U.S. Social Security International Direct Deposit (IDD) Update

[Pib]

This may be some good news for folks whose Social Security benefit/pension payment going to Bangkok Bank is not being sent/received in ACH "IAT" format (like one of my family members) which meant beginning 1 Apr 19 any payment/transfer not in IAT format would be rejected by Bangkok Bank as talked about in several other threads over the last 6 to 9 months.   

 

I just checked the SSA operating instructions (i.e., what they call POMS) website regarding the International Direct Deposit (IDD) for Thailand and as of 23 Jan 19 the regulation has been updated/replaced the original 5 Nov 18 version.  A weblink to the reg is provided below.   The update now says payments must go to Thai baht accounts which is a major change.  

 

The original 5 Nov 18 version said IDD SS payments sent to Thailand must be into "Foreign Currency accounts" or what Thai banks call a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) account.   Or said another way US Dollars would be sent to and maintained in a FCD account which means a recipient would need to open a FCD account in order to sign-up for IDD.  Plus FCDs accounts have a different fee schedule, minimum monthly balance required to avoid a monthly account maintenance fee, limitation on which branches can be used to withdraw money, and variety of other possible negatives depending on the individual.

 

I still haven't seen any guidance from the Manila SSA office or the Baltimore Int'l SSA Office regarding "actual IDD implementation."   I mean guidance announcing IDD for Thailand is now officially open for enrollment...what Thai banks are participating...what restrictions might be on the account...here's the sign-up form to use....here's the specific enrollment instructions...etc.  Hopefully soon.  

 

Maybe actual implementation has been delayed because SSA determined requiring an FCD account was too problematic during their Thailand IDD testing phase over the last few months and they have now switched back to requiring a Thai baht account, but needed to update the governing operating instruction along with coordinating with the US Treasury.  Who knows.

 

Time to ping Manila SSA Office (again)...see how long it takes to get a response....ask for their latest IDD guidance...sign-up form...etc.   But I bet we are getting very close to SS IDD going online for Thailand which will be good.

 

Below is the weblink to the regulation (it's short) and a partial quote/snapshot from it stating IDD payments will be made to Thai baht accounts where before it said Foreign Currency accounts.  

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402419   

 

 

 

[tutsiwarrior]

most of us get our SSA payments sent to the NYC Bangkok Bank branch in USD then transferred to Thailand in THB where it appears in our Bangkok Bank account in THB...the concern was with the IAT transfer format after April 2019 which can be clarified by Ms Supatra at the BBK Bank main office for individual accounts...I fail to understand how FCD accounts in Thailand relate to this scenario...

 

 

[ubonjoe]

I guess the first thing we will need to see is the direct deposit form for Thailand to appear here. https://www.ssa.gov/forms/ssa-1199.html

 

 

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

.I fail to understand how FCD accounts in Thailand relate to this scenario...

Because the direct deposit mentioned in this topic is not the same as the one via Bangkok Banks New York branch.

They will be sent by SWIFT directly to a bank here.

[Pib]

7 hours ago, tutsiwarrior said:

most of us get our SSA payments sent to the NYC Bangkok Bank branch in USD then transferred to Thailand in THB where it appears in our Bangkok Bank account in THB...the concern was with the IAT transfer format after April 2019 which can be clarified by Ms Supatra at the BBK Bank main office for individual accounts...I fail to understand how FCD accounts in Thailand relate to this scenario...

The IDD program (completed separate from payment via ACH) was to provide fix for those folks who SS payments are not arriving in ACH "IAT" format and for whatever reason those folks were (are) having a hell of a time in getting SSA to change their payment format to IAT format.   ACH payments are sent via the ACH system whereas IDD payments are usually sent by the SWIFT system. 

 

I can relate to the challenge in getting SSA to correct a payment to IAT payment based on my interface with the Manila and Baltimore SSA office over the last four months or so regarding my family member's payment not arriving in IAT format.   It's been somewhat like dealing with a "Deer in the Headlights."  

 

But in the initial/5 Nov 18 SSA IDD instruction a FCD account was going to be required; not a Thai baht account like folks currently have.  This means they would need to open a FCD before being able to sign up for IDD.  And as previously mentioned, a FCD has different rules, fees, restrictions, etc., regarding it use.   When you look at the various countries which have SSA IDD for some countries US Dollars must send to FCD account; in other countries the local currency must be sent to non-FCD accounts (i.e., regular accounts).  Apparently that driven by some Treasury Dept regulation.  

 

According to Bangkok Bank's latest stats as to how many SS payments to Bangkok Bank are "not" in IAT format it's 20% of the payments.  That's what both the HQ Bangkok Bank and Bangkok Bank "New York" branch told me in early December. 

 

On the SSA website it shows approx 7,000 folks "with Thailand addresses" (excluding those with Thailand APO addresses).  See snapshot below.  20% of the 6,853 folks receiving direct deposits is 1370 folks.  How many of those 1,370 folks are using the Bangkok Bank "New York" routing number I can't say...but I expect it's a lot.   And this figure only includes folks with Thailand addresses on file with the SSA; not folks who still have their US address on file with the SSA but having the SS payment sent to Bangkok Bank.

 

And I say a "lot" because months ago when I was talking to the HQ Bangkok Bank POC "face-to-face" on this issue she showed me the listing printout of US govt payments "not" being received in IAT format.   I said the thickness of that listing looks like at least hundreds of people; she quickly responded thousands.  But that printout included social security, military retirement, VA, OPM and a variety of other US govt payments.

 

From SSA Webpage

 

I followed thru with my ping to Manila SS Office last night asking about any update on the IDD for Thailand actually going online/enrollment starting.  I will update when/if I get a response.  Other folks might want to ping Manila also.  I figure more people beating on their door the better.

 

[mtls2005]

18 minutes ago, Pib said:

And I say a "lot" because months ago when I was talking to the HQ Bangkok Bank POC "face-to-face" on this issue she showed me the listing printout of US govt payments "not" being received in IAT format.   I said the thickness of that listing looks like at least hundreds of people; she quickly responded thousands.  But that printout included social security, military retirement, VA, OPM and a variety of other US govt payments.

 

I'm not sure a Bangkok Bank employee should be sharing details like this with you or any schmoe off the street. 

 

They certainly shouldn't be showing you listings or printouts.

 

 

[Pib]

Now for you that have signed-up for/receive the free SMS Remittance from Bangkok Bank whenever an international transfer posts to your account but have not contacted Bangkok Bank yet to ask if your SS payment is arriving in IAT format, a highly indicate way to determine whether it's in IAT or Domestic (a.k.a., PPD) format is look at the first few words in the SMS.  

 

If it starts off by saying "SSA Treas 310..." then it's "not" in IAT format.  If it starts off my saying "Social Security..." it's in IAT format.   

 

These first few words are extracted directly from the Sender Address data field in the incoming payment/transfer.  For an IAT format the Sender (Social Security in this case) has included their full address like Social Security Administration along with their street/city/ZIP code; however, in a non-IAT format the Sender Address data field just includes an abbreviated name as in SSA Treas 310.   

 

And if you looked at full printout of a transfer/payment what they call the Standard Entry Class (SEC) data field it will include the code of "IAT" for a IAT transfer; if not an IAT transfer the SEC data field will include a code like "PPD" which is a domestic format (funds not meant to leave the US).  By being able to key in on this SEC data field is what makes it so easy for Bangkok Bank to determine if a payment is in IAT format or not.

 

Anyway, below are examples of Bangkok Bank SMS for a Social Security non-IAT payment and an IAT payment

 

SMS for non-IAT format

 

 

SMS for IAT Format

[Boon Mee]

Can we cut to the chase boys?

What difference will occur some 3 months down the road to the existing SS deposits we now receive from Bangkok Bank thru New York to here?

What steps do we need to enact ourselves to guarantee continued Direct Deposits?

Yes, I've read thru the above posts loaded w/information but failed to see what we personally need to do?

Thanks! 

 

[Pib]

  I'm not sure a Bangkok Bank employee should be sharing details like this with you or any schmoe off the street. 

 

They certainly shouldn't be showing you listings or printouts.

 

 

 

The listings shown is just a index printed out with like 50 line items per page with a bunch of these pages stapled together and you are not handed this printout to review yourself. It would be like me talking to you while I hold a printout saying this is a list of all the folks not recieving their payment in IAT format. 

And the on screen individual printout showing details is my family members actual info with the family member setting next to me. Then another on screen "redacted" printout example of a payment in IAT format...their "for example" printout to easy explain what an IAT payment actually looks like.

 

 

 

[noise]

On 10 December, the Manila SSA office sent me an email saying:  As of this moment we can only process Bangkok Bank direct deposit accounts in Thailand, meaning the New York branch

 

As other posters have pointed out, using the Bangkok Bank New York branch makes it an "in-country U.S. bank to bank" transfer which, by the way, are always made in ACH format.   

[ubonjoe]

57 minutes ago, noise said:

As other posters have pointed out, using the Bangkok Bank New York branch makes it an "in-country U.S. bank to bank" transfer which, by the way, are always made in ACH format.   

Correct but the transfer has to be coded as a IAT transfer or Bangkok Bank will start returning them on April 1st. Most are already arriving in the IAt format from the SSA. You need to check with Bangkok Bank to confirm they are in the IAT format.

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

The IDD program (completed separate from payment via ACH) was to provide fix for those folks who SS payments are not arriving in ACH "IAT" format and for whatever reason those folks were (are) having a hell of a time in getting SSA to change their payment format to IAT format.   ACH payments are sent via the ACH system whereas IDD payments are usually sent by the SWIFT system. 

 

I can relate to the challenge in getting SSA to correct a payment to IAT payment based on my interface with the Manila and Baltimore SSA office over the last four months or so regarding my family member's payment not arriving in IAT format.   It's been somewhat like dealing with a "Deer in the Headlights."  

 

But in the initial/5 Nov 18 SSA IDD instruction a FCD account was going to be required; not a Thai baht account like folks currently have.  This means they would need to open a FCD before being able to sign up for IDD.  And as previously mentioned, a FCD has different rules, fees, restrictions, etc., regarding it use.   When you look at the various countries which have SSA IDD for some countries US Dollars must send to FCD account; in other countries the local currency must be sent to non-FCD accounts (i.e., regular accounts).  Apparently that driven by some Treasury Dept regulation.  

 

According to Bangkok Bank's latest stats as to how many SS payments to Bangkok Bank are "not" in IAT format it's 20% of the payments.  That's what both the HQ Bangkok Bank and Bangkok Bank "New York" branch told me in early December. 

 

On the SSA website it shows approx 7,000 folks "with Thailand addresses" (excluding those with Thailand APO addresses).  See snapshot below.  20% of the 6,853 folks receiving direct deposits is 1370 folks.  How many of those 1,370 folks are using the Bangkok Bank "New York" routing number I can't say...but I expect it's a lot.   And this figure only includes folks with Thailand addresses on file with the SSA; not folks who still have their US address on file with the SSA but having the SS payment sent to Bangkok Bank.

 

And I say a "lot" because months ago when I was talking to the HQ Bangkok Bank POC "face-to-face" on this issue she showed me the listing printout of US govt payments "not" being received in IAT format.   I said the thickness of that listing looks like at least hundreds of people; she quickly responded thousands.  But that printout included social security, military retirement, VA, OPM and a variety of other US govt payments.

 

From SSA Webpage

 

I followed thru with my ping to Manila SS Office last night asking about any update on the IDD for Thailand actually going online/enrollment starting.  I will update when/if I get a response.  Other folks might want to ping Manila also.  I figure more people beating on their door the better.

 

you better sit down while waiting for their answer..... I am still waiting and it has been 8 + months

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Boon Mee said:

Can we cut to the chase boys?

What difference will occur some 3 months down the road to the existing SS deposits we now receive from Bangkok Bank thru New York to here?

What steps do we need to enact ourselves to guarantee continued Direct Deposits?

Yes, I've read thru the above posts loaded w/information but failed to see what we personally need to do?

Thanks! 

 

 

All you can do is:

 

(1)  Follow the Bangkok Bank instructions per their website/their below 1 Oct 18 memo (this memo is basically a repeat of what's been on their website months before 1 Oct 18).   The individual must contact Bangkok Bank to determine if their payment is in IAT format....it it is you are good to go; if not in IAT format then the individual needs to contact/work with SSA to get it corrected to IAT.

 

OR

 

(2) Wait for SSA to begin Thailand IDD enrollment.

 

[racyrick]

Thanks for the information Pib.

Please keep us updated.

Hard for me because I can't access the SSA website as I have 3BB as my provider.

Need to go to an internet shop to access.

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, racyrick said:

Hard for me because I can't access the SSA website as I have 3BB as my provider.

Same on True internet for me. It worked until they changed my IP address. Works on my tablet using data with True.

I gave up and got a VPN setup. About 1200 baht for a year.

[Pib]

4 hours ago, Mavideol said:

you better sit down while waiting for their answer..... I am still waiting and it has been 8 + months

Well, I did get a response from Manila today....I was surprised.  Unfortunately, I asked two questions in my ping to Manila.  First question was "not" related to the ACH IAT and IDD issues, but the second question was about IDD for Thailand enrollment/kickoff status.  The Manila response didn't address the second question.....the IDD question.  Maybe I broke a rule of asking more than one question.

 

So, I have pinged them again with only one question....the IDD enrollment question.

[joealx]

On 1/25/2019 at 5:49 PM, racyrick said:

Hard for me because I can't access the SSA website as I have 3BB as my provider

Use a Reliable VPN.

[Pib]

On 1/25/2019 at 6:13 PM, Pib said:

Well, I did get a response from Manila today....I was surprised.  Unfortunately, I asked two questions in my ping to Manila.  First question was "not" related to the ACH IAT and IDD issues, but the second question was about IDD for Thailand enrollment/kickoff status.  The Manila response didn't address the second question.....the IDD question.  Maybe I broke a rule of asking more than one question.

 

So, I have pinged them again with only one question....the IDD enrollment question.

 

I did get another response this afternoon from Manila after pinging them again. 

 

Unfortunately, Manila’s response just said they have received he instructions for the Thailand IDD (but they told me that last month also).  And they also said they have not received an implementation date. 

 

I expect Manila is really saying they are still waiting on HQ SSA/Baltimore Office to give the final instructions and go-ahead to begin Thailand IDD enrollment.   Sounds to me like HQ SSA/Baltimore International Operations is still not done putting the final touches on the Thailand IDD....still finalizing the implementation.....more "T's to cross and I's to dot so to speak.   

 

I expect like many things what looks like a simple thing to do on the surface is really not so simple....kinda like only seeing the tip of the iceberg.    I hope they hurry up and get it finished...and flip the Thailand IDD switch to On soon.

 

[racyrick]

Pib-Thanks for keeping us updated!

[Tagaa]

On 1/25/2019 at 10:47 AM, Pib said:

Now for you that have signed-up for/receive the free SMS Remittance from Bangkok Bank whenever an international transfer posts to your account but have not contacted Bangkok Bank yet to ask if your SS payment is arriving in IAT format, a highly indicate way to determine whether it's in IAT or Domestic (a.k.a., PPD) format is look at the first few words in the SMS.  

 

If it starts off by saying "SSA Treas 310..." then it's "not" in IAT format.  If it starts off my saying "Social Security..." it's in IAT format.   

 

SMS for non-IAT format

 

 

SMS for IAT Format

 

 

 

Amazingly enough I got my SMS from BKK Bank , yesterday, Feb 1 at 3:21 PM, confirming my Feb deposit.

 

My SMS says nothing about who or what entity sent the funds, it simply reads :

 

"Deposit/transfer to your account, xxxxxxxx, of Bt XX, XXX.00 via AUTO; the available balance is xx,xxx.00"

[flexomike]

2 minutes ago, Tagaa said:

Amazingly enough I got my SMS from BKK Bank , yesterday, Feb 1 at 3:21 PM.

 

My SMS says nothing about who or what entity sent the funds, it simply reads :

 

"Deposit/transfer to your account, xxxxxxxx, of Bt XX, XXX.00 via AUTO; the available balance is xx,xxx.00"

Just got mine yesterday and it says, Deposit/transfer to your account via AUTO

[flexomike]

4 minutes ago, Tagaa said:

Amazingly enough I got my SMS from BKK Bank , yesterday, Feb 1 at 3:21 PM.

 

My SMS says nothing about who or what entity sent the funds, it simply reads :

 

"Deposit/transfer to your account, xxxxxxxx, of Bt XX, XXX.00 via AUTO; the available balance is xx,xxx.00"

same as mine

[Sheryl]

Pib, many thanks for this update - with the new retirement visa rules it is especially timely.

 

Do you or anyone know if SSA charges a fee for sending SWIFT transfers?

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Pib, many thanks for this update - with the new retirement visa rules it is especially timely.

 

Do you or anyone know if SSA charges a fee for sending SWIFT transfers?

My SMS says 200 baht if you mean the one that starts with Social Security Administr.

 

[Pib]

29 minutes ago, Tagaa said:

Amazingly enough I got my SMS from BKK Bank , yesterday, Feb 1 at 3:21 PM, confirming my Feb deposit.

 

My SMS says nothing about who or what entity sent the funds, it simply reads :

 

"Deposit/transfer to your account, xxxxxxxx, of Bt XX, XXX.00 via AUTO; the available balance is xx,xxx.00"

 

Just to confirm are you talking a "Social Security" benefit/pension payment or some other payment? 

 

My family member's SS payment to Bangkok Bank on 1 Feb started off with "SSA Treas 310..."....still not in IAT format.  I called SSA in Baltimore again last night about that issue...the SS rep I've been talking to is "still working it."   The SS reps seem like Deer in the Headlights on this IAT issue....how to get a payment not in IAT format switch to IAT format.   

 

Heck, I expect the SSA IDD for Thailand will go into effect soon and my family member will just switch to that method since IDD must now go to a Thai baht account (just as before and what the family member already has)

[marcusarelus]

30 minutes ago, flexomike said:

Just got mine yesterday and it says, Deposit/transfer to your account via AUTO

Mine used to say that too till I changed something.  I'd have to be at the ATM to tell you exactly what I did.  Go to the bank and ask them to change it. 

[Pib]

 

16 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Pib, many thanks for this update - with the new retirement visa rules it is especially timely.

 

Do you or anyone know if SSA charges a fee for sending SWIFT transfers?

 

The SSA does not charge a SWIFT sending fee.  The Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City actually pays the SSA payment based on SSA payment instructions.  Ex: SSA tells Kansas City to pay Sheryl $1000....the Kansas City Federal Reserve Bank makes a payment to a financial institution in Thailand (i.e, maybe the Bank of  Thailand, maybe Bangkok Bank, etc.) who in-turn then relays the payment to one of many Thai banks. Whoever SSA uses within Thailand to initially receive/relay the transfer is called the "processor financial institution (FI)."   I don't know who that will be.  

 

Although there is no IDD sending fee there "can" still be receiving fees.  Whether there are any receiving fees will depend on the SSA IDD arrangement....will have to wait see once Thailand IDD is actually implemented.   But at least the Bangkok Bank NY branch flow-thru ACH fee of $5 for most folks and $10 for those getting SSA payment higher than $2,000 will be a thing of the past.

 

See the below SSA webpage talking SSA IDD at the 10,000 foot level 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402201

[Sheryl]

Great if no trabnsfer fee.

 

the other point which I forgot to ask though, and which will be important for some, is whether the transfer will show as an international transfer.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

the other point which I forgot to ask though, and which will be important for some, is whether the transfer will show as an international transfer.

We'll have to wait and see. 

[Tagaa]

On 2/2/2019 at 4:30 PM, Pib said:

 

Just to confirm are you talking a "Social Security" benefit/pension payment or some other payment? 

 

 

Social Security payment...

 

I called the SS phone # on their website & used the help desk option as it was after 7PM EST. The guy I spoke to was clueless an absolutely no help what so ever. A useful tidbit of info I did get was that the SSA website no longer requires you to change your password every 60 or 90 days, or what ever the time frame was. You can keep your password and only change it whenever you so desire.

 

By the way, I followed the link to the document you mentioned above. My take after reading that is that the KC Fed can send a transfer to your bank, without actually incurring the usual SWIFT fee.

 

Also, I called the phone number listed in the letter from BKK Bank dated Oct, 1 and a young lady named Pranee, that spoke excellent English, told me in less than 1 minute that my transfer was in fact IACH. I applied for my SS last June, so it appears at some date prior to June or July, 2018, there was a change over from ACH to IACH. If someone can find out what the date was, that would answer the question for many people.

 

One more thing I found out today is that you do not need a VPN to get into the SSA website & log in. A friend suggested I use Internet Explorer and the address secure.ssa.gov... I got in no problem.