Israel signals displeasure at Australia's 'mistaken' W.Jerusalem move

[webfact]

Israel signals displeasure at Australia's 'mistaken' W.Jerusalem move

By Dan Williams

 

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu attends the weekly cabinet meeting at his office in Jerusalem December 16, 2018. Abir Sultan/Pool via REUTERS

 

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel signalled displeasure on Sunday with Australia's recognition of West Jerusalem as its capital, with a confidant of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying it was a mistake to gainsay Israeli control over the whole city.

 

The premier, for his part, stayed silent on Canberra's move at a weekly Israeli cabinet meeting that is usually his opportunity to hold forth in public on major diplomatic developments.

 

Israel captured Arab East Jerusalem in a 1967 war and annexed it as its capital in a moved not recognised internationally.

 

Palestinians want East Jerusalem as capital of the state they hope to found in the occupied West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

 

A year ago, U.S. President Donald Trump outraged Palestinians by recognising Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, a designation that did not acknowledge their claim on the east of the city though it left open the question of its final borders.

 

On Saturday, Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Canberra formally recognises West Jerusalem as Israel's capital but reaffirmed his country's support for a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem under a two-state peace deal.

 

Israel's Foreign Ministry responded tepidly, calling the Australian move "a step in the right direction". At the cabinet meeting on Sunday, Netanyahu declined to elaborate.

 

"We issued a statement at the Foreign Ministry. I have nothing to add to it," he told reporters at the outset of the meeting.

 

Tzachi Hanegbi, Israel's minister for regional cooperation and a Netanyahu confidant in the right-wing Likud party, was more openly critical of Australia, though he deemed it a "deep and intimate friend of many years' standing".

 

"To our regret, within this positive news they made a mistake," Hanegbi told reporters outside the cabinet room.

 

"There is no division between the east of the city and west of the city. Jerusalem is one whole, united. Israel's control over it is eternal. Our sovereignty will not be partitioned nor undermined. And we hope Australia will soon find the way to fix the mistake it made."

Morrison's move first surfaced in October, when it was viewed cynically in Australia because it came days before a crucial by-election in an electorate a strong Jewish representation. His party lost that poll.

 

Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erekat said Saturday's move was born of Australian "petty domestic politics".

 

"All of Jerusalem remains a final-status issue for negotiations, while East Jerusalem, under international law, is an integral part of the occupied Palestinian territory," he said.

 

(Writing by Dan Williams, Editing by William Maclean)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-12-17

[dexterm]

Looks like PM Morrison has managed to upset everyone (Israelis, Palestinians, major trading partners) with his announcement which in effect simply reiterates no change in Australia's support for a two state solution. So why open his mouth at all? Not very diplomatic to risk valuable trade deals for absolutely zero gain.

 

All he is doing unsuccessfully is trying to backtrack after his brain fart of 2 months ago when he cynically hinted that Australia might consider moving its embassy to Jerusalem, just to gain a few votes in a hotly contested Sydney by election with a sizable Jewish population, treating them as gullible voters and stereotyping them all as Zionists.

 

He lost that by election and this follow up announcement looks like another diplomatic own goal.

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, dexterm said:

So why open his mouth at all?

Australia has its own foreign policies.

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Israel signalled displeasure on Sunday with Australia's recognition of West Jerusalem as its capital, with a confidant of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying it was a mistake to gainsay Israeli control over the whole city.

Furthermore, Trump has brought pressure with various threats to other embassies to relocate from Tel Aviv to West Jerusalem.

So it would be appropriate for the Australian government to explain its decision as a sovereign nation - something that nationalist Trump only recognizes for the US.

Australia may not be as vulnerable to a US tariff retaliation as Trump might believe given Australia ramping up its exports to China demand because of the US-China trade war.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/world-economy/australia-could-be-a-winner-in-chinaus-trade-battle/news-story/86b8909a7e1fb86fb2ddc54d85b06532

 

[Saladin]

I am not a supporter of Morrison but this time I think Australia got it right. It was rather subtle  - appearing to appease the land thieves of Israel while still supporting Palestinian rights.

[Guest Jerry787]

good Australians to stands the Zionist arrogance of Netanyahu.

[heybuz]

he painted himself into a corner trying to win the jewish vote in the bi/election but it backfired, now how to get out of this.

[Nilats]

I spent a considerable time in Israel... been to Jerusalem maybe 5-6 times... as far as I know the whole city of Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, I thought everyone knew this. Eventually all countries will recognize it as such, it's just gonna take some time I guess.

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, Nilats said:

I spent a considerable time in Israel... been to Jerusalem maybe 5-6 times... as far as I know the whole city of Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, I thought everyone knew this. Eventually all countries will recognize it as such, it's just gonna take some time I guess.

That you thought everyone knew that the whole city of Jerusalem is the capital of Israel,doesn't speak well of how informed you are. It's not like this hasn't been a huge and well reported issue since 1967.

[Nilats]

11 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

That you thought everyone knew that the whole city of Jerusalem is the capital of Israel,doesn't speak well of how informed you are. It's not like this hasn't been a huge and well reported issue since 1967.

According to Israeli law - the whole city is the capital... it's never been an issue for me, so what's there to debate. Just stating what I know.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Nilats said:

According to Israeli law - the whole city is the capital... it's never been an issue for me, so what's there to debate. Just stating what I know.

But you didn't state just what you know. You also asserted this:

"Eventually all countries will recognize it as such, it's just gonna take some time I guess."

[Nilats]

9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

But you didn't state just what you know. You also asserted this:

"Eventually all countries will recognize it as such, it's just gonna take some time I guess."

It is Israel's capital, so recognizing it as such is the right thing to do - I think people are just over-complicating the whole issue for no apparent reason.

[bristolboy]

5 minutes ago, Nilats said:

It is Israel's capital, so recognizing it as such is the right thing to do - I think people are just over-complicating the whole issue for no apparent reason.

If "might makes right" is justification, then your point is unassailable.

[Nilats]

9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

If "might makes right" is justification, then your point is unassailable.

The fact that Jerusalem is the Jewish capital is the most well recorded fact in human history, according to all available sources, this has nothing to do with force - it's justice.

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, Nilats said:

The fact that Jerusalem is the Jewish capital is the most well recorded fact in human history, according to all available sources, this has nothing to do with force - it's justice.

And Constantinople was at the center of Christianity for a thousand years. Would that fact justify another crusade?

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, Nilats said:

According to Israeli law - the whole city is the capital... it's never been an issue for me, so what's there to debate. Just stating what I know.

And according to International Law, numerous UN resolutions (242,252,465,478,2334), The Geneva Convention, the International Court of Justice...the whole city is not the Israeli capital. East Jerusalem is illegally occupied Palestinian territory.

 

In fact, Israel is the only country in the world that recognizes Jerusalem as its undivided capital.

Even Trump hasn't gone that far. He's dog whistled as such, like Morrison when he was trying to win votes, but the fine print says it's still a final status issue.

[Cats4ever]

1 hour ago, Nilats said:

The fact that Jerusalem is the Jewish capital is the most well recorded fact in human history, according to all available sources, this has nothing to do with force - it's justice.

Jerusalem was supposed to be apart from the Israeli state created in 1947. People argue that it has been their capital for millenia, but there have been substantial periods of time

when the ancestors of the current Israelis were absent. Obviously the law of adverse possession does not feature in the old tome that many religos refer back to. I understand the horrors of the terrorists, including a lot of the weirdo settlers dispossessing Palestinian people in a completely unreported manner. Just another example of ancient beliefs buggering up the modern world.

[Nilats]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

And according to International Law, numerous UN resolutions (242,252,465,478,2334), The Geneva Convention, the International Court of Justice...the whole city is not the Israeli capital. East Jerusalem is illegally occupied Palestinian territory.

 

In fact, Israel is the only country in the world that recognizes Jerusalem as its undivided capital.

Even Trump hasn't gone that far. He's dog whistled as such, like Morrison when he was trying to win votes, but the fine print says it's still a final status issue.

Have fun fighting your losing battle on this issue... I expressed my view, I'm not planning to change it.

[Nilats]

1 hour ago, Cats4ever said:

Jerusalem was supposed to be apart from the Israeli state created in 1947. People argue that it has been their capital for millenia, but there have been substantial periods of time

when the ancestors of the current Israelis were absent. Obviously the law of adverse possession does not feature in the old tome that many religos refer back to. I understand the horrors of the terrorists, including a lot of the weirdo settlers dispossessing Palestinian people in a completely unreported manner. Just another example of ancient beliefs buggering up the modern world.

I've been to many parts of Israel, 20% of Israel's population are Arabs and hold internal passport, they have access to healthcare and they can vote. At one place I saw the same "liberal" nonsense as they have in Europe - i.e. some jobs only Arabs can take - such as in Israeli supermarkets - they have their own worker's "union" of a sort - Israeli Jews couldn't even get a job there if they wanted to. There's much to Israel than they tell you. I dare to say that many Israeli Arabs have better lives than many Americans - because they have steady life and access to healthcare, they don't have to serve in the army... etc... it's these stories about Arabs all over Israel that for some reason they never tell you about.

[Galactus]

agree with Israelis Minister. there is only oen Jerusalem and i believe this city is belong to all humanity. not to jews or muslim.

[dexterm]

1 hour ago, Nilats said:

I've been to many parts of Israel, 20% of Israel's population are Arabs and hold internal passport, they have access to healthcare and they can vote. At one place I saw the same "liberal" nonsense as they have in Europe - i.e. some jobs only Arabs can take - such as in Israeli supermarkets - they have their own worker's "union" of a sort - Israeli Jews couldn't even get a job there if they wanted to. There's much to Israel than they tell you. I dare to say that many Israeli Arabs have better lives than many Americans - because they have steady life and access to healthcare, they don't have to serve in the army... etc... it's these stories about Arabs all over Israel that for some reason they never tell you about.

Life for Israeli Palestinians is not quite as rosy as you depict.
I suggest you research the over 65 Israeli laws that discriminate directly or indirectly against Palestinian citizens in Israel 
https://www.adalah.org/en and in particular the recent racist Nation State Law that enshrines Jewish supremacy.

 

So if Israel is so magnanimous and kind towards its Palestinian citizens, the solution to a divided Jerusalem and illegal occupation of the West Bank is simple...Israel annexes the lot and grants all Jerusalemites and West Bank Palestinians equal citizenship. Everyone could move their embassies to Jerusalem then.

 

But that would mean the end of Jewish supremacy and Zionism, so for now that's a non starter for the current right wing nationalist Israeli government.

But that's what's going to happen one day anyway, or some sort of united confederation where everyone can live, work, and worship wherever they like.

[Nilats]

46 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Life for Israeli Palestinians is not quite as rosy as you depict.
I suggest you research the over 65 Israeli laws that discriminate directly or indirectly against Palestinian citizens in Israel 
https://www.adalah.org/en and in particular the recent racist Nation State Law that enshrines Jewish supremacy.

 

So if Israel is so magnanimous and kind towards its Palestinian citizens, the solution to a divided Jerusalem and illegal occupation of the West Bank is simple...Israel annexes the lot and grants all Jerusalemites and West Bank Palestinians equal citizenship. Everyone could move their embassies to Jerusalem then.

 

But that would mean the end of Jewish supremacy and Zionism, so for now that's a non starter for the current right wing nationalist Israeli government.

But that's what's going to happen one day anyway, or some sort of united confederation where everyone can live, work, and worship wherever they like.

Dude do you understand that I have actually BEEN there many times... I'm not interested in any of your anti-Israel hate nonsense... You don't know anything, period, if you've never visited the country. I've crossed the whole country back and forth a few times - I saw everything with my own eyes, therefore unsurprisingly i'm not interested in your opinion, is that registering with you at all or not?

[dexterm]

54 minutes ago, Nilats said:

Dude do you understand that I have actually BEEN there many times... I'm not interested in any of your anti-Israel hate nonsense... You don't know anything, period, if you've never visited the country. I've crossed the whole country back and forth a few times - I saw everything with my own eyes, therefore unsurprisingly i'm not interested in your opinion, is that registering with you at all or not?

And I too have visited Jerusalem and Israel from the occupied Golan to Eilat, plus every single surrounding country as far as Afghanistan and Pakistan. But that does not make me an expert.

 

I was horrified by the racism expressed by young Israelis I met which prompted me to research the history of the conflict, rather than believe the one sided narrative that Israel and most media push.

 

My hatred is anti the current right wing Israeli government and the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism, not the Israeli people nor Judaism.

 

I personally would like to see a true secular democracy in the whole of a united Palestine/Israel with different peoples living together in peace and prosperity respecting one another's cultures and religions.

It'll happen one day hopefully in my lifetime. And a divided Jerusalem along with the current conflict will be just a footnote in history.

[Nilats]

25 minutes ago, dexterm said:

And I too have visited Jerusalem and Israel from the occupied Golan to Eilat, plus every single surrounding country as far as Afghanistan and Pakistan. But that does not make me an expert.

 

I was horrified by the racism expressed by young Israelis I met which prompted me to research the history of the conflict, rather than believe the one sided narrative that Israel and most media push.

 

My hatred is anti the current right wing Israeli government and the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism, not the Israeli people nor Judaism.

 

I personally would like to see a true secular democracy in the whole of a united Palestine/Israel with different peoples living together in peace and prosperity respecting one another's cultures and religions.

It'll happen one day hopefully in my lifetime. And a divided Jerusalem along with the current conflict will be just a footnote in history.

What most media push is the usual picture of the Dome of the Rock, dramatic Eastern music playing in the background, rockets flying, explosions, etc etc, screaming, drama... The usual pile of nonsense because I guess it just sells really well to any type of audience around the world - none of that even remotely resembles the actual setting, pace of life in Israel - it's one of the safest countries in the world... and it's really quiet most of the time, zero drama and just people living their usual lives like everywhere else. Most western media is anti-Israel... I have no idea again what ur talking about.

 

"My hatred is anti the current right wing Israeli government and the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism, not the Israeli people nor Judaism."

Statements like this is precisely how I know you have zero clue of what ur talking about... I lived there for years so I have much wider exposure to the actual culture, mentality, opinions etc... I understand Hebrew, I've never once come across such nonsense opinions that you describe... You must be thinking of your Australian system of white supremacy and assuming it's the same in Israel. Is is NOT - I don't even want to waste my time with you.

 

If you want to see a true secular democracy - start with your own country, lots of work still to do over there.

[bristolboy]

6 minutes ago, Nilats said:

What most media push is the usual picture of the Dome of the Rock, dramatic Eastern music playing in the background, rockets flying, explosions, etc etc, screaming, drama... The usual pile of nonsense because I guess it just sells really well to any type of audience around the world - none of that even remotely resembles the actual setting, pace of life in Israel - it's one of the safest countries in the world... and it's really quiet most of the time, zero drama and just people living their usual lives like everywhere else. Most western media is anti-Israel... I have no idea again what ur talking about.

 

"My hatred is anti the current right wing Israeli government and the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism, not the Israeli people nor Judaism."

Statements like this is precisely how I know you have zero clue of what ur talking about... I lived there for years so I have much wider exposure to the actual culture, mentality, opinions etc... I understand Hebrew, I've never once come across such nonsense opinions that you describe... You must be thinking of your Australian system of white supremacy and assuming it's the same in Israel. Is is NOT - I don't even want to waste my time with you.

 

If you want to see a true secular democracy - start with your own country, lots of work still to do over there.

The Rift in Society Between Israeli Jews and Arabs Is Growing, Survey Shows

48 percent of Jewish pollsters said they wouldn't want to have Arabs as neighbors; the percentage of Arab respondents who acknowledged Israel's right to exist has plummeted compared to a similar poll from last year

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-rift-between-israeli-jews-and-arabs-growing-poll-shows-1.5886038

[dexterm]

53 minutes ago, Nilats said:

What most media push is the usual picture of the Dome of the Rock, dramatic Eastern music playing in the background, rockets flying, explosions, etc etc, screaming, drama... The usual pile of nonsense because I guess it just sells really well to any type of audience around the world - none of that even remotely resembles the actual setting, pace of life in Israel - it's one of the safest countries in the world... and it's really quiet most of the time, zero drama and just people living their usual lives like everywhere else. Most western media is anti-Israel... I have no idea again what ur talking about.

 

"My hatred is anti the current right wing Israeli government and the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism, not the Israeli people nor Judaism."

Statements like this is precisely how I know you have zero clue of what ur talking about... I lived there for years so I have much wider exposure to the actual culture, mentality, opinions etc... I understand Hebrew, I've never once come across such nonsense opinions that you describe... You must be thinking of your Australian system of white supremacy and assuming it's the same in Israel. Is is NOT - I don't even want to waste my time with you.

 

If you want to see a true secular democracy - start with your own country, lots of work still to do over there.

We will just have to agree to differ then.

 

Palestinians outnumber Israeli Jews in historic Palestine (have done so for the last 2,000 years), the area that Israel now controls 100%. I don't see how the colonialist Israeli Jewish minority can continue to hold onto all the land and still rule over the majority non Jewish without giving them equal rights in a one or acceptable two state solution. It would be a first in history.

 

We will see how events unfold over the next few years. Administrations come and go.

 

BTW  Australia is not my country.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, Nilats said:

I spent a considerable time in Israel... been to Jerusalem maybe 5-6 times... as far as I know the whole city of Jerusalem is the capital of Israel, I thought everyone knew this. Eventually all countries will recognize it as such, it's just gonna take some time I guess.

 

Yes, but then commenting on topics while claiming (or pretending to) not to be informed it somewhat of a thing with you. This bit is especially contrived, considering the number of times this point was discussed on tvf alone, nevermind international media (and, of course, Israeli media as well).

[Morch]

7 hours ago, dexterm said:

And according to International Law, numerous UN resolutions (242,252,465,478,2334), The Geneva Convention, the International Court of Justice...the whole city is not the Israeli capital. East Jerusalem is illegally occupied Palestinian territory.

 

In fact, Israel is the only country in the world that recognizes Jerusalem as its undivided capital.

Even Trump hasn't gone that far. He's dog whistled as such, like Morrison when he was trying to win votes, but the fine print says it's still a final status issue.

 

East Jerusalem wasn't cast as a "Palestinian territory" to begin with, and the same goes for the other part of the city and Israeli sovereignty. East Jerusalem was occupied and annexed by Jordan for many years, without much fuss by the international community or the Palestinians themselves. 

[Nilats]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Yes, but then commenting on topics while claiming (or pretending to) not to be informed it somewhat of a thing with you. This bit is especially contrived, considering the number of times this point was discussed on tvf alone, nevermind international media (and, of course, Israeli media as well).

Maybe I got a bit carried away. But this is the Israeli standpoint - Jerusalem is the indisputable capital of Israel, there hasn't been any debate about it in Israel for decades now. I assume it's already 2nd or 3d generation of Israelis growing up with Jerusalem as their capital.

[Scott]

Please stay on topic.

 

[Morch]

13 hours ago, Nilats said:

Maybe I got a bit carried away. But this is the Israeli standpoint - Jerusalem is the indisputable capital of Israel, there hasn't been any debate about it in Israel for decades now. I assume it's already 2nd or 3d generation of Israelis growing up with Jerusalem as their capital.

 

No, it isn't an all-encompassing "Israeli standpoint". To begin with Israel's sizeable Arab minority may see things differently, and then there are those Israelis not fully embracing right wing positions as you imply.

 

There is a wide consensus among Israeli Jews regarding Jerusalem's status as the county capital - what comes under this label, ,though, is another matter. The same popular support is not afforded for statements referencing West Jerusalem, the holy sites or East Jerusalem. As for "there hasn't been any debate about it in Israel for decades now" - that would be one of your customary counterfactual assertions. What Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem encompasses or ought to encompass is often discussed.