Imm Officer Asked To Keep Money & Show Bank Book To Get 1-Year Marriage Extension 1 Month After Application!

[wgdanson]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:45 PM, Khaeng Mak said:

Long stay expats here are currently under siege. Unfortunately, the mass of them do not yet understand that.

Yes I agree that SOME expats seems to be disadvantaged unless you live a life style for which you need 65k a month and can fund that from your foreign bank.

 

If you do not spend 65k, your THB account here will accumulate, if you need more than 65k....send more.

Edited February 6, 2019 by wgdanson

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory baiting post has been removed.

[orchidfan]

On 2/5/2019 at 1:33 PM, brokenbone said:

is proof of pension from embassy only still theoretically enough ?

i.e no other monetary proof required by the book ?

Yes. Just got my 1yr extension stamp yesterday using only the Embassy Statute Declaration.( outer Bangkok Imm office.

 

Next renewable..2020..will have to be the B400k in the bank method.

(The income from pension method falls just short of the mark after foreign bank's exchange rate and trader fees at both ends!

They also did the multi - entry visa AND the 90 report which actually wasn't due for 3 weeks!@

[brokenbone]

7 minutes ago, orchidfan said:

Yes. Just got my 1yr extension stamp yesterday using only the Embassy Statute Declaration.( outer Bangkok Imm office.

 

Next renewable..2020..will have to be the B400k in the bank method.

(The income from pension method falls just short of the mark after foreign bank's exchange rate and trader fees at both ends!

They also did the multi - entry visa AND the 90 report which actually wasn't due for 3 weeks!@

guessing this probably requires a reply from @ubonjoe,

but, can i use that specific immigration office even though

i fall under another district ?

[orchidfan]

34 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

guessing this probably requires a reply from @ubonjoe,

but, can i use that specific immigration office even though

i fall under another district ?

From what I read..changing IO can be a nightmare if you're not living in their jurisdiction. ...and not "known" to them.

I'm still curious if an Embassy letter from your home country but located outside Thailand  (like Hong Kong )would work ???

[Tomtomtom69]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:45 PM, Khaeng Mak said:

Long stay expats here are currently under siege. Unfortunately, the mass of them do not yet understand that.

While I don't like the way this is going, I don't see it your way. I think immigration wants to get rid of the masses of "poor" westerners. Their worldview related to the "rich" westerner has been forever changed by all these people living in Thailand on next to nothing. They want rich people here, period. Not saying this is a good thing, but I think this is the way it appears to me. Secondly, they want to crack down on unscrupulous agents and ensure applicants actually have the money in their accounts and aren't borrowing money from agents. In that sense, they are starting to catch up to western countries who wouldn't tolerate such games.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, Tomtomtom69 said:

Secondly, they want to crack down on unscrupulous agents and ensure applicants actually have the money in their accounts and aren't borrowing money from agents

We shall see, personally I am not convinced it is either what they want, or will achieve!

[JackThompson]

Agreed with what you said about them "only wanting the rich" - and sad, as that eliminates most of those who could be spending money into their economy.  The rich can come, anyway - so booting out the non-rich doesn't affect the rich - it just hurts Thais who benefited from the much greater total-spending (especially on the grass-roots level) of the non-rich.

 

32 minutes ago, Tomtomtom69 said:

Secondly, they want to crack down on unscrupulous agents and ensure applicants actually have the money in their accounts and aren't borrowing money from agents.

This plan may make agents and their IO buddies much wealthier than they are currently.  The 3 mo seasoning for agent apps is ignored now.  Why would it not be ignored for a longer seasoning period? 

 

By July or so, we should see how the agent-business has been reconfigured / stabilized into maximizing revenue / volume under the new rule-set.  If agents and thousands of IOs (from the bottom up) are all swiftly rounded up and put in prison, then I would believe they were serious about eliminating corruption.  But, as long as it is just some agent no one ever heard of, who was helping people from India or Bangladesh to get some sort of faked-document extension, then all that is occurring are some public-relations arrests - nothing to do with the large-scale agent-money system.

 

Quote

In that sense, they are starting to catch up to western countries who wouldn't tolerate such games.

Western nations offer many more benefits for foreigners - especially those married to a citizen.  Any comparison to this simply does not apply - unless/until we get automatic PR, coverage by a strong social-safety-net (doesn't exist at all here), etc.

 

The games are not occurring in the West (at the low-level), because lower-level personnel have high salaries and "to dream of" benefit packages including fat-pension plans - all of which would be lost if they were caught taking a bribe.

Edited February 7, 2019 by JackThompson

[brokenbone]

1 hour ago, orchidfan said:

From what I read..changing IO can be a nightmare if you're not living in their jurisdiction. ...and not "known" to them.

I'm still curious if an Embassy letter from your home country but located outside Thailand  (like Hong Kong )would work ???

what embassy the letter comes from should not matter

in the slightest, its written in english either way,

and either way needs a stamp from bkk.

but the immigration officer makes all the difference,

since its up to that person to grant extension or not.

 

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, brokenbone said:

but, can i use that specific immigration office even though

i fall under another district ?

You have to use the designated office for where you are living. You cannot pick and choose which office you apply at.

[orchidfan]

21 hours ago, brokenbone said:

what embassy the letter comes from should not matter

in the slightest, its written in english either way,

and either way needs a stamp from bkk.

but the immigration officer makes all the difference,

since its up to that person to grant extension or not.

 

Next 90 days report I'll seek out the captain or major in charge and run it past him (her??).

Assuming HK Oz Embassy will "witness" the stat dec. After all that's all they're doing..Not verifying the content of the text! Just witnessing my signature as an Oz citizen and HK resident.

[adam1948]

On 2/7/2019 at 1:14 PM, Tomtomtom69 said:

all these people living in Thailand on next to nothing.

Lets look at a hypothetical situation You are presidente(leader) of a small country. your national currency is called the "Baht" You are looking to and want to increase your GDP and "grow" your country which will also raise your citizens standard of living. You as Presidente(leader) have your choice of allowing 1 of 2 separate groups of people to move into your country and live the rest of their lives ... These 2 groups are as follows

    Group A)   10 people who have an above average
                       income (some are considered rich) and
                       will spend or insert into your economy
                       65,000 Baht each and every month.
                   They bring a monthly total of 650,000

                   Baht into your economy            
As a bonus these people are smug, rude, arrogant and condescending towards all others ... i.e. they are socially hostile, disruptive, negative and damaging psychologically to your society. In short they bring discontent anywhere they live

    Group B) 100 people who have  average income
                         and will spend or insert into your
                         economy only 40,000 Baht each

                         and every month.
                         They bring a monthly total of 4,000,000

                     Baht into your economy
As a bonus these people are intelligent, have common sense, and are compassionate towards all others ... In short they bring social happiness any where they live

Lets take that up a notch and increase those numbers by 10

Group A) 100 people bring     6,500,000 monthly into economy
Group B)1,000 people bring 40,000,000 monthly into economy

Lets take that up a notch and increase those numbers by 100
  Group A)1,000 people       6,500,000 monthly into economy
  Group B)10,000 people 400,500,000 monthly into economy
and so on and so on

Now Mr Presidente(leader) which group, A or B would be the most intelligent, logical, common sense choice? ... Yes I know, tricky question, huh ......

[Tanoshi]

Group C. Elite Visa holders because they have more money than sense.

[luckyluke]

On 2/7/2019 at 1:46 PM, JackThompson said:

Agreed with what you said about them "only wanting the rich"

I am rather skeptical about this theory, as well as the one about " it's all done for the benefit of the Thai banks".

 

If these would be indeed the case,  I not understand why Immigration  do nothing about the many of us who can obtain an extension based on income in homeland ( Every country except 4 ).

 

This is my case, I can prove that I have a monthly income in Belgium greater than 65000 ThB.

 

if i wish I don't have to transfer any amount to Thailand, they never ask from what I live in Thailand, neither do I have to show any amount on a Thai bankbook, in theory even no need to have a Thai bank account.

 

Since 2000 I transfer monthly 2000 Euro to Thailand and usually spend them.

 

But if I wished to live here monthly with 500 Euro, I could.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2019 by luckyluke

[ThomasThBKK]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Group C. Elite Visa holders because they have more money than sense.

Or like me have no other way to stay LEGAL here. 

 

There's just nothing i could do, it's really that easy. I am mid 30s going to my 40s, i have business outside of Thailand and zero intention to work here on low wage with a work permit. Yet i can't leave Thailand as my gf is doing medical research here and the field she does it in Thailand is quite at the top (With the USA which is a total nogo for me to go to - and next to impossible anyway due to me being european).

 

Not every thai elite holder likes to piss money away but for many many people it's the only sane choice for a visa here and we don't need to justify ourselves for that.

 

 

 

 

[baansgr]

Beachside seaview condo 150sqm, gotta go 20 baht only.....is it worth even considering staying in this racist backward place anymore.

[baansgr]

On 2/7/2019 at 1:14 PM, Tomtomtom69 said:

While I don't like the way this is going, I don't see it your way. I think immigration wants to get rid of the masses of "poor" westerners. Their worldview related to the "rich" westerner has been forever changed by all these people living in Thailand on next to nothing. They want rich people here, period. Not saying this is a good thing, but I think this is the way it appears to me. Secondly, they want to crack down on unscrupulous agents and ensure applicants actually have the money in their accounts and aren't borrowing money from agents. In that sense, they are starting to catch up to western countries who wouldn't tolerate such games.

Its really the strong baht, increases in minimum wage and easy credit combined with social media...the thais have their heads up their behinds, have no idea about economics, inflation and so forth, the whole house of cards will soon come crashing down.

[Enki]

On 2/7/2019 at 7:46 AM, JackThompson said:

Western nations offer many more benefits for foreigners - especially those married to a citizen.  Any comparison to this simply does not apply - unless/until we get automatic PR, coverage by a strong social-safety-net (doesn't exist at all here), etc.

No they don't. Did you ever read up how funky complicated it is for a married Thai woman to come to europe to meet her husband? 

The safety net in Thailand is the same as in Germany, just not on the same level, you have health insurance, unemployment insurance and pension funds. Exactly the same as in any European country.

[onera1961]

3 hours ago, baansgr said:

Beachside seaview condo 150sqm, gotta go 20 baht only.....is it worth even considering staying in this racist backward place anymore.

Where is this? There will be black Fridays and people are certainly going to die in the . I understand it is tongue in cheek. Bangkok and Pattya have a oversupply of condos. Good for renters.

Edited February 10, 2019 by onera1961

[onera1961]

On 2/5/2019 at 2:17 AM, Tanoshi said:

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual
income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a
bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year.

This does not say anything about under consideration. Why there is a under consideration?

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, onera1961 said:

This does not say anything about under consideration. Why there is a under consideration?

Marriage extensions always have to be approved by the Regional HQ, by a more senior IO.

Local IO supervisors can sign off retirement extensions on the spot, but don't have the rank to approve ME's.

 

[wxyz1]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:25 AM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

The part about needing to show the 400K again upon your 30 day return to get your final marriage extension of stay stamp is another new, UNANNOUNCED rule being enforced lately by CW Immigration in BKK.

 

There have been multiple posts here about it in recent weeks. Better get used to it, at least at CW BKK.

 

Just to be clear, that new requirement for marriage extensions at BKK CW is entirely separate and different from the new national rules relating to retirement extensions and needing to keep those bank deposit funds at certain levels, including a minimum 400K yearround.

 

 

 

Not new to me. Went through the same process from 2005 until 2012. At the time my agent would hold on to my passbook and debit card during the entire process, and only returned them after the final stamp was issued.

 

According to the agent at the time, checking to make sure the money was available was part of the investigation process which takes place during the one month consideration period.

[onera1961]

53 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Marriage extensions always have to be approved by the Regional HQ, by a more senior IO.

But it is not mentioned in any police order. Why not the same for money also. Just wondering. 

[Tanoshi]

7 hours ago, onera1961 said:

But it is not mentioned in any police order. Why not the same for money also. Just wondering. 

Order 327-2557, section 2.18, extensions based on marriage.

(2) The alien must have proof of relationship.
(3) In the case of spouse, the relationship must be de jure and de facto:

 

Applying at your local IO with Thai wife and a marriage certificate is not proof the relationship is de jure and defacto.

Immigration have the right to investigate the relationship is genuine before issuing the extension.

For this reason applicants are given a 30 day 'Under Consideration' stamp.

Home visits, or speaking to witnesses, who may have to sign a declaration as to the truth of their statement, has become much more prevalent in the last couple of years, to identify genuine marriages, as opposed to marriages of convenience.

 

7 hours ago, onera1961 said:

Why not the same for money also. Just wondering. 

Do you mean why the requirement is less than that of a retirement extension, or, why the new orders for the most part haven't affected marriage extension applications.

[JackThompson]

15 hours ago, Enki said:

No they don't. Did you ever read up how funky complicated it is for a married Thai woman to come to europe to meet her husband? 

It's more trouble, because the rewards are far greater.  The Thai woman with her Euro or American husband can work without issue, plus obtain PR.  I can support my wife from foreign-capital spending (i.e. not taking a Thai's job, or simply "re-cycling Thai money" paychecks) and never, ever get PR or Citizenship here.

 

Quote

The safety net in Thailand is the same as in Germany, just not on the same level, you have health insurance, unemployment insurance and pension funds. Exactly the same as in any European country.

One can actually live decently on Germany's handout amounts.  As well, check out what the Thai "30-Baht" plan covers and does not cover, before making a comparison to European coverage.  Then factor in the much higher-paying jobs - from entry-level and up.

Edited February 11, 2019 by JackThompson

[Kenny202]

On 2/6/2019 at 8:38 AM, recom273 said:

Thanks for the info, although I don’t have problems complying, it’s something I wouldn’t have thought about and could have easy messed up by moving the money to another account.

 

I made an attempt to apply for my first extension in Hat Yai immigration last week.

 

i thought I was prepared, bringing every bit of related paperwork i possess, and renewing a new contract for our rented house.

 

In addition to the paperwork mentioned in this forum, I needed a copy of the landlords tabian baan - the place where HE lives, (my wife isn’t on the tabian baan for the rented house, no one is, but immigration requested) a copy of the first page blank tabian baan, accompanied with a copy of the last page which has a signature of the book applicant (?). We were armed with a copy of the rental agreement along with the copy of landlords ID, they also requested he attend the office to complete a form, but he lives in another province, that suggestion wasn’t brought up again.

 

I had a letter from the bank stating that my funds were in my account for in excess of 3 months, an updated bankbook and I also printed off a copy of my bank statement at home - the bank messed up the date of the letter - but even so, it was not good enough, they wanted a stamped statement from the bank showing all transactions from the last 3 months.

 

As mentioned in the forum, I was asked for 2 sets of everything, along with 2 sets of original photos, which sent us scrabbling to the print shop for the second time.

 

I now have a 60 day extension to reapply, the money isn’t the problem, I’m happy to show whatever they want, but the paperwork requested was way over any expectations that I had after reading the posts here. 

My last extensions was for being the parent of a Thai child but basically the same as Marriage visa. I went through a similar thing. Fair enough they did tell me it was difficult and were trying to push me to a retirement visa but they didn't tell me exactly how difficult it would be. The paperwork, all the copies and specific photos took a few goes, not to mention signing about 5 copies of everything. I can live with that. Then I had to get photos of 3 people in my moo baan in the house with my child at three key areas including the bedroom. Try and get a middle aged well to do Thai women in your bedroom for photos! Back with the photos and they informed me the three people would need to attend immigration for an interview the next week. Was all done piecemeal and involved many trips back and forth. I'm not sure if you are aware of these extra requests or not yet but usually on your first application, sometimes every extension you need to round up people who can vouch you live with your wife / child 

[Kenny202]

On 2/6/2019 at 10:48 AM, Will2011 said:

 

Answering the off topic comment, by default, immigration is an alien-centered organization. While we can sympathize with immigration officers dealing with problematic aliens, their duty is to serve. That is why, they are called civil servants. On the top of that, this is not a free process. If it was free, I would not be expecting much. As mentioned in my original post, the officer was conducting private calls while reviewing my application. This has nothing to do with her job nor being patient and polite.

 

My point is that if there are any new requirements, they should be available to the public written in rules. If rules don't mention specific requirements, then those are not "requirements". Bottom line is you can't comply with a requirement that does not exist, as complying means acting in accordance with a command.

 

In addition to sharing my experience as a report, I would like people who are not keen in allowing more intrusion in freedom and privacy to complain/protest about that. One thing I am sure of is that if nobody complains, rules won't change in your favor. You have nothing to lose and there is a phone number, 1111, available for suggestions and complaints.

In our home countries these people would be seen as servants of the people, paid by our taxes etc. Different culture here. The people.....Thais and farang alike are meant to show respect to government officials as they represent a higher power. I was in the motor registry once and the dog faced woman there suggested to my wife next time I come I wear long pants. She pointed to a dress code on the wall of proper attire. I was dressed expensively and tidily, just I was wearing shorts. My wife explained it was a show of disrespect for their office. I jokingly asked my wife to ask the officer if there was a stronger way I could show my contempt / disrespect. I had to pull her back before she actually did 5555

 

I am not saying it is right or wrong, but it is the way it is here

Edited February 14, 2019 by Kenny202

[Dmitry2222]

First topic is not a news for me. I was informed that i can not spend money which seasoned in the bank during the consideration period (it was 7-8 months ago). Also officer said that him will not approve 40k mounthly method for me - only the way with seasoning money in the bank allowed. I made the report previously. Wellcome to "Chachoengsao" world.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Dmitry2222

[emptypockets]

On 2/6/2019 at 3:38 PM, ozmeldo said:

So what was achieved? The machine got paid. Your friend went thru 3000b worth of hassle and saved the pittance.

 

You denied her the money, some other corrupt official was paid.

 

Genius.

 

Incidentally, it's very possible his letter didn't confirm or other issues such as banking related. She might have been well within her rights to reject it. Your friend obliged the machine by not getting his act together and file correctly perhaps.

Spot on mate. As an aside...a Government letter says he receives 500,000 baht....25 k dollars roughly now....was he on the dole? Or one of the many other 'disability' scams that are so prevalent and paid for by Ozzie taxpayers to fund their lifestyle.

Edited February 14, 2019 by emptypockets

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Dmitry2222 said:

First topic is not a news for me. I was informed that i can not spend money which seasoned in the bank during the consideration period (it was 7-8 months ago). Also officer said that him will not approve 40k mounthly method for me - only the way with seasoning money in the bank allowed. I made the report previously. Wellcome to "Chachoengsao" world.

So, if you didn't have 400k to stick in a bank, the IO thinks it would be better if you left, spent your 40K+ income to live somewhere else, and therefore could not support your wife?  Truly insane how much the anti-farang clique within immigration hates / resents their own fellow citizens.