fidelity-shift-amex-visa-effect-cardholders/
https://www.fidelity.com/cash-management/faqs-atm-debit-card
https://www.fidelity.com/bin-public/060_www_fidelity_com/documents/PDF_Fidelity_Check_Card_Agreement.pdf    (section 2.5.3)
 
 
Schwab is the only major company that does NOT charge the international fee and REFUNDS all ATM fees.
 

And I have responded to this 1% issue before as well.

I keep good records, check the XE rate and make note of it on the slip and I while I do not use it a lot, I know with certainty that they have not charged 1% on the withdrawals I have made.

[mogandave]

and you are getting that at a bargain - I have one in the UK, the smallest option available  12"x3"x3" and that sets me back 15,500 a year !!

I got one in the US free for years before WaMu went tits up...

[fforest1]

On 12/5/2018 at 10:21 AM, otherstuff1957 said:

Almost every country in the world is pushing their people toward a 'cashless society'.  They will talk about convenience and safety, but the reality is that banks are looking forward to the time when every transaction has a fee and customers will be shopping around for the bank with the lowest negative interest rate. 

 

????

 

I may sound pessimistic, but I believe that this will happen within the next 10 - 20 years.  You may doubt it now, but we all all like frogs in a slowly heated pot, each additional degree of heat is uncomfortable, but bearable, until one day we realize that the water is boiling.

100% correct...

[moana]

12 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I keep good records, check the XE rate and make note of it on the slip

The XE rate is irrelevant and unattainable by cards, it's the mid-market (interbank) rate.

 

You need to compare against the Visa rate here: https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

 

You will find that you are definitely being charged the 1%. Move to Schwab.

[overherebc]

Why does any bank want to charge you more?

Because they can.

[mogandave]

The XE rate is irrelevant and unattainable by cards, it's the mid-market (interbank) rate.
 
You need to compare against the Visa rate here: https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html
 
You will find that you are definitely being charged the 1%. Move to Schwab.

Well I just checked, and the XE rate is 0.02% better than the visa rate you suggested was more accurate, so I’m not convinced. The Fidelity documentation linked to says they may charge 1%, not that they do charge 1%. I only use the card to get spending money when I travel anyway.


In any event I have my 401k, my brokerage account, my Roth, my wife’s Roth, my son’s Roth, and the account my mother left to my son all with Fidelity so switching to Schwab would be sometime of a PITA.

I know I can do better than Chase for my credit card, but not a lot better and I have a history with Chase.

[sjaak327]

Neither of my US credit cards charge a foreign transaction fee at all, in fact they pay a “cash-back” bonus.

My Thai credit cards both charge an annual fee, but they waive it every year when I call them. They also have point programs to get “free” crap.

Virtually none of the companies I trade with add a 3% surcharge.

Where do you trade?

I do not trade.. I am a normal person... My Dutch credit card takes a 5 euro transaction fee when I use it to withdraw money.

You can have a US credit card all you want, the 3% surcharge levied by many Thai vendors cannot be dodged.

In short, a credit card is great in France, it is far from ideal in Thailand. Which incidentally remains
A cash first t society l. As I said before, you cannot pay for your som tam Lao with a credit card, or a debit card, or the <deleted> bitcoins..

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

[sjaak327]

Neither of my US credit cards charge a foreign transaction fee at all, in fact they pay a “cash-back” bonus.

My Thai credit cards both charge an annual fee, but they waive it every year when I call them. They also have point programs to get “free” crap.

Virtually none of the companies I trade with add a 3% surcharge.

Where do you trade?

I do not trade.. I am a normal person... My Dutch credit card takes a 5 euro transaction fee when I use it to withdraw money.

You can have a US credit card all you want, the 3% surcharge levied by many Thai vendors cannot be dodged.

In short, a credit card is great in France, it is far from ideal in Thailand. Which incidentally remains
A cash first t society l. As I said before, you cannot pay for your som tam Lao with a credit card, or a debit card, or the <deleted> bitcoins..

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

[sjaak327]

Neither of my US credit cards charge a foreign transaction fee at all, in fact they pay a “cash-back” bonus.

My Thai credit cards both charge an annual fee, but they waive it every year when I call them. They also have point programs to get “free” crap.

Virtually none of the companies I trade with add a 3% surcharge.

Where do you trade?

I do not trade.. I am a normal person... My Dutch credit card takes a 5 euro transaction fee when I use it to withdraw money.

You can have a US credit card all you want, the 3% surcharge levied by many Thai vendors cannot be dodged.

In short, a credit card is great in France, it is far from ideal in Thailand. Which incidentally remains
A cash first t society l. As I said before, you cannot pay for your som tam Lao with a credit card, or a debit card, or the <deleted> bitcoins..

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk

[sjaak327]

Neither of my US credit cards charge a foreign transaction fee at all, in fact they pay a “cash-back” bonus.

My Thai credit cards both charge an annual fee, but they waive it every year when I call them. They also have point programs to get “free” crap.

Virtually none of the companies I trade with add a 3% surcharge.

Where do you trade?

I do not trade.. I am a normal person... My Dutch credit card takes a 5 euro transaction fee when I use it to withdraw money.

You can have a US credit card all you want, the 3% surcharge levied by many Thai vendors cannot be dodged.

In short, a credit card is great in France, it is far from ideal in Thailand. Which incidentally remains
A cash first t society l. As I said before, you cannot pay for your som tam Lao with a credit card, or a debit card, or the <deleted> bitcoins..

Sent from my SM-J730F using Tapatalk