Australian pension

[LosLobo]

7 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

So a non homeowner who has $465,500 or less gets the full pension right ?

 

If you put single, no to homeowner and $0 as income and $465,500 in the 2nd site you provided me with earlier, it says you will receive $916.30p/f

In the Deeming Calculator put $161,000 this will get you $172/FN income.

In the Pension Calculator put single non homeowner and $172/FN income with $0 assets.

Answer is $916 pension or full pension.

[totally thaied up]

24 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

That is each you realise, x 2 (each) per fortnight

My wife is not a resident. Not sure if I want to spend the next 25 years back in OZ working that one out?

[totally thaied up]

14 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

In the Deeming Calculator put $161,000 this will get you $172/FN income.

In the Pension Calculator put single non homeowner and $172/FN income with $0 assets.

Answer is $916 pension or full pension.

So working off say 500K you get $576/p/f/n income 

 

Goto the Pension Calculator you put in married non-homeowner and $576 income with $0 assets

 

The answer is $622

 

Now I gather this is correct?

[4MyEgo]

21 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

My wife is not a resident. Not sure if I want to spend the next 25 years back in OZ working that one out?

You did say: 

"I just put in some different figures as a Couple Non-Homeowner and got these figures"

 

300K - $690/p/f/n

500K - $690/p/f/n

800K - $382/p/f/n

1 Million - $82/p/f/n

 

Nothing to sneeze (be better if single) at if you are in the country at the time or like myself, got pensioned off

 

I took that as you were a Couple Non Homeowners, suffice to say I agree, 25 years would be a life sentence, let alone 2 years ????

 

[LosLobo]

38 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

So working off say 500K you get $576/p/f/n income 

 

Goto the Pension Calculator you put in married non-homeowner and $576 income with $0 assets

 

The answer is $622

 

Now I gather this is correct?

Correct! 

Edited January 22, 2019 by LosLobo

[Will27]

3 hours ago, LosLobo said:

With respect, I was disappointed that "I will not now be making any further contributions on this site on this subject" was not true.

Don't get your hopes up.

 

He keeps promising this but always returns.

[4MyEgo]

46 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

In the Deeming Calculator put $161,000 this will get you $172/FN income.

In the Pension Calculator put single non homeowner and $172/FN income with $0 assets.

Answer is $916 pension or full pension.

In the Deeming Calculator I put $465,500 this got me 552/FN income.

In the Pension Calculator I put single non homeowner and $552 income with $465,500 assets.

Answer is $726.30 F/N pension under the income test or $916.30 under the assets test, your F/N payment will be $726.30 so it's really only a drop in the sea, i.e. $180 F/N for having some assets which is not bad IMO eg 32,500 baht per month based on to today's exchange rates.

Edited January 22, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[LosLobo]

3 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

In the Deeming Calculator I put $465,500 this got me 552/FN income.

In the Pension Calculator I put single non homeowner and $552 income with $465,500 assets.

Answer is $726.30 F/N pension under the income test or $916.30 under the assets test, your F/N payment will be $726.30 so it's really only a drop in the sea, i.e. $180 F/N for having some assets which is not bad IMO eg 32,500 baht per month based on to today's exchange rates.

So now you understand deeming and income/assets tests! ????

[4MyEgo]

13 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

So now you understand deeming and income/assets tests! ????

Thanks to you ????

 

Didn't even have to have a dummy spit. 

 

 

 

 

[totally thaied up]

14 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

So now you understand deeming and income/assets tests!

Thanks for this. Has made my mind rest a lot easier seeing in general how this all works now and I have a general idea how much income I will have in the future.

[LosLobo]

1 minute ago, 4MyEgo said:

Thanks to you ????

 

Didn't even have to have a dummy spit. 

 

 

 

 

But remember the deeming rate can change when interest rates move and/or it takes the Govt's fancy!

[LosLobo]

2 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

Thanks for this. Has made my mind rest a lot easier seeing in general how this all works now and I have a general idea how much income I will have in the future.

NB Interest rates are historically low now so remember the deeming rate can only go up in the future!

[Nemises]

Don't get your hopes up.   He keeps promising this but always returns.

 

 

About a year ago, another contributor to this thread Elvis1-6 (where are u mate?) and I also tried to educate the cranky man about Deeming. But cranky pants refused to accept all the reliable links we posted and instead called us nasty names, before telling us to shove it and promising never to post here again. But as Will27 mentioned he always returns, rudely shouting down anyone who mentions Deeming and the $162,000 financial asset limit for a non-home owner, single full pension.

 

[Nemises]

.

 

[Nemises]

.

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, LosLobo said:

But remember the deeming rate can change when interest rates move and/or it takes the Govt's fancy!

Good to know.

 

Another question if you don't mind, the 1.75% tax, is that on what you make, i.e. up to the figure they stipulate, eg around the $51,000 mark from memory, I mean if you earn $552 per fortnight i.e. $14,352 per annum and they have reduced your pension to around $726.30 per fortnight, are you also taxed on the $14,352 earned by deeming ?

 

As far as I recall the taxation scale allows you the to pay no tax up to $18,200, however not sure how Centrelink see this ?

 

I mean if they did tax you on $14,352 at 1.75% it would be peanuts, but good to know.

Edited January 22, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[LosLobo]

3 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Good to know.

 

Another question if you don't mind, the 1.75% tax, is that on what you make, i.e. up to the figure they stipulate, eg around the $51,000 mark from memory, I mean if you earn $552 per fortnight i.e. $14,352 per annum and they have reduced your pension to around $726.30 per fortnight, are you also taxed on the $14,352 earned by deeming ?

 

As far as I recall the taxation scale allows you the to pay no tax up to $18,200, however not sure how Centrelink see this ?

 

I mean if they did tax you on $14,352 at 1.75% it would be peanuts, but good to know.

There is no relationship between the deemed income and taxable income.

 

The advantage of super over self investment is that you don't have to worry about taxation.

[4MyEgo]

20 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

There is no relationship between the deemed income and taxable income.

 

The advantage of super over self investment is that you don't have to worry about taxation.

So on $465,500 you won't pay any tax, as the threshold of $18,200 is under what they would assess at using deeming, as mentioned earlier, i.e. $14,352 derived from 1.75% up to the $51,200, the 3.25% thereafter.

 

Super is a great tool, albeit you are at the governments whim to changes, that said, you leave it in there until you reach 60 and you collect that tax free ride, that said, if it's not a self managed super fund, you are at the disposal of others who control your future, plus they have fees, personally I would rather be in control ????

 

[LosLobo]

So on $465,500 you won't pay any tax, as the threshold of $18,200 is under what they would assess at using deeming, as mentioned earlier, i.e. $14,352 derived from 1.75% up to the $51,200, the 3.25% thereafter.
 
Super is a great tool, albeit you are at the governments whim to changes, that said, you leave it in there until you reach 60 and you collect that tax free ride, that said, if it's not a self managed super fund, you are at the disposal of others who control your future, plus they have fees, personally I would rather be in control [emoji846]
 

There is no relationship between the income deemed by Centrelink and taxable income assessed by ATO.

Taxable income threshold for pensioners with offsets is actually $32k not $18k.

I don't really understand your post could you reframe it please.


Sent from my SM-N9208 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[totally thaied up]

10 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

As far as I recall the taxation scale allows you the to pay no tax up to $18,200, however not sure how Centrelink see this ?

Working at a rate of $500K per investment using bank interest at 2.8% (you can do better than this of course but in your later years, many go to cash), you would not be paying tax. Even if you kept 50K under the mattress for extras during the year, and at today's FX rates you would be clearing 50,000 baht a month. That's pretty good. I can live on that easily here.

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

So on $465,500 you won't pay any tax, as the threshold of $18,200 is under what they would assess at using deeming, as mentioned earlier, i.e. $14,352 derived from 1.75% up to the $51,200, the 3.25% thereafter.

 

Super is a great tool, albeit you are at the governments whim to changes, that said, you leave it in there until you reach 60 and you collect that tax free ride, that said, if it's not a self managed super fund, you are at the disposal of others who control your future, plus they have fees, personally I would rather be in control ????

 

Sure, what I meant was if one earned under the tax threshold of $18,200 they wouldn't pay any tax, this is separate to deeming of course, as you be deemed to have made an income of $14,352 and your pension reduced to $726.30 as a single guy who has assets to the value of $465,500.

 

2 hours ago, LosLobo said:

There is no relationship between the income deemed by Centrelink and taxable income assessed by ATO.

Taxable income threshold for pensioners with offsets is actually $32k not $18k.

I don't really understand your post could you reframe it please.


Sent from my SM-N9208 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Now you have confused me....lol what is an offset ?

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Now you have confused me....lol what is an offset ?

Seniors and Pensioners Tax and Low Income Offsets increase assessable income threshold from 18k to 32k. If you're a pensioner you get them.

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by LosLobo

[Lacessit]

19 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

So on $465,500 you won't pay any tax, as the threshold of $18,200 is under what they would assess at using deeming, as mentioned earlier, i.e. $14,352 derived from 1.75% up to the $51,200, the 3.25% thereafter.

 

Super is a great tool, albeit you are at the governments whim to changes, that said, you leave it in there until you reach 60 and you collect that tax free ride, that said, if it's not a self managed super fund, you are at the disposal of others who control your future, plus they have fees, personally I would rather be in control ????

 

Super only works in terms of tax-free and getting dividend franking credits if you retain Australian residency. Become classed as non-resident, it's a different story.

There is also the question of whether the tax benefits one gets offset the accounting and audit fees one has to pay. I wound up my SMSF because the fees associated with the annual tax return became more than the tax benefit was worth. Once the low income tax threshold and Senior Australian's Tax Offset kicked in, combined with a part AAP, I was better off to the tune of about $1000 a year outside the super system.

There's also the peace of mind that comes from knowing the bureaucrats can't shift the goal posts on you any more. Unless they start fiddling with SATO and the low income tax threshold, in which case they'll be in a world of pain from their ministers. The pollies know where the votes are.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Lacessit

[LosLobo]

Super only works in terms of tax-free and getting dividend franking credits if you retain Australian residency. Become classed as non-resident, it's a different story.

I thought this only applied to SMSF's not ordinary Super Funds.

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, LosLobo said:

 

 

I thought this only applied to SMSF's not ordinary Super Funds.

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

You may be right. I've been out of the ordinary super fund system for about 18 years, so I would not know.

[David Walden]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:06 PM, 4MyEgo said:

Thanks for the links LosLobo, very informative and have to give credit to that cranky TVF member David Walden who is obviously very passionate about knowing his stuff, he is correct in stating that: The numbers for non-homeowners are $465,500.

 

I put that amount in one of the links (deeming) and it said I would make $8 a year so no skin off my nose there and if all was in order, i.e. I got divorced from the Mrs and only had $465,500 as a non homeowner, I would receive the full single pension with supplements about $900 plus bucks per f/n, sounds fair to me, just got to go and sit it out 2 years beforehand, apply and then catch the next flight out after all is approved.

 

Will have to get a divorce kit and complete it, lodge it and then get the Mrs to enter the country about 4 weeks after I have flown in, that or she stays low in Thailand for a little longer, but can't see that happening as we dig each others company and have kids.

 

Anyways got to start planning, thanks for everyone's input, including Cranky Dave's ????

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi this TVF David Walden.  Just to steer you in the right direction. 

    1...You don't have to be divorced to be separated.  A person can stand up and make a public statement that they are single and live with there now previous partner.  In writing is better.  There are great benefits to separating amicably.

 

    2...You need to divide all other assets (settle) apart from the jointly owned home you both live in, can do it if you want to.  Don't worry about knives forks and spoons.

 

    3...You can live in your still jointly owned house separated.  Download or get from Centrelink a form      "Separated living under the one roof" and submit it.  Haven't tried in Thailand but theoretically speaking it should work there also. Hmmmm.

 

    4...You don't have to sell your nice jointly owned house and buy 2 crappy ones.  Be sure you have separate bedrooms and provide your own food and do your own housework. Hmmm again. 

 

    5...You will need to have a joint Credit card or debit card to pay all your bills.  A credit card is better, put all your bill on it and pay it 50/50 when required one payment each the same each month. 

 

    6...You will both receive a single AAP payment each fortnight instead of the married rate  (an extra  $200+ p/F each).

 

     7...Plenty of blokes living in Thailand Separated but still married but separated (you do not have to be divorced to each get a single pension each.  Centrelink may ask why.  Just tell them it is none of their business.)  There are lots of personal even intimate reasons why you are separated but not divorced???  My old girlfriend was an investigator for Centrelink,  that issue is a no no for investigators. "You can get murdered for asking those questions"  she used to say.  As it was she used to get threatened with murder nearly every day...lots of stories there.

 

Like I have always said nearly all my posts on this site is as a result of my own personal experience.  Once granted "Separated living under the one roof".  is forever unless you remarry or live as a couple under the one roof again.   Warning  do not have holidays to the same location at the same time as your estranged wife, husband or partner.

 

[David Walden]

So on $465,500 you won't pay any tax, as the threshold of $18,200 is under what they would assess at using deeming, as mentioned earlier, i.e. $14,352 derived from 1.75% up to the $51,200, the 3.25% thereafter.

 

   The taxation single threshold for all Australian over the age of 65y/o is near $32,000.  You don't pay tax on income under that amount ( yes true not the same for under 65y/o).  You should take that into consideration when planning how to invest any retirement money.  Also, one of the benefits when on the married rate for the AAP is you can use your wife/husbands taxfree threshold to be offset against your income, your income is assessed as joint income.  This means a married couple can earn about $56.000 (maybe more now) and pay no tax at all and you don't even have to put a return in if you are certain you are under that combined asset threshold.

  If as a couple and each has the AAP of about $18,000 each that $36,000 per year one of you can earn $20,000 more and pay no tax whatsoever.  You apply to the Tax office the "Seniors offset tax application" and if you are earning only $20,000 per year on top of your combined AAP income the Taxation department will advise your employer not to deduct tax from your pay.  If they do as it takes about 6 weeks for the application to be granted you will need to put in a return to get back what you have already paid. 

    You need to make a new application each year to start in July.  if you are already receiving the seniors offset benefits from the tax dept they will send you an application form in mid May.  You can do it online when it works as I used to do when I drove the school bus (still miss it).  If you don't apply for the seniors offset tax reduction your employers will take the tax out and later you will have to put in a tax return to get it back.  a bird in the hand is worth two or ten in the bush.

 

I admit I do get a bit cranky on this site, this is due to the monotonous regularity of false and misleading information that appears on this site about The Australian Ages Pension often.  AAP some still call it Old Aged Pension (OAP).  That name was changed to AAP 35 years ago.   Lots and lots of post with never-ending incorrect information.  As I say almost everything I write about on this site is a result of my own personal experience.  Take it or leave.  "It's up to you"...a famous phrase used by bar girls with monotonous regularity in Thailand.  I forgive them.

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by David Walden

[LosLobo]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 2:39 AM, David Walden said:

I THOUGHT THIS SITE WAS ABOUT THE AUSTRALIAN AGE PENSION (AAP).  YOU ARE GETTING INTO SOME VERY HEAVY STUFF ABOUT AUSTRALIAN TAXATION MATTERS THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE AAP.

 

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 8:31 PM, David Walden said:

I know what I'm doing...thank you.

 

23 hours ago, David Walden said:

 The taxation single threshold for all Australian over the age of 65y/o is near $32,000.  You don't pay tax on income under that amount ( yes true not the same for under 65y/o).  You should take that into consideration when planning how to invest any retirement money.  Also, one of the benefits when on the married rate for the AAP is you can use your wife/husbands taxfree threshold to be offset against your income, your income is assessed as joint income.  This means a married couple can earn about $56.000 (maybe more now) and pay no tax at all and you don't even have to put a return in if you are certain you are under that combined asset threshold.

  If as a couple and each has the AAP of about $18,000 each that $36,000 per year one of you can earn $20,000 more and pay no tax whatsoever.  You apply to the Tax office the "Seniors offset tax application" and if you are earning only $20,000 per year on top of your combined AAP income the Taxation department will advise your employer not to deduct tax from your pay.  If they do as it takes about 6 weeks for the application to be granted you will need to put in a return to get back what you have already paid. 

    You need to make a new application each year to start in July.  if you are already receiving the seniors offset benefits from the tax dept they will send you an application form in mid May.  You can do it online when it works as I used to do when I drove the school bus (still miss it).  If you don't apply for the seniors offset tax reduction your employers will take the tax out and later you will have to put in a tax return to get it back.  a bird in the hand is worth two or ten in the bush.

To the average person, the above posts would seem to be offering conflicting advice. ????

Edited January 26, 2019 by LosLobo

[David Walden]

14 hours ago, LosLobo said:

 

 

To the average person, the above posts would seem to be offering conflicting advice. ????

Before commenting further why don't you go onto the ATO website and navigate to "Seniors taxation offsets for couples"  or is ignorance bliss. 

[David Walden]

On 1/23/2019 at 6:51 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Good to know.

 

Another question if you don't mind, the 1.75% tax, is that on what you make, i.e. up to the figure they stipulate, eg around the $51,000 mark from memory, I mean if you earn $552 per fortnight i.e. $14,352 per annum and they have reduced your pension to around $726.30 per fortnight, are you also taxed on the $14,352 earned by deeming ?

 

As far as I recall the taxation scale allows you the to pay no tax up to $18,200, however not sure how Centrelink see this ?

 

I mean if they did tax you on $14,352 at 1.75% it would be peanuts, but good to know.

If you would like a correct answer you need to ask you question bearing in mind if your questions are about  AAP matters or self-funded and over retirement age because different answers will apply for over or under 65y/o. i.e...tax thresholds, single or married, the work bonus which significantly increases your income threshold.  Income, deeming amounts and asset thresholds and other issues.  The "work bonus" will have a big effect on your deeming threshold, seniors tax offsets for couples and a host of other things.  It's mostly on the Centrelink web site and seniors tax information offset infomation.  Can be daunting navigation to what you want to know......PS Centrelink has no interest in your taxation liabilities.  Most pensioners (about 83%) pay no tax whatsoever. 

Watch out for tax accountant giving advice about Centrelink matters they probably know less than you do.

Edited January 27, 2019 by David Walden