Two Russian Women Killed At Jomthien Beach

[DrDweeb]

"The victims, Miss Svirkova Liubov aged 25 and her friend Miss Tsimfer Tatiana aged 30, both Russian nationals, were in their beach clothes, and had been relaxing on the beach in the early morning. Both were shot with a 9mm pistol. Miss Liubov received 4 bullets, one in her left arm and three in her abdomen, Miss Tatiana received one in the back, both were shot at close range. Items on their table included a mobile phone, a pack of cigarettes, and two small bottles of Thai whisky; footprints showed the gunman had been wearing combat type shoes."

Supposition no. 1 million...

the bullet in miss Liubovs arm is the same one that killed Miss tatiana...a "through and through" as we CSI's call it(well,I WATCH csi,so surely that qualifies me to make half assed assumptions..

Apart from that,the scene looks really staged...by the killer(s)?.or the BiB? who knows,its a ropy situation though...started out looking fairly clean cut.

Now its like a can of worms with muddy water as sauce.

Did I observe a leg wound as well ?

Was one of the girls an earlier recipient of a straight left ?

Btw. dragging bodies is hard (and messy) work, and it would be next to impossible to cover it up on a sandy location by other than tidal means

Dweeb

[Tony Clifton]

It amazes me how some long-time farangs living in Thailand still don't understand that "face" is very important to many Thais. I think these girls caused the chair vendor to lose face EARLIER in the evening. He obtained a gun, perhaps his own or borrowed; and came back and shot them when very few other people were around.

Remember the traffic cop in Chiang Mai a couple of years ago? In the early morning hours (around 8am if memory is correct) a Thai driver yelled at him causing him to lose face. He promptly shot the driver, driver's wife, young teenager (girl) riding with them (she was on her knees begging not to be shot), and then he shot himself. Four dead in a few seconds over a loss of "face". Yet many posters on this forum poo-poo face as if it doesn't exist.

Russian mafia?

You're confused between face and mental health here...

I had a look at the murder site whilst riding by today. Loosly cordened off with tape and unguarded. Still a beer bottle and glass left there, but put down on the floor. There were NO holes on the deck chairs that I could see (possible I missed it, but I don't think so). I doubt a shot came from behind and I doubt anything can be used from the crime scene in future as anyone could tamper with it easily.

Ever noticed the usual stampede around a Thai crime scene? A real joke. Journalists paying tea money to get a few pics, onlookers, 60 policemen not related to the investigation, a brass parade of officers wanting to look good, not counting the dozens of unwanted rescue workers.

<deleted> are the chairs still doing there if they have been shot while sitting in them? Why is the crime scene not covered with a shelter, exposed to weather and public.?

[pampal]

Soft targets? Two female tourists shot dead in Pattaya are the latest victims of increasing violence against foreigners throughout Thailand.

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t070225.html

Am I wrong or is the bikini top open, on the dead person wearing the blue bikini on the left.

It looks like her top is unbuttoned or open somehow?

It seems like her left breast is showing somewhat.

Evidence of sexual assault maybe?

[Meg_2003]

Soft targets? Two female tourists shot dead in Pattaya are the latest victims of increasing violence against foreigners throughout Thailand.

http://www.cdnn.info/news/travel/t070225.html

Am I wrong or is the bikini top open, on the dead person wearing the blue bikini on the left.

It looks like her top is unbuttoned or open somehow?

It seems like her left breast is showing somewhat.

Evidence of sexual assault maybe?

It looks to me as though she is topless, with a towel around her. She has probably been swimming topless.. I can clearly see that she definately isnt wearing a bra/bikini top..

Also, you can get a larger view of the pictures at pattayadailynews.com , can see very clearly that she is naked from waist upwards..

And I know the thai's do not like this kind of thing in public..

Edited February 25, 2007 by Meg_ken2003

[ThailandTony]

I think you'll find that by the time the photographer had got there the BiB would have had a shufty and thats why the lady looks a little undressed, basically they were looking for the entry wound in the back when the crapperazzi rocked up and were not in a rush to cover her up as it lends creadence to the hooker holiday diversion.

[ThailandTony]

This is laughable.....in the photo where the lady in white is now on the ground they are putting the towel she had around her waist into her own bag from Mike Shopping Mall......since when do the BiB's get their evidence bags from an overpriced tourist trap in Central Pattaya....hmmm since right now by the looks of it....bunch of jokers!

[ThailandTony]

Those boot treads look like Timberlands to anyone else?

[deon]

Such a waste of two young lives ,I really do hope they get the person who did this.And i hope he gets the same done back to him, as what he did to those poor girls jail is to good for some folks,May they both rest in peace.

[ThailandTony]

Can anybody confirm if they leave all of the deckchairs and tables out at this location?....if they don't then these girls must have had company, you don't go to the beach and set-up a table and 6 chairs if there are only 2 of you. Also bottles of wine are not readily available at 7/11 last time I looked. These girls were comfortable enough to have swam, hence the towel around the midrif of the lady in white and no shorts/skirt. This looks like friendly girls get whacked by companion(s) doing something they planned to do and had done before. They have bikini's and towels, wine and a bottle of strong stuff from hotel or shop. You ever try getting out of a deck chair half cut/drugged (on drugs?....maybe) and now on the wrong end of a load of bullets! B4 anyone shouts me down for calling the girls junkies, please don't, I am not. Look at my earlier posts, nothing but sympathy for these poor girls. Just exploring the possibilities.

[libya 115]

*** UPDATE ***

Source: Pattaya Daily News: February 25th 2007

Anonymous tip off:

"the answer in las vegas gogo bar"

Link below:

Las Vegas Go-Go

[amarka]

Can anybody confirm if they leave all of the deckchairs and tables out at this location?....if they don't then these girls must have had company, you don't go to the beach and set-up a table and 6 chairs if there are only 2 of you. Also bottles of wine are not readily available at 7/11 last time I looked. These girls were comfortable enough to have swam, hence the towel around the midrif of the lady in white and no shorts/skirt. This looks like friendly girls get whacked by companion(s) doing something they planned to do and had done before. They have bikini's and towels, wine and a bottle of strong stuff from hotel or shop. You ever try getting out of a deck chair half cut/drugged (on drugs?....maybe) and now on the wrong end of a load of bullets! B4 anyone shouts me down for calling the girls junkies, please don't, I am not. Look at my earlier posts, nothing but sympathy for these poor girls. Just exploring the possibilities.

hi...

yes something strange...

if one was shot in the back and the other the stomach and they are both left sitting next to each other and neither of them moved after the first one was shot perhaps this suggests they were asleep?? drugged/drunk...... this was done with the same gun right ?

a 9mm is an expenisve gun anywhere........ makes one wonder.....

on holiday ? ... seems so for two weeks ?

crime scene is all messed up anyway....

i read a lot about all sorts of crimes on Thaivisa.... and there is always tons of speculation .... mafia, prostitutes...... i guess you guys in pataya know a bit more of what is going on down there....

does anything actually ever get solved...

should be relatively easy to prove if they were just on holiday - this would then exclude the mafia prostitution angle....?

amarka

[ThailandTony]

*** UPDATE ***

Source: Pattaya Daily News: February 25th 2007

Anonymous tip off:

"the answer in las vegas gogo bar"

Link below:

Las Vegas Go-Go

Interesting link, well played Libya, pours some wee wee on the fire of those suggesting nothing doing for russian ladies wanting work in the Thai tourist industry. I don't know if there was any substance behind it but the reference to Siberia is intersesting as others suggested that these ladies were from that part of Russia. I had a girlfriend from here when I worked in Russia, looked very similar to the blonde lady, thats why I have a heartfelt interest in this tragedy.

Edited February 25, 2007 by ThailandTony

[moskito]

*** UPDATE ***

Source: Pattaya Daily News: February 25th 2007

Anonymous tip off:

"the answer in las vegas gogo bar"

Link below:

Las Vegas Go-Go

Interesting link, well played Libya, pours some wee wee on the fire of those suggesting nothing doing for russian ladies wanting work in the Thai tourist industry. I don't know if there was any substance behind it but the reference to Siberia is intersesting as others suggested that these ladies were from that part of Russia. I had a girlfriend from here when I worked in Russia, looked very similar to the blonde lady, thats why I have a heartfelt interest in this tragedy.

Thanks to all....not all but 90% of posters here. I learned a lot here today....so it means lets buy a gun and go hunting russian girls in Thailand as they are all prostitutes......shame on you

Some good thoughts here at all.... no smoked cigarettes in the sand, table to clean, dont face the beach....

Anyway, even if the two girls are hookers doesnt make it right to shoot them, but I dont think they were. I hope the authorities will really work on it and bring ppl behind that to justice.....how many ppl do YOU know personally in Thailand wearing boots like that one the print is from in Thailand??????

I will not wonder if police find the beachchairguy they are looking for somewhere out of town, already shot hisself

this will come in handy and no further investigations necesary then.

what a shame for Thailand if they can not bring the murderer to justice in a week time

hoping it becomes popular all over the world, gives all tourists a clue how safe Thailand is really

[distortedlink]

I read eariler that the women were shot by a man of Thai appearance on a motor bike.

The man shot them and rode off.

This has the semblance (appearance) of a contract killing.

Could be mafia or drug related. Many East european prostitutes working in Thailand and all over the world.

One can only speculate at this point.

Edited February 25, 2007 by distortedlink

[Dradam]

Russian females, supplied by prostitution rings in Pattaya and Bangkok, have become a common sight since 1994. Although no one knows their exact number, some estimate there are at least 20 in Pattaya and hundreds flying in and out upon orders given mostly by wealthy Thai men. ("Pattaya: Murder, prostitution and tourists," Bangkok Post, 22 April 1998)

Perhaps it is not the Russian mafia but the Thai mafia or just a Thai politician with access to armed thugs.

Or maybe just a disgruntled Thai man who rents out chairs to Tourists.

I hope they find the killer(s) and bring them to justice.

[Dradam]

Marut, a well-known pimp in Pattaya, was introduced to Russian traffickers by a local expatriate restaurateur. The Russians needed a local link to clients, especially wealthy Thai men. Over 60% of Marut's clients are government officials, including policemen. Some do not pay for what Marut describes as "special service," because they are powerful men. The price for "special service" is 3,000 to 6,000 baht depending on the status of the client. ("Pattaya: Murder, prostitution and tourists," Bangkok Post, 22 April 1998)

[Dradam]

Many Russian crime syndicates have set up operations in prostitution, narcotics, and contract killings hidden behind legitimate businesses like bars and restaurants in Pattaya. (Superintendent of Pattaya police station Police Coronel Pinit Satyacharoen, Preecha Sa-Ardsorn, "Police worry Russian mafia getting stronger," The Nation, 9 April 1998)

For those who argue that the Russian mafia has no place in Pattaya.

[Mai Krap]

It amazes me how some long-time farangs living in Thailand still don't understand that "face" is very important to many Thais. I think these girls caused the chair vendor to lose face EARLIER in the evening. He obtained a gun, perhaps his own or borrowed; and came back and shot them when very few other people were around.

Remember the traffic cop in Chiang Mai a couple of years ago? In the early morning hours (around 8am if memory is correct) a Thai driver yelled at him causing him to lose face. He promptly shot the driver, driver's wife, young teenager (girl) riding with them (she was on her knees begging not to be shot), and then he shot himself. Four dead in a few seconds over a loss of "face". Yet many posters on this forum poo-poo face as if it doesn't exist.

Russian mafia?

You're confused between face and mental health here...

I had a look at the murder site whilst riding by today. Loosly cordened off with tape and unguarded. Still a beer bottle and glass left there, but put down on the floor. There were NO holes on the deck chairs that I could see (possible I missed it, but I don't think so). I doubt a shot came from behind and I doubt anything can be used from the crime scene in future as anyone could tamper with it easily.

Ever noticed the usual stampede around a Thai crime scene? A real joke. Journalists paying tea money to get a few pics, onlookers, 60 policemen not related to the investigation, a brass parade of officers wanting to look good, not counting the dozens of unwanted rescue workers.

<deleted> are the chairs still doing there if they have been shot while sitting in them? Why is the crime scene not covered with a shelter, exposed to weather and public.?

You've brought into play a very good point. Why was the area not blocked off and covered with a tent? If anything we can all agree that Thais love to put up tents and I cannot believe they have not caught onto this yet. Im trying to avoid humor here but it is a little ironic to say the least.

The forensics in Thailand outside of Khunying Porntip of whom I have a great respect for is an absolute joke. The Pattaya MIB would be better served to just hire a couple piss artists that have been pissing it up through a few years of CSI or find some old fart that watched every episode of Quincy before they expatriated! You have a major ffffing problem when you do not even bother to cover the hands till you can get them to a lab and check the fingernails. On a sidenote how many reading this believe they would have been thouroughly checked for male DNA to see who they might have been having sex with to find a witness or suspect? I can just hear the explanation,"this murder, no rape, no check sex."

[sonnyJ]

So has it been, so it is, so shall it be.

[steffi]

The Nation,

Is this their way of say it's probably a Thai national without actually saying it?

Security cameras captured a "tall man of indistinct nationality" parking a motorcycle at a beachside footpath, running up to the women and shooting them before fleeing.

I read eariler that the women were shot by a man of Thai appearance on a motor bike.

The man shot them and rode off.

This has the semblance (appearance) of a contract killing.

Could be mafia or drug related. Many East european prostitutes working in Thailand and all over the world.

One can only speculate at this point.

[Falux2]

One breast is uncovered of one of the girls, while 20-30 Thai men stand around.

[Scott]

My condolences to their families and friends. Whatever is behind this story, it is a senseless tragedy for those who are left behind.

[DisainaM]

ok, the police information style is not very helpfull

As the ladies were wearing heavy make-up, the question has arisen as to whether they were working in the prostitution industry, whilst they were in Pattaya. If this was the case, is possible that these murders were part of a gangland war, that could have erupted between rival groups, over control within this industry.

today, bkkpost

Reward offered for killer of Russian tourists

By Jerdsak Saengthongcharoen

Chon Buri - Police have offered a reward of 100,000 baht ($3,000) for the capture of the gunman who killed two Russian women tourists on Jomtien beach in Pattaya on Saturday.

Assawin Kwanmuang, chief of the Provincial Police Bureau 2, said the tourists, Livbov Svirkova, 25, and Tatiana Tsimfer, 30, were on a package tour and arrived in Pattaya on Feb 16. It was their first trip to the resort town.

They checked in at a hotel near the spot on the beach where they were found dead in their deckchairs. Each had been shot several times.

Pol Lt-Gen Assawin said records showed the two women were self-employed overseas and had nothing to do with any illegal businesses in Pattaya. They spent their entire time as tourists and there was no evidence they were involved in any business dealings here.

The commissioner said police investigators were looking to find out if they had become involved in a conflict with anyone in Pattaya.

Security cameras recorded what appeared to be an Asian man shooting the women from a distance. The killer did not touch the women's belongings.

The pictures needed to be examined more closely as the image of the man was taken from afar and was quite fuzzy, Pol Lt-Gen Assawin said. A reward of 100,000 baht was being offered for information leading to the capture of the killer.

Tens of thousands of Russian holidaymakers visit Pattaya every year.

We will see, if the shooting from the distance was just a set up,

cause there where 2 dead bodies placed,

both without any defence reaction,

when they were killed.

Edited February 26, 2007 by DisainaM

[Falux2]

Maybe we should wonder, rather than constantly saying they were prostitutes, (wait, please let me open up a little paragraph here. Insulting dead people is about the cheapest thing a retard can do) we should accept that they were either tourists or prostitutes and find the shooter.

Why do some of you insist that they were prostitutes? Are you proud of the fact that you did not only do Asians, but even Russians?

You're Pattaya people, you've all had whores. Maybe almost all of us had.

I've had a russian gf who was a dancer and probably did more services than I liked before I met her - she was a great person and super loyal, as well as super arrogant - she almost looked like one of the two - so before posting your idiotic comments, please understand that some people might have loved those persons.

I guess I'm talking to a wall.

[LaoPo]

Maybe we should wonder, rather than constantly saying they were prostitutes, (wait, please let me open up a little paragraph here. Insulting dead people is about the cheapest thing a retard can do) we should accept that they were either tourists or prostitutes and find the shooter.

Why do some of you insist that they were prostitutes? Are you proud of the fact that you did not only do Asians, but even Russians?

You're Pattaya people, you've all had whores. Maybe almost all of us had.

I've had a russian gf who was a dancer and probably did more services than I liked before I met her - she was a great person and super loyal, as well as super arrogant - she almost looked like one of the two - so before posting your idiotic comments, please understand that some people might have loved those persons.

I guess I'm talking to a wall.

No, you're right. It doesn't matter what kind of tourists they were; they are (sorry, were) human beings.

We all are.

LaoPo

[Phil Conners]

It seems this thread collects a lot of people who never were in Pattaya.

I believe the old Las Vegas agogo closed long ago. Instead they now have an agogo on 2nd floor right in the middle of walking street, with a bit show window with changing girls dancing all night and a big sign on the window saying "European Girls". NO attempt is done to hide this is a "European" (Read: Russian) agogo.

For anyone else who doubt the nature of all the single russian female tourists in Pattaya, I suggest you take a walk down walking street any night, they are all over the place.

It has nothing to do with disrespect for the dead, it's just the way things are here. Instead of the PC attitude come over and look for yourself.

[Falux2]

It seems this thread collects a lot of people who never were in Pattaya.

I believe the old Las Vegas agogo closed long ago. Instead they now have an agogo on 2nd floor right in the middle of walking street, with a bit show window with changing girls dancing all night and a big sign on the window saying "European Girls". NO attempt is done to hide this is a "European" (Read: Russian) agogo.

For anyone else who doubt the nature of all the single russian female tourists in Pattaya, I suggest you take a walk down walking street any night, they are all over the place.

It has nothing to do with disrespect for the dead, it's just the way things are here. Instead of the PC attitude come over and look for yourself.

I'm in Thailand for many years, and the cheap, ridiculous decadent human beings and dogs I saw in Pattaya made me decide not to visit that place ever again. Not even the whores look good. I went with my GF, and they still proposed their services, even though they looked 100 times worse or were ladyboys.

Pattaya is a good concept. It keeps those who love it really cheap from those who give a shit.

If what you say is true, then that would be a good point to start looking for the killer!

[kurgen]

We will see, if the shooting from the distance was just a set up,

cause there where 2 dead bodies placed,

both without any defence reaction,

when they were killed.

Good point, if they can show CCTV footage of the shooting they must also be able to show these 2 ladies walking to the same spot unaided.

Whatever they were and whatever happened, this is still a despicable act.

Condolences to their families and R.I.P.

[atwr]

You fellows aren't just having a little conversation among yourselves, thousands of people around the world read these boards. Besides being dead these girls have the added luxury of being judged by a bunch of drunks. I don't doubt that a good number of you know all about russian prostitutes.

[Prakanong]

The jumping to conclusions about them being prostitutes part is just par for the course for the hang em and flog em brigade who are mostly paranoid conspiracy theorist dreamers.

Yes there are prostitutes from Russia in Thailand but the fact is most young women who visit from there are just 2 week package tourists.

Even if they were hookers they did not deserve this but thatpoint has yet to be proved but all th armchair Columbo's or CSI fans have already closed this case - they can even make definite assertions from crime scene shots (oops should have said crappy reporters crime scene shots)

I know a lot of you are bored living in Thailand and do not have much to keep you busy but a nice hobby might be better than sitting cooped up waiting for the next case you wil solve.