Pros/Cons of CM

[rumak]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Actually, I thought your response was well-nuanced sarcasm. Perhaps I'm  cynical after what I've seen on TV.

Actually, you are often right in the middle of what you see on TV.  That's why we so appreciate your contributions.

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, smotherb said:

 

 

Chiang Mai is a farang ghetto, so that is a con and that alone puts me off. The long lines at immigration, the lousy air quality and the general high cost are all turn-offs. The pros; well I guess there are some decent farang restaurants and bars, lots of farangs with whom to commiserate and plenty of your major stores. However, as I said, I can do without them all. If I feel the need, I can travel to any one of them--Phuket, Samui, Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai, ad infinitum.  

Whoa there. The definition of a ghetto is the part of a city, especially a slum area, where a minority group lives and has restricted freedom of movement.

There are farangs all over Chiang Mai, living in accommodation ranging from rooms to studio apartments to condo penthouses to very comfortable houses out in the suburbs. I'm sure they don't feel they are in a ghetto, except perhaps for the ones living on the edge.

Immigration long lines are readily solved with an agent. Granted the air quality is lousy between mid-February and the end of March; however, I can escape that with a short plane ride.

General high cost? What on earth are you talking about? The rent I pay here for one month would barely stretch to one week in Australia. The tenderloin pork steak, mussuman curry or seafood marinara I dine on here for about 150 baht would cost nearly five times as much, as an item on a pub menu in Australia. Granted, decent beef or wine are problematic. Plenty of inexpensive fruit and vegetables at any of the markets.

I enjoy my swimming at the condo, inexpensive golf ( including lady caddies ), and move freely between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai as the whim takes me. Hardly the life of a ghetto dweller, and there are plenty like me.

I get that you may prefer your own company. I like a bit of space occasionally too. However, your post is bordering on misanthropy.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Lacessit

[canthai55]

OP - do not listen to all the moaning about CNX Immigration.

Granted - they are not the easiest people to deal with, but if you have all the required documents it takes less than one day out of the year. 90 reports can be done by mail.

If in doubt, use a Visa service your first year, get a feel of what is required, and do it yourself the next year.

Or just have them do everything for you, all you will have to do is allow yourself to be driven to Immigration by the Visa company, sign the forms, and walk out set to go for another year.

Easy Peasy

Edited January 6, 2019 by canthai55

[mrmillersr]

12 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

Please expand on that. Women issues? Difficulty assimilating? Visa issues? The heat was too much? Did you live on an extremely tight budget where it didn't allow you to enjoy some of the nicer things? Any and all information is appreciated. Thanks!

Part of it was getting far away from people like you who think CM is a great place to live.  And no, I have none of the issues you listed that you likely are dealing with. 

 

As far as being on a tight budget I'm actually quite well off and don't really have any budget. I buy and do as I want as I can afford it. Do me a favor.  Stay put where you are as CM seems to be the perfect place for you and your attitude.

[cardinalblue]

If you feel CM has good public transportation, I question your definition of what public transportation is....

 

i want to go to Mae rim, I want to go hang dong or doi saket and know the schedule of arrivals and departures....

 

bkk has has a public transportation system; CM does not....

 

traffic is is increasingly bad in CM contributed to by NOT having a PT system....

 

relying on red Songthaews? What a joke!

 

 

 

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

If you feel CM has good public transportation, I question your definition of what public transportation is....

i want to go to Mae rim, I want to go hang dong or doi saket and know the schedule of arrivals and departures....

bkk has has a public transportation system; CM does not....

traffic is is increasingly bad in CM contributed to by NOT having a PT system....

relying on red Songthaews? What a joke!

You get on a red songthaew and go anywhere at anytime 

[CGW]

I considered moving to CM at one point, there is one major con - pollution, both noise and air, now the traffic is horrendous also - no thanks ????

[cardinalblue]

Yes, you are correct...if you go at 11pm, you will find no lines at immigration...

 

you’re one funny man and not even know it...

 

 

 

 

 

[bkk6060]

CM is a good place I think.

I live in Pattaya but also have a long term lease on a house 20 minutes outside CM city.

Modern with a nice yard in community with custom built homes.

I go to CM about 7 to 10 days a month because I wanted a get away place and my house in CM is very quiet with lots of nature around.

Anyway,  The complainers about the cost just seems ridiculous to me.  People who constantly state that should make sure they say:  I have little money and Thailand is so expensive for me.

It is very inexpensive I think.  In fact it is still rated by many publications as one of the top 10 places to live/retire for cost of living.

If you choose correctly a place to live in CM it can be a very nice lifestyle.  I know several families also the international schools here are very good.  Lots of good restaurants, golf courses I usually place every other day, good food joints, and much less undesirable characters then Pattaya.

 

Some of the cons are the population of ex-pats is generally older.

The smoke season did not bother me that much but I can see how it could,  Air is not good for a few months.

If one does not have activities (gold, cycling, trekking, motorbike riding, etc.) they enjoy, I bet it can get a little boring. 

Another thing someone mentioned it is 99,99% sex tourists.  They obviously have never been there.

CM is not a sex tourist destination.  Loh Kroh road has some shops but it is a grain of sand compared to Pattaya.  That is actually a bad thing for some. Most tourists I see are Chinese, Falang backpacker types eating vegetarian and staying in one of the many inexpensive hotels and hostels.  Very few Indian or Arab tourists from my observation.

The traffic can be bad like any place else.  The super highways sure help, but at peak times yes there is a lot of traffic in CM.

 

For a tourist CM is good for 3 or 4 days.

Living here I would say look for a place outside the city.  There are many nice areas and get a motorbike or small car.

 

If you have no money and are looking for the cheap I can say not much as fortunately, that is not my life.

 

Edited January 6, 2019 by bkk6060

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, CGW said:

I considered moving to CM at one point, there is one major con - pollution, both noise and air, now the traffic is horrendous also - no thanks ????

The traffic can be horrendous if one is driving a car. On a scooter, it's not difficult.

[CGW]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The traffic can be horrendous if one is driving a car. On a scooter, it's not difficult.

Then you are breathing in all that pollution! 

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, CGW said:

Then you are breathing in all that pollution! 

At my age, I don't think it particularly matters. If you live in CM, you are breathing it in whether you are on a scooter or not.

[CMNightRider]

7 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

Thanks for the response NightRider. I appreciate yours and all the other diverse responses. Everyone has their own feeling about things and one persons great experience is another's not-so-good experience.

 

One of my cons was immigration but I've come to accept the fact that we'll need to dump 800,000 baht into their banks and I'm now fine with that. Of course no definite decision has been made by the Thai authorities yet so we'll have to see what happens but it sounds like we'll have to go the 800,000 route OR have 65,000 transferred into a bank each month.

 

If you don't mind me asking what sort of property did you buy? Condo? If so you can rent it out and return to it one day possibly if immigration loosens their requirements.  

 

  

I purchased a home but it is in my wife name.  Personally, I would just rent a nice condo if I were you.  Immigration will not loosen their requirements for farangs but tighten them in the future, and at some point you will tire of jumping through their hoops just to renew a one year visa.  The banking in Thailand requirement was the last straw for me.  Good luck ????

[1FinickyOne]

11 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

Cons:  Deadly air, pollution, black lung

Cons:  Dangerous roads, sidewalks, everywhere dangerous

Cons:  Not as cheap as before

Cons:  People not as friendly as elsewhere

Cons:  Farangs drunk, 99.999% sex tourists.  

Cons:  Rains a lot, cold, allergies

Cons:  Dogs

1.the air is bad for only a short period of time... but black lung? a coal miners disease?

2. sidewalks seem fine... roads anywhere in Thailand can be dangerous...

3. Where in the world is it as "cheap as before?" 

4. Northern Thai are the friendliest

5. 99.99% - this is not about Pattaya... definitely not CM

6. rains less than the coastal areas.

7. not much of a soi dog problem here. 

 

Puukao - have you been to CM?

 

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

I purchased a home but it is in my wife name.  Personally, I would just rent a nice condo if I were you.  Immigration will not loosen their requirements for farangs but tighten them in the future, and at some point you will tire of jumping through their hoops just to renew a one year visa.  The banking in Thailand requirement was the last straw for me.  Good luck ????

I guess you aren't up to date.  The banking requirement got easier.  You don't need a letter from the embassy anymore only documentation from the bank.  Glad to see you go though if you consider the minuscule immigration procedure jumping through hoops.  

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, kenk24 said:

1.the air is bad for only a short period of time... but black lung? a coal miners disease?

2. sidewalks seem fine... roads anywhere in Thailand can be dangerous...

3. Where in the world is it as "cheap as before?" 

4. Northern Thai are the friendliest

5. 99.99% - this is not about Pattaya... definitely not CM

6. rains less than the coastal areas.

7. not much of a soi dog problem here. 

 

Puukao - have you been to CM?

 

Air is bad for 3 months a year.  The expats attitude complaining on every corner and in every bar is bad 12 months a year. 

[smotherb]

8 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Whoa there. The definition of a ghetto is the part of a city, especially a slum area, where a minority group lives and has restricted freedom of movement.

There are farangs all over Chiang Mai, living in accommodation ranging from rooms to studio apartments to condo penthouses to very comfortable houses out in the suburbs. I'm sure they don't feel they are in a ghetto, except perhaps for the ones living on the edge.

Immigration long lines are readily solved with an agent. Granted the air quality is lousy between mid-February and the end of March; however, I can escape that with a short plane ride.

General high cost? What on earth are you talking about? The rent I pay here for one month would barely stretch to one week in Australia. The tenderloin pork steak, mussuman curry or seafood marinara I dine on here for about 150 baht would cost nearly five times as much, as an item on a pub menu in Australia. Granted, decent beef or wine are problematic. Plenty of inexpensive fruit and vegetables at any of the markets.

I enjoy my swimming at the condo, inexpensive golf ( including lady caddies ), and move freely between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai as the whim takes me. Hardly the life of a ghetto dweller, and there are plenty like me.

I get that you may prefer your own company. I like a bit of space occasionally too. However, your post is bordering on misanthropy.

Gee, now you are arguing semantics and giving your opinion. I simply gave mine, pay attention.  A farang ghetto to me is any place numerous farangs gather. Chiang Mai fits that description. I can live cheaper and better--in my opinion, and quite frankly, my opinion is what matters to me--in places where fewer farangs exist.

 

Again, you jump to conclusions. I do not prefer my own company, I enjoy the companionship of others, but they do not have to be Westerners.  In fact, only about half of my friends in Thailand are farang, and only a few of them are from my country. 

[HuskerDo]

7 hours ago, mrmillersr said:

Part of it was getting far away from people like you who think CM is a great place to live.  And no, I have none of the issues you listed that you likely are dealing with. 

 

As far as being on a tight budget I'm actually quite well off and don't really have any budget. I buy and do as I want as I can afford it. Do me a favor.  Stay put where you are as CM seems to be the perfect place for you and your attitude.

Not sure why you hate CM and the people in it so much but something must have happened to cause all your hatred. I wish you a great life.

[Puwa]

Pros:

-Good balance between city amenities (shopping, restaurants, universities, good internet, events, clubs, classes, school choices for families) and natural environment (parks, waterfalls, hills, trails for hiking and biking)

-Cooler weather than many places in Thailand

-Convenient for travel by air, rail or road

-Local and international cuisine 

-A low-cost lifestyle is possible: accommodation, transport, food etc 

-Northerners tend to be relaxed, friendly, unassuming

 

Cons:

-The city is growing haphazardly, blocking views, clogging roads

-The burning season affects many and makes outdoor activity inadvisable for 6 weeks or so per year

-Winter season is getting really crowded, especially with Thai tourists from Bangkok who all drive

 

Of course, different people like different things, and live in different ways. Chiang Mai is definitely not the place of choice for people who want the old-school bar-and-sex scene; choose Pattaya for that, I guess. It's great for those who like the outdoors: hiking, biking, golf, gardening, motorcycle touring.

[mrmillersr]

2 hours ago, HuskerDo said:

Not sure why you hate CM and the people in it so much but something must have happened to cause all your hatred. I wish you a great life.

FYI, what happened was I lived in CM for longer than I should have as I'm sure is the case with many others.  I hope you get the opportunity to do the same and get to experience all the not so great aspects of what has become an overcrowded, highly polluted region of Thailand. 

 

Perhaps you will find some like minded individuals and you can discuss how the toxic air doesn't affect you, how the congested traffic is no problem and why you love going to immigration to sort out your visa affairs.  Or maybe, you will wake up, smell the coffee, and move on to a better location like I did, but somehow I doubt that will happen. 

 

Also, I think you're use of the word "hatred" is a bit much as I'm only being a realist about what I experienced after living here for a number of years.  Really, I think you will fit in perfectly in CM so don't have second thoughts about it.  I'm sure you will become one of the regular posters and people will be delighted to hear what you have to say. 

[HuskerDo]

23 minutes ago, mrmillersr said:

FYI, what happened was I lived in CM for longer than I should have as I'm sure is the case with many others.  I hope you get the opportunity to do the same and get to experience all the not so great aspects of what has become an overcrowded, highly polluted region of Thailand. 

 

Perhaps you will find some like minded individuals and you can discuss how the toxic air doesn't affect you, how the congested traffic is no problem and why you love going to immigration to sort out your visa affairs.  Or maybe, you will wake up, smell the coffee, and move on to a better location like I did, but somehow I doubt that will happen. 

 

Also, I think you're use of the word "hatred" is a bit much as I'm only being a realist about what I experienced after living here for a number of years.  Really, I think you will fit in perfectly in CM so don't have second thoughts about it.  I'm sure you will become one of the regular posters and people will be delighted to hear what you have to say. 

Hatred, bitterness, negativity.... call it what you will but you have it Mike. You lived here too long you say. Whose fault was that? If you hated it so much why did you stay so long? Seems like there is another part to your story that you aren't sharing.

 

The three things you mention I see as non-issues. The air is fine except during burning season. During that time a person can fly elsewhere for a couple of months. When in town during that time simply get a mask to wear. Many people do that in burning season. Also, get an air filtering system for your home/rental. Easy stuff. Even take an annual trip to their native country. Congested traffic? Really? Tell me a city that doesn't have that. If you live somewhere where you can walk to most of the places you frequent on a regular basis guess what? NO TRAFFIC CONGESTION! ???? 

 

I don't see the visa thing as an issue. Put the 800,000 in the bank and you are set. It takes less than a day to get thru the annual renewal thus you have 364 days to have fun other than the 90 day reporting and that can be done online or via mail. easy stuff.

 

At any rate I hope you are happy where you are now. Everyone deserves to be happy.

 

 

[jabis]

Considering Chiang Mai is the second largest city in Thailand, it certainly feels quite small and homey. Sure it can be as expensive as BKK, if you only do your shopping in the malls and visit top-end(or "farang" chain) restaurants, but surely not a "farang ghetto" as some previous poster wrote, if you're not living and frequenting only the old town area exclusively. There's life outside the ring roads expanding to all directions, so in my opinion it's all about where you choose to reside. I personally haven't seen a farang loose "out of the getto" in few weeks, and am at a comfortable 30 minute ride from the city centre ???? Not gonna list pro's and con's as they've been already brought to attention, but instead I'll nudge original poster to see how he feels upon landing(or rolling with train / hopping out of the bus) here first time. When I did that first time ~18 years ago, I got the feeling "I'm home" - if that sorta feeling rings true, you oughtta investigate it ^^ 

[HuskerDo]

1 hour ago, jabis said:

Considering Chiang Mai is the second largest city in Thailand, it certainly feels quite small and homey. Sure it can be as expensive as BKK, if you only do your shopping in the malls and visit top-end(or "farang" chain) restaurants, but surely not a "farang ghetto" as some previous poster wrote, if you're not living and frequenting only the old town area exclusively. There's life outside the ring roads expanding to all directions, so in my opinion it's all about where you choose to reside. I personally haven't seen a farang loose "out of the getto" in few weeks, and am at a comfortable 30 minute ride from the city centre ???? Not gonna list pro's and con's as they've been already brought to attention, but instead I'll nudge original poster to see how he feels upon landing(or rolling with train / hopping out of the bus) here first time. When I did that first time ~18 years ago, I got the feeling "I'm home" - if that sorta feeling rings true, you oughtta investigate it ^^ 

Thank you jabis. Great post. I know that feeling. I felt it before. I hope to have the same feeling in CM.

 

[Airalee]

On 1/5/2019 at 2:06 AM, malibukid said:

only complaint, the high end audio scene sucks in CM.  have to fly to KL, SGN for the top shelf stuff i.e. Chord, Rega, Naim, Harbeth, ARC ect.

Chiang Mai has Rega, Naim, Harbeth and many other high end brands available (Levinson, Ayre, Bryston etc). If you want the ultra high end stuff, you don’t need to fly to KL or SGN as Bangkok has everything you can think of. (ARC, Chord, Boulder).  These are 2 of the systems I listened to in BKK.

 

 

[Lacessit]

7 hours ago, smotherb said:

Gee, now you are arguing semantics and giving your opinion. I simply gave mine, pay attention.  A farang ghetto to me is any place numerous farangs gather. Chiang Mai fits that description. I can live cheaper and better--in my opinion, and quite frankly, my opinion is what matters to me--in places where fewer farangs exist.

 

Again, you jump to conclusions. I do not prefer my own company, I enjoy the companionship of others, but they do not have to be Westerners.  In fact, only about half of my friends in Thailand are farang, and only a few of them are from my country. 

No, I'm saying you are wrong in a couple of your statements. I note you don't try to address my question on "general high costs". Your opinion may matter to you. It  matters little to me, and even less when you try to patronise with your "Gee" and "pay attention" shtick.

[smotherb]

18 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

No, I'm saying you are wrong in a couple of your statements. I note you don't try to address my question on "general high costs". Your opinion may matter to you. It  matters little to me, and even less when you try to patronise with your "Gee" and "pay attention" shtick.

Perhaps you fail to understand me. I certainly was not patronizing you; I would much rather criticize you, but I was being nice.

 

Let me recap for you; it may help  you understand.

 

This forum is about the pros and cons of Chaing Mai. I responded to post 3 which among other things said the  prices all over Thailand are the same, " except maybe Phuket or Samui "

 

My post 85 countered by saying other places with fewer farangs--not farang ghettos--are cheaper than Chaing Mai. Then I gave my opinion of the pros and cons of Chiang Mai.

 

Your post 123  took exception to my use of the term Farang Ghetto to refer to Chaing Mai; which is simply semantics, but you rattled on about how expensive Australia is.

 

So, you missed the point and disagreed with my opinion and now say I was wrong.

 

You fail to understand that I do not care if you think I was wrong it was my assessment of the pros and cons of Chiang Mai.  Care for a lemon?

 

 

 

 

[HuskerDo]

5 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Perhaps you fail to understand me. I certainly was not patronizing you; I would much rather criticize you, but I was being nice.

 

Let me recap for you; it may help  you understand.

 

This forum is about the pros and cons of Chaing Mai. I responded to post 3 which among other things said the  prices all over Thailand are the same, " except maybe Phuket or Samui "

 

My post 85 countered by saying other places with fewer farangs--not farang ghettos--are cheaper than Chaing Mai. Then I gave my opinion of the pros and cons of Chiang Mai.

 

Your post 123  took exception to my use of the term Farang Ghetto to refer to Chaing Mai; which is simply semantics, but you rattled on about how expensive Australia is.

 

So, you missed the point and disagreed with my opinion and now say I was wrong.

 

You fail to understand that I do not care if you think I was wrong it was my assessment of the pros and cons of Chiang Mai.  Care for a lemon?

 

 

 

 

If no one else wants it I'll claim that lemon (unless that phrase has some meaning that I'd rather not be involved with). ???? 

 

[canthai55]

Been here 15 years. Lived from Songkla to Phuket to Krabi to Hua Hin to Rayong to Lop Buri to Udon Thani. Good cross section.

Chiang Mai has the most friendly people - in general - by far.

If you do not work, how bad is a 30 minute drive into town ? Put a great stereo in your ride and sing your way to the moat.

For me - who live 25km out from the Superhiway, I awake and drink coffee in my garden, surrounded by bird song and the people off to work. Eat out of our garden, cook all the western food I want on my BBQ purchased from Quik Fire years ago.

Mountains start right outside my door for great motorcycling.

Silence the NaySayers and decide for yourself.

This is what I want - and I found it.

Doom Gloom Whine Snivel Complain Denegrate Others - who needs it.

[BritManToo]

25 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

If you do not work, how bad is a 30 minute drive into town ?

If you walk, ride a scooter or bicycle, there's never any traffic jams.

I'm 12Km from the moat, 25 minutes on the bicycle.

 

As for 'foreigner prices' in Chiang Mai, Hom Coffee (inner moat near MoonMuang Soi 9) charges 25-30Bht for a hot coffee. Hard to beat that price anywhere.

Edited January 7, 2019 by BritManToo

[VillageIdiot]

18 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Whoa there. The definition of a ghetto is the part of a city, especially a slum area, where a minority group lives and has restricted freedom of movement.

There are farangs all over Chiang Mai, living in accommodation ranging from rooms to studio apartments to condo penthouses to very comfortable houses out in the suburbs. I'm sure they don't feel they are in a ghetto, except perhaps for the ones living on the edge.

Immigration long lines are readily solved with an agent. Granted the air quality is lousy between mid-February and the end of March; however, I can escape that with a short plane ride.

General high cost? What on earth are you talking about? The rent I pay here for one month would barely stretch to one week in Australia. The tenderloin pork steak, mussuman curry or seafood marinara I dine on here for about 150 baht would cost nearly five times as much, as an item on a pub menu in Australia. Granted, decent beef or wine are problematic. Plenty of inexpensive fruit and vegetables at any of the markets.

I enjoy my swimming at the condo, inexpensive golf ( including lady caddies ), and move freely between Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai as the whim takes me. Hardly the life of a ghetto dweller, and there are plenty like me.

I get that you may prefer your own company. I like a bit of space occasionally too. However, your post is bordering on misanthropy.

 

9 hours ago, smotherb said:

Gee, now you are arguing semantics and giving your opinion. I simply gave mine, pay attention.  A farang ghetto to me is any place numerous farangs gather. Chiang Mai fits that description. I can live cheaper and better--in my opinion, and quite frankly, my opinion is what matters to me--in places where fewer farangs exist.

 

Again, you jump to conclusions. I do not prefer my own company, I enjoy the companionship of others, but they do not have to be Westerners.  In fact, only about half of my friends in Thailand are farang, and only a few of them are from my country. 

You two might not be living in a "farang ghetto" but you are certainly posting in one.