Imm Officer Asked To Keep Money & Show Bank Book To Get 1-Year Marriage Extension 1 Month After Application!

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, ecoscape said:

All the replies here relate to the400,000 seasoning. I was under the impression that this should be for three months not two when renewing an extension based on marriage ( this would now become four months if waiting another month before extension is granted .) Also, what about those who plan to use the income method 40 k per month with a bank letter now the U.K. embassy will not provide one. Does anyone have any experience of this being meddled with now?

Monthly foreign-xfers of 40K into a Thai account in your name are (apparently) the new standard.  Correct on the money in-the-bank method.

[Tanoshi]

26 minutes ago, ecoscape said:

All the replies here relate to the400,000 seasoning. I was under the impression that this should be for three months not two when renewing an extension based on marriage

Always been 2 months only.

[JackThompson]

30 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

There is no extra seasoning period, there is no change to the criteria requirement for marriage extensions.

If the IO's are confused and the applicants aren't confident enough to question it, well …… I certainly would!

I understand the feeling (believe me) - but read the account in the post above (dumbastheycome) about how the IO looks at it.  To him, you are just some rude foreigner who doesn't obediently comply to his requests (probably his boss's boss requests, in this case), and he can deny service w/o cause. 

 

Maybe you were going to pay your kid's tuition with that money next week.  But guidance from an "authority" (his chain of command) is enough.  You being a "foreigner" makes it even easier.  Read up on the Millgram Experiment to understand how the psychology works:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[ozmeldo]

This is off the rails, totally insane. Why would anyone think they could touch 5he money while they are under consideration?! One of the criterion is MONEY. So, if you touch the money during this time and asked to report you obbiously have a problem.

 

I was simply upset to have to go down and update the freaking book because I arrived a bit late and it historically has taken me hours and hours for them to put 5 stamps in my passport. I wanted to get a multi reentry. Just more I'll thought out, nit picky tedium.

 

But keeping the money until you have the stamp in hand. Absolutely. Why would anyone think or do otherwise?!

 

All the paperwork for dwelling IS bs. This is not discussed anywhere in the non O marriage checklist. It is a dreamed up criterion based off presumably, de jure/facto relationship. After your first year here it shouldn't matter where you live and all that hounding people down to check domicile and residence is so dinosaur third world mentality it really makes everyone look cartoonish.

 

The irony of course is that half the population doesn't live where their house book states anyway.

 

The real issue here is that the entire government is not run by innovative, clever, hard working people looking to do their jobs as best as possible. They lack basic computer skills and systems. Everything is in place to allow bribery an corruption to flourish. It will never change.

 

They can't fix anything. Education, air pollution or a simple affair for foreigners to remain in the country.

 

Finally, it's a make work program that employs tens of thousands. These are also political allies.

 

What should only matter are:

Providing your marriage valid.

Money 400k

 

I have said before, it is next to impossible to maintain a false marriage when the couple isn't living together. Simply reporting to immigration annually for certain countries and or  marriages should cover that. Everyone else, update kr2.

 

Illegal marriage extensions are almost purely the work of corrupt officials.

 

Finally, I think CW is getting do complicated and backed up I can see a time when despite getting in before noon, you might not get processed same day.

 

At least they sorted out the 90day online thing. Only took five years.

 

 

 

[brokenbone]

is income letter alone sufficient for marriage visa ?

also is bringing an agent going to make IO more cooperative in following written regulations ?

Edited February 5, 2019 by brokenbone

[ubonjoe]

3 hours ago, brokenbone said:

is income letter alone sufficient for marriage visa ?

It would depend upon where you apply for the visa. Some embassies and consulates do not ask for financial proof to apply for a non-o visa.

Or are you asking about applying for an extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai. If you have income proof from your embassy equal to or greater than 40k baht it will be accepted. Immigration could ask for backup proof for the document from your embassy.

[a977]

18 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

According to the OP his IO requested an updated passbook showing the 400K when he returns for the stamp.

 

I'll add and repeat though, there is no new order affecting marriage extension applications.

The existing rule of 400K for 2 months prior to an extension application should still apply.

Immigration are confused.

There's the understatement of the year and it's only February

[Briggsy]

4 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

This is off the rails, totally insane. Why would anyone think they could touch 5he money while they are under consideration?! One of the criterion is MONEY. So, if you touch the money during this time and asked to report you obbiously have a problem.

 

[snip for length]

 

 

Excellent post.

[a977]

40 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It would depend upon where you apply for the visa. Some embassies and consulates do not ask for financial proof to apply for a non-o visa.

Or are you asking about applying for an extension of stay based upon marriage to a Thai. If you have income proof from your embassy equal to or greater than 40k baht it will be accepted. Immigration could ask for backup proof for the document from your embassy.

Friend of mine from the land down under recently applied for extension based on marriage, didn't have letter from Embassy but did have signed and stamped letter from Australian Govt. stating income in excess of 500,000thb he was refused because no proof, but a kindly IO was on hand to mention that for 15,000 problem solved friend declined and went to Visa agent 12,000 problem solved. Just goes to show there's more ways than one to shove wet concrete up a cats rectum 

[recom273]

Thanks for the info, although I don’t have problems complying, it’s something I wouldn’t have thought about and could have easy messed up by moving the money to another account.

 

I made an attempt to apply for my first extension in Hat Yai immigration last week.

 

i thought I was prepared, bringing every bit of related paperwork i possess, and renewing a new contract for our rented house.

 

In addition to the paperwork mentioned in this forum, I needed a copy of the landlords tabian baan - the place where HE lives, (my wife isn’t on the tabian baan for the rented house, no one is, but immigration requested) a copy of the first page blank tabian baan, accompanied with a copy of the last page which has a signature of the book applicant (?). We were armed with a copy of the rental agreement along with the copy of landlords ID, they also requested he attend the office to complete a form, but he lives in another province, that suggestion wasn’t brought up again.

 

I had a letter from the bank stating that my funds were in my account for in excess of 3 months, an updated bankbook and I also printed off a copy of my bank statement at home - the bank messed up the date of the letter - but even so, it was not good enough, they wanted a stamped statement from the bank showing all transactions from the last 3 months.

 

As mentioned in the forum, I was asked for 2 sets of everything, along with 2 sets of original photos, which sent us scrabbling to the print shop for the second time.

 

I now have a 60 day extension to reapply, the money isn’t the problem, I’m happy to show whatever they want, but the paperwork requested was way over any expectations that I had after reading the posts here. 

[HHTel]

But surely, extensions based upon marriage can only be approved by BKK so the local offices are probably just "doing as they're told"

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, HHTel said:

But surely, extensions based upon marriage can only be approved by BKK so the local offices are probably just "doing as they're told"

Not all of them are approved in Bangkok. Only those applied for in Bangkok and those in the central region that are under division 3 are sent to Bangkok for approval. The others are sent to the 3 other division headquarters (4, 5 and 6) for the other regions of the country for approval.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

This is off the rails, totally insane. Why would anyone think they could touch 5he money while they are under consideration?!

 

6 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

But keeping the money until you have the stamp in hand. Absolutely. Why would anyone think or do otherwise?!

Because you always could until this recent, unannounced change?  You already Proved Two Months Seasoning as required when you applied.  Where in the rules does it indicate More than Two Months Seasoning is required?  It doesn't say, "Two Months Seasoning plus as long as the under consideration time runs."  It says "Two Months."

 

In addition, there is a practice in law called "precedent."  If a govt or business decides to change their policy, notice should be given, or they come off as untrustworthy - and understatement given the other short-notice or no-notice changes we face from immigration. 

 

6 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

Everything is in place to allow bribery an corruption to flourish.

Agree on that.

 

6 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

Illegal marriage extensions are almost purely the work of corrupt officials.

... and applicants from poor countries, exclusively, based on the news-stories I have seen.  A bit of logical-profiling could greatly narrow the workload.  And I don't mean arbitrarily blocking "those" people, or inventing pointless hoops to jump (as happens now, to force agent-use, justified by the "bad guys" actions), but simply doing things that actually work to catch liars - such as home-visits.

[Cereal]

Seems clear Thailand doesn't really want foreigners living there. Come for a short visit, spend a ton of money, don't cause any problems and then get the hell out.

 

Nice............

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, brokenbone said:

... also is bringing an agent going to make IO more cooperative in following written regulations ?

Per reports, the agent will make all of the "extra" regulations, plus many of the "written" regulations, vanish entirely.

 

45 minutes ago, HHTel said:

... the local offices are probably just "doing as they're told"

In many cases, yes, they are doing as they are told.  In other cases, they add on their own "extra requirements" or "interpretations." 

The fact that the agents can "make it happen" when failed in-person, indicates the agent-money goes up the chain.  I describe it as akin to how income-distribution works in a Multi-Level-Marketing scheme.  They guys at the top likely make a fortune.

Edited February 6, 2019 by JackThompson

[Will2011]

12 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

The key  to any stressless extension of stay based on whatever is  compliance...if need  be in  documented  excess.

That and a patient and polite  demeanor. No...not  subservient as  some  might  try to infer.

Try to understand that IOs have a  boring  task. After 16 years of  bench sits I have   seen the  reactions  of  IOs to the mindset of  those presenting themselves in any  manner the office  does  not need  any more of .

And that is  regardless of  origin or ethnicity.

More than once my wife who  always accompanies me on  extention  days has often been engaged in  conversation with the IO who is processing  my application during which the subject  of the  desire to  F..g  kill some people has  been admitted  by said  IO due to the  arrogant,belligerant, arguementative , superior attitude  of  an applicant. Specific  nationalities  have been mentioned.

It is  written  very clearly  on the application form that  any  approval  for  stay can be refused  for reason that need not be disclosed.

Why give them a reason.

Have a  happy stay.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Answering the off topic comment, by default, immigration is an alien-centered organization. While we can sympathize with immigration officers dealing with problematic aliens, their duty is to serve. That is why, they are called civil servants. On the top of that, this is not a free process. If it was free, I would not be expecting much. As mentioned in my original post, the officer was conducting private calls while reviewing my application. This has nothing to do with her job nor being patient and polite.

 

My point is that if there are any new requirements, they should be available to the public written in rules. If rules don't mention specific requirements, then those are not "requirements". Bottom line is you can't comply with a requirement that does not exist, as complying means acting in accordance with a command.

 

In addition to sharing my experience as a report, I would like people who are not keen in allowing more intrusion in freedom and privacy to complain/protest about that. One thing I am sure of is that if nobody complains, rules won't change in your favor. You have nothing to lose and there is a phone number, 1111, available for suggestions and complaints.

Edited February 6, 2019 by Will2011

[gavlar]

Just had 1st extension based on retirement done at Udon.  All done, plus a multi re entry permit without any additional paperwork, in 15 minutes. Really efficient, very friendly, very helpful.

[ecoscape]

Sorry but STILL confused is the 400 k seasoning for two or three months on the second application for extension ( I already have my first but some post say two, others three months seasoning!!) also is this complete months or date to date? Also is the monthly income of 40k for three months prior applicable instead of 400 k seasoning

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, ecoscape said:

Sorry but STILL confused is the 400 k seasoning for two or three months on the second application for extension ( I already have my first but some post say two, others three months seasoning!!) also is this complete months or date to date? Also is the monthly income of 40k for three months prior applicable instead of 400 k seasoning

For an extension based on marriage and money in the bank it should be 2 months before. Some offices confuse it with the current, soon to be previous, retirement renewal 800k requirement, which is 3 months. Also some places require the 400k is maintained during the time it takes between application and approval.

Edited February 6, 2019 by jacko45k

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

According to the OP his IO requested an updated passbook showing the 400K when he returns for the stamp.

 

I'll add and repeat though, there is no new order affecting marriage extension applications.

The existing rule of 400K for 2 months prior to an extension application should still apply.

Immigration are confused.

They are always confused. wondering which new rule they can make up, or what interpretation of these new rules, why? Because they can.

[LivinLOS]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:38 PM, jacko45k said:

Welcome to the retirement world!

or rather welcome to marriage ????

[Suradit69]

14 hours ago, ecoscape said:

I was under the impression that this should be for three months not two when renewing an extension based on marriage 

It's always been two months for marriage extensions and ( up until now) two months for the first retirement extension and three months thereafter. 

 

Of course, as always, different offices could vary from that.

[Suradit69]

52 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

They are always confused. wondering which new rule they can make up, or what interpretation of these new rules, 

The same could e said about quite a few TV members whose interpretation of the rules and/or the application of the rules as well as the use of terminology would seem to indicate a lack of understanding of the basics. And if their lack of understanding is pointed out to them, they generally do not react well to the perceived loss of face, while dismissing it all as irrelevant semantic folderol.

[natway09]

The reason for this is to limit  non qualifying folks borrowing the monies to qualify &

then giving it back.

Not well publicized but the reasoning is sound & will upset unscrupulous agents that have been living off this scam

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, natway09 said:

The reason for this is to limit  non qualifying folks borrowing the monies to qualify &

then giving it back.

Not well publicized but the reasoning is sound & will upset unscrupulous agents that have been living off this scam

Do you actually believe that?  You may want to review immigration's history with this sort of thing. 

 

Recall what happened when the ED Visa crackdown occurred?  Now the IOs get a wad of cash every 3 mo, for each "hassle free" extension - as planned.

 

Some early reporting on this change (one agent-report, and one person doing a new extension) indicates a similar "quarterly check-in" system will be put in place for this system to function, with a similar agent-role to the kickback scheme currently used for the ED Visa. 

 

In-Person Application Report:

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1081671-foreigners-now-need-to-keep-800k-in-thai-bank-for-three-months-after-retirement-extension-is-granted/?do=findComment&comment=13814911

 

Agent Report:

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1081671-foreigners-now-need-to-keep-800k-in-thai-bank-for-three-months-after-retirement-extension-is-granted/?do=findComment&comment=13812563
 

Edited February 6, 2019 by JackThompson

[ozmeldo]

7 hours ago, a977 said:

Friend of mine from the land down under recently applied for extension based on marriage, didn't have letter from Embassy but did have signed and stamped letter from Australian Govt. stating income in excess of 500,000thb he was refused because no proof, but a kindly IO was on hand to mention that for 15,000 problem solved friend declined and went to Visa agent 12,000 problem solved. Just goes to show there's more ways than one to shove wet concrete up a cats rectum 

So what was achieved? The machine got paid. Your friend went thru 3000b worth of hassle and saved the pittance.

 

You denied her the money, some other corrupt official was paid.

 

Genius.

 

Incidentally, it's very possible his letter didn't confirm or other issues such as banking related. She might have been well within her rights to reject it. Your friend obliged the machine by not getting his act together and file correctly perhaps.

[jesimps]

18 hours ago, ocddave said:

I'm willing to bet the feeling is mutual.

They should also bear in mind that we are customers and without us they'd be manning a wooden hut over on the Myanmar border or some such place. I was in Jomtien yesterday and the little gay guy on the front desk was being incredibly rude to people. Even shouting at some, men and women for simply asking questions. There's no excuse for it. TI isn't a nice place to be these days, I can sympathise with those who can afford to use agents.

[tgeezer]

Long stay expats here are currently under siege. Unfortunately, the mass of them do not yet understand that.

The mass of us are not affected by the changes.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, gavlar said:

Just had 1st extension based on retirement done at Udon.  All done, plus a multi re entry permit without any additional paperwork, in 15 minutes. Really efficient, very friendly, very helpful.

In other words doing their jobs as required.

 

[Jim7777]

On 2/5/2019 at 12:26 PM, ubonjoe said:

Was that at Chaeng Wattana immigration?

There have already been reports of them wanting to see the 400k baht in the bank during the under consideration period and to show your bank book when you go back for the extension stamp.

I think it is for the same reason that the rules for retirement were changed (stop the agent extensions).

That’s another one of many reasons why I would not want to use the 400K method and I’m very glad and lucky that I’m able to easily use the monthly income option but unfortunately some people have to use the money saved in the bank option depending on their income situation.  I’m also very glad that I live far away from Bangkok and up north.  I think the Immigration offices are probably better in these smaller cities where there are a lot fewer of us.  The bigger cities like Bangkok, Phuket, Chiangmai, and maybe a few others I think are just overwhelmed because there are so many of us living there with so many different income situations.