Do you ride different with ABS?

[moose7117]

On 2/5/2019 at 8:38 AM, OneMoreFarang said:

Sounds interesting. Maybe you can describe your experience of doing that. What do you learn from it?

many many moons ago, when the earth was young i wanted to test my limits, i enrolled in a few motorcycle training courses in Qld. australia. i was an avis track day rider and i was interested in improving my bike control.

i completed a two day course that heavily focused on braking for street and race track conditions, what i learnt was that you can brake with only the front brake a lot harder than what most riders believe is possible. we were taught to apply the front brake to the point of the front tyre squealing as it was bordering on loosing traction.

we all know what happens if the front tyre looses traction, you fall down, then we learnt the different effects of applying the rear brake. and the difference between applying the rear brake before, after and simultaneously with the front brake.

this was pre-ABS days. 

now my main ride, Kawasaki H2 SX  has cornering ABS and i have yet to feel it activate.

however i know it is there and i know it will help me during a panic stop situation, i do not rely on it to save me however anything that will make me safer i like.

 

now i just have to teach my brain to slow down and ride at an approved speed instead off going at 250 Kph everywhere.

 

but i has asked for a closed casket if i stuff it up.

[Bullie]

On 2/3/2019 at 1:54 PM, Crossy said:

An off-topic post has been removed.

 

I think 99% of us reading this know that ABS = Antilock Braking System or something similar.

So you're just explaining for the benefit of the 1 % then, I assume?

[canthai55]

One thing to remember - If your bike has ABS be sure and cycle it regularily. This will displace the old brake fluid with fresh. Keeps the solenoid valve and ports nice and clean

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

One thing to remember - If your bike has ABS be sure and cycle it regularily. This will displace the old brake fluid with fresh. Keeps the solenoid valve and ports nice and clean

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Can you elaborate please!

What does it mean to "cycle it regularly"? Brake regularly? Brake hard so that the ABS is engaged regularly? Replace the brake fluid regularly?

 

[tlandtday]

On 2/3/2019 at 5:38 PM, Agusts said:

I have zero experience with ABS on a bike myself, but of course used on cars and I have done a lot of reading on this for bikes,  generally the consensus is:

 

1- If you are riding straight on any condition,  wet,  sand etc.,  just slam the breaks and generally you will be fine on ABS, hopefully no skid or loss of control. 

 

2- If going down a steep slope,  ABS might cause your bike not to stop completely at all, and keep going,  remember that...! It could be a situation where it's better to put the bike down and survive than going under a truck or off a cliff...!

 

3- Now on the corners, unless you have special Cornering ABS, which only a few expensive bikes have, ABS may not be saving you, if you have any lean after ABS activated it could up-right you and take you to the ditch or just put you down anyway. The very momentary wheel luck could be enough to the take the handle out of your control and you will be reacting to it and going down in a corner , specially if wet or slippery....

I wish a few people would try this and put it on YouTube,  it would be great to see it in action rather than everyone speculating about it... 

 

4- Also in dirt road ABS could actually be bad,  because you want to skid to control and stop the bike,  this is where they say a switchable ABS is very useful... 

 

 All from my reading.

Not sure why you would want to skid on a dirt road? 

[kannot]

Nope  because  I always  think it wont work when I need  it so  subconsciously I think its not there anyway.

[tlandtday]

On 2/4/2019 at 5:31 PM, richard_smith237 said:

I can't remember the last car I had which didn't have ABS...  it was probably while back at Uni.

 

It doesn't change the way I drive... ABS has come on when breaking hard in the wet - I'm glad I have it. 

 

I have ABS on my bikes (TriCity & G310GS) - I've never ridden a bike without ABS and never will, I would never have started riding a bike without ABS - Its probably because I'm not an experience rider, I'm probably quite rubbish !!... 

The ABS has engaged on both bikes... In traffic, wet road, checking a blind spot before changing lanes only to turn back and the car in front has stopped...  in grabbing a handful of brake the ABS came on - I'm very glad it did as on one of those occasions I'm sure I'd have dropped the bike (G310GS) - the TriCity has 2x front wheels and greater front wheel stability (which is the reason as a newbie I chose that bike). 

 

 

It seems that a lot of people dislike ABS, it seems there is some 'ego' involved with not needing it or it identifies a poor rider... However, in traffic as unpredictable as Bangkoks I'm glad I have it as anything can happen at any time and when I have to slam on the anchors for an idiot (or my own mistake) stability and traction is maintained... 

 

Sorry to "brake" the news to you Richard but you are currently riding a bike without ABS called the Tricity.  The tricity uses ubs which is yamaha's version of honda's combined braking system used on the pcx etc.  IT IS NOT ABS!  I think this has been used to convince many buyers they are getting some type of abs which they are not.  ABS is largely beneficial and ubs is questionable at best.  However, the tricity should brake well and be quite stable with dual wheels and all the rubber on the road even without abs.

[tlandtday]

1 minute ago, tlandtday said:

double post

 

[canthai55]

20 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Can you elaborate please!

What does it mean to "cycle it regularly"? Brake regularly? Brake hard so that the ABS is engaged regularly? Replace the brake fluid regularly?

Use the brakes hard enuf that the ABS kicks in. You will feel the pulsing.

This replaces the fluid that just sits in the solenoid with fresh fluid.

Unless you are doing preventive maintenance on your brakes - and even then - complete fluid flush and fill every 2 years - the brake fluid will contain water. Because it is hygroscopic it will pull water vapour right out of the air, easy in the wet season.

Some never brake hard enuf, the fluid containing water just sits there, and can corrode the valve assembly.

I do mine every time I ride / drive them.

[Agusts]

8 hours ago, tlandtday said:

Not sure why you would want to skid on a dirt road? 

No idea, but watch a few YouTube videos of guys on dirt roads and dirt tracks, they lock the back wheel and skid in the corners...! 

[richard_smith237]

8 hours ago, tlandtday said:

Sorry to "brake" the news to you Richard but you are currently riding a bike without ABS called the Tricity.  The tricity uses ubs which is yamaha's version of honda's combined braking system used on the pcx etc.  IT IS NOT ABS!  I think this has been used to convince many buyers they are getting some type of abs which they are not.  ABS is largely beneficial and ubs is questionable at best.  However, the tricity should brake well and be quite stable with dual wheels and all the rubber on the road even without abs.

Sorry to “brake” it back at you...  The Yamaha TriCity 155cc ABS model has both UBS and ABS.

 

UBS - Universal Braking System applies the brakes to both front and rear brakes at the same time when depressing left brake lever (or right I can’t remember now), and just the front when depressing the right brake lever.  And you are right, it is different from ABS, which the Yamaha TriCity 155cc ABS model also has....  

 

To quote the Yamaha Bumf.... [Linking these systems together is the UBS or Universal Braking System, with ABS as standard fitment]

 

 

My BMW also has ABS.... 

 

I wouldn’t want to ride on Wet or slippery roads without it... 

[richard_smith237]

17 minutes ago, Agusts said:

8 hours ago, tlandtday said:

Not sure why you would want to skid on a dirt road? 

No idea, but watch a few YouTube videos of guys on dirt roads and dirt tracks, they lock the back wheel and skid in the corners...! 

The idea on dirt, especially going down hill is that with ABS the bike would not stop.

The ABS would refuse to let the brakes lock (expecially the rear), the wheels would just keep turning.. ABS off-road is not helpful for rear braking... The buildup of dirt under the wheel as the rear skids is more effective in slowing, stopping and cornering.

[richard_smith237]

8 hours ago, kannot said:

Nope  because  I always  think it wont work when I need  it so  subconsciously I think its not there anyway.

I had my bike washed today.. and just to ensure they didn’t do anything silly (such as get oil on the disks etc) while ridining home on the quiet sub-soi I did a couple of hard brake tests (also to get the feel again as I’ve been away and not ridden for 6 weeks)... 

 

Upping the ante each time until I felt the ABS kick in I now how hard I can brake. 

 

There is confidence in knowing I can still brake so hard in the wet in an emergency situation and not skid the front end... It may be my inexperience, but I can’t see how ABS on the road in wet conditions in an emergency can be bettered without ABS, even with an exeperienced pro on the bars... 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

The idea on dirt, especially going down hill is that with ABS the bike would not stop.

The ABS would refuse to let the brakes lock (expecially the rear), the wheels would just keep turning.. ABS off-road is not helpful for rear braking... The buildup of dirt under the wheel as the rear skids is more effective in slowing, stopping and cornering.

My KTM Duke 390 has the following ABS modes:

- Road: ABS front and rear

- Super Moto: ABS only front, the rear can lock

- Off

I guess it's the same principle on dirt.

[tlandtday]

8 hours ago, tlandtday said:

Sorry to "brake" the news to you Richard but you are currently riding a bike without ABS called the Tricity.  The tricity uses ubs which is yamaha's version of honda's combined braking system used on the pcx etc.  IT IS NOT ABS!  I think this has been used to convince many buyers they are getting some type of abs which they are not.  ABS is largely beneficial and ubs is questionable at best.  However, the tricity should brake well and be quite stable with dual wheels and all the rubber on the road even without abs.

What year is your Tricity?  My understanding is ABS was only made standard in 2018 and was optional prior.  You might want to have that checked if not 2018:)

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, tlandtday said:

What year is your Tricity?  My understanding is ABS was only made standard in 2018 and was optional prior.  You might want to have that checked if not 2018:)

 

I think the 2018 155cc model could come with ABS or without, I think it was a about 10,000 baht more for the ABS model... I am without doubt that it was the ABS model (I have felt the ABS kick in a couple of times under heavy braking).

I bought it in Jan 2018 and sold it a few weeks ago because my current bike is also suitable ‘enough’ in the city not to warrant a second bike... 

 

If I were to upgrade from the G310GS to the F850GS then I may consider also getting another TriCity for around town to the shops etc... but before I do I need to make more ‘motorcycling friends’ for weekend out of city trips, which at the moment the G310GS can do if not wanting to go too far at highway speeds.. (it’s ok at 110 Kmh, but I wouldn’t want to go too far on it, thus, if I see myself going for 300km rides etc I’d have to upgrade to the 850 machine)...

 

In the upgrade to the 850cc scenario my primary choice as a second bike for the City would be another TriCity 155cc ABS model.

 

 

[richard_smith237]

32 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

My KTM Duke 390 has the following ABS modes:

- Road: ABS front and rear

- Super Moto: ABS only front, the rear can lock

- Off

I guess it's the same principle on dirt.

I think your KTM has an excellent set up with its ABS settings. 

 

I’m yet to understand how no ABS on the front could help me on mucky stuff, but understand how seasoned off-road motorcyclists would like the option to turn it off. 

 

The rear - who doesn’t want to have a little fun and skid in the dirt?...  

 

But on the road...  with my riding experience I think its essential for safety. 

 

My bike (BMW G310GS) only has the option to turn the ABS fully off *(it then turns back on automatically after the bike ignition is turned off).

 

To be honest - I wouldn’t be riding bikes without ABS. I’m 44yrs old and am more likely to break myself when taking a tumble on the hard road... I’ve been driving cars in Thailand for 20 years and am familiar with traffic etc - its the actual bike handling itself in an emergency situation where I know I am lacking in experience, ABS takes huge steps in making riding safer for me.

 

I’ve felt the ABS come on a couple of times under heavy braking (when I wasn’t planning it) I suspect they may have been the occasions where I would have otherwise found myself kissing the ground.

 

[Pepper9187]

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

My KTM Duke 390 has the following ABS modes:

- Road: ABS front and rear

- Super Moto: ABS only front, the rear can lock

- Off

I guess it's the same principle on dirt.

I think your KTM has an excellent set up with its ABS settings. 

Indeed !!

That's really good, you don't have any settings on must of the bikes, it's just ON or remove the fuse (well that's only if your bike has a dedicated ABS fuse anyway).

[OneMoreFarang]

9 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

10 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

My KTM Duke 390 has the following ABS modes:

- Road: ABS front and rear

- Super Moto: ABS only front, the rear can lock

- Off

I guess it's the same principle on dirt.

I think your KTM has an excellent set up with its ABS settings. 

 

I’m yet to understand how no ABS on the front could help me on mucky stuff, but understand how seasoned off-road motorcyclists would like the option to turn it off. 

 

The rear - who doesn’t want to have a little fun and skid in the dirt?...  

 

But on the road...  with my riding experience I think its essential for safety. 

 

My bike (BMW G310GS) only has the option to turn the ABS fully off *(it then turns back on automatically after the bike ignition is turned off).

 

To be honest - I wouldn’t be riding bikes without ABS. I’m 44yrs old and am more likely to break myself when taking a tumble on the hard road... I’ve been driving cars in Thailand for 20 years and am familiar with traffic etc - its the actual bike handling itself in an emergency situation where I know I am lacking in experience, ABS takes huge steps in making riding safer for me.

 

I’ve felt the ABS come on a couple of times under heavy braking (when I wasn’t planning it) I suspect they may have been the occasions where I would have otherwise found myself kissing the ground.

This is how it's supposed to work. I am also too old (and wise?) to try that myself ????