Brexit bedlam - May's EU divorce deal crushed by 230 votes in parliament

[welovesundaysatspace]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

is May's Plan-B due tomorrow morning UK time,

or afternoon?

When will parliament start discussing?

 

A plan B that is built around a bilateral treaty between the UK and Ireland. More castles in the sky. They really didn’t learn anything. When will they start debating realistic options rather than all those fantasy products?

[7by7]

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

...but thanks to you(r side) there's more than just one ????

 

(Take a look at the last ever scene in 'Dads Army' for an idea of what you are currently doing)

I can't find just that scene, so here's the whole episode. Unfortunately whoever posted it cut the top and bottom off to make it fit into a 16:9 format and the sound is terrible. The scene to which you refer starts at 43:11.

 

 

But has a group of actors, albeit in a highly successful and enjoyable sit com, toasting the real Home Guard of the Second World War got to do with Brexit or opposition to same?

 

Are you seriously comparing the EU to the WW2 Wehrmacht and Rees-Mogg and his ilk to all that stands between us and a sort of Nazi dictatorship?

[7by7]

19 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

is May's Plan-B due tomorrow morning UK time,

or afternoon?

When will parliament start discussing?

 

May is putting it off as long as possible to give her as much time as possible to persuade her party, and others, to back it. It will be debated and voted upon on the 29th January.

 

Brexit deal: Theresa May takes maximum time available over plan B as debate scheduled for January 29

[Grouse]

Andrew Marr today is definitely worthwhile viewing

 

Liam Fox; what a useless twit

 

Raab, Benn and Soubry trying to find common ground was excellent

 

Kier Starmer or whatever his name is prattled on and said precisely nowt. Berk!

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

No one has banned the UK from importing their plants directly from Africa. The Netherlands as well as the UK operate in the EU under the same conditions. What you are describing is fantasy.

Good point,perhaps we don’t possess any forward looking business people.

 But to go back to my original post, why are E.U official therefore threatening our ability to obtain these products? Couple this with reports stating that France will, in the event of Brexit,try and make it very difficult to transit through France.

Threats, Threats,Threats keep being sent from the E.U. Are they so thick,that they do not understand, that their attitude is now making more remainers switch to supporting Brexit.

[nontabury]

4 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

I recently visited on several occasions a friend who was in the Royal Surrey County Hospital in Guildford. Obviously I didn't see very ancillary worker there, but most of those I did see, judging by their accents, were east European. 

 

Obviously, though, it will depend upon the demographics of where you live.

 

A tier 2 visa is for a general work visa; it has replaced most other forms of work visa. I did post a link to the guidance earlier; here it is again.

 

The main issue is that, apart from nurses, medical radiographers, paramedics and secondary school teachers in certain subjects, the minimum salary required to obtain this visa is £30,000 per year.

Are you 100% sure,that when Brexit is finally achieved, IF there is shown to be a shortfall in suitable staff to fill those vacancies. That the government will not make provisions to create an exception.

If so I think you are wrong,because then it will be OUR government that will be in control.

[damascase]

14 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Good point,perhaps we don’t possess any forward looking business people.

 But to go back to my original post, why are E.U official therefore threatening our ability to obtain these products? Couple this with reports stating that France will, in the event of Brexit,try and make it very difficult to transit through France.

Threats, Threats,Threats keep being sent from the E.U. Are they so thick,that they do not understand, that their attitude is now making more remainers switch to supporting Brexit.

‘Threats, threats, threats’?? What about ‘lies, lies, lies’? Nobody is threatening you; as I said earlier, it is common knowledge and understanding that a no deal Brexit will introduce Customs procedures on both sides, probably duties too, and these will inevitably result in delays compared with the current situation. If you want to see that as a threat: yes, it will - at least initially- have a negative effect on the flow of goods, but it is a threat of your own making. Again, don’t blame the EU for the shambles you are in.

 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

I can't find just that scene, so here's the whole episode. Unfortunately whoever posted it cut the top and bottom off to make it fit into a 16:9 format and the sound is terrible. The scene to which you refer starts at 43:11.

 

 

But has a group of actors, albeit in a highly successful and enjoyable sit com, toasting the real Home Guard of the Second World War got to do with Brexit or opposition to same?

 

Are you seriously comparing the EU to the WW2 Wehrmacht and Rees-Mogg and his ilk to all that stands between us and a sort of Nazi dictatorship?

For a minute there I though you were serious in admitting that you hadn't a clue as to what this implied.

[Loiner]

27 minutes ago, damascase said:

‘Threats, threats, threats’?? What about ‘lies, lies, lies’? Nobody is threatening you; as I said earlier, it is common knowledge and understanding that a no deal Brexit will introduce Customs procedures on both sides, probably duties too, and these will inevitably result in delays compared with the current situation. If you want to see that as a threat: yes, it will - at least initially- have a negative effect on the flow of goods, but it is a threat of your own making. Again, don’t blame the EU for the shambles you are in.

 

The shambles we are currently in is purely internal UK politics. It has been caused by the Remainer lobby and its continuation of Project Fear and the hysteria of the losers. Had Cameron pulled the plug on 24th June 2016, told the EU "The letter is in the post and I've stopped all the contribution cheques." we would not have this shambles.
By no means is it common knowledge that there will be any new duties or delays at ports or airports. The govt has eventually got its finger out and is making preparations for the inevitable. HMRC and Calais port CEO have both now made assurances that the Remainer promised chaos will not be the case.
Any CEO who says his company's flow of goods will be impacted by Brexit needs to be sacked. They have all known it was coming and have had three years to prepare their supply chains. To not have plans in place at this stage, for any eventuality, is the height of incompetence and they should not be running businesses. 

[damascase]

5 minutes ago, Loiner said:

..............
Any CEO who says his company's flow of goods will be impacted by Brexit needs to be sacked. They have all known it was coming and have had three years to prepare their supply chains. To not have plans in place at this stage, for any eventuality, is the height of incompetence and they should not be running businesses. 

Talking about ‘the height of incompetence’: wouldn’t that be much more applicable to the UK government that, by now, had three years to prepare and still has absolutely nothing in place to prepare for Brexit? Isn’t it rather gross to now blame UK companies for not being prepared, while the government has - and still is - not been able to tell them what exactly to prepare for?

[welovesundaysatspace]

20 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The shambles we are currently in is purely internal UK politics. It has been caused by the Remainer lobby and its continuation of Project Fear and the hysteria of the losers.

It’s been caused by the leave campaign and David Cameron setting wrong expectations, by making promises that could never be delivered. 

 

20 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Had Cameron pulled the plug on 24th June 2016, told the EU "The letter is in the post and I've stopped all the contribution cheques." we would not have this shambles.

You would have, on top of the shambles, a lawsuit against you for not fulfilling your financial obligations with the EU. 

 

20 minutes ago, Loiner said:

HMRC and Calais port CEO have both now made assurances that the Remainer promised chaos will not be the case.

I want to see those assurances. That would be pretty foolish to give anyone such assurances. 

 

20 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Any CEO who says his company's flow of goods will be impacted by Brexit needs to be sacked. They have all known it was coming and have had three years to prepare their supply chains. To not have plans in place at this stage, for any eventuality, is the height of incompetence and they should not be running businesses. 

...says someone who has operated business of exactly how many billions? 

[welovesundaysatspace]

9 hours ago, nontabury said:

Not the largest of industries admittedly, though the importance of the  flower industry to Holland, should not be underestimated. Yet E.U officials are now threatening, that in the event of a no deal, supplies will be difficult to obtain, and those that do come through will be significantly more expensive.

Please show me where EU officials were threatening.  

 

[Basil B]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Liam Fox; what a useless twit

Was he not the one who said everybody will be queuing to trade with us... 

and given the job to sign them up who had to admit last week he has not one country signed up, not even a Banana Republic that wants to sell us the trinkets we sold them.

[Basil B]

4 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

is May's Plan-B due tomorrow morning UK time,

or afternoon?

When will parliament start discussing?

 

Monday, Late start: 2:30 onward...

 

Main Chamber:

2.30 pm	Oral questions Home Office (including Topical Questions)
	Ministerial statement European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 - Mrs Theresa May
	Legislation Healthcare (International Arrangements) Bill - remaining stages
	Adjournment Future use and sale of Coy's site at Seaton Delaval - Mr Ronnie Campbell

[tebee]

 

[AlexRich]

18 hours ago, rixalex said:

 

 

Just like to know how you are able to state as a fact that the will of the people is to remain?

As for "this fiasco". Firstly, "this fiasco" has been largely created by people of a similar mindset to you, in Parliament, who promised to enact the will of the people, but who have being doing everything they can to prevent it.

Secondly, the idea that another referendum will in any way resolve "this fiasco", is fantasy. If remain wins, leave will just follow the example set by remain, and refuse to accept the result. If leave wins, we're back where we started. Parliament will still favour remain and as remain MPs are often quoted as saying, just because you lose a vote doesn't mean you stop fighting for what you believe in. More feet dragging, stalling and delaying would ensue.


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Wouldn't bother me in the slightest if leavers still wanted to leave after a vote ... they are a dying breed, quite literally.

 

 

[AlexRich]

17 hours ago, sanemax said:

Yes, with the money that the U.K will save , not giving all our money to other Countries , we will be able to invest in education 

Except that you first have to deal with the lower GDP growth post brexit, that more than wipes out any saving. It was a vote to be poorer.

[keemapoot]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

Except that you first have to deal with the lower GDP growth post brexit, that more than wipes out any saving. It was a vote to be poorer.

And a a vote to be less relevant to global supply chains, thus, a vote for less influence in global trade, banking, etc.. Yes, smaller, poorer, and less influential. 

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, keemapoot said:

And a a vote to be less relevant to global supply chains, thus, a vote for less influence in global trade, banking, etc.. Yes, smaller, poorer, and less influential. 

Yes, but once we've built the gunboats and re-established the East India Company we'll be sailing the high seas again and negotiating trade deals around the world by threatening our new trade partners with gunboats and troops, just like the good old days. Taking back control, so to speak. 

 

 

[aright]

31 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Wouldn't bother me in the slightest if leavers still wanted to leave after a vote ... they are a dying breed, quite literally.

 

 

No more dying than the future of the EU which is on a slippery slope being crushed by globalism, overweening EU control,  youth unemployment, mass immigration, the rise of far right wing parties. and political and social disenchantment. Weren't we told Mr Macron was to be the savior of France. All I can see is the French economy and Paris burning and the Southern States without 2 euros to rub together. Germany's doing alright however.

[welovesundaysatspace]

34 minutes ago, aright said:

No more dying than the future of the EU which is on a slippery slope being crushed by globalism, overweening EU control,  youth unemployment, mass immigration, the rise of far right wing parties. and political and social disenchantment. Weren't we told Mr Macron was to be the savior of France. All I can see is the French economy and Paris burning and the Southern States without 2 euros to rub together. Germany's doing alright however.

You forgot global warming, an aging society and digtization. 

[aright]

6 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

You forgot global warming, an aging society and digtization. 

Be fair I covered global warming with Paris burning. ????

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, aright said:

Be fair I covered global warming with Paris burning. ????

And let’s not forget Gaza. 

[Loiner]

Talking about ‘the height of incompetence’: wouldn’t that be much more applicable to the UK government that, by now, had three years to prepare and still has absolutely nothing in place to prepare for Brexit? Isn’t it rather gross to now blame UK companies for not being prepared, while the government has - and still is - not been able to tell them what exactly to prepare for?

The Remainer lobby of the govt bears a large responsibility for much of this.
Businesses who are clutching onto the hope of continued cheap labour and option to move production into EU bear their own. Those who did not make preparations, but hoped the CBI lobby would save their status quo, served them right.


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[rixalex]

19 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

How are you able to state the opposite?

 

I didn't.

[Loiner]

...says someone who has operated business of exactly how many billions? 

Not only Cameron made the promise. The current parliament did too with the withdrawal bill

We owe the EU nothing if we Leave.

Go look for the assurances yourself. They are easy to find.

Obviously more billions than you ever have.


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[JAG]

45 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And let’s not forget Gaza. 

What has a retired professional footballer from the North East of England, wh unfortunately appears to suffer from an alcohol problem, got to do with all this? 

[rixalex]

21 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

No one is refusing “to accept the result”. There is no clear result and none that could be implemented.

 

Over a million people IS a very clear result. Leaving the EU could easily have been implemented by now. Parliament doesn't want to. That's the problem.

[rixalex]

21 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

No one is refusing “to accept the result”. There is no clear result and none that could be implemented. That a second referendum would provide, so it would be difficult for anyone to demand another vote.

 

You're back in fantasyland, imagining that another referendum is going to solve anything. Of course there will be demands for another vote on the back of a second referedum. Why wouldn't there? There were promises to abide by the decision of the 2016 vote. You want to see those promises broken. Fine. But don't expect the outcome of the second referendum, should it happen, and whichever side wins, be respected either. Cherry picking which referendums get enacted and which don't, won't wash.

[evadgib]

10 hours ago, Basil B said:

Was he not the one who said everybody will be queuing to trade with us... 

and given the job to sign them up who had to admit last week he has not one country signed up, not even a Banana Republic that wants to sell us the trinkets we sold them.

Puzzling, given hardly a week has passed in which HMG in general and his dept in particular has issued a plethora of statements suggesting the opposite.

I haven't posted any in a while for obvious reasons.