Punch Up

[ozzydom]

Wondering how the law works in Los when a farang decks a Thai, this morning I had an unfortunate run-in with a guy over his cows walking down the bung walls of our fish ponds.

This has been an ongoing problem,despite me putting barb wire fences up ,he just leaves his gate open and in they come.

Today they were in again and the wife and I were trying to shoo them out when he arrives full of whisky,he started a push and shove with me to leave his cows alone and it got really heated ,he grabbed a handful of my shirt and made a grab for a machete I keep at our bungalow,anyway to keep it short ,I gave him a left to drive him away from the chopper and then another which laid his eye open,after which he lost heart.

This took place on our property,I believe they have called the police , just wondering what happens now.

[ColPyat]

Wondering how the law works in Los when a farang decks a Thai, this morning I had an unfortunate run-in with a guy over his cows walking down the bung walls of our fish ponds.

You should call the Puyai Ban straight away, and hope that he is impartial, or well inclined towards your wife's family. Depends how backward your village is, you might have to be very careful in the future for revenge attacks. I have known people to be killed for less in my wife's village, which is very backward.

Edited February 24, 2007 by ColPyat

[Mobi]

Your wife's family should take immediate steps to put your (their) side of the story to the Puyai Ban and possibly the local police.

Try to do do this before your drunken antagonist gets in ahead of you.

Your position as a farang is somewhat precarious, especially in the current political climate.

I hesitate to suggest this, but depending on the situation, a little cash in the right palms might not go adrift - but let the family handle this as they see fit.

Good luck

Edited February 24, 2007 by Mobi D'Ark

[bino]

I'd agree with everyone... get your family involved and make your side of the story known to the pooyai / cops ASAFP. Preferably before he other guy sobers up.

[garro]

Your wife's family should take immediate steps to put your (their) side of the story to the Puyai Ban and possibly the local police.

Try to do do this before your drunken antagonist gets in ahead of you.

Your position as a farang is somewhat precarious, especially in the current political climate.

I hesitate to suggest this, but depending on the situation, a little cash in the right palms might not go adrift - but let the family handle this as they see fit.

Good luck

I completely agree with Mobi here. Although, I would say a cash payout is definitely on the cards. I would get this sorted quickly.

[ozzydom]

Your wife's family should take immediate steps to put your (their) side of the story to the Puyai Ban and possibly the local police.

Try to do do this before your drunken antagonist gets in ahead of you.

Your position as a farang is somewhat precarious, especially in the current political climate.

I hesitate to suggest this, but depending on the situation, a little cash in the right palms might not go adrift - but let the family handle this as they see fit.

Good luck

The Puyai Ban has been made aware of the incident,she was also previously aware of the problem with the cows as was the village assistant Puyai Ban who came to inspect damage earlier in the day.

By the way it is in the family,the guy is my brother in law, I unfortunately married into a family with a long history of fueds, up till now I have been able to keep my cool ,even when the wife was assaulted by her elder and bigger sister.

At near 70 yrs old I thought I was beyond reacting as I did but you never know your reaction when threatened by a much younger drunk guy.

[Mid]

Grandad , you rock .............................

[ColPyat]

If they situation is as described, than the OP is clearly in the right, and should receive compensation, as is customary, from the neighbor, as it was on his land, and the neighbor attacked first.

The only problems is, that it very much depends on the local power network, and power distribution in the particular village. There is no general rule, as often clan politics and relations supercede the Thai law. The basic of a village in Thailand is the clan rule, and authorities such as police are often very reluctant to interfere in those complex networks.

[ColPyat]

The Puyai Ban has been made aware of the incident,she was also previously aware of the problem with the cows as was the village assistant Puyai Ban who came to inspect damage earlier in the day.

By the way it is in the family,the guy is my brother in law, I unfortunately married into a family with a long history of fueds, up till now I have been able to keep my cool ,even when the wife was assaulted by her elder and bigger sister.

At near 70 yrs old I thought I was beyond reacting as I did but you never know your reaction when threatened by a much younger drunk guy.

Be very careful. This is not a good situation. Don't go anywhere alone until this has been cleared up, and be always surrounded by members of your family that can protect you. It would be not a bad idea if these people have arms closed by.

[chuchok]

I hope it all turns out well for you oz.

was it a good punch?

[ozzydom]

I hope it all turns out well for you oz.

was it a good punch?

Mate ,it was a right cross even a kiwi would be proud to land.

[ozzydom]

If they situation is as described, than the OP is clearly in the right, and should receive compensation, as is customary, from the neighbor, as it was on his land, and the neighbor attacked first.

The only problems is, that it very much depends on the local power network, and power distribution in the particular village. There is no general rule, as often clan politics and relations supercede the Thai law. The basic of a village in Thailand is the clan rule, and authorities such as police are often very reluctant to interfere in those complex networks.

Think you are on the money ColPyat,I just heard that the police are not getting involved until the blokes daughter comes back from Bangkok,maybe because the cows really belong to her.

[Acquiesce]

Be very careful. This is not a good situation. Don't go anywhere alone until this has been cleared up, and be always surrounded by members of your family that can protect you. It would be not a bad idea if these people have arms closed by.

Legs would also be an advantage.

[ColPyat]

Be very careful. This is not a good situation. Don't go anywhere alone until this has been cleared up, and be always surrounded by members of your family that can protect you. It would be not a bad idea if these people have arms closed by.

Legs would also be an advantage.

[dave111223]

This took place on our property.

I would think this is a very important point to make.

Thais (atleast from what my wife and her family say) seem to put a lot of stock in protecting yourself on your own properly.

When asking my wife "If you walk into the condo and found a guy stealing the TV, would it be ok to shoot him?" Her answer was a resounding "Yes!"

If it happened on his land you'd have problems (whether he started it not).

But i think your worries should not be whether your going to have problem with the police. This guy sounds seriously dangerous.

[ColPyat]

When asking my wife "If you walk into the condo and found a guy stealing the TV, would it be ok to shoot him?" Her answer was a resounding "Yes!"

Your wife is wrong. She would be put to trial for murder. I am familiar with cases in which in similar situations, when home owners caught intruders and have beaten them up badly, were charged with use of excessive force.

It would only be OK if the intruder would have a gun, and the gun she used on him in self defense would be a licensed firearm.

For that reason many Thais have in addition to their licensed gun an unlicensed one to be planted on the dead intruder. With advancing forensics though this is not as safe as it once was.

[tijnebijn]

oh well,like you state it i think you do not have to worrie about any consequences with police issues or whatsoever.One it happened on your wifes ground,he attacked you first,so it is self defence.another thing is that it is mentioned between the problems in the family.If it happens outside or in his place you could find yourself in a bit of trouble.When you hit somebody in their face it is 500 baht if they call the police.But in your case it would be rediculous and should not pay anything,not feel scared,he proberly may let you alone after the knockout.You can be proud of yourself and when the situation occurs maybe you could show the good side of yourself and try to make things well,but only if he will consider too.If it does the Thai will not let it go that far anymore and will go on.If you put the heat up,better not.Just be wise and try to make it up and that he was drunk and you feel sorry ,but let time heal first.Amazing old daddy you are.I know these things cause I stay very rural as well,and had some problems here until we decided to make it up and now everybody is smiling to each other,not that we like each other ,but the problems have been solved.Good luck.

[ozzydom]

Well I had better bring you all up to speed ,I was summoned to the Police station at5.30 pm and just left.

The guy I biffed turned up and demanded 10k compensation +500 bt to cover the 5 stitches he had over his eye, I had already given my version of events when he eventually arrived ,still pissed as a newt.

The policeman sent us outside while he interviewed the guy and after an hour called us back and said the guy would settle for 3k.

I asked the policeman ,what law allows a drunk to come on our property ,pick a blue and want payment when he comes up second best. Mr.P says you should have rung us, I said ,if he hadnt gone for the machete I wouldnt have decked him,Mr P says again you should have rung us,so I gave the argument away at that point

Any way the wife says ok we will pay you but we want damages of 5k for the mess your cows did to the pond walls at which point he says I want to ring my daughter in Bangkok.

Mr P rings her and gives her the gist of things and she tells him 1500bt and call it quits,the wife says ok (she was hungry and wanted out of there.

Now comes the scary bit, Mr.P tells the guy and his mate to go and us to stay, The conversation Mr.P had with the wife was related to me on the way back to the village,

I knew the daughter was a longtime bar girl,but Mr P said she is one nasty bit of work, it seems that she has an englishman "benefactor" with lots of money and no brains,she also has a thai husband (father of her two kids)

she also has a young Burmese boy friend who has a Glock Auto evidentally he was her pimp in Bangkok,

I had heard the story that he shot up a blokes car who cut him off in the main street here and that she paid 30k teamoney to get him off,but the big surprise was that Mr P admitted that his keeping the handgun was part of the payout.

To wrap it up we are advised to keep our eyes open and doors locked as Mr P wouldnt put it past this women to pay a smallish amount for me to have an accident,Oh he did give us his and his sergeants mobile numbers just in case.

So we will see how it plays out.

[Sing_Sling]

Ugh. . . bunch of bastards . . . The Land of Smiles?

[ColPyat]

To wrap it up we are advised to keep our eyes open and doors locked as Mr P wouldnt put it past this women to pay a smallish amount for me to have an accident,Oh he did give us his and his sergeants mobile numbers just in case.

So we will see how it plays out.

In case the guy shoots you, he will most definately not get off by paying 30 grand, if that makes you feel better.

But take that advice to heart.

Be at all times surrounded by members of your family, especially at night, don't go alone anywhere, even if it just to the market. Find out if there are some members of your wife's family who are of the nastier sort and who could talk sense to the other familiy. Get the Puyai involved.

This is not to be underestimated.

We had about two weeks ago a very brutal murder near my wife's village. Completely different situation, but just to show that those things happen here easily. Three guys were shot brutally, then stabbed, and the intestines wrapped around them.

[tijnebijn]

Very nasty family you got over there...........

You should ask for one of those red boxes,you pay a monthly amount,so the police come and checks your place daily if everything is allright.It scares people of,when they see the box ,they know the police comes and checks,they know your situation,make them come official so they have to do their job properly.

This story stinks a lot,so if things not work out,ask your wife how she would like to move a further at least 150km from this rotten place.maybe sell your place or leave it,a situation like this at your age is something you proberly want to avoid,staying near family in thailand is not good anyway,always makes you 'tjep hua' ,i prefer to visit sometimes and we are too busy,in your situation seems more then perfect.

[ColPyat]

Very nasty family you got over there...........

You should ask for one of those red boxes,you pay a monthly amount,so the police come and checks your place daily if everything is allright.It scares people of,when they see the box ,they know the police comes and checks,they know your situation,make them come official so they have to do their job properly.

Sorry, but that doesn't work, and especially not in a village.

The police has already given the best possible advice - be careful. Leaving the place is no solution either. It would mean tremendous loss of face. Moving 150 km would be even worse as there would be no protective shield of a family.

There are conflicts that one cannot run away from, and which have to be faced. This is Thailand's more uncomfortable side.

[tijnebijn]

Very nasty family you got over there...........

You should ask for one of those red boxes,you pay a monthly amount,so the police come and checks your place daily if everything is allright.It scares people of,when they see the box ,they know the police comes and checks,they know your situation,make them come official so they have to do their job properly.

Sorry, but that doesn't work, and especially not in a village.

The police has already given the best possible advice - be careful. Leaving the place is no solution either. It would mean tremendous loss of face. Moving 150 km would be even worse as there would be no protective shield of a family.

There are conflicts that one cannot run away from, and which have to be faced. This is Thailand's more uncomfortable side.

I live more then 8 years in one of those villages,and what you say about what cannot is part true and not true.

Maybe in their faces ,but sometimes you do not have to obey what they think is good or not,it is for your own protection,maybe you think differently,thats fine.And by the way this family not gives me the impression they are very supportive anyway,so why need them as a shield.And what care about losing face??If yourself do not care why bother what other people may think.If I feel not safe or happy,it is the best option,or just waiting they will hurt him,and the police will come and will do their job too late to tell.This situation is too heat up and these people are not reasonable,so thats why these kind advises from me .If you know so well,what you would do?

[ColPyat]

I live more then 8 years in one of those villages,and what you say about what cannot is part true and not true.

Maybe in their faces ,but sometimes you do not have to obey what they think is good or not,it is for your own protection,maybe you think differently,thats fine.And by the way this family not gives me the impression they are very supportive anyway,so why need them as a shield.And what care about losing face??If yourself do not care why bother what other people may think.If I feel not safe or happy,it is the best option,or just waiting they will hurt him,and the police will come and will do their job too late to tell.This situation is too heat up and these people are not reasonable,so thats why these kind advises from me .If you know so well,what you would do?

I would do what i did in a similar conflict in my wife's village. Death threads were thrown against me and my wife, a very nasty uncle of my wife took our side after seeing that i was not backing down, issued his own death thread at my opponent. My opponent backed down.

A few years down the line, my opponent does not live in the village anymore, lost face and had to move away, we have face, and because of that we have a very easy time in almost every aspect of life. In little conflicts we have support.

If you want, or have to reach anything within Thai society, you will have to accept that the face issue is very important also for you as a foreigner, and effects all aspects of life. People will neither help or protect you if you have no face, people will not want to be around you.

[Maizefarmer]

Ozzydom

Relax mate - not much is going to happen - believe me, the local cops wherever you live (and I presume its in a rural area if it involves cows) will at "worst" call you both in, hear both sides of the story. The person who made the "complaint" will ask for some money (usualy whatever it cost to get fixed up - if hospital treatment has been needed) - and that will be the end of the matter.

You will not be charged, you will not be thrown inside, you will not loose your visa ect ect ... the fact that you are a farang is quite beside the point - the copper is more than likely to treat you exatcly as he would any Thai, and the usual story will be something along the lines of "call us - don;t hit him"

You may consider a counter - ask for damages to your land - if there is any(!).

It may be an idea to ask a few questions locally (and discretely) about the guy you hit - just in case he's the revengeful type - but other than that, once the heat of argument has died down, that will be it. No harm in leaving it for a few days and going to have a chat with him and shaking hands if at all possible - but other than that, this sort of thing happens day in day out in rural areas and once it's over it's over - enbd of subject, carry on as normal.

MF

Wondering how the law works in Los when a farang decks a Thai, this morning I had an unfortunate run-in with a guy over his cows walking down the bung walls of our fish ponds.

This has been an ongoing problem,despite me putting barb wire fences up ,he just leaves his gate open and in they come.

Today they were in again and the wife and I were trying to shoo them out when he arrives full of whisky,he started a push and shove with me to leave his cows alone and it got really heated ,he grabbed a handful of my shirt and made a grab for a machete I keep at our bungalow,anyway to keep it short ,I gave him a left to drive him away from the chopper and then another which laid his eye open,after which he lost heart.

This took place on our property,I believe they have called the police , just wondering what happens now.

[tijnebijn]

I do understand about the facething.But this face you talk about ,for me is about correctness.When you are 'REP ROY'and have 'marejaat'you never do something wrong,and nobody thinks something wrong.

In the place I stay my wife is not native,so thats why I do not have these kind of problems,and proberly not understand so well like you do.My wife for instance is very different herself,she is a fashion designer and our house stands between farmers.She not cares about face or whatsoever,ofcourse being a thai she has her ways.

And sometimes you have to go here or there so people know you,and keep knowing you.But my wife prefers to take the gold behind the buddha instead of infront of it.Thas why I say,don't care to many(about face)but do not offence anyone offcourse,that is loosing.

Anyway i am happy i did not have any encounter you guys had,but also could have.And we handled it properly and like you say it they now do not want to loose face......

It is a part of life here,indeed,but I meant that sometimes in some situations they could also consider common sense ,or your culture or whatsoever,and the Thai,I think do not ask us to understand everything or do things all their way.But in a village things can go complicated when heated up.I respect how you handled your situation.

[ColPyat]

But in a village things can go complicated when heated up.

Oh yes, complicated and rather frightening, when things go wrong. Clan politics can be very complex.

[gummy]

Why be agressive in the first place ? As his cows had caused you problems in the first place then why not do the obvious. Buy a Bull, that would put an end to it. His cows would be totally shagged and the guy himself if he got close enough. Come on don't come down to the local village level use your brain.

Edited February 24, 2007 by gummy

[tijnebijn]

But in a village things can go complicated when heated up.

Oh yes, complicated and rather frightening, when things go wrong. Clan politics can be very complex.

If with the wrong people ,I can see what you talk about.I discovered also that somethings are impossible to arrange here,cause of village politics......All the 'wai'thing etc,you proberly stay here an awfull long time don't you copyat?

[ColPyat]

But in a village things can go complicated when heated up.

Oh yes, complicated and rather frightening, when things go wrong. Clan politics can be very complex.

If with the wrong people ,I can see what you talk about.I discovered also that somethings are impossible to arrange here,cause of village politics......All the 'wai'thing etc,you proberly stay here an awfull long time don't you copyat?

Not awefully long, but a while.

I am not living in the village though, i only go there often. That village is really way in the sticks, there are not even fixed phonelines.

We have lived though for two and a half years in a village closed to Bangkok, also way out in the sticks, no roads, only access over water. We also ran there into trouble with one guy who has set into his mind to take the farang's belongings, and his then young wife. We had no family in that village, but the locals offered us guns. I did refuse though, and left there, for this and other reasons. There we could leave without loss of face, we did not run, we moved in a few of my wife's brothers, the attempts on us stopped, and we moved after a few months well ordered.

I still go and visit regularly. The guy who gave us trouble is dead now, i believe.

I still would love to life there again, but the security situation is still not very good, most young people have moved into the city now, and that whole lifestyle at the klongs is dying there. Which is really heart breaking.