Condo owner's deed for my exstension?

[keithet]

Went to Changwatana today. Was denied exstension and told to come back with house book of landlord. And her title or deed to the condo and her contract of purchase. I never heard of this. 

I had my lease and her id this has always worked before. 

Now my wife has to try to get another week day off. And try to get our landlord to give us a copy of house book. She already said no so don't know what to do. I had to do tm30 because she refused to go and do. I got a week to do or I'm leaving I guess or get a new condo in a week. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by keithet

[JackThompson]

Your only option is to move to somewhere your landlord will accommodate immigration's request or quit using Immigration to stay in Thailand until you can.  You could go out to Laos for a Non-O Visa - with a 1 year Multiple-Entry variant available in Savannakhet only (what I did). 

 

The only other alternative is to use an agent - who pays them off - which is why some immigration offices make up non-existent rules having nothing to do with your extension's validity in the first place - to drive up those payoffs. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by JackThompson

[jackdd]

Afaik there is no requirement to show the house book, or even just a rental contract. So the person at Chaengwattana made this up so that you will use an agent and they get money.

You could just try to go there again on another day, maybe there will be another person who doesn't make up this rule.

 

If the landlord doesn't want to give you the house book you can't really force him.

When you rent a place you should insist on a copy of the house book when signing the contract.

I wonder a bit that the landlord refuses to even give you a copy. Maybe it's not even his condo and he is renting it out illegally?

 

If you have a friend outside of Bangkok you could "move" (have your friend submit a TM30 for you) there and then apply for the extension at the immigration office there. Depending on the immigration office maybe it's enough if you just stay at a hotel, then you wouldn't need a friend.

[keithet]

1 hour ago, keithet said:

Went to Changwatana today. Was denied exstension and told to come back with house book of landlord. And her title or deed to the condo and her contract of purchase. I never heard of this. 

For my first 2 years I only showed lease agreement. Then 3 years ago I rented from a private owner and was asked for their id. Ever since then I provide lease and owner's id. I am so confused and upset

[keithet]

It was window L40 all the way to the left. Never had to use this officer before. Maybe because my 

Q number was 4th in line she was disappointed I wasn't with a agent. 

I did notice a lot of gift bags pilling up for maybe "new year" gifts from agents. 

No tips but shure a hell of a lot of brown paper bags.

Has anyone had to show their landlord's deed for the condo or housebook for a exstension before? 

Edited January 8, 2019 by keithet

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, keithet said:

Has anyone had to show their landlord's deed for the condo or housebook for a exstension before? 

Jomtien, based on marriage.  I got it, and they then said it was "too old" and have the landlord go to the amphoe for a new copy - which wasn't happening, and they knew it wouldn't be possible.  We call these "Unobtainium Landlord Docs."  That's why I'm on a Non-O-ME Visa. 

It's sad that the oversight at Chang Wattana has gone downhill, and they are running these "force to agent" scams there, too.   It used to be the one office that actually stuck to the published rules. 

 

But when the head of Imm tells a reporter that agents "fool" IOs with regard to the financials (just "forget" to check the seasoning for agent applications?), you know the score.  Now, this has happened at CW under his watch.

[robblok]

I had to show the landlords house book just for registering myself to the house after a trip.  I had to show copies of it not the original. 

[keithet]

Well it looks like it is a slim chance that my landlord will give me copies of the deed to her condo or purchase contract. She said she was informed that a forigner has no right to ask for these docs. I don't blame her it seems strange that a department such as immigration needs docs that pertains to the department of land affairs. 

I may be able to get a copy of the house book. 

Any one know of a agent that deals with Changwatana? I have all my paperwork and financial docs. They would only need to pay the extortion fee to the officer since I'm being asked for documents that will not be given to me. 

This is my 5th exstension based on marriage. I've never been asked for deeds and whatever. 

Only lease and owner's id. 

[jollyhangmon]

14 hours ago, keithet said:

It was window L40 all the way to the left. Never had to use this officer before. Maybe because my 

Q number was 4th in line she was disappointed I wasn't with a agent. 

I did notice a lot of gift bags pilling up for maybe "new year" gifts from agents. 

No tips but shure a hell of a lot of brown paper bags.

Has anyone had to show their landlord's deed for the condo or housebook for a exstension before? 

 

Well, landlords housebook (a.k.a. blue book) pages 1+2 plus their ID seems to be pretty common meanwhile in various locations ... dunno about Changwatana specifically though.

 

But at least the damn deed/chanote is nothing but chicanery to drive you to an agent as pointed out by Jack T. and plenty others before ... disgusting bottom feeders the whole ducking lot, nothing new either unfortunately ... 

[Ks45672]

18 hours ago, keithet said:

It was window L40 all the way to the left. Never had to use this officer before. Maybe because my 

Q number was 4th in line she was disappointed I wasn't with a agent. 

I did notice a lot of gift bags pilling up for maybe "new year" gifts from agents. 

No tips but shure a hell of a lot of brown paper bags.

Has anyone had to show their landlord's deed for the condo or housebook for a exstension before? 

I showed them my phone bill from true once and they accepted I lived there based on just that

 

[keithet]

I went to Changwatana yesterday Jan 8 with my wife for exstension based on marriage. Imagration officer told my wife in thai that we need our condo owner's deed to the condo and a sales contract??? and her house book. 

I always just gave a copy of lease and owner's id. 

Has this ever been requested before? The deed or any of it? 

I believe I've heard of house book before and wasn't shocked because I had to do a tm30 late because condo owner would not do. But my wife waited till we got home to tell me about the deed and sales contract because she new I would of got mad and want to talk to supervisor. 

She was right I was very mad. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by keithet

[jackdd]

Isn't one topic enough?

 

[keithet]

22 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Isn't one topic enough?

 

I was hoping one trip to immigration would be enough but I was wrong. It's also hard for my wife to get week days off let alone another one in a weeks time.  So forgive me if I posted another thread with a changed headline in hopes someone can put some sence to why a imagration office wants the renter to have a copy of the owner's title of the deed and financial contract. 

So sorry that changing the title bothers you. 

I just hope that a new title will make it more specific to possibly obtain some useful info or similar experiences other than 

"imagration is making it so I use a agent"

Edited January 9, 2019 by keithet

[onera1961]

5 hours ago, keithet said:

Any one know of a agent that deals with Changwatana? I have all my paperwork and financial docs. They would only need to pay the extortion fee to the officer since I'm being asked for documents that will not be given to me. 

Just politely tell the IO that your owner is not willing to give his house book and if he knows anybody who can help you. The IO will direct you to the right agent or he may quote a price right there. 

Edited January 9, 2019 by onera1961

[keithet]

3 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

Just politely tell the IO that your owner is not willing to give his house book and if he knows anybody who can help you. The IO will direct you to the right agent and may be it will be even cheaper. 

That sounds illegal. 

 

IO says "I can't approve you I need landlord's condo docs" knowing I probably can't get. So I say "I can't get how can I do? "

IO answers "no problem call this person " now I use this agent and that person gives the exact same documents that I have prepared and still with out deed but now approved! 

That has to be illegal! Be a good utube video "titled welcome to LOS, now get out! "

[Ks45672]

18 minutes ago, keithet said:

I was hoping one trip to immigration would be enough but I was wrong. It's also hard for my wife to get week days off let alone another one in a weeks time.  So forgive me if I posted another thread with a changed headline in hopes someone can put some sence to why a imagration office wants the renter to have a copy of the owner's title of the deed and financial contract. 

So sorry that changing the title bothers you. 

I just hope that a new title will make it more specific to possibly obtain some useful info or similar experiences other than 

"imagration is making it so I use a agent"

There is usually more than one way to satisfy this requirement 

 

If you go to your embassy with a rental agreement or utility bill and 1800thb or so they can make you a notarised certificate of residence which immigration  will accept 

 

Letter from your local police   will work too if you are on good enough terms with any of them to ask for a favour , immigration won't refuse once they see RTP headed paper saying "mr farang lives at condo xyz" etc

 

Aside from that, you can try again and hopefully get a different officer who will accept your rental agreement or bite the bullet and pay one of the agents to "fix it"  without much stress ????

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

On 1/8/2019 at 10:23 AM, keithet said:

Was denied exstension and told to come back with house book of landlord. And her title or deed to the condo and her contract of purchase. I never heard of this. 

I had my lease and her id this has always worked before.

 

What was your extension based on?

 

For the last year Jomtien have been asking for the Chanote and 'Blue Book' to do my daughter's and wife's Ed and Guardian extensions but for my Retirement extension they are happy with only the Chanote (or a TOT bill) to prove address. (Different IOs at different counters)

 

Fortunately I own the condo.

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Ks45672 said:

There is usually more than one way to satisfy this requirement 

 

If you go to your embassy with a rental agreement or utility bill and 1800thb or so they can make you a notarised certificate of residence which immigration  will accept 

 

Letter from your local police   will work too if you are on good enough terms with any of them to ask for a favour , immigration won't refuse once they see RTP headed paper saying "mr farang lives at condo xyz" etc

 

Aside from that, you can try again and hopefully get a different officer who will accept your rental agreement or bite the bullet and pay one of the agents to "fix it"  without much stress ????

 

 

Will immigration accept immigration's own 'Letter of Residence'??

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

for my Retirement extension they are happy with only the Chanote (or a TOT bill) to prove address. (Different IOs at different counters)

Been using the TOT bill for many years, never an issue.

[LongTimeLurker]

21 hours ago, keithet said:

Has anyone had to show their landlord's deed for the condo or housebook for a exstension before?

For the last year at least at Jomtien, for Ed and Guardian extensions, not for Retirement extensions.

[keithet]

15 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

 

What was your extension based on?

 

For the last year Jomtien have been asking for the Chanote and 'Blue Book' to do my daughter's and wife's Ed and Guardian extensions but for my Retirement extension they are happy with only the Chanote (or a TOT bill) to prove address. (Different IOs at different counters)

 

Fortunately I own the condo.

Marriage 

And at Changwatana 

[blackcab]

I have an extension of stay based on work. The company I work for owns the business property, so there is no lease agreement from a landlord. I have had to supply a copy of the building chanote and sales contract for the last 3 years.

 

Just so you know, the copy of the chanote must be reduced to A4 sized paper - immigration will not accept full sized copies as they do not fit neatly in the bundle of documents they file. The sales contract is called a ทด๑๓ which you will find examples of if you search on the internet.

 

Your landlord is just being cautious. They really don't want to give out signed copies of their land ownership documents as they probably fear fraud and loss of their property.

 

From immigration's point of view, they have found that a lease contract alone is worthless, as they can be faked in a matter of a few minutes. By insisting on a copy of the chanote and sale document they are much less likely to be presented with forgeries, as copies of these documents, especially the sale contract, are a lot harder to get hold of. Most Thai people will give a copy of their ID card and house book for multiple reasons, but they won't often give copies of their land documents.

 

Every so often the requirements are increased. A lot of the time this is because a number of applicants try and game the system.

[Ks45672]

38 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Will immigration accept immigration's own 'Letter of Residence'??

It would be entertaining either way! ????

[keithet]

12 minutes ago, blackcab said:

I have an extension of stay based on business. The company I work for owns the business property, so there is no lease agreement from a landlord. I have had to supply a copy of the building chanote and sales contract for the last 3 years.

 

Just so you know, the copy of the chanote must be reduced to A4 sized paper - immigration will not accept full sized copies as they do not fit neatly in the bundle of documents they file. The sales contract is called a ทด๑๓ which you will find examples of if you search on the internet.

 

Your landlord is just being cautious. They really don't want to give out signed copies of their land ownership documents as they probably fear fraud and loss of their property.

 

From immigration's point of view, they have found that a lease contract alone is worthless, as they can be faked in a matter of a few minutes. By insisting on a copy of the chanote and sale document they are much less likely to be presented with forgeries, as copies of these documents, especially the sale contract, are a lot harder to get hold of. Most Thai people will give a copy of their ID card and house book for multiple reasons, but they won't often give copies of their land documents.

 

Every so often the requirements are increased. A lot of the time this is because a number of applicants try and game the system.

Thank you for a great reason of the "why" of things 

[keithet]

1 minute ago, keithet said:

Just so you know, the copy of the chanote must be reduced to A4 sized paper - immigration will not accept full sized copies as they do not fit neatly in the bundle of documents they file. The sales contract is called a ทด๑๓ which you will find examples of if you search on the internet.

If my wife convinces our landlord to give us the chanote I hope she reduces it to a4 I don't think the officer mentioned it. 

But if I get a signed copy of the chanote I will want to keep it for the futer exstensions so I could take it to a photo copy store and make a4 print out to give and be able to show the one given to me. 

Is that what you do? 

[blackcab]

It wasn't mentioned to us either, so we had to leave Chaeng Wattana immigration office, get the chanote again, photocopy reduce it to A4 and then get a company director to sign the A4 sized copy - and then take the signed A4 version back to immigration (from the centre of Bangkok).

 

Immigration want a signed copy every year. You might get away with a colour photocopy of last years document, it might be worth a try. This is why signatures are often done in blue ink - to avoid repetitive photocopies of the same document - often used as a way to game the system.

 

We provide freshly signed documents every year to avoid refusals and repeat visits (I have a few unsigned A4 copies of the chanote and sale contract ready to be signed and used each year).

[keithet]

11 minutes ago, blackcab said:

It wasn't mentioned to us either, so we had to leave Chaeng Wattana immigration office, get the chanote again, photocopy reduce it to A4 and then get a company director to sign the A4 sized copy - and then take the signed A4 version back to immigration (from the centre of Bangkok).

 

Immigration want a signed copy every year. You might get away with a colour photocopy of last years document, it might be worth a try. This is why signatures are often done in blue ink - to avoid repetitive photocopies of the same document - often used as a way to game the system.

 

We provide freshly signed documents every year to avoid refusals and repeat visits (I have a few unsigned A4 copies of the chanote and sale contract ready to be signed and used each year).

I doubt it will be color, if we get it at all. 

[blackcab]

The copy will be black and white, but the signature might be in blue ink.

[keithet]

2 minutes ago, blackcab said:

The copy will be black and white, but the signature might be in blue ink.

Ok black and white reduced to a4 and signed with Blue ink 

Right? 

[blackcab]

That's what we have to do.