e-Visa for Chinese tourists to be launched February 15

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, wobalt said:

If you don’t have a registered UK address you cannot use the system?


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Looking at it, not the London portal at this time, no. We all need to wait and see the final product. It still has 3 months to run before London comes on stream.

[wobalt]

The SW even not let me enter the system and advice me to visit an embassy. A personal appearance is always requested so the reason for that systems are questionable and possibly violate data EU protection laws.


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[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, wobalt said:

The SW even not let me enter the system and advice me to visit an embassy. A personal appearance is always requested so the reason for that systems are questionable and possibly violate data EU protection laws.


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I am not an EU Lawyer neither am I a developer that had any input in the system. The Thais, US, Germans, and the French amongst others were all involved in building the system.The way it works in conjunction with the help of the tutorials isn't hard to understand and I am simply answering your questions on what I know about it and with the help of some people that are involved in it.
It is what it is and believe it or not, it really is happening and coming very soon. 

[Saladin]

Visas have lost their whole purpose for existence and are simply another money making racket for the government, and not just in Thailand. Gone are the days when people were vetted before being issued with permission to enter (visa). 

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, Saladin said:

Visas have lost their whole purpose for existence and are simply another money making racket for the government, and not just in Thailand. Gone are the days when people were vetted before being issued with permission to enter (visa). 

In fairness, that is the reason amongst others, for this new system. Without the legitimate back up documents and depending on your visa history, a visa may or may not be granted. It's simply not just the Embassy thumbing through a passport any longer.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, wobalt said:

Well have played with the Non O section, system says that I have to go to embassy or consulate as I am no longer resident in Germany but registered in Thailand?


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It asks you where you have permanent residency. If you would have permanent residency in Thailand you would not need a non-O visa.

So in your case you would put "Germany" in both fields. But this website isn't working properly anyway.

[wobalt]

Back up docs has always been provided to the consulates,especially for the Honorary consulates (multiple entry non O, approval at embassy/bangkok).
Honestly they should focus on the change of requirements for PR or citizenship for long term married people.
For example when I was in China, I got instantly a permanent residence visa.


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[wobalt]

It asks you where you have permanent residency. If you would have permanent residency in Thailand you would not need a non-O visa.
So in your case you would put "Germany" in both fields. But this website isn't working properly anyway.

I do not have permanent residency in Germany anymore. I am registered with my MOFA that I live in Thailand, stated in my passport. So the system forced me to lie?


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[ubonjoe]

Two inflammatory posts have been removed. A repeat of it will result in a formal warning.

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, wobalt said:

I do not have permanent residency in Germany anymore. I am registered with my MOFA that I live in Thailand, stated in my passport. So the system forced me to lie?


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Here is the problem though if you attempt to cheat the system. It knows where your passport is issued and all the details it contains from previous entry's. A new passport will be linked as it is now at immigration. Even if it was your first ever entry and you attempt to bypass the details, it would be picked up on once your scanned documents were uploaded. If by a a very slim chance, you did manage to bypass that, once you go to an Embassy with your hard copies to get the visa, any discrepancies would then be noticed on the cross check. That would simply mean a wasted journey to the Embassy and the loss of your prepaid visa fee plus I would of thought, some mark on the system.
I am not implying you would attempt any of this but without doubt, there are people that will who after all of that, still need to clear immigration with a passport scan.

[wobalt]

My passport is issued in Bangkok


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[wobalt]

So when you have still to supply hard copies to the embassies, why I should upload my docs to some place where I don’t know who have access to them?


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[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, wobalt said:

So when you have still to supply hard copies to the embassies, why I should upload my docs to some place where I don’t know who have access to them?


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Because they want you too. If you refuse you cannot apply for the visa. It's a simple choice at the end of the day to apply or not.

[wobalt]

As I said before let’s see how it will work,maybe it degrades to a pure appointment system soon.


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[wvavin]

The Chinese are not stupid enough to risk their lives again!

[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, wobalt said:

As I said before let’s see how it will work,maybe it degrades to a pure appointment system soon.


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Lets quit the dreaming and just say....no it won't lol

[wobalt]

Because they want you too. If you refuse you cannot apply for the visa. It's a simple choice at the end of the day to apply or not.

There is always the option to go directly to the embassy or consulates as stated .


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[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, wobalt said:

There is always the option to go directly to the embassy or consulates as stated .


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But there isn't. You cannot do it that way any longer once the system comes online.

 

[wobalt]

In the UK. Well, in the end it depends how strong your network in the Thai society is.


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[Lovethailandelite]

Just now, wobalt said:

In the UK. Well, in the end it depends how strong your network in the Thai society is.


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OK. I will leave you to it ????

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, wobalt said:

Honestly they should focus on the change of requirements for PR or citizenship for long term married people.

The question is if immigration cares - either about us, or the Thai people in our lives.  Their changing policies indicate that many of them clearly don't.  We are just-barely tolerated, thanks to some "good guys" in the system who have managed to hold off the hard-liners. 

 

And, of course, you cannot get to know a future wife in Thailand, if you cannot stay here very long to get to know her and the culture.  Your getting married and having a way to stay is the "nightmare-scenario," for the hard-liners.  As one senior-IO told an expat at immigration at a Bangkok Airport, "If you love your (Thai) GF, marry her and move to your country.  You are not wanted here."  They then rejected his entry.

 

Let us hope the "good guys" - who actually care about the well-being of their fellow citizens - can manage to keep the rules for this visa-system from wrecking more lives (expat and Thai).

Edited January 26, 2019 by JackThompson

[wobalt]

Agreed


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[Lovethailandelite]

47 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The question is if immigration cares - either about us, or the Thai people in our lives.  Their changing policies indicate that many of them clearly don't.  We are just-barely tolerated, thanks to some "good guys" in the system who have managed to hold off the hard-liners. 

 

And, of course, you cannot get to know a future wife in Thailand, if you cannot stay here very long to get to know her and the culture.  Your getting married and having a way to stay is the "nightmare-scenario," for the hard-liners.  As one senior-IO told an expat at immigration at a Bangkok Airport, "If you love your (Thai) GF, marry her and move to your country.  You are not wanted here."  They then rejected his entry.

 

Let us hope the "good guys" - who actually care about the well-being of their fellow citizens - can manage to keep the rules for this visa-system from wrecking more lives (expat and Thai).

I'm not sure how a system designed to issue a visa or not on an equal criteria is wrecking anybody's life? You either qualify or you don't.
As for Thai culture, it is still seen as a Taboo subject in many circles for Thais to be having relationships with foreigners, let alone marrying them. It's mostly tolerated yes. Going down the Thai culture route is not going to win you many rounds against those that still don't agree with it.

[farangx]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

The question is if immigration cares - either about us, or the Thai people in our lives.  Their changing policies indicate that many of them clearly don't.  We are just-barely tolerated, thanks to some "good guys" in the system who have managed to hold off the hard-liners. 

 

Drama Jack, drama.

 

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

And, of course, you cannot get to know a future wife in Thailand, if you cannot stay here very long to get to know her and the culture.  Your getting married and having a way to stay is the "nightmare-scenario," for the hard-liners. 

But you do love your wife do you not? And you will be doing these extensions in the years to come for her sake not yours.  Remember Jack, love conquers all. ????

 

[JTXR]

A lot of the western expats on this site seem entirely blind to the obvious.  Whether tourism, expatriation or direct foreign investment, for Thailand and the rest of Asia, China is the future.  Sure, it may end up being be regional hegemony of the most exploitative sort, but it's a fact, and the griping about "all we westerns expats have done for Thailand" won't affect it a bit.

[wobalt]

I'm not sure how a system designed to issue a visa or not on an equal criteria is wrecking anybody's life? You either qualify or you don't.
As for Thai culture, it is still seen as a Taboo subject in many circles for Thais to be having relationships with foreigners, let alone marrying them. It's mostly tolerated yes. Going down the Thai culture route is not going to win you many rounds against those that still don't agree with it.

Who are this circles you referring too?


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[JackThompson]

14 hours ago, farangx said:

Drama Jack, drama.

 

But you do love your wife do you not? And you will be doing these extensions in the years to come for her sake not yours.  Remember Jack, love conquers all. ????

If I could not have spent much time here using Tourist Visas, I could never have built the relationship with my wife, and familiarity with the culture, which allowed us to get married.

 

I faced constant resistance (violating their own published laws/rules) - at amphoes while trying to get married, and at immigration after we were married - to continuing our relationship.  It is clear there is a faction within govt bureaucracies which does not approve of "mixed-marriages." 

 

14 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

I'm not sure how a system designed to issue a visa or not on an equal criteria is wrecking anybody's life? You either qualify or you don't.

 

Currently, the Visa system is often the only path to avoid corruption at immigration offices for many who are married to a Thai.  It is also the primary way that longer-staying expats under 50 can continue their foreign-sourced spending, which is critical to the survival of many Thai businesses, and the thousands of better-paying entry-level Thai jobs they create.

 

This is precisely why the restrictions on Tourist Visa use were written as they were - without limitation on repeated issuance, provided the other criteria were met.  Nearly all of those hundreds of Tourist Visa applicants at Vientiane every day support several Thai jobs each while spending in Thailand.

 

If the rules on Tourist Visa-Issuance follow the published rules - Air-ticket, Accommodation, 20K Baht - then I don't see any problem at all.  It could even be an improvement.   Similarly for Non-O-ME Visas - issued based on a valid marriage to a Thai.

 

But, if the clique who runs the bad entry-points and immigration offices gets their fingers into it, we could see the same problems with Visa-issuance which we currently see for many when entering the country, or when applying for honest-extensions - the emergence of a 3rd Category, which is the cause of a large number of posts on this forum: 

 

 - Those Who Qualify Per the Law, Yet Are Denied Anyway -

 

The goal of that 3rd Category is to force people into paying agents to payoff corrupt-officials for honest-extensions, or push them into "buy a visa" schemes.  If the new visa-system is used to that end, then it should be exposed for what it is.  Only time will tell.

 

Quote

As for Thai culture, it is still seen as a Taboo subject in many circles for Thais to be having relationships with foreigners, let alone marrying them. It's mostly tolerated yes. Going down the Thai culture route is not going to win you many rounds against those that still don't agree with it.

I agree with them, to the extent that we should have to assimilate to Thai culture - or at the very least, not try to change it.  Foreigners married to Thais would we wise to go to the Wat with the family on holy-days, show respect to family and community elders, and respect cultural traditions.  Embracing the Self-Sustainability Doctrine - a blueprint for parallel rural and urban development, which preserves family connections to the land, is also important.

 

I have heard stories of farang who eschewed basic tenets of respect, and have no issue with them being removed from the country for such violations.  If I wrote the rules, that would include foreign-missionaries.  But, such considerations do not extend to condoning corruption - a caustic cancer which hurts expats and Thais, alike. 

Edited January 27, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, JTXR said:

A lot of the western expats on this site seem entirely blind to the obvious.  Whether tourism, expatriation or direct foreign investment, for Thailand and the rest of Asia, China is the future.  Sure, it may end up being be regional hegemony of the most exploitative sort, but it's a fact, and the griping about "all we westerns expats have done for Thailand" won't affect it a bit.

The shape that future takes could vary widely, depending on actions taken today.  As-is, China lures Western businesses to move their tech-development into the country in exchange for a cheap and compliant workforce.  Combined with this, nations with high-wages have reduced tariffs on wage-slave-made imported-goods.  As well, wide-scale human-rights abuses are not punished when committed by the Chinese govt, while smaller infractions cause widespread condemnation, boycotts, etc on other nations.  Similar with unilateral annexations of territory - take Crimea by Russia (part of Russia for over 250 years) vs the Chinese in the Philippine and South China Seas.

 

What if all those policies were reversed, and the West took the same position vis-a-vis China as they did Russia (per Crimea), the USSR (to stop communism) - or as they did with China, itself, prior to its being foolishly-allowed into the WTO without sane conditions for that privilege?  What if the West did not unilaterally disarm in the face of Chinese Mercantilist practices?  This would result in a very different future - hopefully a freer and non-expansionist China, with higher-incomes for its people, and whose development all would welcome - including its neighbors - without fear.

Edited January 27, 2019 by JackThompson

[farangx]

32 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

What if all those policies were reversed, and the West took the same position vis-a-vis China as they did Russia (per Crimea), the USSR (to stop communism) - or as they did with China, itself, prior to its being foolishly-allowed into the WTO without sane conditions for that privilege?  What if the West did not unilaterally disarm in the face of Chinese Mercantilist practices?  This would result in a very different future - hopefully a freer and non-expansionist China, with higher-incomes for its people, and whose development all would welcome - including its neighbors - without fear.

A multipolar world is always welcome.

 

[Lovethailandelite]

Now confirmed as the exact same system London switches too in April.