13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

What consequences?

How do you know?

I don't know that soon a beautiful woman won't be banging on my bedroom door demanding uncomplicated sex.

I don't know if Mrs baboon would mind too much if I knock her about a bit.

I don't know that the earth isn't flat.

However I won't be taking the gamble on my being wrong.

 

So this is it, now? Support Brexit because you don't know for sure that it will be a catastrophe? Forget that bit about the extra NHS money? Forget that 'Easiest deal in history'? Forget the "No downside"? Forget that Brexiteers weren't exactly scrambling for the PM's job? Forget that they aren't even trying to send a consistent message anymore?

 

There are plentiful reasons to resent the EU. But given the shysters in the UK and what passes for their objections, I'll stay in, thanks.

10 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

It would indeed be against the best interests of the British people to leave without a deal or leave at all as many more now seem to think.

 

But it certainly isn't in their best interests to leave with a crap deal that even most of the Tory party don't want.

 

May and he ramshackle third rate cabinet keep flogging this dead horse and apparently have no clue what they'll do when they're defeated in parliament.

 

They've ran the clock down deliberately to frustrate alternatives and try and force acceptance of this piss-poor deal. 

 

The only sensible decision is to withdraw Article 50, and put it to the people either in a referendum or General Election. But they are much to selfish, arrogant and stupid to do that.

What is worse is they are letting Corbyn in the back door...

 

   12 hours ago,  Baerboxer said: 

It would indeed be against the best interests of the British people to leave without a deal or leave at all as many more now seem to think.

 

But it certainly isn't in their best interests to leave with a crap deal that even most of the Tory party don't want.

 

May and he ramshackle third rate cabinet keep flogging this dead horse and apparently have no clue what they'll do when they're defeated in parliament.

 

They've ran the clock down deliberately to frustrate alternatives and try and force acceptance of this piss-poor deal. 

 

The only sensible decision is to withdraw Article 50, and put it to the people either in a referendum or General Election. But they are much to selfish, arrogant and stupid to do that.

Basil B   "What is worse is they are letting Corbyn in the back door..."

 

I really don't think you should worry, Corbyn isn't going to win any election, middle England - as instructed by the Tory Tabloids - won't vote for him. Further if he forces his party to go into an election on a pro Brexit platform he will get totally destroyed. I used to support the LP till Scotland found a decent alternative, but Corbyn is an electoral liability, even his young supporters are beginning to get pissed off by him.

1 hour ago, Nigel Garvie said:

 

   12 hours ago,  Baerboxer said: 

It would indeed be against the best interests of the British people to leave without a deal or leave at all as many more now seem to think.

 

But it certainly isn't in their best interests to leave with a crap deal that even most of the Tory party don't want.

 

May and he ramshackle third rate cabinet keep flogging this dead horse and apparently have no clue what they'll do when they're defeated in parliament.

 

They've ran the clock down deliberately to frustrate alternatives and try and force acceptance of this piss-poor deal. 

 

The only sensible decision is to withdraw Article 50, and put it to the people either in a referendum or General Election. But they are much to selfish, arrogant and stupid to do that.

Basil B   "What is worse is they are letting Corbyn in the back door..."

 

I really don't think you should worry, Corbyn isn't going to win any election, middle England - as instructed by the Tory Tabloids - won't vote for him. Further if he forces his party to go into an election on a pro Brexit platform he will get totally destroyed. I used to support the LP till Scotland found a decent alternative, but Corbyn is an electoral liability, even his young supporters are beginning to get pissed off by him.

Your definitely wrong on one point. The Labour Party have made a monumental mistake in leaning towards a remain policy, in complete contrast to the majority of Labour voters.

 What will be interesting to see, is in the event of a G.E. will Labour supporters put their loyalty to Labour,over their desire to leave the E.u.

Of course now that Calais port has said there will be no problems with transport between UK and Europe after March 31 the Europhile losers look for other “fear mongering” bunch of rats !


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9 hours ago, baboon said:

I don't know that soon a beautiful woman won't be banging on my bedroom door demanding uncomplicated sex.

I don't know if Mrs baboon would mind too much if I knock her about a bit.

I don't know that the earth isn't flat.

1. I've had happen plenty of times.

2. She's probably had a few beatings before, and could manage a few more.

3. You're probably right.

 

So wrong 2 out of 3, that doesn't say much for your remainer views.

All this talk about wanting to remain, and not a word of the rioting in France anywhere.

(Alleged) D notice on reporting in the UK.

There's some serious 'Brexit' manipulation of the news.

 

France is burning, but Remaining is all that counts to the British government.

https://www.facebook.com/NyeBevanNews/videos/606534989797044/UzpfSTY1MjAzOTgzMjoxMDE1NjMzNTU0NTU2OTgzMw/

Edited January 11, 20197 yr by BritManToo

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

What consequences?

How do you know?

 

Project fear is in full flood with more and more BS.

You mean the fear mongering that was used by the pro-brexit campaign, with nothing but utter BS?

17 hours ago, Basil B said:

What is worse is they are letting Corbyn in the back door...

He couldn't possibly be worse than May.

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

All this talk about wanting to remain, and not a word of the rioting in France anywhere.

(Alleged) D notice on reporting in the UK.

There's some serious 'Brexit' manipulation of the news.

 

France is burning, but Remaining is all that counts to the British government.

https://www.facebook.com/NyeBevanNews/videos/606534989797044/UzpfSTY1MjAzOTgzMjoxMDE1NjMzNTU0NTU2OTgzMw/

Those French can get a bit emotional. Local folklore, don't worry too much about it, it is not like 1789.

12 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Those French can get a bit emotional. Local folklore, don't worry too much about it, it is not like 1789.

More like 1984 though.

I am still waiting for a Brexiteer to come and explain, in some detail, how the UK will be better off after Brexit. And i mean Economically, not 'we will get control back'. We never had control, ever. A few elected idiots have some, but they rarely have any more sense than the man in the street anyway. Last 2 years have proved that, ministers with no knowledge of their jobs having rings run around them by EU bureaucrats.

 

To paraphrase Churchill, The EU is the worst form of trade association, except for all the others!

 

If a car breaks down on an unknown road, you have 2 choices, fix it or walk off into the unknown ......

 

 

6 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

He couldn't possibly be worse than May.

Well thanks to the remoaners, it’s possible that we will soon find out.

7 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Well thanks to the remoaners, it’s possible that we will soon find out.

Why do you keep on calling the UK people who wish to remain within EU by such an ugly and dismissive name as "remoaners"? 

 

 

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

Why do you keep on calling the UK people who wish to remain within EU by such an ugly and dismissive name as "remoaners"? 

 

 

 

 I think it’s quite appropriate for those who not only refuse to accept the Democratic decision of the majority, but also want to undermine the people’s vote.

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

Well thanks to the remoaners, it’s possible that we will soon find out.

Just a point of process here.

1) There can only be an election if May looses a vote of confidence - there is no sign of this happening, the DUP have said they would support her.

2) Corbyn is a leaver - always has been, he's not going to win a GE anyway, but if he goes into an election still supporting Brexit a recent YouGov poll shows him loosing very badly indeed. 

3) You can't  thank remainers or leavers for election results, people vote for different parties on many different issues, and most of them appear utterly sick of the whole Brexit mess. There are plenty of LP leavers mainly among their lunatic far left fringe, and plenty of Tory remainers.

Edited January 11, 20197 yr by Nigel Garvie

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 I think it’s quite appropriate for those who not only refuse to accept the Democratic decision of the majority, but also want to undermine the people’s vote.

So, what you are saying is "If we children don't get what we want, we'll be calling all of your other people by low grade names!"

 

That's not democracy. 

57 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

...

2) Corbyn is a leaver - always has been, he's not going to win a GE anyway, but if he goes into an election still supporting Brexit a recent YouGov poll shows him loosing very badly indeed. 

3...

Where Corbyn could win is if we leave in some sort of chaos and it all goes very badly. He will say "this isn't the way I would have left"

Parliament disintegrates, we have a general election.

I can see him getting voted in just to get back at the Tories as they take the flak for a bad, disorganized Brexit. Not that his would have been any better, but he didn't give us the one we got.

3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

So, what you are saying is "If we children don't get what we want, we'll be calling all of your other people by low grade names!"

 

That's not democracy. 

"Plebiscites are exercises not in democracy but in crude majoritarianism. "

Just now, tebee said:

"Plebiscites are exercises not in democracy but in crude majoritarianism. "

Those folks, who are so keen to show their power are really just few people.

They represent the sill 5-7% of the people, who once thought it would be so cool to be against everything. 

50 minutes ago, oilinki said:

So, what you are saying is "If we children don't get what we want, we'll be calling all of your other people by low grade names!"

 

That's not democracy. 

No, that's remainers.

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No, that's remainers.

A second referendum would not be undemocratic even though it would most likely would see a shift just sufficient to produce a Remain vote.

 

Demographic turnover alone has moved the UK to a Remain majority. Given the extreme age-gradient in voting on 2016 (the steepest ever in a UK-wide vote), the number of old Leavers who have died since 23/6/16 and their replacement with newly 18 Remainers is enough on its own to change the result. No one even needs to have changed their minds since 2016, though surveys suggest that some have done so.

 

More pertinently, having a vote that compares two realities: the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement and Remaining in the EU, is a far more valid exercise in democracy than a vote in which, perhaps not surprisingly, thought that having cake and eating it was a good (and feasible) idea.

18 minutes ago, tebee said:

A second referendum would not be undemocratic even though it would most likely would see a shift just sufficient to produce a Remain vote.

 

Demographic turnover alone has moved the UK to a Remain majority. Given the extreme age-gradient in voting on 2016 (the steepest ever in a UK-wide vote), the number of old Leavers who have died since 23/6/16 and their replacement with newly 18 Remainers is enough on its own to change the result. No one even needs to have changed their minds since 2016, though surveys suggest that some have done so.

 

More pertinently, having a vote that compares two realities: the negotiated Withdrawal Agreement and Remaining in the EU, is a far more valid exercise in democracy than a vote in which, perhaps not surprisingly, thought that having cake and eating it was a good (and feasible) idea.

Another deluded undertaker.

8 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Just a point of process here.

1) There can only be an election if May looses a vote of confidence - there is no sign of this happening, the DUP have said they would support her.

2) Corbyn is a leaver - always has been, he's not going to win a GE anyway, but if he goes into an election still supporting Brexit a recent YouGov poll shows him loosing very badly indeed. 

3) You can't  thank remainers or leavers for election results, people vote for different parties on many different issues, and most of them appear utterly sick of the whole Brexit mess. There are plenty of LP leavers mainly among their lunatic far left fringe, and plenty of Tory remainers.

 

to 1) or if May calls a snappy herself

 

to 2) wouldn't offer many farthings for polls produced in UK anymore,

        would like to see that scenario assessed by non UK political expert commentators

 

to 3)  yes, so it appears

 

9 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

 I think it’s quite appropriate for those who not only refuse to accept the Democratic decision of the majority, but also want to undermine the people’s vote.

It was a democratic opinion poll. Parliament is not bound to act upon it. Have you worked how our representative democracy works yet?

54 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It was a democratic opinion poll. Parliament is not bound to act upon it. Have you worked how our representative democracy works yet?

I for one, am not prepared to go round in circles yet again on this (IMO) diversion tactic.

 

We've been through it time and time again ☹️.

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I for one, am not prepared to go round in circles yet again on this (IMO) diversion tactic.

 

We've been through it time and time again ☹️.

 

thread is going Thai DD,

do as in LoS - rote learning

 

 

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I for one, am not prepared to go round in circles yet again on this (IMO) diversion tactic.

 

We've been through it time and time again ☹️.

Just stating facts. At least one contributor seems to have trouble assimilating these. I'm not justifying anything; merely stating how things work in the U.K. No point howling at the moon!

 

One thing's for sure, we will all more careful who we choose as MPs in future!

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Just stating facts. At least one contributor seems to have trouble assimilating these. I'm not justifying anything; merely stating how things work in the U.K. No point howling at the moon!

 

One thing's for sure, we will all more careful who we choose as MPs in future!

I suspect, only at the next election - when voters take notice of how their MPs acted - compared to how their constituents voted.....

 

After that, it will depend on what happens in the close future re. brexit, and just how much this charade has annoyed voters!

 

Will there be a resurrection of UKIP, or will even more voters not bother to vote as they know there's no point?

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I suspect, only at the next election - when voters take notice of how their MPs acted - compared to how their constituents voted.....

 

After that, it will depend on what happens in the close future re. brexit, and just how much this charade has annoyed voters!

 

Will there be a resurrection of UKIP, or will even more voters not bother to vote as they know there's no point?

You still don't seem to understand this crucial point. You choose an MP who you believe will act in your best interest. That may not be what you say. Think about that. Please. I'm not saying it is right or wrong but that is how the system is designed to work.

 

Taken to the limit you indicate that we should vote directly on everything. Easily achieved technically. I am happy to appoint someone to act on my behalf who has all the resources and back up to take sensible decisions; a bit like a company director.