What would you do to prevent illegal extension applications???

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

AFAIK most other countries in the world have visa agents as a legitimate part of the workforce.

Most may.  But the Philippines had similar corruption problems, so outlawed them entirely, and immigration there is a breeze as a result.  Everything is "by the book," with no "extra requirements" added, for the purpose of encouraging agent-use.

[JLCrab]

 

31 minutes ago, crazygreg44 said:

there is no illegality in the "tango". Immigration law allows the leniency. Refer and re-read my post no. 144 and a few which follow

And again you prefer not to note on the IMM Act page 38 that the fee for a Section 35 extension of stay is 2000 baht and that anything above that agent charges minus reasonable expenses is a bribe for the tango.

Edited February 4, 2019 by JLCrab

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Most may.  But the Philippines had similar corruption problems, so outlawed them entirely, and immigration there is a breeze as a result.  Everything is "by the book," with no "extra requirements" added, for the purpose of encouraging agent-use.

True enough. However, can you see Thai Immigration making visas here a "breeze"?

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, norfolkc said:

Why are there so many experts on Thai immigration on here do they have nothing better to do  between raising fish and chickens than giving there so called expert opinion on telling the Thai officials how to run there operation get a life it is like Coronation street on here with people spending all day running each other down is that all you have to do all day with your life what a sad bunch 

Many of us are old yet still want to feel useful. 

What's your excuse?

[Searat7]

On 2/2/2019 at 4:24 PM, madmen said:

Arrest the agents and their IO hommy.

They are easy to spot, you know.. The guy that Waltzes up to the officer and drops 20 passports on the desk followed by rapport building chatter like.. Congratulations on your new Mercedes, you hard worker and deserve it.

After they have jumped the queue to get to the IO’s desk.  Agents should have to be served at special desks which could hopefully be staffed by honest IO’s.  Unlikely but this would be a solution. 

[problemfarang]

On 2/2/2019 at 3:39 PM, Rc2702 said:

Have you not noticed the shake up locally? We have a new immigration chief in khon Kaen.

 

 

 

i remember the days KK has no immigration.. had to go to Nong Khai and come back...

ahh KK 13 years ????

[natway09]

I just love all the blame being shifted onto Immigration now.

I know 16 guys that have had retirement visas for at least 10 years & never been asked for a bribe.

Just follow the rules & everything will be fine.

 

[Thingamabob]

800k on permanent deposit. No exceptions. If you refuse, or cannot, go somewhere else.

 

[wreckingcountry]

The OP is wrong ! It’s not illegal ! Total spurious opinion


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Greenside]

In all branches of officialdom "...at the discretion of the Officer" is simply shorthand for a corruption opportunity.  A clear set of rules with mandatory compliance coupled with an accessible and fair appeals system would solve many, many issues.  However, I have long suspected that the discretionary powers granted to often quite low grade officials is there to make their jobs seem more important which in turn makes up for the poor remuneration and conditions many labour under.  Huge changes are required to put this right and it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

[offset]

32 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

800k on permanent deposit. No exceptions. If you refuse, or cannot, go somewhere else.

 

That is not a problem to a lot of people but you should be able to use it as a emergency fund which would be simple to do by cutting the 12 month rule to 11 months so in a emergency you could use the money as long as you put it back within the month

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, wreckingcountry said:

The OP is wrong ! It’s not illegal ! Total spurious opinion

 

What is the name of your wife's Visa Agency ?  

[crazygreg44]

3 hours ago, JLCrab said:

 

And again you prefer not to note on the IMM Act page 38 that the fee for a Section 35 extension of stay is 2000 baht and that anything above that agent charges minus reasonable expenses is a bribe for the tango.

the fee for the extension is and has always been 1900 THB, not 2000.

 

The agent takes a fee for his service. If you do not have the required 800,000 THB in your bank account, it is up to you to decide how much you are willing to pay a middle man for reaching an agreement with an Immigration officer. The agreement is: the IO does - according to their rules - ignore that you don't fulfill the financial requirement. The IO is by law empowered to do so. The amount of the "service fee" both the IO and the middleman "need" in order to reach an agreement, is set by pure mechanisms of the market - availability & demand. You are free to call this a "bribe"......by myself and all the immigration officers  it is called a "service fee". For the Thai there is no logic encumbered in the word "bribe"

 

Edited February 4, 2019 by crazygreg44

[The Fugitive]

On 2/2/2019 at 5:17 PM, farangx said:

Seemed like the often quoted fee for an agent is 15,000 baht. I say now give him 20,000 baht, he earned it.

 

Some do so I am told. There are ex-pats who cannot read or write plus others who can neither speak Thai nor English.

[The Fugitive]

9 hours ago, dodojero said:

I would do exactly the same as my bank did with me to issue a credit card for myself. Just put a certain amount (e.g. 500K) on a bank account in the applicant's name and let the bank block it there. The money could be used to prove liquidity and as security for any illness/death if there is no insurance. This procedure saves the Immigration a lot of time of controlling work.

How much the applicant spends on his/her daily life should be a personal matter. 

 

Agree. Alternatively, compulsory subscription to Government Hospital scheme at realistic rates (more than the Thai's pay but a lot less than Bangkok Hospital for example).

[The Fugitive]

7 hours ago, stanleycoin said:

I agree, but

Exiting every year,  falls into Bullshit category for me. 

Perhaps annual reporting to local Immigration Office.

[sumrit]

These comments on here are generally what I expected when I started this Thread. There are some good posts by people who genuinely recognize there is a problem that has massively increased over recent years. There are also others that, in my opinion, bury their head in the sand and ignore the problem or pretend it doesn’t exist. While a third group think there isn’t a problem anyway.

What has surprised me is that virtually everybody blames the IO’s for the present state while (almost) nobody blames the expat or agent. But in reality, it’s the expat looking for a way to get around the legal process to obtain an extension that actually STARTS the illegal process. The agent gets involved KNOWING that what he is offering and arranging is illegal, while the IO is only at the end of a chain that wouldn’t exist if the first two were not intent on pursuing an illegal act.

 

Expats, agents and IO’s are all responsible for the existing bribery and corruption.

 

IF Big Joke is really serious about eradicating bribery and corruption (and I hope he is) I’ll suggest what phase two of the overhaul could look like:

 

·        ALL agents banned.

·        Zero tolerance, everybody either offering or accepting a bribe to get an extension to be prosecuted.

·        ALL extensions must be applied for in person, and that rule strictly enforced, no exceptions.

·        A standardized procedure, process and interpretation for extension applications that ALL Immigration Offices, from all over the country, must abide by so we all go through exactly the same process.

·        Instead of an agent, if, on the odd occasion, an expat needs genuine help with the extension process (for language problems, ill health, etc, etc,) a trained IO could be officially appointed to provide that help.

·        An independent body set up to review all agent-based extensions issued in the last year. Any expat found to have ‘cheated’ the system will be to be offered one opportunity to re-apply legally to stay in Thailand. Agents and IO’s involved in bribes, corruption, etc, to be prosecuted.

·        An appeals procedure set up to independently fast track and review any extension application complaints, refusals etc, to counter the complaints that some IO’s/Offices use their own rules to deny applications unless a ‘brown envelope' is offered. Expats are given temporary stay while the complaint is being reviewed.

 

Lastly, on a slightly different note, I have seen several comments recently about health insurance. While I agree with the necessity, for most of us ‘over65’s’ private policies are prohibitive and simply out of our reach. But one comment I’ve seen recently could work. At the same time as obtaining an extension, compulsory subscription to Government Hospital health scheme, at realistic rates (more than the Thai's pay but a lot less than Bangkok Hospital for example), could be part of the process, even paid for monthly like an insurance policy if necessary. While I’m not suggesting it’s at private hospital levels it would provide adequate care for all expats that can't afford private health care at zero cost to Thailand.

[elliss]

On 2/2/2019 at 4:31 PM, Dmitry2222 said:

There are IMM police division and criminal police. Also i guess there is own security department.

   Untouchable , and unaccountable ,  typical of  civil servants . 

[elliss]

6 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Many of us are old yet still want to feel useful. 

What's your excuse?

       Boredom , without  TVF,  life  has  no purpose .  Nuff said .555

[zaZa9]

Hello.

Every time Ive done a Retirement Extension , the Immigration Officer has wanted photocopies of my Entire years bankbook pages , plus a look at the bankbook those photocopies have come from , PLUS  a letter from the bank saying I have the funds , PLUS a bank statement of at least 6 months showing I have the funds !

EVERY TIME !

 

Is Thai Immigration  trying to tell me their Officers  dont do that for ALL applicants ??

 

You mean some of your Officers Do Not check the SAME bank information for EVERYBODY ?

 

Im learning from here that what happens to me ,  doesnt happen for every case , even when Thai Law says it will ?

 

I have an idea.

The idea is to make every Thai Immigration Officer check the same information as I am  required to submit  ,  and every time for EVERY applicant.

Then , the big bosses job is to look through a few applications  picked randomly each day , and ask the question  to the officer who processed the papers , why some of the applications DO NOT have those papers submitted !

 

Thats the idea of all the papers you know , the papers leave a trail of evidence .

If somebody is submitting paperwork that does NOT SHOW  800,000 baht in their  bank for weeks on end ,  months actually , then its time to question the honesty of your staff. Time to conclude your staff  are not following the rules.

 

Increasing the amount of months required to have an applicants money in the bank ,  while  your heads  of Immigration Offices  ,   DO NOT check the papers accepted by his officers , whether it be  ,  3 months , 5 months , or ALL YEAR ... will NOT fix anything if no boss  is checking anything !

 

 

[hgma]

Part of the process, i guess and by no means a snitch job for us to conduct.

And remember , maybe one day you or i might use these people to stay. (i hope not)

So its all in the game.

[lamyai3]

4 hours ago, sumrit said:

These comments on here are generally what I expected when I started this Thread. There are some good posts by people who genuinely recognize there is a problem that has massively increased over recent years. There are also others that, in my opinion, bury their head in the sand and ignore the problem or pretend it doesn’t exist. While a third group think there isn’t a problem anyway.

You do realise that you've defined "good posts" as those who are in agreement with your argument? And for those who disagree, you yourself would fall into the second category of posters you describe? 

 

4 hours ago, sumrit said:

Lastly, on a slightly different note, I have seen several comments recently about health insurance. While I agree with the necessity, for most of us ‘over65’s’ private policies are prohibitive and simply out of our reach.

Let's hope they don't introduce rules on this that make it impossible for you to stay. I wonder if you'll still be trumpeting immigration's reform efforts at that time. 

[Airalee]

31 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Let's hope they don't introduce rules on this that make it impossible for you to stay. I wonder if you'll still be trumpeting immigration's reform efforts at that time. 

Exactly.  So many many sanctimonious people as of late stating in essence, “throw the book at people who cannot comply with the regulations, but don’t make it any harder lest it affects me”.

[Airalee]

8 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

compulsory subscription to Government Hospital scheme at realistic rates (more than the Thai's pay but a lot less than Bangkok Hospital for example).

Later...Sumrit states...

 

“compulsory subscription to Government Hospital health scheme, at realistic rates (more than the Thai's pay but a lot less than Bangkok Hospital for example)”

 

Hmmm ????

[KiChakayan]

20 hours ago, moe666 said:

I guess I live a sheltered life 9 years living in Thailand extensions at BKK and Chiang Mai never been asked for tea money but of course all of my paper work is accurate and I do have the required money. Maybe the real problem is with the people applying for extensions.

Never asked for tea money is my experience I cannot vouch for others.

You nail it. Most people seem to forget that, here in Thailand, Tea Money is asked for when you somehow contravene with the rules. You can choose to buy yourself out of traffic offences, settle at the police station, or worse. The same applies here, if your extension of stay paperwork isn't right, or you don't meet some criteria you will be given the choice of paying a "fee" or leave the country. As far as I am concerned the extra money I have given is the change on the 100 Bahts fee, for extra photocopies. 

 

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

if your extension of stay paperwork isn't right, or you don't meet some criteria you will be given the choice of paying a "fee" or leave the country.

Sadly, also occurs if you application is right too!

[brokenbone]

14 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

if your extension of stay paperwork isn't right, or you don't meet some criteria

what about those criteria made on the fly by corrupt IO ?

even IF you comply with those, they can and will make up more

 

[Naam]

9 hours ago, sumrit said:

These comments on here are generally what I expected when I started this Thread. There are some good posts by people who genuinely recognize there is a problem that has massively increased over recent years. There are also others that, in my opinion, bury their head in the sand and ignore the problem or pretend it doesn’t exist. While a third group think there isn’t a problem anyway.

there's another group (to which i belong) who find it quite boring to waste time answering hypothetical questions like yours.

[KiChakayan]

22 minutes ago, Naam said:

there's another group (to which i belong) who find it quite boring to waste time answering hypothetical questions like yours.

I am only newbie with 4 extensions for marriage, the last 2 processed in 30/45 minutes flat, my wife's got a brain, and I walk in with  a 15 sections binder... There are quite a few brothers here who mention their 15/20 extensions without a problem; I tend to believe them and I can't remember any TV first hand account of legit people rejected for marriage or retirement extensions. Actually if there were so many issues I am sure there would be threads or sections on this forum to discuss actual situations.

[sumrit]

5 hours ago, Airalee said:

13 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

compulsory subscription to Government Hospital scheme at realistic rates (more than the Thai's pay but a lot less than Bangkok Hospital for example).

Later...Sumrit states...

 

“compulsory subscription to Government Hospital health scheme, at realistic rates (more than the Thai's pay but a lot less than Bangkok Hospital for example)”

 

Hmmm ????

 

11 hours ago, sumrit said:

But one comment I’ve seen recently could work.

Please note in my post I said it was a comment I'd SEEN recently, I never attempted to suggest it was my idea. Pity you chose not to copy my full quote!!!!

 

Hmmm ????