Retirement visa income method, trapped in Thailand in future?

[cracker1]

I have had OA Retirement Visa's for 15 years and I get them in my country annually from Thai Embassy. I present a letter from my bank attesting to the required level of income over the previous three months, and this has always been accepted.

If "graemeaylward" is making annual visits home then perhaps he could do as I do ?

[jacko45k]

41 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

How do I get a MC CC? Can I get one? I don't have work permit and never had work permit in Thailand. However, I have more than 60 credit cards from USA, totaling close to a million dollar in available credit. Collecting CC is my hobby since I started job in the USA. How do I proceed? Just show up at the bank and ask for one? 

Firstly you need to have an account at that bank. In my case Bangkok Bank. Then they will issue one, no work permit required BUT you have to open a Fixed Deposit in an amount equivalent to your credit limit. (So not really a credit card). But it is nevertheless very useful and does all the things I mentioned. I pay it off each month so free to operate, although beware some merchants in Thailand like to tag on a surcharge for using credit cards. Rarer these days.

Edited January 28, 2019 by jacko45k

[orchidfan]

On 1/26/2019 at 12:20 PM, JackThompson said:

I don't think TW works in that direction (pls correct if this has changed).  He would have to use Dee Money, a crypto-currency exchange, or something else.

 

They used to offer the Visa, then the Union Pay only - finally they are offering a MC (started Dec 18).  I got one, and can pay USA companies with it ok.  I haven't tried it in foreign ATMs, but should work.

I also changed my BB Unionpay ATM card for the B 1st Mastercard which worked perfectly in HK, Singapore and Vietnam..both withdrawing cash and paying of hotel bills and airline tickets (Air Asia ). Try that. It costs a few hundred baht for the new MC (note it's a debit card not a credit card)

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

I also changed my BB Unionpay ATM card for the B 1st Mastercard which worked perfectly in HK, Singapore and Vietnam..both withdrawing cash and paying of hotel bills and airline tickets (Air Asia ). Try that. It costs a few hundred baht for the new MC (note it's a debit card not a credit card)

Of those only Hong Kong is missing from this list.

Is UnionPay so bad?

[sumrit]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

But to add a new payee using their mbanking it appears you might be able to select Pay Bill/TopUp,  then Pay Bill, then Search Payee, and then find the payee in the list of payees Bangkok Bank can pay.  Enter the payment info and pay the bill.  And maybe at the end of that payment process an option will then appear to save that payee for future use....it then may appear in your list of pre-setup payees.  But I can't say for sure as I don't have any new payee I need to add nor a payment I need to actually make in that testing process.

 

Not sure about not being able to add a new transfer account....from me playing with the mbanking app just now it sure appears to me you can as I went thru some of the preliminary steps....but could not follow thru with a 100% test as I don't have an actual need to do a transfer to a new payee.   But like you described how you can make a one-off transfer by entering the details you can't save it for future use....since I can't follow thru with a 100% test I take you word for it that it can't be done as you probably done a 100% test.

Yes, I've found and used the bill payment option but that's for utility type payments. There's also a 'pay account' option in transfers where you can pay an individual by inputting their account number as a one-off payment but there's no option to store those payment details for future use. To store the details you have to go to ibanking first, then storing and using the info there first before waiting five days for that payment information to be transferred to the mobile app. And, unless I've miss-understood the options and there is a simple setup every time I want to add/delete an account I'll have to go through the same procedure.

 

The primary reason for using Bangkok bank is to show my TW  transfers as international transfers. I can see me doing a single transfer from Bangkok bank to my Krung Thai account and continuing with that as my 'everyday account' in the future.

 

 

[sumrit]

19 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Of those only Hong Kong is missing from this list.

Is UnionPay so bad?

The list looks quite impressive but is the card recognised and accepted by (practically) all ATM's, shops and hotels in each of those countries like VISA and MC are??

[jimn]

2 hours ago, cracker1 said:

I have had OA Retirement Visa's for 15 years and I get them in my country annually from Thai Embassy. I present a letter from my bank attesting to the required level of income over the previous three months, and this has always been accepted.

If "graemeaylward" is making annual visits home then perhaps he could do as I do ?

I agree with you and be moving to an OA visa in 2020. Puzzled why you get a new visa annually. If you use it right you can get 2 years out of the the visa by entering Thailand just before the expiry date and getting a re entry permit.

Edited January 28, 2019 by jimn

[onera1961]

10 hours ago, jacko45k said:

BUT you have to open a Fixed Deposit in an amount equivalent to your credit limit. (So not really a credit card).

It is a secured credit card. Not sure I will be inclined to get it unless it gives me some compelling benefits. Already have their MC debit card which I hardly use except for ATM withdrawal. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by onera1961

[moontang]

CIMB...has Cirrus logo on the back...and visa on the front.  You get some of the highest interest rates in LOS. too. But why do things efficiently and easily?

[Speedhump]

20 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Then why not get one of their MC Credit cards? I have most certainly used that for on-line shopping, a multitude of Thai shops and overseas websites. Bought me many expensive flights and overseas hotel stays.

Unfortunately I can't get credit because I'm on a retirement visa! 

[Speedhump]

14 hours ago, sumrit said:

The list looks quite impressive but is the card recognised and accepted by (practically) all ATM's, shops and hotels in each of those countries like VISA and MC are??

Even AIS won't accept a Union Pay debit card in their branches to pay phone bills! 

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, onera1961 said:

It is a secured credit card. Not sure I will be inclined to get it unless it gives me some compelling benefits. Already have their MC debit card which I hardly use except for ATM withdrawal. 

I use the CC a lot, often paying for big-ish bills where I don't really want to use up my cash in pocket and force a trip to the bank/ATM. Also for a lot of on-line purchases, Lazada etc, flight tickets and such. Only gripe was Ford, after a particularly expensive repair on my old truck , they hit me with a surcharge for using it, and I was so irritated and flummoxed, I didn't think to use the debit card I have.   

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Speedhump said:

Unfortunately I can't get credit because I'm on a retirement visa! 

I am on a retirement extension? I don't need credit and it is expensive anyhow. It's not really credit, I have to keep an FD account to cover it, so it is a 'secured Credit Card'.

[lamyai3]

20 hours ago, cracker1 said:

I have had OA Retirement Visa's for 15 years and I get them in my country annually from Thai Embassy. I present a letter from my bank attesting to the required level of income over the previous three months, and this has always been accepted.

If "graemeaylward" is making annual visits home then perhaps he could do as I do ?

You do police reports and medical certificates each time too? As mentioned, you could get two years out of each one of these if you time it right.

 

The OP already has his visa extensions under control and visits the UK infrequently - twice in six years. The cost of a new non O/A plus police and medical would far outweigh the cost of occasional repatriating or cashing out of some travel funds. 

[graemeaylward]

Wow, I have learned so much about the different banks, cards, visas etc. and all from one simple thought. Thank you all so much for your input. I shall go to Bangkok Bank today and change my Visa Debit Card to a MasterCard Debit card, ask them to activate it for International ATM use, find out about ibanking and mbanking so could be there some time :-) Once again thank you all so much!

Sent from my X98 Plus II (C2D6) using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Andycoops]

On 1/26/2019 at 12:20 PM, JackThompson said:

I don't think TW works in that direction (pls correct if this has changed).  He would have to use Dee Money, a crypto-currency exchange, or something else.

 

They used to offer the Visa, then the Union Pay only - finally they are offering a MC (started Dec 18).  I got one, and can pay USA companies with it ok.  I haven't tried it in foreign ATMs, but should work.

TransferWise should work both ways as far as I am aware although I've yet to use it in the Thai to UK direction.

After all you are only making a domestic Thai transfer from your Thai bank account to their Thai bank account. 

[Jumbo1968]

8 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

TransferWise should work both ways as far as I am aware although I've yet to use it in the Thai to UK direction.

After all you are only making a domestic Thai transfer from your Thai bank account to their Thai bank account. 

Unfortunately TransferWise don’t do transfers in Thailand, I enquired directly with them, if you go on their website I believe it lists the countries who you can transfer money too and from.

[geriatrickid]

9 hours ago, moontang said:

CIMB...has Cirrus logo on the back...and visa on the front.  You get some of the highest interest rates in LOS. too. But why do things efficiently and easily?

For the same reason they do not consider using a  prepaid debit or credit card and travelers cheques, until they sort it out. Such is the life of those who live hand to mouth.

 

Not to be  cruel, but this is why Thailand has the  base income requirement. Too many people are in Thailand who really cannot afford to be. The country is too expensive for them, and they most likely do not have health insurance either.  Sad.

[Pib]

58 minutes ago, Andycoops said:

TransferWise should work both ways as far as I am aware although I've yet to use it in the Thai to UK direction.

After all you are only making a domestic Thai transfer from your Thai bank account to their Thai bank account. 

Transferwise does "not" transfer funds out" of Thailand.  Ditto for quite a few other countries which you can read about at below Transferwise weblink.   That is, they can transfer into many countries but can not transfer out of "some" countries as some countries tightly control the outflow of funds of which Thailand is one of those countries.

 

https://transferwise.com/help/article/1570071/basic-information/supported-countries 

 

 

 

 

[JDGRUEN]

I suggest that the OP and others consider signing up for the TransferWise Borderless Account. This is a step above just using TransferWise (TW) for international funds transfers. The TW Borderless Account acts like a bank account (not tied to any country) where you can keep a pool of money (in the amount and currency of your choice (of any amount you can afford to hold there).  There is an upward limit but this will not likely be a hindrance to most people.  You can transfer funds held there to most any other country with a choice of many destination currencies. 

TW Borderless Account will also issue a MasterCard endorsed Debit/ATM Card (not yet in all countries).

The TW Borderless account can allow for Direct Deposit of many different pension or other funds from various countries including Direct Deposit of U.S  Social Security Monthly Benefit Payments. 

 

The basic function of TransferWise to Transfer and Exchange Funds Internationally is an underlying and integral function of the TW Borderless Account.  Therefore, any funds held temporarily or long term in the Borderless Account are quickly transferred and exchanged to Thai Baht - then sent on to your Thai Bank at the touch of a button using the TransferWise App online.

TransferWise Borderless has banking affiliates in many different countries allowing domestic funds transfers to begin the process of international transfers.

 

https://transferwise.com/help/topic/1078409/borderless-account

 

[Sheryl]

I cannot imagine any IO being fine with 65k transferred in and then out again in total. It would be an immediate red flag suggesting illegal off the books income from either working in Thailand (not allowed on retirement extension) or engagi g in criminal a tivity.

For that matter I too would suspect this as how else is this person paying for their living costs?

Transferring out a (minority i.e. less than half) portion of the money and drawing down the rest over the month, on the other hand, is consistent with living on the money plus paying some bills back home. No rule against that. I doubt it would even be noticed or questioned but if it were just say it is for payment of bills in your home country.

There is no rule saying you have to spend 65k a month here. But there are rules that say you cannot work in Thailand or engage in criminal activity.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Speedhump]

7 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I am on a retirement extension? I don't need credit and it is expensive anyhow. It's not really credit, I have to keep an FD account to cover it, so it is a 'secured Credit Card'.

Yes you're right, not even credit, just ties up your cash to the full 'credit limit' available! I'll stick with Kbank who even give you an additional free 'virtual' VISA card (no plastic, just the numbers) to use online, never had it fail on me for overseas Web purchases. 

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Not to be  cruel, but this is why Thailand has the  base income requirement. Too many people are in Thailand who really cannot afford to be. The country is too expensive for them, and they most likely do not have health insurance either.  Sad.

Do you have any statistics to back that up?  Health insurance here is quite affordable. 

 

Easily do-able, even in a tourist-area, for a 65 YO to live here on 35K/mo, with health-insurance (~2K/mo), rent and utils (10K/mo), and plenty of going-out money.  Move up-country and it's even less.

Edited January 29, 2019 by JackThompson

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Do you have any statistics to back that up?  Health insurance here is quite affordable. 

 

Easily do-able, even in a tourist-area, for a 65 YO to live here on 35K/mo, with health-insurance (~2K/mo), rent and utils (10K/mo), and plenty of going-out money.  Move up-country and it's even less.

Well, there is indeed a wide range of health insurance....different levels of coverage, different polices, etc., for different age groups. 

 

But if using one of the three approved Thai health insurance companies & policies under the Thai Immigration "O-X 10 year Visa program," below is the annual premium by age group.  The policy must provide a certain level of coverage.  Tad more than Bt2K per month if we are  talking folks who are 50 and up in age.

 

Thai Embassy Washington DC talking O-X Visa Requirement

https://thaiembdc.org/non-immigrant-visa-category-o-x-long-stay/

 

Weblink within above of the three participating medical insurance companies in the O-X 10 Year Visa program

https://longstay.tgia.org/

 

Snapshot of premiums from the three approved companies. 

 

 

 

[BertM]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Do you have any statistics to back that up?  Health insurance here is quite affordable. 

 

Easily do-able, even in a tourist-area, for a 65 YO to live here on 35K/mo, with health-insurance (~2K/mo), rent and utils (10K/mo), and plenty of going-out money.  Move up-country and it's even less.

I can hardly wait to turn 65 and get my monthly expenses down to 35k per mth. I just turned 62 and I am spending about 150k per mth living here. Oh, that does include the allowance for my full-time homemaker wife. ????  Since they abolished slavery, I cannot get anyone to live with me & take care of me for nothing... ????????

Edited January 29, 2019 by BertM

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Well, there is indeed a wide range of health insurance....different levels of coverage, different polices, etc., for different age groups. 

 

But if using one of the three approved Thai health insurance companies & policies under the Thai Immigration "O-X 10 year Visa program," below is the annual premium by age group.  The policy must provide a certain level of coverage.  Tad more than Bt2K per month if we are  talking folks who are 50 and up in age.

 

Thai Embassy Washington DC talking O-X Visa Requirement

https://thaiembdc.org/non-immigrant-visa-category-o-x-long-stay/

 

Weblink within above of the three participating medical insurance companies in the O-X 10 Year Visa program

I was referring to the AXA Group Medical plans offered via the Pattaya Expats Club, but I see those plans are no longer available to new enrollees.  They have 2 other company-options for newcomers now - one starts at about 2100 Baht, the other at 3500 Baht (up to 64 YO for the first, and 80 YO for the 2nd). 

 

Those are the cheapest plans from each, but choosing more coverage would still not be a deal-breaker for someone with 35K Baht/mo to spend.

 

http://pattayaexpatsclub.info/wp/insurance/

 

Those interested in the O-X Visa would have to use whatever company-plans those setting up the O-X made "arrangements" with, I suppose.  Bummer for them.

Edited January 29, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, BertM said:

I can hardly wait to turn 65 and get my monthly expenses down to 35k per mth. I just turned 62 and I am spending about 150k per mth living here. Oh, that does include the allowance for my full-time homemaker wife. ????  Since they abolished slavery, I cannot get anyone to live with me & take care of me for nothing... ????????

My now-wife had a job when we met, and kept working while we lived together in Jomtien.  The 35K is about the cost when I was there, not including Visa-trips (was on Tourist Visas then).  I spent more on "us" enjoying life than I would have alone, of course - but not like these stories I hear about, "How much should I pay my GF to live with me," sort of thing.  Whatever works for others - that's fine, but I'd never go for that.

 

We now live in her village out in the boonies, where overhead and costs are a fraction.  I "pay the bills" as before, but she is not lazy, so started some projects that earn additional cash.  But now, she also cooks much better food than the restaurants where we used to eat.

Edited January 29, 2019 by JackThompson

[KhunFred]

On 1/26/2019 at 1:42 PM, JackThompson said:

 

I suspect the problem could be the crappy "Union Pay" card which Bangkok Bank was offering, to the exclusion of Visa/MC cards, for awhile.  Thankfully, that problem has been solved.  A few hundred baht and a visit to any branch, and you can now get a MC ATM card.

I have the new MasterCard Bangkok Bank Debit card, but I have yet to try to use it outside Thailand. If it can't be used, then we are no better off than with the Union Pay card.

[ubonjoe]

45 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

I have the new MasterCard Bangkok Bank Debit card, but I have yet to try to use it outside Thailand.

I have used my MasterCard for online payments outside of Thailand without a problem.

[Bill Miller]

On 1/26/2019 at 1:13 PM, graemeaylward said:

I have a Bangkok Bank Visa debit card which would not work in ATMs in UK in 2017!

Sent from my X98 Plus II (C2D6) using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I used mine in France in 2017, but had called ahead to ensure authorization. Actually my better half did the calling. ☺️