Retirement Visa Problem Solved 100% Legal

[Leslie850]

 I read with delight the reply' on this post, I have complied with the rules enforced, what I need to show and what I need to live on are two different things, yes their would be costs involved with this method, show me a way where you have no costs, we all have to live with the necessary evil of bank transfers Agents, you now run the risk of inspection of your bank account, how would you explain that? Thailand does not do Free.

i love this country its rules regulations, Thailand will always belong to Thailand. The U.K. Belongs to every other country but England, The USA is owned by China, Russia. We all come here for a better life, I have got that here dispite the new imposed rules, My glass is always half full.

 

[55Jay]

Maybe not "illegal" per se, but it's certainly not an efficient, long term strategy.

 

If I was in OP's shoes and had the 65k/mo but didn't need it all, I would accrue the unused, monthly surplus here, ideally in another account with marginally better interest rate. 

 

20k/mo surplus would result in a 400k lump sum in less than 2 years.  That opens a 3rd path to the OP for annual extensions. 

 

Then go ahead and reduce monthly inbound transfers to the lesser, 45k amount.   Or keep going and build the fund up to 800k in another 20 months. 

[lamyai3]

28 minutes ago, Lloydyboy said:

I don’t see why a person from one country can just show certified income letter and one from another country has to bring in THB 65,000 every month whether needed or not.

Indeed, the word "income" is quite sufficient in an embassy letter. It was very poor form of the embassies to accept these new rules if they were only targeted at certain countries - they should have refused and sent immigration back to instigate these rule changes themselves in a fair and consistent manner. I wouldn't be surprised if they were hoodwinked. 

[ChouDoufu]

2 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Yes, seasoning was brought in to attempt to stop this (at one time there was no seasoning at all on the 800k), but it could still have been done perhaps up to three times a year. I'm just pushing the same idea to it's absurd conclusion regarding income recycling, though as has been mentioned it wouldn't be genuine income.

if no pension or source of "income" is needed, other than FTT notations in a bankbook, then nothing stopping a group of setting up an account in lao/cambo with several thousand baht equivalent in us$.

 

each one can use the lao/cambo bank to swift 65k worth of us$ to their thai bank every month.  every 90 days one of them can do a border run and redeposit the unused funds.

 

no forex fees and potentially only one-way xfer fees.  heck, if they set up a business in lao/cambo they can actually pay themselves income as online consultants.

 

don't think there's anything illegal in this, if all the requirements are met and nothing is forged.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by ChouDoufu

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

If you import 65,000 as required and only spend 45,000 then that's 20,000 per month you can place in an alternate account. After only 40 months you'll have the 800,000 needed to extend on that basis and can import whatever you like ????

 

And he's been here 6 years - 72 months - at 20k a month, should have a nice little bank balance to cover everything!

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, ChouDoufu said:

no forex fees and potentially only one-way xfer fees.  heck, if they set up a business in lao/cambo they can actually pay themselves income as online consultants.

No Forex fee to send money to Thailand and they are coded FTT? How is the currency fluctuations in Cambodia? 

[indepth]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

What job would that be? He’s a moderator and I have no interest in being one.

 

His job is not to answer the trolls trolling me. His job is to delete pointless posts like yours and this reply to it!

Your abuse is out of order. UJ always gives correct visa info, you dont.

[Psimbo]

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH- can the Mods please put a limit of 20 different threads on this topic!!!

[indepth]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

Indeed, the word "income" is quite sufficient in an embassy letter. It was very poor form of the embassies to accept these new rules if they were only targeted at certain countries - they should have refused and sent immigration back to instigate these rule changes themselves in a fair and consistent manner. I wouldn't be surprised if they were hoodwinked. 

Where did you get the info that TI instructed the 4  embassy's to stop issuing income letters?

[ChouDoufu]

10 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

No Forex fee to send money to Thailand and they are coded FTT? How is the currency fluctuations in Cambodia? 

us$ accounts in cambo and in thailand.   why change to baht if immigration will accept foreign currency accounts?  they only change what they need for living.

[indepth]

3 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH- can the Mods please put a limit of 20 different threads on this topic!!!

We're bored, OK?

[salavan]

12 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

In theory you could avoid both, have the money in a foreign currency account in Thailand (accepable to immigration) no exchange losses sending pounds/dollars back and forth, set up accounts with someone like citibank who do free transfers between citibank accounts across borders.

My io told me that an FCD account was unacceptable had to be in Thai baht its seems to be up to the discretion of your local io

[ChouDoufu]

4 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH- can the Mods please put a limit of 20 different threads on this topic!!!

would the 20-topic limit proposal constitute a separate topic?

[elviajero]

11 minutes ago, indepth said:

Your abuse is out of order. UJ always gives correct visa info, you dont.

What abuse would that be.

 

No he doesn’t. He nearly always gives correct visa info.

 

Give me an example of incorrect advice I’ve given, I’m always happy to learn.

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, scotinsiam said:

The issue also seems (according to other threads and immigration documents provided to the person who opened the thread) to be that when using the income method - from 2020 the money must be from a pension and also verified by your Embassy which some Embassies have already stopped doing.

 

What a cluster&^*k - I do use the money in the bank method but this is still annoying as no doubt the 800k figure will increase.

 

 

The information that poster was given by his IO was incorrect as regards income method. they apparently have not seen the police order on income method verification. Or else have decided on their own to disregard it. That order was specifically issued to address the fact that soem Embassies have stopped doing income letters. It makes it very clear that in the absence of an Embassy letter, n]bank statement showing monthly trabsfer of 65k baht each month fro mabroad will be acceppted. It does nto have to coem from a pension. Just needs to come from aborad.

 

See also this thread

And the amendment to police order 138/2557 a link to which is posted here as item no 16:

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/981135-laws-regulations-police-orders-etc/

 

 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, baansgr said:

How are funds transferred back to host country. 24x transfer payments plus loss on XE, how much per annum does that cost.

You already had to make 12 xfers, anyway, if going the income route.  I think someone quoted 200 Baht per-each for Dee Money, w/ 1st one free? 

 

2 hours ago, indepth said:

How could you disguise the money as being from a Govt Pension. You  need to keep up with the latest gossip. 

Photoshop a pension document?

 

Let's face it, all immigration had to do was refer for prosecution anyone caught lying on stat-docs, instead of fantasizing about embassies tracing back multiple types of payment-sources, and they could have kept a much more formidable deterrent to fraud of this sort.  Faking income on embassy-letters was a felony-lie (AU, USA - not sure about UK) - while this "show transfers" routine is so easy to work around, anyone who ever read a crime-novel can figure out the obvious workaround.

[Lacessit]

I fail to see why this is so difficult. If the OP is bringing in 65K per month, and only spending 45K, why not just save the excess and every ten months buy a 10 baht gold bar? Negotiable anywhere in Thailand, and at a discount anywhere else.

I have not seen a regulation in any country which requires incoming passengers to declare gold in their possession. Although I understand in the US, for some time it was illegal to own gold.

 

 

[elliss]

11 hours ago, elviajero said:

Expats can do whatever they want! This idea could work for some, and good luck to them.

 

My point is that when they do it they should understand they are committing fraud. The OP’s claim that this is 100% legit is 100% wrong.

   How is it fraud , OP  brings the required amount into Thailand ,

     what he does  with that money is up to him . 

      A far better option than having a dodgy illegal  extension , using so called visa agents .

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by elliss

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, elliss said:

   How is it fraud , OP  brings the required amount into Thailand ,

     what he does  with that money is up to him . 

      A far better option than having a dodgy illegal  extension , using so called visa agents .

I agree that if the OP has a 65K income he is not committing fraud, and can do whatever he likes with his money. 

 

However, he has made this video to show how — someone with a 45K income — can get around the rules by faking a 65K income. That’s fraud.

 

No one with a genuine 65K income needs to have an extra £500 to use to send an extra 20K as suggested in the video. They would just send the 65K every month, and send money back as and when they wanted.

[OJAS]

20 hours ago, tropo said:

The main problem remains that not all immigration offices will accept the monthly deposit method. Unless something has changed, Jomtien told one person who enquired last month that they would not accept monthly deposits for retirement extensions.

So 800k semi-permanently seasoned in the bank is now the exclusively strict order of the day for retirement extensions at Jomtien, is it?

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

20 hours ago, tropo said:

The main problem remains that not all immigration offices will accept the monthly deposit method. Unless something has changed, Jomtien told one person who enquired last month that they would not accept monthly deposits for retirement extensions.

So 800k semi-permanently seasoned in the bank is now the exclusively strict order of the day for retirement extensions at Jomtien, is it?

No. Jomtien will now have the same instructions as all the other offices about how to process the new options.

[indepth]

15 hours ago, elviajero said:

What abuse would that be.

 

No he doesn’t. He nearly always gives correct visa info.

 

Give me an example of incorrect advice I’ve given, I’m always happy to learn.

" No. There is nothing, so far, to suggest they want proof of the source of the income. This creates a loophole that people will now exploit. ".

[elviajero]

25 minutes ago, indepth said:

15 hours ago, elviajero said:

What abuse would that be.

 

No he doesn’t. He nearly always gives correct visa info.

 

Give me an example of incorrect advice I’ve given, I’m always happy to learn.

" No. There is nothing, so far, to suggest they want proof of the source of the income. This creates a loophole that people will now exploit. ".

How is that incorrect?

[tropo]

17 hours ago, elviajero said:

No. Jomtien will now have the same instructions as all the other offices about how to process the new options.

Do you have a link to the report that mentioned this? The last report I read indicated they were not going to allow monthly deposits as proof of income. That was late last month. Most of these income threads become so long it's easy to miss new reports.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, tropo said:

Do you have a link to the report that mentioned this? The last report I read indicated they were not going to allow monthly deposits as proof of income. That was late last month. Most of these income threads become so long it's easy to miss new reports.

The amendment to police order 138/2557 issued on December 21st clearly states you can use 12 months of transfers into the country to apply for an extension. Probably from a immigration officer that was not aware of the new rules.

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The amendment to police order 138/2557 issued on December 21st clearly states you can use 12 months of transfers into the country to apply for an extension. Probably from a immigration officer that was not aware of the new rules.

I'm aware of the police order, but after that was reported, one member went to Jomtien to enquire about it and they told him the monthly deposit option would not be allowed (note: at Jomtien). This was a report from late last month. I can't put my finger on it as it has been lost under a mountain of threads on this topic.

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, tropo said:

I'm aware of the police order, but after that was reported, one member went to Jomtien to enquire about it and they told him the monthly deposit option would not be allowed (note: at Jomtien). This was a report from late last month. I can't put my finger on it as it has been lost under a mountain of threads on this topic.

That might have been a post wrt Phetchabun by @billsmart

Edited February 13, 2019 by jacko45k

[tropo]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

That might have been a post wrt Phetchabun by @billsmart

No, it was about a member who went into the Jomtien office and asked the guys upstairs. What I'm specifically after is information about the Jomtien office. Elviajero has suggested above that Jomtien has joined the party (allow monthly deposits), but I would like some confirmation from other reports.

[Leslie850]

19 hours ago, elliss said:

   How is it fraud , OP  brings the required amount into Thailand ,

     what he does  with that money is up to him . 

      A far better option than having a dodgy illegal  extension , using so called visa agents .

 

 

 

Using an Agent now is not a good route, if immigration ask to see your funds what do you do, Panic, if they ask to see my book using this method they see 65,000 per month no problem.? I have to add I am doing the Marriage visa route as I have 45,000 into my account every month, this was a suggestion to help others, as many people have said I am not doing anything Illegal I am doing what is required as can many other people, the main reason why i suggested it was for us people who cant afford to have 400,000 Baht sat in a bank doing nothing here, this a way of getting what you want LEGALLY. It if Far Far more legal than using an agent. On the question of Income, as long as you transfer 65,000 per month from overseas they don't care how you got it some people say it has to be a pension, why, what about the people who rent their houses as income are you telling me these people will be excluded.

A good video to watch is Kev in Thailand there is a place in Thailand for Cheap Charlies. Or do the Elite who stay here want Thailand all to themselves.

Thank you all for your reply's.

 

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Leslie850 said:

Using an Agent now is not a good route, if immigration ask to see your funds what do you do,

The point of an agent (or going out for a Visa, like I do), is to not deal with immigration. 

 

3 hours ago, Leslie850 said:

On the question of Income, as long as you transfer 65,000 per month from overseas they don't care how you got it some people say it has to be a pension, why, what about the people who rent their houses as income are you telling me these people will be excluded.

They should not care - money is money.  They play this game, to force you to an agent.  They have excluded me this way, because I am not old enough to get a "pension" yet.

 

3 hours ago, Leslie850 said:

Or do the Elite who stay here want Thailand all to themselves.

Some - yes.  The, "I saw this poor old farang eating cheap soup along a street..." remarks give it away.  And the people controlling immigration-policy seem to share their perspective - that soup-vendor should be back on his farm scraping-by, not making better money.