ตัวกูฃองกู

[garro]

I have just begun reading a book (very very slowly) by พุทธทาสภิกฃู (Puttatad pikku) called ตัวกูฃองกู (dtua guu khong guu). I now that this basically means my body but was just wondering about the usage of กู. I always thought that this was a very vulgar word and not to be used, yet here it is in a book by a monk.

Is the word actually that vulgar?

[meadish_sweetball]

I gather this may be the same monk I heard about recently, who has become a celebrity partially for using this word - unless this venerable father also heard of him and thought the concept was a good one.

I guess he gets away with it because he is an old and respected monk. (EDIT> If this is indeed the same monk, he defends his usage of กู with that it is an ancient word, and he thinks ancient things should be preserved.)

The pronoun has become vulgar only with time. In the past it was an accepted way of referring to oneself, and not in the least vulgar (I am not aware of the exact time, though - as a tentative guess it was shunned starting with the modernization process in the mid-nineteenth century, but this is really just a guess).

Among very close friends, the word is used with gusto, as a sort of bonding marker, paired with มึง for 'you'.

It is used on TV without being censored - in particular for comic effect.

BTW, are you sure about the spelling of พุทธทาสภิกฃู ?

[garro]

Thanks Meadish, I knew you would know about this.

I have checked the spelling again and พุทธทาสภิกฃู is how he spells it. The picture on the front of the book actually looks a bit like Buddhadhassa.

[Johpa]

Thanks Meadish, I knew you would know about this.

I have checked the spelling again and พุทธทาสภิกฃู is how he spells it. The picture on the front of the book actually looks a bit like Buddhadhassa.

Well then, the spelling and the picture would seem to match.

[TK_onboard]

The monk that wrote the book that Garro mentioned is พุทธทาสภิกขุ aka ท่านพุทธทาส He is very famous and well respected monk. As far as I remember he did not used the word กู regularly, he usually called himself อาตมา. However I believe the name of the book is making statement and create more impact with regard to its context (i.e. one should not attach to one's self, or something like that, I am not that good in understanding this things. ) BTW He passed away 15 years ago. see here.

ฺBut I think the monk that meadish_sweetball referred to is หลวงพ่อคูณ. He is the one that uses มึง กู regularly. His reasons are it is an ancient language, and that he is genuine and he need no formality and done in nice way to show that he does not bother with ranks or statuses.

[aanon]

The monk that wrote the book that Garro mentioned is พุทธทาสภิกขุ aka ท่านพุทธทาส He is very famous and well respected monk. As far as I remember he did not used the word กู regularly, he usually called himself อาตมา. However I believe the name of the book is making statement and create more impact with regard to its context (i.e. one should not attach to one's self, or something like that, I am not that good in understanding this things. ) BTW He passed away 15 years ago. see here.

I don't know much about this monk...i believe that amongst other things he was a teacher to a very famous monk, perhaps that monk was หลวงพ่อคูณ? however, i have recently been reading a book of short quotations from his various works. ตัวกูของกู comes up, but he's not talking about himself:

eg.

ความกลัวทุกชนิน

มันมีมูลมาจากความกลัวที่จะสูญเสียตัวเอง

สูญเสียอะไร ๆ ของตัวกูและของกู นี้จึงกลัว

ฉะนั้นถ้าเราทำลายความยึดมั่นถือมั่นในตัวกู-ของกู

มันจะทำลายความกลัวหมดสิ้น

all forms of fear

have an source in the fear of losing oneself

losing something of 'myself and my stuff'

therefore if we destroy the attachment to 'myself-my stuff'

this will completely destroy fear

i think of it as ท่านพุทธทาส using the words of the common person to talk about what is esentially egoism and greed. nobody should be offended; just make sure you're not egoistic or greedy and instantly the monk is no longer talking about you!

back to garro's original question...กู is not really that vulgar, but it is only appropriate in very specific social circumstances and arguably only for native thai speakers. the usage conventions are broken sometimes, with an aim to demonstrate anger, create humour, etc.

all the best.

[aanon]

couple of corrections from my post above:

ความกลัวทุกชนิด

all forms of fear

perhaps for ตัวกู-ของกู instead of 'myself-my stuff', i should have used 'me-mine'.

all the best.

Edited February 24, 2007 by aanon

[sutnyod]

Among very close friends, the word is used with gusto, as a sort of bonding marker, paired with มึง for 'I'.

Slip of the tongue? Mueng means "you".

[meadish_sweetball]

Yes, it was. Thanks for the correction.

[kriswillems]

Here's another book from him in english. It's available online.

http://www.buddhanet.net/budasa.htm

[garro]

Here's another book from him in english. It's available online.

http://www.buddhanet.net/budasa.htm

Sorry Kris but I'm confused. This is a link for a book by Buddhadassa.

[kriswillems]

Garro, that's because the book you're reading was written by him.

Buddhadasa Bhikkhu is a bad transliteration of พุทธทาสภิกข

A better transliteration would be: Phut-tha-thaad Pik-khu

So, it's one and these same person.

This proves again that transliterations lead to confusion.

Edited February 27, 2007 by kriswillems

[garro]

Thanks Kris, I actually did think he looked like Buddhadassa. I feel like a bit of a gobshite now.

I always wondered why Thai people never knew who I was talking about when I mentioned Budddhadassa.

[meadish_sweetball]

I assumed you knew. Most Thai words derived from Sanskrit and Pali are transliterated into Roman letters with more regard to their Pali/Sanskrit origins than their pronunciation in Thai.

karma = kam

dharma = tham (or tham-ma)

Bhumibol = phuu-mi-phon

suwarnabhumi = su-wan-na-phuum

[kriswillems]

พุทธทาสภิกข

พุทธ = budhha

ทาส = slave

ภิกข = tittle for a monk (from sanskrit)

Monk that is a slave of Buddha

Edited February 27, 2007 by kriswillems

[Richard W]

ภิกข = tittle for a monk (from sanskrit)

Are you sure it's a loan from Sanskrit bhik.su? It seems totally assimilated to Pali phonology.

[kriswillems]

ภิกข = tittle for a monk (from sanskrit)

Are you sure it's a loan from Sanskrit bhik.su? It seems totally assimilated to Pali phonology.

No, I am not sure at all. I am just studying Thai at a beginners level. I was too fast making conclusions.

By the way, I made another mistake. It should be ภิกขุ not ภิกข, isn't it?

Do you know why many sources on the internet talk about พุทธทาสภิกข and not พุทธทาสภิกขุ ?

[meadish_sweetball]

My guess is that the vowel sign ุ has simply fallen out. When copying a part of Thai text, any 'satellites', like ุ ู ่ ิ ื etc. that occur at the end of the word or phrase, often is left behind. And when entered into a small text box such as in this forum, one often cannot catch if they were included or not.