Thailand Vs Malaysia

[onzestan]

Pattaya is (to my impression) built almost totally around the sex trade.. sure theres some other things there now in case people get bored of gogo's and hookers but thats its basic service sector.. I am not knocking it, it is what it is, quite good fun for a few days of lose moralled fun (wears thin on me after that) but I stand by that opinion.

Now where in Japan has a whole city whose main reason detre is selling sex ?? Where in japan are gogos rammed with girls dancing wearing only boots, a number, and a smile ?? Street after street of them.

I am not saying Japan doesn't have prostitution, it most certainly does, but theres nowhere thats taken it to quite the level that Thailand / Pattaya has..

Japan doesn't that kind of city because almost all of their sex trade is only reserved for the Japanese themselves. That's why. And that doesn't prove it in anyway that the prostitution in Japan is not was widespread as it is in Thailand. Just because it's harder for foreign eyes to see, it doesn't mean that it's not prevalent. And that was the whole point that Shochu and I were making.

Also your comment about Thailand being the world leader can only be taken with a grain of salt, because I'm sure you yourself don't have any concrete stats to back it up. have you travelled around the world and collected the statistics? I bet not. It's just your own perception which shochu and I (who have seen what's going in japan) disagree.

Try Cuba and or Brasil !!!!!

Cheers

Onzestan

[LivinLOS]

Japan doesn't that kind of city because almost all of their sex trade is only reserved for the Japanese themselves. That's why. And that doesn't prove it in anyway that the prostitution in Japan is not was widespread as it is in Thailand. Just because it's harder for foreign eyes to see, it doesn't mean that it's not prevalent. And that was the whole point that Shochu and I were making.

But doesnt the complete brazen out there obviousness of it also say something..

Also your comment about Thailand being the world leader can only be taken with a grain of salt, because I'm sure you yourself don't have any concrete stats to back it up. have you travelled around the world and collected the statistics? I bet not. It's just your own perception which shochu and I (who have seen what's going in japan) disagree.

I have travelled around lots of the world.. I collected only subjective rather than objective data.. However as far as anywhere quite like Patts I havent found it !!

Sure Agelese is a bit the same but its nowhere like the size.. South America has its share of girls working and central america has bordellos.. But again.. Patts seems a completely different level..

If thats not the case where is more full on then ?? I might have to go and see it before I die..

[BAF]

And wasn't Thaigoon the one carefully picking parts of Bangkok while listing the whole of Pattaya as devoted to the "foreign prostitution scene" anyway?

Oh, I see. He was replying to me then.

I guess he is the type of "creatures" who don't need coherence and consistency...

Sorry. I meant to say parts of Pattaya and parts of Hat Yai. Sorry for not being perfectly clear on this in the first place. And I'm glad that you liked it when I said creatures..... I guess that's better than parasites, ehh?

I'm off to uni! We'll talk about parasites later!

[LivinLOS]

Pattaya is (to my impression) built almost totally around the sex trade.. sure theres some other things there now in case people get bored of gogo's and hookers but thats its basic service sector.. I am not knocking it, it is what it is, quite good fun for a few days of lose moralled fun (wears thin on me after that) but I stand by that opinion.

Now where in Japan has a whole city whose main reason detre is selling sex ?? Where in japan are gogos rammed with girls dancing wearing only boots, a number, and a smile ?? Street after street of them.

I am not saying Japan doesn't have prostitution, it most certainly does, but theres nowhere thats taken it to quite the level that Thailand / Pattaya has..

Japan doesn't that kind of city because almost all of their sex trade is only reserved for the Japanese themselves. That's why. And that doesn't prove it in anyway that the prostitution in Japan is not was widespread as it is in Thailand. Just because it's harder for foreign eyes to see, it doesn't mean that it's not prevalent. And that was the whole point that Shochu and I were making.

Also your comment about Thailand being the world leader can only be taken with a grain of salt, because I'm sure you yourself don't have any concrete stats to back it up. have you travelled around the world and collected the statistics? I bet not. It's just your own perception which shochu and I (who have seen what's going in japan) disagree.

Try Cuba and or Brasil !!!!!

Cheers

Onzestan

Cuba ?? Nothing like Thailand..

Also tried getting girls back into hotels ?? They can even get hassled for speaking to foreigners in public these days..

[ThaiGoon]

I have travelled around lots of the world.. I collected only subjective rather than objective data.. However as far as anywhere quite like Patts I havent found it !!

Sure Agelese is a bit the same but its nowhere like the size.. South America has its share of girls working and central america has bordellos.. But again.. Patts seems a completely different level..

If thats not the case where is more full on then ?? I might have to go and see it before I die..

Yeah subjective data.

[ThaiGoon]

I'm off to uni!

:D

[astral]

From what I understand, prostitution in Japan is rarely open to foreigners,

The same is try in Thailand, if you only knew where to look.................

The side you see is the tip of the iceberg.

[BAF]

I'm off to uni!

:D

Glad my getting a second degree makes you so cheerful

And BTW aren't you too at uni?

Aren't you "parasiting" in a farang country getting the education your great homecountry is unable to give you?

To get educated, an Italian goes back home.

To get educated, a Thai has to "parasite" in a farang country.

Laugh at that

[ThaiGoon]

"getting a second degree"

:D

[Tilokarat]

Malaysia has an interesting history, and is a nice place to visit, but I prefer Thailand. The northern Malay States of Perlis, Kedah, Kelantan and the other one were taken from old Siam by Britain and part of the price for the British halting the French take over of the whole country. The British also wanted to make sure that Germany was not going to build a canal across the country, which was perceived as a threat to British economic interests, and a threat to the defence of Malaya.

To gain independence the Malays and Chinese had to demonstrate to the British that they could get along. The ensuing negotiations led to the 'Bargain', in which the Chinese got citizenship (jus soli), but had to agree to stay out of politics. They would have freedom to make money. The Indian politicians had problems getting through political meetings without hurling chairs and tables at one another.

The Bargain worked fairly well except that Singapore, under the PAP, led by Harry Lee (Lee Kuan Yew), thought he could run the country more efficiently and effectively than the Malay-led government. This led to race riots, I think, in the early '60s, and Singapore's expulsion from Malaysia.

The Bumiputra policy is indeed racist and guarantees Malays come first in education and politics. Chinese companies with five employees, as has been noted, must have a Malay on the Board, to collect a salary and do virtually nothing. The discriminatory educational policy against Chinese in Malaysia has also been mentioned.

Thailand, and most other countries around the world, have nothing like the Bumiputra policy on its books. The Malay politicians did this to provide Malays with an opportunity to get some money and economic experience. It would be like a pure Thai government telling Sino-Thai politicians, and business people that the days of exploiting Thai peasants is over, and that political power rests with pure Thais now, and rural Thais will be coming to the city and getting into university and getting ahead whether you like it or not.

It is not a pleasant policy, but you can understand how it would hold appeal to Malays. As part of the bargain to get independence, the Chinese maintained their domination (strangehold) over the Malay economy despite the bumiputra (sons of the soil) policy.

Malaysia has great food, nice, fairly clean cities, and it seems modern. But it isn't Thailand! Chaiyo!!!

[shochu]

I think I should reply to try and qualify what i have said.

I think it is a matter of semantics regarding, large and largest, and concentration and just pure numbers.

Patty is probably the most visible largest concentration of this enterainment. It is especially pronounced because everyone knows who the players are. In Japan, one never knows who the players are - whether it is the attractive young women carry a LV bag, or the older women who looks like a house wife, or the the girl in a school unifrom. In terms of concentration in a visible form - then patty wins hands down. If it is in a non-vivible form - then tokyo wins. In terms of pure numbers - it is estimated that about 1 in 10 or more of the female population from the teens to the mid-thirties are directly or indirectly involved. Remember, tokyo is 30 million including the suburbs. what people forget is that tokyo stats never really consider the whole of tokyo. Now in a country of 120 million - do the math. These numbers are similar for korea. Have you ever been to their districts. It makes patty look like amateur hour. yet you would never know where they were unless you lived in the city and knew the city well.

In terms of scale, India and China win hands down. There are many web sites in japanese where one can book an appointment with their favourite player. Some of these players make more than many CEO's. It is not uncommon for some of these popular players to be driving around in a maserati, and living in a multi-million dollar central tokyo apt. Some of these gilrs are celebrities and visible in mainstream media - like Nao. It is a totally different playing field - so difficult to do direct comparisions.

Getting back to Thailand and the pros and cons about living there. Tilokarat's post was very informative. To add to this, I would like to say that thailand as a whole is really a free - or freer place to live than many countries. In Japan, or Korea and China and many other countries - if you have lived in any of these places - you would be happy with thailand. These three countires are more rigid and offer much more resistance to foreigners than thailand does. Remember, thailand is more than the main tourist places. Away from these places, it is actually an easy life compared to other places. I never get ripped off, or hassled and I am treated like any other person, thai or not. I have travelled extensively and still do, and thailand wins hands down when you add everything up. Sure there are some cons, but hey it's the whole package that makes it attrative. The new rules do not bother me in the least because I live my life according to the rules of wherever I am. They are now much clearer. Who cares if things close at 2AM. It's actually a good thing because it gets me home so I can have a good day the following day. Where I live, I can drink all night - but I never do because I am not into it anymore. And the best reason of course is cost. Sure it's creeping up, but compared to where I live now - a real blessing. It could go up much more and it would still be great.

Mods - appologize as I am not sure if the first part of this is allowable or not - just trying to provide some data to back up others things already mentioned earlier - which is part of the argument for thailand.

[asiaworld]

Hi all,

I am debating wether or not to settle in Malaysia under MMSH, or settle in Thailand.

I am curious to know if some of you have have lived in both places, or have debated the same thing, and what you believe would be the significant "pluses" and "negatives" of each place.

thanks.

OK, you asked so here goes .....

I've been in Thai-Lie-Land for over a year and have come to the conclusion that this is an extremely bigoted, racist culture. Every time I'm called " Farang," I cringe as I know this is used in exactly the same way as a very rude word used in the West for dark skinned people. A seething hatred of " Farang" is rampant , in fact I believe it is taught in school.

As a woman I don't have two-faced " Bar-Girls" sucking up to me or shall I say, lubricating my way, so I really feel the sting of discrimination in every outing from my house. Sitting at a traffic light - " Farang!" Walking into a store, someone will comment, " Farang!"

But it is never said to your face.

Racism against lower income foreigners is actually legislated.

Burmese construction worker are not allowed to drive cars, own cell phones or be out after 8 PM.

http://phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=5528

Can you believe that? Someone needs to get the UN involved on this issue.

To say that Thai people are stupid is to do a diservice to stupid people all over the world. Along with the unbelievable two-facedness of these people, they suffer fromwhat I call No Concept of Future, NCF.

It's apparent everywhere. See the man unloading his truck on the street, no thought at all to the cars passing at 45 mph inches away from him. See the woman with her 3 year old clutching his 2 other siblings on a motorcycle...

I'm quite attractive, can still turn heads at age 45 with a minimal preparation and would sure like to meet a man near my own age but forget it, there are so many prostitutes here. I haven't had a date in a year now except with a Thai man who took me to a three hour "Whiskey circle". What fun!!

However, I notice that the foreign men here flocking here are no prize and are only coming here for the main commodity Thailand has to offer, which cheap, easy sex, so I guess it is no loss for me.

Still it would be nice to at least SEE some foreign men that I think are attractive. ( Well, OK there is one..)There are attractive Thai men but they all seem to be either 20 or 60 and will expect you to clean up after their whiskey circles.

It took me a while to get it that lying is the way here in Thai- Lie- Land , it's your responsibility to make sure people stay honest-if they get over on you, good for them-no one cares.

It seems to be especially OK, even admirable- to screw " Farang" over ....

There was a new internet service offered through an " Air Card" Like a cell phone for your computer. Having read rave reviews I went to a Tech. Mall to purchase it. Nope.. You must have a work permit even though I have a perfectly legitimate visa.

This was purely to discriminate against foreigners...

Inconsiderate doesn't begin to describe their so called "Manners."

It is 8 AM and I've been listening to the same Karaoke song since 6:30, emanating from a house 200 meters away at a volume so loud I cannot have a phone conversation within my own house. This goes on pretty much every day. When the rest of the neighborhood stirs I'll be listening to 3-4, maybe 5 different stereos.

I'm residing in Thai-Lie-land under an Investor visa which requires 3 million baht in a fixed bank account.

I went to the bank the Friday before just before Christmas to withdraw 6 million baht from a different account as after the 30% withholding fiasco, I'd decided that, at 2 weeks of age, Thai-Lie-Land's government was too immature and reactionary to trust with my money.

It took me 3 hours. I was there 2 hours after closing and only finally got an international draft because I refused to leave.

I had the proper forms alright but the portion asking about import, export funds I had marked N/A as I am not going to run any kind of business. The bank manager should have corrected it when I first deposited the funds. A young woman at the main Siam Commercial Bank in Phuket Town asked me very personal questions about my money such as did I have receipts for purchases and unbelievably, just where did

I, " Get the funds initially?" " Your amount of money, it's too much for a tourist .." she stated while on the phone with BOT( Bank of Thailand)

"Well, if you'd look at my passport, (although it really isn't any of your business, ) "you'll see I have a " B" business visa.

Well where's your work permit, then?" As if she's an immigration official.

But , In Thai-Lie-Land I guess she is.

However I don't have such a permit. I'm not allowed to work as far as I know.

But I really don't know anything as I wasn't told anything.

Am I supposed to register my address? Immigration, in their ridiculous militararistic uniforms, tell you nothing.

I fully expect my application for the yearly renewal to be withheld next September unless I repeat my performance with an expensive lawyer as I did with the "extension."

The initial investor's visa , 1200 Baht , was initially granted for 90 days. It took another 20,000 to get it extended for 9 months, a full year.

A woman at Phuket immigration actually recommended I get married to a Thai man. Oh yeah, and get murdered for my savings? No thanks.

All the businesses , lawyers, restaurants, etc. run by foreigners have as employees, grossly incompetent Thai women that are the owner's girlfriends. I had a high dollar lawyer's office-manager give me totally erroneous information which caused a house sale to collapse. The most expensive, nicest restaurants you have to chase down the server to get another drink... Oh, on and on and on...

You can forget about using the title Ms.

I got a driver's license and Mrs. was put on it and now I have to explain constantly I've never been married and cannot produce a marriage certificate or divorce papers.

Infuriating.

Thai's are all about appearance. They may live in a tin shack but will have the latest model car and it will be shiny clean. Their clothing too is always neat in appearance and clean yet they'll eat 2 inches off the sidewalk and think nothing of sticking viral infected fingers way up into their nostrils. They routinely throw garbage from their cars and will burn plastic refuse in front of your home if the wind is blowing away from theirs. Having absolutely no regard for the environment, there are no laws requiring them to do otherwise.

Ugh, and then there's how horses are treated in Thailand . I took many many pics of the pony rental/torture stable where I rescued my horses from. Pictures that would make you sick and cry, but am afraid to send them to the paper as I may find myself on the business end of a shotgun. After I leave though...

So , unless you are a sexually unattractive man who can't find women ( or men, or children, or hamsters...) in your own country, I'd say, STAY AWAY from Thailand, it has very little to offer socially.

The people are beyond horrible.

On the plus side , it is beautiful and the food, fruits and vegetables are of excellent quality and cheap.

Thats amazing how these people are inclined to shut down any sensible comments,(being here for too long does it )

Great post phuketti , nice to see, there's more than one foreigner living here for reasons other than p*ssy . . Well since i am man, i guess i'm still unique .. Btw. you're also one of the very few people here on the 3mil residency same me, hey u better don't burn bridges ditching it , coz @ this time it's the only option for us to ever stay in this country, which is still a nice place to live, if it only had less bigotry

[siam-i-am]

Hi all,

I am debating wether or not to settle in Malaysia under MMSH, or settle in Thailand.

I am curious to know if some of you have have lived in both places, or have debated the same thing, and what you believe would be the significant "pluses" and "negatives" of each place.

thanks.

OK, you asked so here goes .....

I've been in Thai-Lie-Land for over a year and have come to the conclusion that this is an extremely bigoted, racist culture. Every time I'm called " Farang," I cringe as I know this is used in exactly the same way as a very rude word used in the West for dark skinned people. A seething hatred of " Farang" is rampant , in fact I believe it is taught in school.

As a woman I don't have two-faced " Bar-Girls" sucking up to me or shall I say, lubricating my way, so I really feel the sting of discrimination in every outing from my house. Sitting at a traffic light - " Farang!" Walking into a store, someone will comment, " Farang!"

But it is never said to your face.

Racism against lower income foreigners is actually legislated.

Burmese construction worker are not allowed to drive cars, own cell phones or be out after 8 PM.

http://phuketgazette.net/news/index.asp?id=5528

Can you believe that? Someone needs to get the UN involved on this issue.

To say that Thai people are stupid is to do a diservice to stupid people all over the world. Along with the unbelievable two-facedness of these people, they suffer fromwhat I call No Concept of Future, NCF.

It's apparent everywhere. See the man unloading his truck on the street, no thought at all to the cars passing at 45 mph inches away from him. See the woman with her 3 year old clutching his 2 other siblings on a motorcycle...

I'm quite attractive, can still turn heads at age 45 with a minimal preparation and would sure like to meet a man near my own age but forget it, there are so many prostitutes here. I haven't had a date in a year now except with a Thai man who took me to a three hour "Whiskey circle". What fun!!

However, I notice that the foreign men here flocking here are no prize and are only coming here for the main commodity Thailand has to offer, which cheap, easy sex, so I guess it is no loss for me.

Still it would be nice to at least SEE some foreign men that I think are attractive. ( Well, OK there is one..)There are attractive Thai men but they all seem to be either 20 or 60 and will expect you to clean up after their whiskey circles.

It took me a while to get it that lying is the way here in Thai- Lie- Land , it's your responsibility to make sure people stay honest-if they get over on you, good for them-no one cares.

It seems to be especially OK, even admirable- to screw " Farang" over ....

There was a new internet service offered through an " Air Card" Like a cell phone for your computer. Having read rave reviews I went to a Tech. Mall to purchase it. Nope.. You must have a work permit even though I have a perfectly legitimate visa.

This was purely to discriminate against foreigners...

Inconsiderate doesn't begin to describe their so called "Manners."

It is 8 AM and I've been listening to the same Karaoke song since 6:30, emanating from a house 200 meters away at a volume so loud I cannot have a phone conversation within my own house. This goes on pretty much every day. When the rest of the neighborhood stirs I'll be listening to 3-4, maybe 5 different stereos.

I'm residing in Thai-Lie-land under an Investor visa which requires 3 million baht in a fixed bank account.

I went to the bank the Friday before just before Christmas to withdraw 6 million baht from a different account as after the 30% withholding fiasco, I'd decided that, at 2 weeks of age, Thai-Lie-Land's government was too immature and reactionary to trust with my money.

It took me 3 hours. I was there 2 hours after closing and only finally got an international draft because I refused to leave.

I had the proper forms alright but the portion asking about import, export funds I had marked N/A as I am not going to run any kind of business. The bank manager should have corrected it when I first deposited the funds. A young woman at the main Siam Commercial Bank in Phuket Town asked me very personal questions about my money such as did I have receipts for purchases and unbelievably, just where did

I, " Get the funds initially?" " Your amount of money, it's too much for a tourist .." she stated while on the phone with BOT( Bank of Thailand)

"Well, if you'd look at my passport, (although it really isn't any of your business, ) "you'll see I have a " B" business visa.

Well where's your work permit, then?" As if she's an immigration official.

But , In Thai-Lie-Land I guess she is.

However I don't have such a permit. I'm not allowed to work as far as I know.

But I really don't know anything as I wasn't told anything.

Am I supposed to register my address? Immigration, in their ridiculous militararistic uniforms, tell you nothing.

I fully expect my application for the yearly renewal to be withheld next September unless I repeat my performance with an expensive lawyer as I did with the "extension."

The initial investor's visa , 1200 Baht , was initially granted for 90 days. It took another 20,000 to get it extended for 9 months, a full year.

A woman at Phuket immigration actually recommended I get married to a Thai man. Oh yeah, and get murdered for my savings? No thanks.

All the businesses , lawyers, restaurants, etc. run by foreigners have as employees, grossly incompetent Thai women that are the owner's girlfriends. I had a high dollar lawyer's office-manager give me totally erroneous information which caused a house sale to collapse. The most expensive, nicest restaurants you have to chase down the server to get another drink... Oh, on and on and on...

You can forget about using the title Ms.

I got a driver's license and Mrs. was put on it and now I have to explain constantly I've never been married and cannot produce a marriage certificate or divorce papers.

Infuriating.

Thai's are all about appearance. They may live in a tin shack but will have the latest model car and it will be shiny clean. Their clothing too is always neat in appearance and clean yet they'll eat 2 inches off the sidewalk and think nothing of sticking viral infected fingers way up into their nostrils. They routinely throw garbage from their cars and will burn plastic refuse in front of your home if the wind is blowing away from theirs. Having absolutely no regard for the environment, there are no laws requiring them to do otherwise.

Ugh, and then there's how horses are treated in Thailand . I took many many pics of the pony rental/torture stable where I rescued my horses from. Pictures that would make you sick and cry, but am afraid to send them to the paper as I may find myself on the business end of a shotgun. After I leave though...

So , unless you are a sexually unattractive man who can't find women ( or men, or children, or hamsters...) in your own country, I'd say, STAY AWAY from Thailand, it has very little to offer socially.

The people are beyond horrible.

On the plus side , it is beautiful and the food, fruits and vegetables are of excellent quality and cheap.

Thats amazing how these people are inclined to shut down any sensible comments,(being here for too long does it )

Great post phuketti , nice to see, there's more than one foreigner living here for reasons other than p*ssy . . Well since i am man, i guess i'm still unique .. Btw. you're also one of the very few people here on the 3mil residency same me, hey u better don't burn bridges ditching it , coz @ this time it's the only option for us to ever stay in this country, which is still a nice place to live, if it only had less bigotry

Phucketti is right, but when you've lived here a while you get to ignore what you don't like, I know where to go to eat and get what I order, take my car for service and not get ripped off. I have all things I need in my own name it's a hassle but can be done. I have a number of Thai friends and they will freely admit for the most part Thais are racist but if the truth be known so is the rest of the world. Being a brit I dislike most of the brits that hang around the girls for hire bars so I guess I'm a racist throw in bigot if you must but I'm honest. I like living in my ivory tower and seldom take off the rose tinted specs. The Phuketti's of the world remind of this every so often. But I'm staying because it's better than living in UK, and maybe Malaysia.

[simon43]

Laopo quoted:

As the state of Terengganu follows Islamic customs, the consumption of alcohol and wearing of immodest clothing are discouraged. In order not to offend local inhabitants, tourists are advised to consume alcohol discreetly and to wear one-piece bathing costumes. No penalties are imposed on tourists for 'breaches' of the local customs, however."

[\quote]

We are not all p*ss-heads who want to drink beer in public and swim half-naked

I'm quite happy having a modest drink 'discreetly' and my Thai missues would never dare to wear a bikini!

I think for those of us who are happily married and not out on the p*ss or butterflying, then Malaysia could be an interesting option.

The fact that discrimination is set in Malaysian law is also attractive. I'll know what the rules are and not be prone to the interpretation of rules by individuals in Thailand which can be so frustrating!

I could certainly see myself purchasing in Penang under the MMSH scheme when I reach 50 (in 15 or so months). The fact that I can get a 10 year visa and not even have to live there is attractive. I could use Penang as a emergency bolthole, but stay in Phuket and try for PR if all is ok (and Phuket is only a short direct flight from Penang...)

Simon