Marriage/Retirement - Interpretations explained.

[theoldgit]

16 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

They even showed me examples of local bank statements, then the same statement from HQ, which gave precise details of the overseas source of income, sometimes with pension providers names where they were paid directly into their Thai bank account, others as Foreign TT transfers (Transferwise as an example) and government state pensions paid direct through the bank of Thailand, which clearly state a Bahtnet deposit.

They'd highlighted only the monthly overseas transactions, not any other transactions.

I currently use TW but I'm one of those who use Kasikorn with their Dummy Branch entry and no other details such as who the deposit was from, before I attempt to open an account with Bangkok Bank, did your contact clarify this?
I think my main concern would be that if I started transferring to a BKK Bank account and then halfway through the year they didn't record one deposit as coming from abroad, then I'm scuppered for my next extension.

 

Thanks very much for taking the trouble to do this and pass on what you've gleaned, I do however share others members views that whilst Division 4 might be taking this approach, others might not, or even indidual IO's.

[Tanoshi]

10 hours ago, STALINGRAD said:

So a German and a Brit both receiving 3000 euro a month in pension go for retirement renewal.The German has an income letter from the embassy, the brit an income letter from the pension office.Thai immigration stamps the German without a euro being transferred to a thai bank?and the Brit has to deposit 800k in a Thai bank or make monthly transfers combined with a large balance in a Thai bank.In the past an income letter was not tied to deposits to an in country bank,still true?

Yes, but that doesn't mean Immigration can't request bank statements on top of your Embassy letter.

You can't spend or support yourself in Thailand with funds in a German bank.

Although it didn't specifically state the declared foreign income had to be in a Thai bank, I believe that was always the intention.

[Sheryl]

12 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Is there anything to say the monthly deposits need to be equal? Ie 12 x 40k?

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

They can't be exactly equal if you are transferring a fixed amount in your own currency. there will be changes in the baht amounts (hopefully small) due to shifts in exchange rate. Hopefully TI understands this.

[wobalt]

You can't spend or support yourself in Thailand with funds in a German bank.

Why not? I was on a project between the German and Thai government.
The German government insisted to pay in a German Bank. so I used my Credit card / ATM card to get access to that money.



Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[HAKAPALITA]

It would be polite if Imo made up for the Nations inability to pay the correct price for the Euro and Dollar. The Bhts stupidly overvalued..

[poohy]

So in a nutshell 

People using 800K method and spending it its now gone up to 1.2 Million because of 400 k dead money

Married although a pain is looking preferable if i can stop wife beating up IO if they mess her around, i wont be pretty for sure!

 

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Monomial said:

If what you are saying were true, then your bank likely would be guilty of money laundering. If you go to your bank, and ask for a credit advice for a transfer, it must show the original, beneficiary from where it originated. What they put in your bank book or on a statement is irrelevant. That is their own internal accounting system. It may very well be domestic from their perspective. But a credit advice will ALWAYS show the actual account it originated from.

 

This is why Immigration insisted you request a statement from the HQ of your bank and not your local branch.

 

Because of the way transferred funds are deposited in your local account, they could go through the HQ's in Bangkok or the Bank of Thailand or a financial institution. Depending on your bank, many of these transfers could be recorded as 'local' or 'domestic', deposits by your local branch.

 

Transferwise have 3 separate local accounts with BKK, Kasikorn and TMB.

99.9% of the time if your account is with BKK, then the transfer will be made using their BKK account.

This isn't 100% guaranteed, it could be deposited in your BKK account through their Kasikorn account.

That would be recorded as a local transfer by BKK, not as FTT if paid from their BKK account.

In that instance you'd have to obtain proof of the foreign transfer from Kasikorn in the form of an Advice receipt.

 

That said, I and many others who bank with BKK and use Transferwise have never known anything other than it to be recorded as an FTT transaction, in our passbooks and statements. I can't speak for other banks.

Sheryl, in another topic stated Advice receipts for foreign transactions could be obtained from Kasikorn HQ, which is true, but unlike the method she obtains them, both the local branch, their call centre and their HQ advised they are normally only issued for businesses. If an individual requests them, it's 100BHT per advice receipt and you must collect from their HQ in Bangkok. They refused to post them to your local branch.

 

For those using the income method and unable to obtain an Embassy letter, I suggest you contact your banks about the issue of how they record foreign transfers. From personal experience BKK are a much more 'foreigner friendly' bank than some of the others.

[WeekendRaider]

Chiangmai Immigration today for myself as well as at least one other American was using 1099's to verify retirement income.  this will not last very long.  a 1099 is merely an "information filing", easily printed off on line or completed by yourself and 100% legal as such.  it is only verified when the data is matched by a "magnetic tape" [internet transmitted data today I would guess, for sure] received by the IRS from that FEIN filer.  it is nothing more than a piece of paper.  meaning, easy for us to use now... but it won't be used for very long.  it's really only so that an honest taxpayer doesn't forget an item, stapling them to a 1040 is for that "forget me not" purpose and not a thing else.  let alone providing them to anyone... the IRS or anyone else verifies nothing at all.  I am x-enrolled IRS as well as a MS Tax from Golden Gate.    

Edited February 12, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[Tanoshi]

4 hours ago, keemapoot said:

A marriage extension specifically allows you to work. However, you bring up an interesting point. If you are on a marriage extension using monthly income from abroad which you represent to be retirement income, would it cause the labor department to re-think this policy? I think not. I think this has no effect on ability to get a work permit because the labor department has no visibility into your visa qualifications I believe.

If your on a marriage extension, your income from abroad isn't regarded as income to support your retirement, it's income to support your Thai wife.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

Well, with respect Sheryl, Tanoshi did mention TransferWise way back in his post on page 2, #20 which I reproduce below:

 

''They even showed me examples of local bank statements, then the same statement from HQ, which gave precise details of the overseas source of income, sometimes with pension providers names where they were paid directly into their Thai bank account, others as Foreign TT transfers (Transferwise as an example) and government state pensions paid direct through the bank of Thailand, which clearly state a Bahtnet deposit''.

 

Perhaps he come back and reconfirm that. Was TransferWise specifically referred to by TI O/P?

 

I am saving all my T/W transaction slips, so I shall be able to prove to the bank or TI that they are authentic foreign deposits, if they are challenged.

 

Many thanks to Tanoshi for his efforts. I think I can sense a collective 'sign of relief in Thailand today'. 

He saw an example where a Transferwise deposit showed as FTT. However this was likely a case where TW used the that bank. As I explained, if an account is at the same bank that TW uses for that particular batch of transactions it will show as FTT.

 

It will NOT show as FTT in your own bank statement if it came first to a different domestic bank and was domestically transferred from there.

 

The issue is not that it was Transferwise vs any other company or Swift. The issue is that in some cases it will have been transferred first to another domestic bank (commercial bank, not BOT) and they will have then made a domestic transfer to yours.

 

At present, TW is using Bangkok Bank the vast majority of time but no guarantee that will remain so as they have arrangement with 3 banks in Thailand.  And even if it stays as it is reported by TW users tio have been over the past year,  from time to time they use another bank.

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, WeekendRaider said:

Chiangmai Immigration today for myself as well as at least one other American was using 1099's to verify retirement income.  this will not last very long.  a 1099 is merely an "information filing", easily printed off on line or completed by yourself and 100% legal as such.  it is only verified when the data is matched by a "magnetic tape" [internet transmitted data today I would guess, for sure] received by the IRS from that FEIN filer.  it is nothing more than a piece of paper.  meaning, easy for us to use now... but it won't be used for very long.  it's really only so that an honest taxpayer doesn't forget an item, stapling them to a 1040 let alone providing them to anyone... the IRS or anyone else verifies nothing at all.    

Are they not also looking for transfers into your bank account? My impression was that they were doing both.  (which er the rules is unnecessary as bank transfers suffice).

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Then what do you do with your "credit advice" documents?  Is the assumption that immigration will accept them?  They might, but I would not count on it.  Whether you "really do qualify" is not the point of their exercise - it is to find a technicality on which to deny the application.

A credit advice is issued by the Thai bank, letterheaded, stamped, certified and details the transaction from the recipients foreign bank account. As acceptable to Immigration as a Thai bank statement.

[Sheryl]

13 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Sheryl, in another topic stated Advice receipts for foreign transactions could be obtained from Kasikorn HQ, which is true, but unlike the method she obtains them, both the local branch, their call centre and their HQ advised they are normally only issued for businesses. If an individual requests them, it's 100BHT per advice receipt and you must collect from their HQ in Bangkok. They refused to post them to your local branch.

 

I've been getting them for years, always sent to my local branch to collect, I have never had to go to HQ (thankfully). It has been free if it was very recent and yes 100Bt otherwise.

 

I was also told I could sign up to get them automatically. I did nto bother as I have been using lump sum method not income so only 1 transfer a year on average.

[WeekendRaider]

while I wait for full age retirement or later at age 67 or 70 something [US Social Security in addition to my other pensions I already live on] and easily assume at some point the BBL direct deposit will be all I will need to satisfy Immigration for a retirement visa... at age 67 or 70.... they have just blown the doors off my need for Thai health coverage.  I have a XXXXX card for Thailand.  it does not cover travel outside Thailand. and I already have had several things done at Cpat Clinic at Suandok and Chiangmai Ram and Phayao Ram.  if I need to keep at least 400,000 in a retail bank account all the time, and I up it to a million or so.... except for providing a hospital with a known intermediary, my insurance card just lost it's main advantage.  and as I get older they will cancel or make it too expensive anyways.  I have had an XXXXX card, used to have a British name, for 15 years.... so that I don't have to have a big balance in a Thai retail bank account.  unless I am so "non ambulatory" I cannot sign a power of attorney, if I have a million sitting at the ready in a bank book under my name only.... what the heck do I want to keep with my Thai health cover any longer????                

Edited February 12, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[WeekendRaider]

Just now, Sheryl said:

Are they not also looking for transfers into your bank account? My impression was that they were doing both.  (which er the rules is unnecessary as bank transfers suffice).

yes, but the one about asking for a 1099 is absolutely silly.   also, I don't understand [at all] why they can't accept a BBL bank book with "FTT" as sufficient proof.  are Thai bank books so easily forged?  and a person at Immigration applying for an extension would chance forging one???? why not just accept the bank book with "FTT" in it?  why a letter and a statement from the bank.. which for me is not in the "weahaung"... it's a long drive to get back home and then back to the city of Chiangmai again... worse, it's at the airport now and a lot of traffic [which I do at my home bank branch office]. 

Edited February 12, 2019 by WeekendRaider

[wobalt]

The marriage extension way is technically much to complex, so at the time being I still stay on the old 1 year visa way.


Gesendet von iPad mit Thaivisa Connect

[newatthis]

12 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Sorry. I have to be misinterpreting something here? I thought you said the lump sum amount needed to be deposited for the 12 months prior to applying for extension. Now you seem to be saying 3 months prior?

On the rest I think you missed my point. And this is hyperthetical based in Imm rules....

Say I dont want to have 800 / 400k sitting around over here. I use the combo method which means I dont have to have min balance of 400k all year round.

So I make small monthly deposits of say 10k per month... A total of 120k for the year. Month 9, I deposit a lump sum of 680k giving me 800k for the year.

This would be minimizing a large amount you would need to have here for only 3 months as opposed to 800k for 6 months then 400k for 6 months.

I hear what your saying re maybe they will think youre a smart a$$ but technically am I reading this right? There is no limits or rules on how much monthly and how much lump sum?

Sent from my SM-J730GM using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Reading from post #1, I think that the 680k has to be kept in the bank for 12 months

 

Funds deposited = 680k

Income monthly [12x10] = 120k

Total = 800k

After seasoning, withdrawal = 0

 

Maybe, another poster can help with this.

 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, Monomial said:

 

Sheryl,

 

If what you are saying were true, then your bank likely would be guilty of money laundering. If you go to your bank, and ask for a credit advice for a transfer, it must show the original, beneficiary from where it originated. What they put in your bank book or on a statement is irrelevant. That is their own internal accounting system. It may very well be domestic from their perspective. But a credit advice will ALWAYS show the actual account it originated from.

 

If your bank doesn't have that information, they would likely get in big trouble from AMLO.

 

The key is to get your statement, mark the specific transactions you want, and then ask for a "credit advice" from your bank on each specific transaction. If it originated overseas, it will show up on the credit advice no matter how it was routed.

 

 

 The transfer to them originated from a domestic commercial bank. How would they know  where that bank received the money from?  Are you saying that the domestic transfer will have contained the information on the money's prior origins? (If so, the whole problem is solved, people can use TW with confidence and no need for those banking elsewhere to change to BB in hopes that all their transfers will be coded FTT).

 

It would be good if someone using a TW and a bank other than BB would get a copy of a Credit Advice to see what info exactly it contains.

[Sheryl]

56 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

I currently use TW but I'm one of those who use Kasikorn with their Dummy Branch entry and no other details such as who the deposit was from, before I attempt to open an account with Bangkok Bank, did your contact clarify this?
I think my main concern would be that if I started transferring to a BKK Bank account and then halfway through the year they didn't record one deposit as coming from abroad, then I'm scuppered for my next extension.

 

Thanks very much for taking the trouble to do this and pass on what you've gleaned, I do however share others members views that whilst Division 4 might be taking this approach, others might not, or even indidual IO's.

Before changing banks, get a copy of the "Credit Advice" from your last transfer and see what detail it contains. See discussion above.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, sumrit said:

 

I know you like to tell people to 'use an agent' Jack but you're scraping the barrel to try and suggest Immigration would reject (some of) the documents the bank supplies that relate to the same request.

You mean like how they once decided to reject all other forms of income verification and insist on Embassy letters? The new order specifies statement and a bank letter only from a Thai bank. Where does it say credit advice?

[spidermike007]

Immigration here is sickening. They such such disdain for foreigners. The recent pronouncement that they want good guys here, is absolutely fake news, and total deflection from the extreme paranoia, xenophobia, and fear of outsiders, gripping this pathetic, incompetent, hapless administration and the useless army. Closing the loopholes was only a small part of the recent reforms. They are largely aimed at reducing the ex-pat population, in my opinion, and discouraging more Western ex-pats from moving here. Returned from immigration recently, after renewing my marriage visa. The upside to this visa, is that only 400,000 is needed as a deposit, and it does not have to stay in the bank, once your visa is granted. The downsides are:

 

The hurdles you need to jump over, in order to get a marriage visa are stupid, ridiculous, unnecessary, draconian, wasteful, and silly. I understand the need for them to verify that you are a legitimate couple. Upon the first application. But, the dumb requirements should not relate to renewals. You should not be required to show fresh images of the house each time, copies of the marriage papers, the house documents, either come with a local Thai witness, or bring a signed affidavit from a local Thai each time, provide new maps to the house, and dozens of other requirements.

 

I just do not even know what to say about the process. I felt like a street dog by the time I left. After hours of paperwork, copy after copy after copy, each page having to be signed, and then being grilling by the surly officer, I literally felt like a street dog. The level of disrespect that immigration shows married couples here, and foreigners in general, is totally uncalled for, beyond the pale, and inane. The copy woman, the guy sorting our papers, they were all nice. But, the officers? Such sourpusses. The woman who was helping us was so difficult to work with, when she finally rejected us over the tiniest thing she did not like, after nearly an hour of reviewing every document with a microscope, so to speak, and said no, I responded by saying yes. YES, you are going to do this. Yes, you are going to do this right now. YES, you are going to stop saying NO to me right now. This ends now. She looked at me and did not know what to say. I asked for the manager. The top brass came over, and we had it sorted in 30 minutes. Took nearly 3 hours. And as usual, it will be a month, until I have final approval. Is it worth it? NO. It is my last marriage visa. I will go back to a retirement visa next year, or leave the country, before I subject myself to that abuse one more time.

 

There is absolutely no need, that I can think of, to do this each and every year. It is nonsensical for everyone involved, to keep repeating the same steps over, and over, and over. It is humiliating, it is demeaning, it is disrespectful, it is petty, it is churlish. It is so wasteful. It is so unnecessary. It accomplishes nothing. It causes inconvenience to both foreigners and Thais. Immigration here really has it wrong. They could be doing so much better. I totally blame Prayuth, and the biggest joke. Immigration has gotten worse under their tutelage and their arrogance, and their insufferable xenophobia knows no bounds. This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. It also leaves a rather bad feeling toward our hosts. They could be doing so much better. In my opinion alot of us bring alot to the table here. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels, I do not even know where to begin. 

•  

[WeekendRaider]

I mean simply, on my earlier post, and I don't know if it's okay to say the name but I am talking about Aetna (which was BUPA).... my main reason for having it is that I invest in Thai counters, with tax refunds.  I don't want to keep even as little a million in a retail bank.... and even went so far as to have a Aetna or BUPA card for many years... so that I don't have to worry about not having immediately ready cash for inpatient expenses (and never by the way outpatient which is never at all expensive).  so next year, I cancel my insurance... before I get old and they do anyways, no matter what they say today about always insuring me.  I lost my reason if I have to have a million in the bank most of the time.  Cpat Clinic and Chiangmai Ram know me as a customer already and it would be easy to sign a paper unless my head is konked in. which is unlikely for me, i.e. I drive a 4x4 not a scooter.  

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

IMO- since most banks use different codes for the same reason- it will be  impossible for each IO to be aware of what each code means and take the time to verify each code.  In other words- an IO looking at a bank statement/bank book will be looking for the amount each month- 65K/49K and the dates and making sure there is a deposit each month.  The coding will become insignificant and the verification of how the money got into your account  inconsequential.  Otherwise- it becomes too time consuming for the IO,

 

While Region 4- appears to have it's act together- I am hoping the same sanity extends to other regions.

 

Thanks to Tanoshi for taking the time to talk to the right people and then letting the rest of us know.  Well done-Sir!!

What OP has said is that there are bank statements that can be obtained from bank HQs that provide full detail in a clear manner (free of bank specific codes) and that all banks have been advised of the need for these.

 

This would be consistent with the terminology in the police order which talks about "bank statement".

 

I have never gotten a statement from my bank HQ so cannot say from experience. Statements issued by my local branch have even less detail than the bank book provides.  Maybe one of you with an extension coming up via income or combo method could get one and post the results? (minus any identifying info of course). So we can all see it.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I've been getting them for years, always sent to my local branch to collect, I have never had to go to HQ (thankfully). It has been free if it was very recent and yes 100Bt otherwise.

I know Sheryl and your very fortunate.

Taking your advice and experience, I spent 5 hours in a KK branch 3 weeks ago assisting another expat to get this sorted. We were emphatically told this service was for business use.

They didn't refuse to supply credit advices if requested by an individual, but did insist they must be collected and paid for in person at their HQ in Bangkok. His Thai wife even became frustrated negotiating with them.

 

After 5 hours of banging his head against the wall, he closed his account, walked across the road, opened an account at BKK, then contacted his pension providers with the new bank account details.

 

 

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Immigration here is sickening.

How many times have you posted this same rant?

[Sheryl]

4 minutes ago, WeekendRaider said:

I mean simply, on my earlier post, and I don't know if it's okay to say the name but I am talking about Aetna (which was BUPA).... my main reason for having it is that I invest in Thai counters, with tax refunds.  I don't want to keep even as little a million in a retail bank.... and even went so far as to have a Aetna or BUPA card for many years... so that I don't have to worry about not having immediately ready cash for inpatient expenses (and never by the way outpatient which is never at all expensive).  so next year, I cancel my insurance... before I get old and they do anyways, no matter what they say today about always insuring me.  I lost my reason if I have to have a million in the bank most of the time.  Cpat Clinic and Chiangmai Ram know me as a customer already and it would be easy to sign a paper unless my head is konked in. which is unlikely for me, i.e. I drive a 4x4 not a scooter.  

Very, very unwise thing to do.

 

They will NOT cancel you based on age. Your premiums will go up as you age, but you will not be cancelled.

 

You do NOT need to have 1 million in the bank most of the time. 800/400 if using the lump sum method, less if using combo. And the portion you are required to have in the bank, you cannot withdraw for any purpose, including medical emergency, without forfeiting your next extension.

 

If you are still healthy (no major pre-exisitng conditions) there are better plans than AETNA you can get, better level of cover and guaranteed not to raise premiums based on claim history which is the big issue with ATENA Thailand.

 

 

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I know Sheryl and your very fortunate.

Taking your advice and experience, I spent 5 hours in a KK branch 3 weeks ago assisting another expat to get this sorted. We were emphatically told this service was for business use.

They didn't refuse to supply credit advices if requested by an individual, but did insist they must be collected and paid for in person at their HQ in Bangkok. His Thai wife even became frustrated negotiating with them.

 

After 5 hours of banging his head against the wall, he closed his account, walked across the road, opened an account at BKK, then contacted his pension providers with the new bank account details.

 

 

I suspect this was a  local branch problem.

 

I don't ask for them at my local branch, I request them from HQ. (Call center). Never a problem and never told to collect then in Banghkok - and I have done this every year x 10+ years.

 

 

 

 

[racyrick]

All the above is nice information BUT, the bottom line, it still will be up to the individual IO officer as to their interpretation of the rules and how strict they are 2019 renewals as many people will not have 12 months of international transfers to show since this just became a rule.

You say they understand and will be lenient this year, but I hardly doubt it and when they say no, you only have 6 months of transfers, what do you do now???

This is why myself and others will always be nervous about our next renewal extension.

I am married and been here 10 years and have a son. What if they tell me sorry, 12 months or no extension.

I don't have 400,000 to put in the bank.

[Tanoshi]

4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What OP has said is that there are bank statements that can be obtained from bank HQs that provide full detail in a clear manner (free of bank specific codes) and that all banks have been advised of the need for these.

The HQ's have been informed exactly what's required by Imm and it's not a problem for them to issue statements with more detailed information than you receive in a local statement.

The branches though apparently haven't been informed, which is presumably why TI were insistent you should request statements from the HQ at your local branch.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I suspect this was a  local branch problem.

 

I don't ask for them at my local branch, I request them from HQ. (Call center). Never a problem and never told to collect then in Banghkok - and I have done this every year x 10+ years.

No, it was the call centre, then confirmed directly by HQ.

The branch were extremely helpful, understood the problem and made every effort to assist.

Perhaps a change in policy since you started obtaining them. 

 

He was taking your advice and personal experience, but hit a brick wall at KK. TIT.