Prayut comes under blistering attack as political bans are lifted

[anchadian]

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se-asia/seeking-stability

 

PUBLISHED: 

DEC 16, 2018, 5:00 AM SGT

 

Tan Hui Yee Indochina Bureau Chief In Bangkok

 

When poor people in Thailand queued to collect billions of baht in state-alloted cash handouts recently, critics accused the military government of using the exercise to raise the profile of its allied political party.

 

But the leader of the party in question, Dr Uttama Savanayana, is shrugging off the allegation as mere bluster as Asean's second-largest economy counts down to its first election in eight years.

 

"We are not just giving away stuff. We are helping them to improve themselves, creating new opportunities for themselves and their families," the chief of Palang Pracharath Party - and Thailand's Minister of Industry - told The Sunday Times. "You need to be able to lift them up enough so they have the strength to change."

[GarryP]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

So obviously those guys were guilty of corruption (money) and now could keep it and were not prosecuted if they switched sides. That does not make me change my mind about the quality of Thai politicians (and the hypocrite junta for not prosecuting people). 

Nor me. They moved pretty much as soon as it was announced that the investigations were continuing. In fact there has been commentary that such announcement was made for this very reason - to pull in some popular/powerful Pheu Thai party members with the offer of protection from the investigations. But like you say, they certainly must have something to hide. In any case, they were welcomed with open arms, so it shows that this new pro-Prayuth party is no better than any of the rest. Corrupt all the way through.  

Edited December 16, 2018 by GarryP

[Eric Loh]

Only in Thailand, land of endless coups is the military seen as a political solution. That will put Thailand on par with those warlord African nations. If Thailand want to be developed country, coups must be outlawed and coup instigators punished for treason. The citizens must regain their rightful power and chose their leaders. 

[trainman34014]

All these people coming out with comments like ''We know how to solve the country's problems''.  Well; they have all been there before in the past, with a few exceptions, wearing different coloured shirts and they didn't know then and they still won't know now, because all most are interested in is raking in as much cash as possible whilst at the feeding trough whilst the country's problems just keep on piling up.

If they were all so darned clever the Army would never have got a look in and the country would have actually made good forward progress !

[madmen]

Only in Thailand, land of endless coups is the military seen as a political solution. That will put Thailand on par with those warlord African nations. If Thailand want to be developed country, coups must be outlawed and coup instigators punished for treason. The citizens must regain their rightful power and chose their leaders. 

Choose their leaders to rape pillage and plunder the country. It's comical how long term expats STILL Don't get it

Have an election and woo hoo we are now a democracy. So what? The reality is all that happened was another corrupt party is in.

Prayut has done better in curbing corruption than the last dozen pm"s

He will be the next pm that's a given and that's fine by me

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Only in Thailand, land of endless coups is the military seen as a political solution. That will put Thailand on par with those warlord African nations. If Thailand want to be developed country, coups must be outlawed and coup instigators punished for treason. The citizens must regain their rightful power and chose their leaders. 

Soundly put, Eric.....

Such has been the way of political life in Thailand for ages - an influential military cycle that never seems to cease nor showing signs of disassembling from control [and their traditional protection racket] any time time.....regardless of said standing government. 

Yet, debates and punditry continue, blindly, as if the social order and political Thai nature can be adjusted with tweak here or there. 

Rhetoric becomes the closet ally of the well intended and naive. 

 

Nothing will ever come to positive and progressive standing until the deeply embedded military associations are cleansed from the spectrum of everyday existence. 

 

No one dare ask themselves the base reasons as to why the military exist and why they're so blessed to retain decades of a hold on everything. If one can answer the is very basic inquiry, a grip might be loosened considerably. 

 

At what cost, one can only speculate.

[billd766]

7 hours ago, HalfLight said:

 

I wonder if perhaps there's something in what you say. Personally, I think it's time that any non-military incoming government started ceasing general's pensions and started shooting some generals for treason as well as deleting their posts from the armed forces registries so they will never again be filled..

 

I doubt there'd be another coup  if it was perceived that was the likely result, one could argue that a part of the reason Thailand has had so many is that due retaliatory steps have never been taken against coup-makers.

 

 

The problem I see with that is who will shoot the generals? The Army certainly won't so it would be down to the police and the courts.

 

To be in a position to do that you would need an extremely strong civilian government and a proportion of the lower officer ranks, say from Colonel down, who would be expected to ignore the generals orders from above to get the job done.

 

If you were to decimate a number of retired generals and remove their positions from the Army lists then you would also remove the incentive for the colonels to be promoted thus defeating the object.

 

There would certainly be at least one attempt by the generals to stage a coup and unless the colonels and below are willing to take the chance and ignore the generals then it will possibly succeed. If not there will be chaos.

 

Perhaps if the Military could be convinced that there would be a reform of the military into a professional military and that promotions would be solely merit based and not of who you know or time served then it may stand a chance.

 

But how do you get rid of 1,700 generals when the current PM is one?

[billd766]

50 minutes ago, madmen said:

Choose their leaders to rape pillage and plunder the country. It's comical how long term expats STILL Don't get it

Have an election and woo hoo we are now a democracy. So what? The reality is all that happened was another corrupt party is in.

Prayut has done better in curbing corruption than the last dozen pm"s

He will be the next pm that's a given and that's fine by me

Having a free and fair transparent election is only the first step on the road to democracy and Thailand has been there several times. For some reason Thai politicians never seem to get past that first step.

 

The coming election whenever it is held, will IMHO not be free, fair or transparent as the odds are stacked against it, if for no other reason the 250 incoming senators simply by being chosen by the current government have already loaded the scales to one side already.

 

Sadly for you, IMHO Prayuth has done little or nothing to curb corruption other than to re-direct it to his mates rather that the way it was before.

[HalfLight]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

The problem I see with that is who will shoot the generals? The Army certainly won't so it would be down to the police and the courts.

 

To be in a position to do that you would need an extremely strong civilian government and a proportion of the lower officer ranks, say from Colonel down, who would be expected to ignore the generals orders from above to get the job done.

 

If you were to decimate a number of retired generals and remove their positions from the Army lists then you would also remove the incentive for the colonels to be promoted thus defeating the object.

 

There would certainly be at least one attempt by the generals to stage a coup and unless the colonels and below are willing to take the chance and ignore the generals then it will possibly succeed. If not there will be chaos.

 

Perhaps if the Military could be convinced that there would be a reform of the military into a professional military and that promotions would be solely merit based and not of who you know or time served then it may stand a chance.

 

But how do you get rid of 1,700 generals when the current PM is one?

 

Well, you can't, and this is a positive incentive for Prayuth to want to remain in power. For the rest, I don't agree. If a few generals were shot, then I think the ranks up to Colonel would be anxious to embrace a new order. There may be an uprising of course and a few more officers would be shot but I think the message would be sent and the Head Prefect would need to take notice or risk a civil war. Yes, it would take a strong government, not full of muppets like the current crop of politicians. Someone would need to get  serious.

 

 

[sjaak327]

14 hours ago, robblok said:

There is a marginal difference Sjaak and that is it, yes the others got voted in and then disregarded all other democratic principles. Then both of them start to bleed the country dry with corruption. Then yes the difference is getting voted in but I can't call it a true democracy in the way they behave break the laws and ignore the checks and balances. 

 

You keep acting like that is not the case, I can tell you if the checks and balances truly were adhered too the rice program and YL her investigation in it that did yield any results (surprise surprise) plus her bullying the whisleblower on the case would have ended far quicker and would not have needed an coup to get to the bottom of it all.  I could give you countless more examples of not working checks and balances and I think deep down you know its not working I cant believe anyone thinking checks and balances work with the huge corruption going on here. 

 

I don't care that your getting tired of it i get tired of you calling this a true democracy when it surely is not and all in power could not give a rats ass about it being a democracy or not as long as they are bleeding the country dry. 

 

The reason coups happen is because of money.. not because wealth distribution in your socialist mind that might be the reason. If there was no money to be made in goverment (no corruption and stealing) then there would not be such a vicious power struggle where both sides employ violence to get in power. Barharn even said that being in opposition is like starving yourself (guess what he means). I guess your projecting your western socialist ideas on a purely money thing. If it was about ideals then those mass defections would not happen. Coups will continue to happen for as long as corruption flourishes. All sides have the power to change this but none ever will as that is not why they are in politics. 

 

Anyway lets agree upon the fact that voted in here is marginally better but I wont agree that we have a full functioning democracy here with working checks and balances.  Its a kleptocracy if anything.

You are simply wrong, nothing more needs to be said. Stop trying to make an imaginary absence of democracy as a silly excuse that coup mongers have a point, they don't. And the downright disaster of the last 4.5 years, quite clearly prove my point. 

 

To even suggest Thaksin's "corruption" is comparable to what Prayuth has been doing, is simply ignoring the reality. It is not comparable at all. Facts quite clearly prove it's not. Stop denying cold hard facts, and wake the hell up.

 

[sjaak327]

4 hours ago, madmen said:

Choose their leaders to rape pillage and plunder the country. It's comical how long term expats STILL Don't get it

Have an election and woo hoo we are now a democracy. So what? The reality is all that happened was another corrupt party is in.

Prayut has done better in curbing corruption than the last dozen pm"s

He will be the next pm that's a given and that's fine by me

As opposed to leaders that force themselves by the barrel of a gun, and still plunder the country. But this time, without any checks and balances, and no way to get rid of them. It is clear you are the one that doesn't get it. Be ashamed. Any western expat openly advocating a dictatorship, either never went to school, or didn't pay attention. 

 

Oh and Prayuth didn't "curb"  corruption, as witnessed by the slippery slope Thailand is on in the corruption index. He isn't here to curb corruption, he is just here to Ensure only a few people benefit from it. A clever person would have know, people with good and honest intentions do not stage a coup. That in itself is dishonest and criminal. 

 

Why do you think transparency and accountablilty is absent. Follow the money. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by sjaak327

[sjaak327]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

The problem I see with that is who will shoot the generals? The Army certainly won't so it would be down to the police and the courts.

 

To be in a position to do that you would need an extremely strong civilian government and a proportion of the lower officer ranks, say from Colonel down, who would be expected to ignore the generals orders from above to get the job done.

 

If you were to decimate a number of retired generals and remove their positions from the Army lists then you would also remove the incentive for the colonels to be promoted thus defeating the object.

 

There would certainly be at least one attempt by the generals to stage a coup and unless the colonels and below are willing to take the chance and ignore the generals then it will possibly succeed. If not there will be chaos.

 

Perhaps if the Military could be convinced that there would be a reform of the military into a professional military and that promotions would be solely merit based and not of who you know or time served then it may stand a chance.

 

But how do you get rid of 1,700 generals when the current PM is one?

Nobody needs to shoot any generals. The army needs to be extensively reformed. Sack them is all it takes. The army needs to do what it is paid to do, namely protect Thailand from foreign enemies. All you need to know is the last 'war' Thailand was engaged in was lost against dirt poor Lao PDR. They suck at defending the country and they suck at ruling the country. Someone needs to Ensure that they never are in a position to rule the country. It only cost heaps of money, a lot of aggrevation and bring Thailand nowhere. 

 

A good start would be to close the money supply. But we all know what happens if someone even tries this. 

 

When do people start to ask questions I wonder, how can a mere general like Prayuth (and he is certainly not the only one) have so much assets. The answer is painfully Obvious, yet no civilian government has tried to do something about it. It's not just the army, it is the people that are behind the scenes that prevent this much needed reform. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by sjaak327

[lipflipper]

Blah, blah, blah from the Taksin lunatic fringe once again. If anyone thinks that the General Premier is going anywhere other than where he is at present need a reality check. Prayut ain't going away, get used to it.

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[madmen]

Having a free and fair transparent election is only the first step on the road to democracy and Thailand has been there several times. For some reason Thai politicians never seem to get past that first step.
 
The coming election whenever it is held, will IMHO not be free, fair or transparent as the odds are stacked against it, if for no other reason the 250 incoming senators simply by being chosen by the current government have already loaded the scales to one side already.
 
Sadly for you, IMHO Prayuth has done little or nothing to curb corruption other than to re-direct it to his mates rather that the way it was before.

I can only speak as to how pm Prayut has effected me personally.
Living on lower Sukhumvit for 12 years it was chaos, street stalls and footpath resteraunt were wiped out and they were all corrupt paying bribes. That was huge and never thought I would see it happen

Now that was a corruption buster no other government wanted to touch. I now have big fat footpaths.

There are many other things like bulldozing illegall buildings in national parks and beach fronts etc etc.

It hasn't stopped there but there are many threads over the years if you do due dilligance I won't hand feed you, sorry

[balo]

It's better with a democracy than a dictatorship. The corruption will be here anyway , you can't fix that over night. So Prayut will not survive more than 4 years. 

 

 

[robblok]

8 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

You are simply wrong, nothing more needs to be said. Stop trying to make an imaginary absence of democracy as a silly excuse that coup mongers have a point, they don't. And the downright disaster of the last 4.5 years, quite clearly prove my point. 

 

To even suggest Thaksin's "corruption" is comparable to what Prayuth has been doing, is simply ignoring the reality. It is not comparable at all. Facts quite clearly prove it's not. Stop denying cold hard facts, and wake the hell up.

 

Then we just dont agree, in your eyes Thailand has a functioning democracy and in my eyes its a kleptocracy. 

 

Give some hard facts about corruption numbers otherwise we don't know who is worse there are no facts to prove it. They are both crooks and I don't have the numbers to say who is worse and you don't either. 

[Puchaiyank]

Personally, do not hold out much hope for a government by the people...historically speaking unelected officials do not relinquish power...

Election is for perception and appeasement...

 

[Eric Loh]

6 hours ago, madmen said:

I can only speak as to how pm Prayut has effected me personally.
Living on lower Sukhumvit for 12 years it was chaos, street stalls and footpath resteraunt were wiped out and they were all corrupt paying bribes. That was huge and never thought I would see it happen

Now that was a corruption buster no other government wanted to touch. I now have big fat footpaths.

There are many other things like bulldozing illegall buildings in national parks and beach fronts etc etc.

It hasn't stopped there but there are many threads over the years if you do due dilligance I won't hand feed you, sorry

 

So your argument is that the lives lost, human right abuses, suppression of opinions, extra judiciary detention, military blatant corruption, doubtful military spending, skewed constitution etc etc are really not that important because you got big fat footpaths and beach fronts. 

[billd766]

8 hours ago, madmen said:

I can only speak as to how pm Prayut has effected me personally.
Living on lower Sukhumvit for 12 years it was chaos, street stalls and footpath resteraunt were wiped out and they were all corrupt paying bribes. That was huge and never thought I would see it happen

Now that was a corruption buster no other government wanted to touch. I now have big fat footpaths.

There are many other things like bulldozing illegall buildings in national parks and beach fronts etc etc.

It hasn't stopped there but there are many threads over the years if you do due dilligance I won't hand feed you, sorry

 

Actually it wasn't Prayuth who cleared Sukhumvit but the BMA and that has been going on for a few years now.

 

You don't need to feed me anything. I know there have been many threads over the years and have posted in a lot of them going back 15 years.

[madmen]

Actually it wasn't Prayuth who cleared Sukhumvit but the BMA and that has been going on for a few years now.
 
You don't need to feed me anything. I know there have been many threads over the years and have posted in a lot of them going back 15 years.

Who do you the think directed BMA? why didn't they clean them up 10 years ago?

[sjaak327]

I can only speak as to how pm Prayut has effected me personally.

Living on lower Sukhumvit for 12 years it was chaos, street stalls and footpath resteraunt were wiped out and they were all corrupt paying bribes. That was huge and never thought I would see it happen

 

Now that was a corruption buster no other government wanted to touch. I now have big fat footpaths.

 

There are many other things like bulldozing illegall buildings in national parks and beach fronts etc etc.

 

It hasn't stopped there but there are many threads over the years if you do due dilligance I won't hand feed you, sorry

 

 

That was the BMA not Prayuth. And not everyone applauds this action. In fact, it is a downright shame many have been forced out.

 

The biggest nuisance on your foot path, are still there, moving at speeds way too dangerous, the cheap food has disappeared.

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