Before you roll your eyes and say “Oh God not another Thai bashing thread” please bear with me because I am making this in the spirit of seeking advice from older chaps here, advice that is aimed towards my specific demographic which is – young(er) financially well-off guys without a family. I hope the mods don’t take this down because I genuinely feel like I’m at a crisis point and don’t know what to do or who I can talk to about this.

 

I’m a guy in his early 30s and I moved to Thailand about 5 years ago with the purpose of starting a business with my Thai girlfriend. In those 5 years my quality of life has deteriorated substantially to the point where simply getting out of bed to make coffee and facing existence is dreadfully painful to me. The reason for this degradation as far as I can see is my inability to adapt culturally to the Thai mentality. It’s important to note here that I’m not a stranger to new cultures as I’ve been a constantly moving expat virtually all of my life, with most of my time being spent in Asia. So I’m not here with some desire to impose Western ideals or concepts onto others and get people to act differently, however I do have my own set of values when it comes to what it means for people to treat each other in a decent, dignified manner. It’s difficult to state the matter clearly without “posting slurs, degrading or overly negative comments directed towards Thailand etc” but what I can say is that the prevailing attitudes of the population of this particular country are in total opposition to those particular values of mine, and that this opposition is set to a degree far greater than in any other place I’ve been to. Put simply – the positive elements of Thailand are ones that don’t matter to me (I don’t care for booze, babes, interesting lizards, spicy food or “sabai sabai” living) whilst the negative elements truly hit me (I DO care about the toxic air/food, garbage everywhere, lazy half-assed attitudes, rampant soi dogs, lack of accountability, singing and speaker boom boom into the night, selfish murderous driving, poor construction/electrical installations, neighbours burning plastic garbage, lethargic shop staff shlep shlopping around or playing on their phones, constant lying to save face, bikes racing on the highway at 3am and the police doing nothing about it, etc etc – I think you get the point) and after 5 years this imbalance is truly taking its toll.

 

I used to speak Thai after studying it for 1 year at a language school but gave up and stopped communicating with Thais altogether after realising that most conversations would either a): consist of banal topics like spicy food and the weather, or b): get me in trouble because I now had the ability to speak my mind. I don’t think I’m a bitchy toxic individual or anything – at 30+ years of expatriating around and integrating into various cultures this is the first time this has happened.

 

Another thing I’ve noticed is a palpable feeling of being ignored despite being an obvious foreigner in a semi-rural area. Now, I’m not saying this as someone who is offended or anything like that, but to me it is a clear indication of total disinterest in anything foreign which speaks to a peculiarity of the Thai character. Let me give you a story to illustrate what I mean.

 

Me and my girlfriend recently joined a community in a street where an annual tradition is held by the residents and this tradition involves getting together to dig a small plot of farmland and plant some crops as a symbolic gesture of unity. They had been doing it for some years and we were the first people from outside that community to have joined this event. About 30 people showed up and someone provided hoes so we all started digging, and then planting and watering. The work took about 4 hours and we all worked very close to each other (it was a small plot so we were within arm’s reach of each other). After it was over everyone kind of dispersed and went home. The thing that stuck out the most from that event was that the entire time nobody had said a word to us (other than an occasional dig here, not there, etc). It was completely bizarre to me. Like I said I’m not offended at the lack of interest, I don’t have lofty expectations of being treated like royalty, but if I was in my home country and our small rural community of 30 people had a similar event and two newcomers (one from another city and the other one being their partner who happened to be a foreigner) joined for the first time you can be sure there would be all sorts of excitement, questions, chit-chat. Not a “Dig here, not there”.

 

I recounted that story to my father and he looked at me very seriously and said “In Europe if someone does that to you it would be considered an incredibly rude gesture. You would not see that person again.” My similar experiences of rural areas in Asia echo this expectation. There would be an introductory get-together “Thank you for coming everyone, we’re here to blah blah blah” and a final “Job well done!” (which was then almost always followed by drinking together). Anytime I’ve joined rural events like this in other Asian countries the locals were pleasantly bewildered and surprised to see a white guy in their midst. We always had funny stereotypical questions, banter, etc. Here in Thailand? Crickets. Dig here, not there. Go home. 

 

Another situation where this disinterest is apparent to me is anytime a mutual Thai acquaintance meets me and my girlfriend. This must have happened hundreds of times and always it is the same – the person starts a discussion with my girlfriend in Thai about something, occasionally they would acknowledge me by turning and asking “He speaks Thai?” to which I would reply “Yeah a bit, but I’m not that good” after which the person would say something like “oh OK” and then just continue talking with my girlfriend. There are never any efforts to ask anything about me. Again, I’m so used to this that being ignored like this is not offensive to me in any way, but it is just depressing to see over and over and over again this behaviour that communicates a disinterest in foreign things and would be considered a rude gesture in most parts of the world.

 

Basically at this point I’m beyond tired of the sort of attitudes I come across. Telling the termite pesticide sprayer who sprays chemicals over everyone’s footwear that he’s done something wrong and should make the 5 second effort next time to move the shoes out of the way results in the calm self-composed façade flying off into the stratosphere. Telling the gardeners who remove a palm tree by chopping through the base, then tying a cable to its top and having 5 people pull it towards them until it crashes down that their idea might be a terrible one results in the calm self-composed façade flying off into the stratosphere , despite the blood and broken aircon units standing as testament to stupidity. Telling a company employee that the mistake they’ve continually made over and over and over again is something that could be easily prevented with a bit of common sense results in an ego explosion and stormy exit. Telling the dentist to stop laughing and joking with her co-workers and instead focus on drilling the correct tooth results in a scowl and a purposefully botched filling. Telling the taxi driver that it would be nice if he could pay attention to the road by taking the iPad off his speedometer when he’s screaming down the highway because I can’t pay him if I’m dead results in angry threats and shouts. Telling the neighbour that simply having 10 dogs is not a valid reason to let them all roam free to crap in people’s gardens and terrorize people’s pets results in an impressively confrontational facial expression of bewilderment. It goes on and on.

 

As a result of my inability to assimilate I’ve become as reclusive as I can. I still see my staff everyday but my girlfriend is mostly doing that part of the company management now so I mostly just see her. I’ve started drinking regularly to take the edge off and I’ve gained significant weight although I don’t eat much. My sleep cycle is wrecked and I have no social circle anymore since going outside just makes me even more depressed. At this time in the year I have the added perk of coughing, sinus pains and dry eyes from all the burning that goes on to add on top. Most days I oscillate between getting drunk enough to power through the workloads, constantly thinking how I should get out of here and simply just not wanting to wake up the next day. As soon as I leave the country for a trip I'm back to my normal functioning self. The moment I check in on the return flight the dread starts up.

 

Now, I would have left long ago if it hadn’t been for two very important things – my girlfriend and the business that we started together. As far as the relationship goes it is absolutely perfect in every way. I’ve talked to her about my issues with her country and she’s been as supportive as she can be, but at the end of the day she can’t do anything to help me. She also has deep ties to her family here and would not consider moving abroad which I understand completely. The other thing which is our business has turned out to be a very hands-on enterprise. There is an unbelievable amount of work to do for it and if I’m not here to take care of it she won’t be able to keep up with it. We’ve invested so much time and money in the infrastructure and staff training here, not to mention that our main market is here, so it would be very sad to let it go at this point. I feel trapped because I don't want to let her down but I'm also seriously hating my life here every day and there's a constant voice in the back of my head urging me to let it all go and not waste my best years in a place that I can't stand.

 

Basically I was hoping that some older guys here can shed some advice on what I should be doing at this point. I know that assuming voluntary responsibility and bettering oneself through challenging environments is one thing..... but what about enjoying one’s own life? How does one know when that balance has been thrown out the window? What would you do in my situation? Would you power through and try to make the best of it and continue to cope with being a fish out of water? Is 5 years too short to know these things and will it get better? Or would you cut your losses and decide to seek greener pastures?

All replies appreciated, thanks.

There is no way I'm reading all of that, and I don't care.  But I'm glad you feel it's important to share with us your life.....well, not really, it's rather narcissistic.  I'm older, and i'll give you easy advice.  Your LIFE is in your 20's, and you went off that path....so mistake number 1.  leave home country means leaving friends (super important in your 20's) and identity.  Then you can't get a "normal" job, or a job that gives you any self-esteem from a farang.  But, whatever, you ran from hard life and then made the easy life hard.  Number 3, you know you must leave but you stay.  stay for the business?  lol.  ridiculous.  stay for the gf?  seems like an excuse.  so you need to cut all ties, try to keep her if you can, and leave.  be a man, do what you know you must do.   NOBODY I ever met hated their home country like you hate this country, so the timing was wrong when you came here.  wait until you are retired.  hopefully you have a degree.  maybe go back and get an advanced degree.  i have zero pity on you if you stay.  your life seems worse than death, so leaving can only be an improvement.  hopefully you have a high IQ, good health, and energy to actually work a real job with real peers.  before i was 35, i never ever would have left my home country.  but that's just me.  anyhow, nobody will care except you.  if you want to be a super loser, fine.    when i was 25-30, i was a VP, making good money, too many friends, etc......then after i had my identity, money, friends, experience, i made different choices.  seems like you gave up way too early in life.....get back in the game.    

Edited February 1, 20197 yr by puukao

If I wanted "War and Peace" I'll read the original.

if this is how you truly feel then it cant be much fun for you girlfriend either. I would advise that its time to go, if she wants to stay then that's her decision. good luck.

20 minutes ago, Lost Bob said:

I’m a guy in his early 30s

Your not that young.

i know this may not be much help, i came to Thailand at the age of 58 to retire. With the exception of drinking, which I don't do, I felt the same way you do just going about my daily routine. I had to lower my expectation so much and just not care about getting my expectations met with much of anything.

 

I am older than you and I am done. So I don't own property, I don't own a business, I don't try to build anything, find much of anything I am looking for, (because you can't) and stopped trying to help my maid to understand a better way of doing something. I have never found anyone who can clear the weeds properly from my yard. They can't paint, water a plant, or follow the most basic instructions. I rent the house I am in and had a extra A/C installed and they did such a poor job if defies belief.    

 

Sorry I have no advise for you only to let you know you are not alone in your reaction to Thailand. 

 

Except you are too young to be here and to be unhappy and don't try to apply your expectations to Thais.

And I am sure you love your girlfriend but everyone has to learn to take care of themselves in a relationship. 

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 20197 yr by NCC1701A

33 minutes ago, Lost Bob said:

Basically I was hoping that some older guys here can shed some advice on what I should be doing at this point.

Don't interact with them apart from sex & simple commerce.

If you need more company, pump out some kids.

Job done!

Edited February 1, 20197 yr by BritManToo

I think I can speak for a few of the old fellows.  Your post is typical.  Go home and grow up, get an education and see some of life and travel some more.  Come back at 60.  You will have the answers to your questions.  Good luck grasshopper. 

Way too long to read all, but I moved here when I was 25, basically same age as you.

 

Wih the same intentions of opening a biz.

 

Just like you I found it hard to impossible to accept and adapt, so I ended up drinking and parting for good 2-3 years.

 

Even brain dead from alcohol I still did not really accept or tolerated much.

 

when I opened biz, is when I learned to adapt and accept . This is when I learned that you can not and will not change anything and must go with a flow.

 

It is only when I started to work so closely with the locals that I started to accept local ways and understand it.

 

speaking Thai was a positive and a negative as the more I understood the less sense half of it was making .

 

moral of the story is, start working closely with the locals and you will get better insight and while many things you will find hard to accept , you will learn to understand and get over it.

 

saying all of the above , opening biz was the biggest mistake of my life, because in 10-12 years I went bald, grey and lost interest in most things as all I do is work. If I do not work, I loose money. 

 

on the bright side, not much these days shocks me. Do I hate my life? Yes, but what would be the alternative ? Drink and be drunk on daily basis or just waste life away in room.

 

cheer up, all normal people go through this stage , it will pass

 

43 minutes ago, Lost Bob said:

Put simply – the positive elements of Thailand are ones that don’t matter to me (I don’t care for booze, babes, interesting lizards, spicy food or “sabai sabai” living) whilst the negative elements truly hit me (I DO care about the toxic air/food, garbage everywhere, lazy half-assed attitudes, rampant soi dogs, lack of accountability, singing and speaker boom boom into the night, selfish murderous driving, poor construction/electrical installations, neighbours burning plastic garbage, lethargic shop staff shlep shlopping around or playing on their phones, constant lying to save face, bikes racing on the highway at 3am and the police doing nothing about it, etc etc – I think you get the point) and after 5 years this imbalance is truly taking its toll.

it just sounds like you don't like Thailand. Sell or close your business and try to disengage from your girlfriend gracefully and leave. 

1 hour ago, Lost Bob said:

As a result of my inability to assimilate I’ve become as reclusive as I can. I still see my staff everyday but my girlfriend is mostly doing that part of the company management now so I mostly just see her. I’ve started drinking regularly to take the edge off and I’ve gained significant weight although I don’t eat much. My sleep cycle is wrecked and I have no social circle anymore since going outside just makes me even more depressed. At this time in the year I have the added perk of coughing, sinus pains and dry eyes from all the burning that goes on to add on top. Most days I oscillate between getting drunk enough to power through the workloads, constantly thinking how I should get out of here and simply just not wanting to wake up the next day. As soon as I leave the country for a trip I'm back to my normal functioning self. The moment I check in on the return flight the dread starts up.

try your best to take alcohol out of the equation. that might seem simplistic, but it is only adding to your depression. being reclusive, loss of sleep and weight gain are all signs of depression. try to add some exercise into your routine and eat a diet to fight depression. I know it is hard to do when you work all the time. 

 

i you give it another chance, stop drinking, tell your girlfriend to delegate more responsibly to other people and try to get a break. Tell her it has to be done or you cant go on. 

 

we are all suffering with the pollution in all it forms. I am in Hua Hin next to the ocean and my nose still bothers me here.

 

as for getting out of here like anything you need to make a plan and execute it.

 

 

Edited February 1, 20197 yr by NCC1701A

Blasted all that out on a keyboard and he wonders why no one speaks to him. 

That's a dilemma alright. Many of the frustrations you voiced are almost universally experienced by foreigners here. Older expats sometimes become reclusive, basically biding their time until it's all over, and father time puts them out of their misery.

 

But, you're still young, and if I were you I'd seriously consider repatriation, maybe with your girlfriend, maybe without her. I'd definitely cut back on the sauce: not good for your health, your disposition or your energy level.

 

Semi-rural/rural Thailand describes my environment as well, and most of the cultural frustrations you voiced are not going to be changing any time soon. If you can't adapt to that environment, and it's causing problems with your health, the only solution is to change the environment. Because of your young age and you having time to recover those losses, losing the business sunk costs would not be my biggest concern. My health and future happiness would be my only priorities. Good luck to you.

Edited February 1, 20197 yr by Gecko123

I am approaching my 30. I came here last year and I am starting a business with my girlfriend.

Am I destined to become what you are??

I will keep this simple/short.  You're NOT alone.  Grow some balls, NO, this is not an insult.  In other words, accept not fight/confront/argue/etc about things you cannot change, ie, death.  It is what it is, accept or decline.  Your choice!  Girlfriend:  if your meant to be, you will outlast everything.  That's a fact. Business:  sell it/keep it/or do what you like.  Staying in Thailand, re-read all posts including mine. , or not - your choice.  Then move on.  Go to another country/place/planet...you can always return - if you want or NOT.  Then reflect and learn.  There is NO failure in life except to "give up".  So take chances, explore, and learn...this is going to be your "one" chance...so live for something or die for nothing...move, lead, follow, or get out of the way, but do something!  Good luck! And remember, no one has the answers you seek, only you do.  Go learn and explore, if you don't like something change what you can, accept what you can't...

Edited February 1, 20197 yr by mike787

If the stones have not dropped by 30 years of age, they never will.

move on

you are young and confused, expecting the country to adapt to your way of life is not the solution you are the one that has to adjust to the country where you decided to move, Thailand or anywhere else,  there are a couple of steps to make it easy to adjust: be open minded,  don't forget your old friends,  know what you're getting into and expect the unexpected, I have been living put of my own country for the past 44 years, and a friend once told me """"... in order to get the most out of your expat experience, you need to break out of your comfortable little cocoon ...""

1 hour ago, puukao said:

Your LIFE is in your 20's, and you went off that path....so mistake number 1.  leave home country means leaving friends (super important in your 20's) and identity. 

Rubbish. I left the UK aged 21, I've been working overseas all my life, firstly in Africa, then South America, a stint in Europe, followed by Asia, then Russia and now back to Asia. I'm now in my early 60s, my family and home base is Thailand, but I work regionally. I'm happy in Thailand, sure it has its issues, but I've seen plenty of places worse, and over the years I've learnt to adapt and relax.

 

Life is what you make of it, if you're not happy somewhere, weigh up the pros & cons, and if you can't see a way to fix it, move on. There's no point moaning, and drinking isn't going to fix it, it usually makes things worse.

Good thing the op is not the city riding on public transport. The last seat to be taken will almost always be the one next to mr foreigner, and as soon as another becomes vacant the one sitting next to you will move. could not give a toss but it shows you what they think about us.

why not go home for 3 months a year, that gives you something to look forward to and a nice break from what is a feudal hierarchical social system where they are all wai ing the ones above them deserved or not, Semi rural as well, horrible as it's isolating and boring.

26 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Blasted all that out on a keyboard and he wonders why no one speaks to him. 

Maybe he had Speech to Text software.    LOL

I've met quite a few older ex pats expressing the same sentiments as yourself but they have not started businesses that rely on Thais to be successful. They are all retired living on pensions and savings.

 

I could not remember if you told us your location but I'd move to somewhere like Pattaya where you can make falang friends. My pals who live in the rural areas nearly all come to hate it and those who simply just visit the boondocks can't wait to get back to the comparative civilisation of Pattaya or Bangkok.

 

It makes no sense living a life that is making you become an overweight depressive alcoholic.

 

If your girl won't come with you leave her behind because she can't love you that much if she knows the effect your current life is having on you. Most of 'em put their families before any falang anyway. Deep down they are only with a falang for any financial benefits such a union can bring not just them but often their families as well.

 

 

Edited February 1, 20197 yr by yogi100

Quite a sad story, as those that are much younger searching for Utopia rarely find it.

 

The answer is really trying to understand what is the utmost importance to yourself and your happiness before you drink yourself to death?

 

First, 99% of the women in Thailand are very close to their families. If you are not #1 with her, and she puts her family and business ahead of you wanting to move, that says it all right there. Perhaps the fact she is so caught up in the business and her family doesn't leave you with the relationship you need right now.

 

Her contentedness and failure to recognize how much this life is affecting you is a sure sign she values other things more than you.

 

I owned a business in Thailand for 10 years. At around the 10 year mark I was looking for a way out.

 

My goal had always been to return to the US at some point to get my family a first world education.

 

The Great Flood of 2011 made my decision easy. My wife, bless her heart, she wanted to move to the USA without any hesitation.

 

So we did and we have a great life. I can use these productive years back in Corporate America to buy anything we want, save for the future, we have educated friends and tons of places to visit in the US and the nearby Caribbean Islands. If you have the money, anything is possible and you do not have to resort to things that make you unhappy.

 

One thing I have learned here on Thai Visa?

 

There are lessons learned from the stories of older gents that rarely have enough money to get by.

 

Over the past 20 to 30 years, Thailand has changed drastically, increased costs, coups, congestion, lower currency rates and now Bangkok Air pollution.

 

The older gents that have been in Thailand that sold up to move to Thailand on a fixed pension aren't living quite as well as they were in the beginning.

 

However, decisions they made 30 years ago did not account for what the future Thailand would look like or behave like. Because no one can predict the future and I would guess not many gave a thought to 30 years down the road.

 

These folks are now stuck in Thailand and some make the best of things and some know they are trapped and can't do anything about it but tough it out.

 

Imagine you wasted all your working years in Thailand, so that when you do get to 60, you don't even have a pension or anything to retire on, because that is the life you are facing. Not to many people thinking that far ahead and never plan for living 20 or 30 years after all the work stops.

 

People these days rarely have a clue how much money they need to save if they actually want to retire someday?

 

You should be thinking about that as well and what can you do, education, professional work, etc. the next 30 years so that you will be able to retire someday?

 

Imagine how high the costs around the world will be 30+ years from now?

 

You are still young enough to start over and make a great life for yourself, once the self-pity is gone and you grab the bull of life by the horns.

 

Life is not easy my friend, however, you have a long, long way to go.

 

You really need to ask yourself what it is you want to do for the next 30 years and go do it.

 

Change can be a good thing.

 

Be brave and move forward to something that will give you happiness, even if it means saying goodbye.

 

 

 

 

Like a sword with two edges, Thailand has a fun side and a "flip side".  The fun side attracts us.  The flip side tests our cultural differences to the core sometimes.  

 

I think you already know what you can and cannot change.  And what you need to do to rectify the situation.  You just want some of us here to validate this solution for you.

 

At least you don't have any kids.  You may think you are married to your job, but the only decision that needs a little planning is whether to sell the business, or just hand it over to the GF (soon to be ex-GF???) and walk away.   You don't have to continue to suffer for no reason.

53 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I think I can speak for a few of the old fellows.  Your post is typical.  Go home and grow up, get an education and see some of life and travel some more.  Come back at 60.  You will have the answers to your questions.  Good luck grasshopper. 

I'm not sure his post is 'typical'.

 

Sure there's quite a few foreigners living in Thailand and each one of those foreigners is an individual same as all Thai folks are individuals.

 

Some folks (from anywhere) can't cope / cope / easily cope with change and with different social behaviors, values, attitudes to multiculturalism, etc., etc. That's life and there's no reason to be judgmental about any of it. I worked for many years, in Bkk as a senior person in a western style international management consulting company, many times we invited western professional experts to help us with complex local projects. Over about 12 years I had 3 males and 1 western female quickly ask to go home, they simply could not cope with the cultural differences to the point where they were having emotional issues all day. I sent themhome quickly.

 

To the OP, why stay here? But would you easily integrate back into the main community / society you come from? Have you done any serious deep thinking to identify why your so unhappy here and perhaps try to understand why it took so long for all of this to become so problematic and upsetting? Further, (not my business) are there now serious relationship issues, is that actually the main problem? Are you perhaps unfairly angry with Thailand?

 

Analysing all of that carefully might help to understand yourself. 

 

Are you having depression, serious depression, anxiety, panic? 

 

Have you sought out any professional counselling to get clear answers for yourself? And I mean a properly board qualified counsellor. 

 

You alone need to make decisions about the points just above, but surely there's no value in continuing like you are. And Thailand, Thai social, daily behaviors and attitude aren't going to change and neither they should.

 

Make a move, don't sit and wait for the world / Thailand to change. You'll wait for 100 years or more and it still won't be utopia. A waste of your life.

 

 

 

"Love" is your problem.

 

Without that you would be gone like a shot.

 

No answers available here.

 

You're going to have to live it through.

 

 

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

Because of your young age and you having time to recover those losses, losing the business sunk costs would not be my biggest concern. My health and future happiness would be my only priorities. Good luck to you

This is it in a Nut Shell ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

I was at 38-39 years old, due to ill health, made to retire forcibly. Don't let that happen to you. Take control now. You have time to recover and money is easy to earn again when you are happy doing something. 

 

Health and happiness is number one and without them, life is pretty well worthless.

Edited February 1, 20197 yr by totally thaied up

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

That's a dilemma alright. Many of the frustrations you voiced are almost universally experienced by foreigners here. Older expats sometimes become reclusive, basically biding their time until it's all over, and father time puts them out of their misery.

 

But, you're still young, and if I were you I'd seriously consider repatriation, maybe with your girlfriend, maybe without her. I'd definitely cut back on the sauce: not good for your health, your disposition or your energy level.

 

Semi-rural/rural Thailand describes my environment as well, and most of the cultural frustrations you voiced are not going to be changing any time soon. If you can't adapt to that environment, and it's causing problems with your health, the only solution is to change the environment. Because of your young age and you having time to recover those losses, losing the business sunk costs would not be my biggest concern. My health and future happiness would be my only priorities. Good luck to you.

 

Agree completely.

 

And it's a shame (and telling) that the attention span of most TV members is too short to read the OP.  

 

Buy a bicycle. Spend so much that you feel obliged to ride it. You’ll enjoy getting out and about and maybe get a little fitter.

Or if you’re too young for that, try Muay Thai

3 hours ago, Lost Bob said:

In those 5 years my quality of life has deteriorated substantially to the point where simply getting out of bed to make coffee and facing existence is dreadfully painful to me. The reason for this degradation as far as I can see is my inability to adapt culturally to the Thai mentality.

Au contraire, you seem to be fitting in with the locals perfectly.