Dead Buddhist Monk Is Alive

[sabaijai]

Dead Buddhist Monk Is Alive

Bumninorn.ru, Feb 25, 2007

Moscow, Russia -- “Exhumation of the body of Hambo Lama Itigelov took place September 10 th, 2002 on the territory of cemetery near the city of Ulan Ude (Russian Federation). He died and was buried in 1927 and the exhumation was performed in presence of relatives, officials, and specialists”.

This was the information that appeared in Russian mass media regarding Buryat Lama who was exhumed from the grave in the beginning of the 21 st century. The grave contained a wooden box and there was a sitting Buddhist lama in ‘lotus’ pose. His body was preserved as if it was mummified, however it was not. Soft muscles and skin, folding joints. The body was covered with silk clothes and fabric.

Hambo Lama Itigelov is a real person quite well known in Russian history. He studied in Anninsky Datsan (Buddhist university in Buryatia, nowadays there are ruins only) and obtained degrees in medicine and philosophy (on the nature of emptiness), he created an encyclopedia of pharmacology.

In 1911 Itigelov became a Hambo Lama (the head of Buddhist church in Russia). During the period from 1913 till 1917 he participated in social actions of the Tsar, being invited to 300-year anniversary of Romanov’s house, opened the first Buddhist temple in St. Petersburg, and Nikolai II gave him St. Stanislav award on 19 th of March, 1917.

During the First World War Itigelov created and inspired the organization called “Buryat brothers”. He was helping the army with money, meals, clothes, medicaments, he also built a set of hospitals with lama doctors helping wounded soldiers. For that he got St. Anna award and others.

In 1926 Itigelov advised the Buddhist monks to leave Russia, since ‘the red teaching was coming’ (Itigelov himself never left Russia). In 1927, being 75, he told lamas to begin meditation, since he said he was preparing to die. Lamas did not want to perform this meditation because Itigelov was still alive. Thus, Itigelov began to meditate by himself, lamas joined him and soon he died.

Ititgelov left a testament where he asked to bury him as he was, sitting in lotus pose in the cedar box on traditional cemetery. It was done. There was also a statement, where he asked other monks to exhume him after several years. (This is the exciting point – this means he knew that his body would be preserved). This was done in 1955 and in 1973 by Buddhist monks but they were scared to tell everybody about this, since communist regime did not leave any space for religion in society. Only in 2002 the body was finally exhumed and transferred to Ivolginsky Datsan (a residence of today’s Hambo Lama) where it was closely examined by monks and, which is now more important, by scientists and pathologists. The official statement was issued about the body – very well preserved, without any signs of decay, whole muscles and inner tissue, soft joints and skin. The interesting thing is that the body was never embalmed or mummified.

Two years passed. Itigelov’s body is now kept open air, in contact with other people, without any temperature or humidity regimes. How Itigelov keeps this condition, nobody knows.

This is the ONLY KNOWN AND CONFIRMED CASE OF IMPERISHABLE BODY throughout the whole world. Embalming and mummifying is well known among different nations and peoples – Chili (Chinchora), Egypt mummies, Christian Saints, communist leaders and others. Some bodies were found in permafrost, however when they contacted with oxygen atmosphere they perished within several hours.

However, there are descriptions of such things in Buddhist texts, but there are no confirmed examples. Well, now there is.

For two years after the exhumation of Itigilov’s body it does not perish nor decay, no fungus, no negative things happen to it. Itigelov said before he died that he left a message to all peoples on Earth. This message contains no words. Now it is our turn to understand it.

[meadish_sweetball]

Interesting. It is claimed that the originally Lao abbot who built the 'Wat Khaek' outside of Nong Khai, is also preserved without any external aids. However, he sits inside an area sealed off by a glass wall, and I am not sure whether scientists have been allowed to examine the body.

[chownah]

So is he dead or is he alive? Seems like he's dead although the title claims he is alive.

Seems rather hoaxish....have medical scientists been called in...I mean regular medical scientists....from mainstream universities....etc.

If its not a hoax then what does it mean?...I really don't see the meaning in this (assuming no hoax)...does anyone?

Chownah

[Briggsy]

This reminds me of the story surrounding the body of Ho Chi Minh. Anyone know that one?

[Grover]

well, if it is true that is amazing.

Back in the days of the Buddha, advanced spiritual seekers were often capable (according to the scriptures) of various magical feats. I wonder if he gained some super powers through his meditation.

[PETERTHEEATER]

This is the ONLY KNOWN AND CONFIRMED CASE OF IMPERISHABLE BODY throughout the whole world. Embalming and mummifying is well known among different nations and peoples – Chili (Chinchora), Egypt mummies, Christian Saints, communist leaders and others. Some bodies were found in permafrost, however when they contacted with oxygen atmosphere they perished within several hours.

Can't say that I agree with that statement. There are many wats around Thailand that display the self-preserved corpses of monks, usually well known figures. As an example, the former abbot of a wat 11 kms NE of Suan Phung (Ratchaburi Province) is displayed in a glass case ventilated by just a simple electric fan. His body, particularly the skin, is remarkably preserved albeit the flesh has shrunk. I have seen similar displays on my journies around the Kingdom.

Peter

[GracelessFawn]

Wow! Interesting! Thanks for posting it here Sabaijai.

[ColPyat]

This is the ONLY KNOWN AND CONFIRMED CASE OF IMPERISHABLE BODY throughout the whole world. Embalming and mummifying is well known among different nations and peoples – Chili (Chinchora), Egypt mummies, Christian Saints, communist leaders and others. Some bodies were found in permafrost, however when they contacted with oxygen atmosphere they perished within several hours.

Can't say that I agree with that statement. There are many wats around Thailand that display the self-preserved corpses of monks, usually well known figures. As an example, the former abbot of a wat 11 kms NE of Suan Phung (Ratchaburi Province) is displayed in a glass case ventilated by just a simple electric fan. His body, particularly the skin, is remarkably preserved albeit the flesh has shrunk. I have seen similar displays on my journies around the Kingdom.

Peter

Yes, definately so.

A few months ago here in my neighborhood temple in Bangkok was such a case that went through the Thai media. Lots of trouble at first, the new abbot wanted to burn the monk who died 2 years ago. His followers staged a demonstration, claiming that he can't be burned before the coffin was opened and confirmed if he was mummified. There was even a scuffle with police in the temple grounds.

After palace intervention a date a week later was set where the simple not air tight coffin was to be opened.

I have been there during the opening. I have never seen a better preserved mummy, far better than the one in the picture here. His face was as if he died just 5 minutes ago, no discoloration, no swelling or sinking of the features, hair stubble perfect.

His hands had a bit of white mold, his feet were a bit leathery, and hardly any odour.

I was lucky as well. During the day he was supposed to be given his funeral amulets were given out (very beautyful ones), and i managed to get the two different models. A week later, at the opening date, they sold already for 500 baht each at some stores outside the temple. No idea what they are worth now.

Edited February 26, 2007 by ColPyat

[sabaijai]

This is the ONLY KNOWN AND CONFIRMED CASE OF IMPERISHABLE BODY throughout the whole world. Embalming and mummifying is well known among different nations and peoples – Chili (Chinchora), Egypt mummies, Christian Saints, communist leaders and others. Some bodies were found in permafrost, however when they contacted with oxygen atmosphere they perished within several hours.

Can't say that I agree with that statement. There are many wats around Thailand that display the self-preserved corpses of monks, usually well known figures. As an example, the former abbot of a wat 11 kms NE of Suan Phung (Ratchaburi Province) is displayed in a glass case ventilated by just a simple electric fan. His body, particularly the skin, is remarkably preserved albeit the flesh has shrunk. I have seen similar displays on my journies around the Kingdom.

Peter

Yes, definately so.

A few months ago here in my neighborhood temple in Bangkok was such a case that went through the Thai media. Lots of trouble at first, the new abbot wanted to burn the monk who died 2 years ago. His followers staged a demonstration, claiming that he can't be burned before the coffin was opened and confirmed if he was mummified. There was even a scuffle with police in the temple grounds.

After palace intervention a date a week later was set where the simple not air tight coffin was to be opened.

I have been there during the opening. I have never seen a better preserved mummy, far better than the one in the picture here. His face was as if he died just 5 minutes ago, no discoloration, no swelling or sinking of the features, hair stubble perfect.

His hands had a bit of white mold, his feet were a bit leathery, and hardly any odour.

I was lucky as well. During the day he was supposed to be given his funeral amulets were given out (very beautyful ones), and i managed to get the two different models. A week later, at the opening date, they sold already for 500 baht each at some stores outside the temple. No idea what they are worth now.

Good story. I wonder how he'll look in 75 years?

[ColPyat]

Good story. I wonder how he'll look in 75 years?

If i would know how to i would like to attach a photo i took of the monk.

Anyhow, in one of the Discovery Channel DVD's about mummies i recently rented, there was one feature also about japanese mummies, and how Buddhist monks there developed techniques how to mummify themselves before death, a process that is now outlawed. That technique consisted of rigorous diet and exercise over many years to diminish bodyfat, and in the end they had to ingest laquer, i believe, which worked as a natural anti bacterial agent to stop the process of decomposition.

[Grover]

if you have a photo, I for one would like to see it.

Try "add reply" and somewhere on the page there is an "attachment system" where you select the file from your computer and upload it to your post. try that.

[Grover]

Anyhow, in one of the Discovery Channel DVD's about mummies i recently rented, there was one feature also about japanese mummies, and how Buddhist monks there developed techniques how to mummify themselves before death, a process that is now outlawed. That technique consisted of rigorous diet and exercise over many years to diminish bodyfat, and in the end they had to ingest laquer, i believe, which worked as a natural anti bacterial agent to stop the process of decomposition.

what a weird way to die.

this is unrelated, but it brings back freakish memories of the "medical" museum in some hospital in BKK some years ago. Full of preserved body parts, whole humans, and much worse. etc...

[ColPyat]

if you have a photo, I for one would like to see it.

Try "add reply" and somewhere on the page there is an "attachment system" where you select the file from your computer and upload it to your post. try that.

I tried it, doesn't work. Tried it with the upload tool.

I minimized the file to about 60 K, but it just takes forever without anything happening.

[brahmburgers]

There's a bizarre tradition among a small sect of Japanese monks who became 'self-preserved' (mummified) by drinking the waters of a natural water seepage. Turned out the water had arsenic in it - therefore aiding the preservation.

[brahmburgers]

what the white stuff around his lower body? It that ice - or salt? ...both are preservatives of sorts.

[chownah]

I'm not sure but it tastes like sugar.

[meadish_sweetball]

if you have a photo, I for one would like to see it.

Try "add reply" and somewhere on the page there is an "attachment system" where you select the file from your computer and upload it to your post. try that.

I tried it, doesn't work. Tried it with the upload tool.

I minimized the file to about 60 K, but it just takes forever without anything happening.

You may need to upgrade your browser. I had the same problem with the old version of Firefox.

[ColPyat]

You may need to upgrade your browser. I had the same problem with the old version of Firefox.

Thanks, seems to work now, here's the picture:

[Grover]

he looks surprisingly lifelike. incredible, even if it is a hoax.

[ColPyat]

he looks surprisingly lifelike. incredible, even if it is a hoax.

No hoax, i can assure you.

I was there when the coffin was sealed, and while it was opened a week later. The death of the monk is well documented as he was a very famous monk. There was not much odor and residue liquid, but enough to know that he was a dead human.

I have seen countless corpses in all stages of decomposition, from dying on my lap up to rather disgusting, and many mummies, both natural and embalmed, including more than ten naturally occurred Gumarn Thongs.

I have never though seen anything compared to this naturally mummified monk.

[cm das]

I mean no disrespect to any of these monks or their followers, but isn't it kind of ironic that in a religion that stresses impermanence you have auto-preserved bodies as a mark of high attainment? I would think if anything, it ought to be the opposite - when someone with a high level of awareness/insight dies, his or her body would devolve into its composite parts more rapidly than usual. Just a thought...

[ColPyat]

Just a thought...

You think too much.

There will be all sorts of learned explanations that support either position. I don't really care that much, it's like with amulets, some completely reject them, and others are absolutely fanatic, and the tolerant middle position looks at them the way that as long as it helps to inspire a certain ethical make up along Buddhist lines it can be useful and should not be seen too serious.

[chownah]

I mean no disrespect to any of these monks or their followers, but isn't it kind of ironic that in a religion that stresses impermanence you have auto-preserved bodies as a mark of high attainment? I would think if anything, it ought to be the opposite - when someone with a high level of awareness/insight dies, his or her body would devolve into its composite parts more rapidly than usual. Just a thought...

The Buddha taught about impermanence and he did not teach anything about any meaning for a body that does not decompose...at least that I have ever heard of. If someone has a Scriptural reference that talks about the body not decomposing I would like to know about it.

There are alot of 'popular' Buddhist practices which have nothing to do with the Buddha's teachings...lucky numbers, tatoos, spells, etc. etc. etc.

Chownah

[cm das]

You think too much.

That's what my ex-girlfriend says!

Seriously, I'm not arguing for the "correctness" of natural mummification or rapid decomposition. I only meant to point out some irony. I'm willing to accept the common tradition that advanced meditation can yield super-normal abilities. And I accept that some Buddhist teachers may use these abilities effectively as a kind of skillful means (there's precedence for this in the story of Angulimala). And I don't really think any paradox involving impermanence & natural mummification is a big problem. In my view anyone who delves deeply into religion can't be too afraid of paradox. On the other hand, I think the teachings as they are found in the Pali literature are fairly clear that super-normal abilities are to be viewed more as a trap (source of attachment/ego reinforcement) on the path than as a worthy goal for a practicioner.

The Buddha taught about impermanence and he did not teach anything about any meaning for a body that does not decompose...at least that I have ever heard of. If someone has a Scriptural reference that talks about the body not decomposing I would like to know about it.

I don't know of teachings specifically about the body but in a general sense when asked what happens to a Tathagatha after he dies the Buddha avoided a definitive answer, in the standard fourfold-form (tetralemma): something like "I don't say he exists, I don't say he doesn't exist, I don't say he both exists and doesn't exist, I don't say he neither exists nor doesn't exist." I'm citing this from memory - if you want to know what sutta I can look it up. Sure it's usually interpreted as having a more spiritual/karmic reference, but I think the main point can apply to the body as well - don't worry about it; this kind of thinking won't help you end suffering.

Edited March 2, 2007 by cm das

[Tony Clifton]

Just a thought.

Could it be that since cedar was used for the Russian monk's coffin, it may have somehow created perfect conditions for the body to remain intact? In older days they used to keep clothing and linen in cedar chests to prevent mold and damage from moths and other insects. I still have my grandmother's cedar chest in storage , must be a hundred years old by now and it still smells strongly as if it was recently cut.