Need clarification on role of late 2018 income affidavit

[davhend25]

Hello all,

 

I'll apologize up front as I know this subject of new extension requirements has been hashed and re-hashed too many times to count.

 

I think it's reasonably clear now what the new 2019/2020 requirement are, but what do we know, at this point, is the situation with folks, like myself, who made the special trip to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok in late December 2018 (Dec. 21st) to get one last income affidavit?

 

My current retirement extension expires on June 8th, which means I can apply for my next extension as early as May 8th.  This would put the age of my affidavit under 5 months, and within the 6 month window that is supposed to be honored by Thai immigration.  

 

My understanding is that if the income affidavit is accepted by my local immigration office, then the old rules would still apply, that is, I would not need to show international transfers into a Thai bank account. I would be able to just show immigration my pension and social security funding docs like I have done in the past. I also show them my U.S. bank statements clearly showing these funds being deposited into my account at the first of every month all year long.

 

This would give me another whole year to arrange compliance with the new rules involving Thai banks and foreign transfers (Ugh).

 

Are the late 2018 income affidavits still in play as an option, or has that since been deemed unacceptable to immigration?  Does anyone know or have had first hand experience using one these affidavits so far this year?

 

There was a lot of discussion about this back in December, but not too much since, that I have been able to see.

 

Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

 

 

 

[elviajero]

The income letter should be accepted as long as it’s less than 6 months old for this years extension.

 

But if you want to extend based on income next year you will have to start making monthly transfers from this year so you have a years history of transfers.

[JTXR]

I am in a very very similar situation.  My affidavit is from the U.S. embassy dated the very end of December 2018 and my extension expires toward the end of June.  The last time I did my 90-day report at Chaeng Wattana, my wife talked to the person she said was the "head" of the section doing retirement extensions and was told that the affidavit would still be accepted for 6 months (i.e., until the end of June). 

I can't say what other TI offices will do, but I'm confident my affidavit will be valid when I apply for the extension at CW in the first part of June. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by JTXR

[ubonjoe]

According to the rules and what immigration has stated it should still be accepted.

But I am aware of Phuket immigration not accepting one from the UK embassy for an extension based upon mariage. They said they are no longer accepted because they consider them as not being valid.

[pontious]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

According to the rules and what immigration has stated it should still be accepted.

But if they do not what do you suggest Joe.?

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, pontious said:

But if they do not what do you suggest Joe.?

Call 1178 and make a complaint.

[davhend25]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

According to the rules and what immigration has stated it should still be accepted.

But I am aware of Phuket immigration not accepting one from the UK embassy for an extension based upon mariage. They said they are no longer accepted because they consider them as not being valid.

Does anyone know if a complaint was lodged or if the affidavit was less than 6 months old? 

[davhend25]

1 hour ago, JTXR said:

I am in a very very similar situation.  My affidavit is from the U.S. embassy dated the very end of December 2018 and my extension expires toward the end of June.  The last time I did my 90-day report at Chaeng Wattana, my wife talked to the person she said was the "head" of the section doing retirement extensions and was told that the affidavit would still be accepted for 6 months (i.e., until the end of June). 

I can't say what other TI offices will do, but I'm confident my affidavit will be valid when I apply for the extension at CW in the first part of June. 

Would I be safer to apply for my extension at CW, where the rules seem to be applied more correctly and consistently.  Also, as I am currently residing in the eastern provinces, would it be kosher for me to apply for my retirement extension at CW? Or can I apply anywhere?  

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, davhend25 said:

Would I be safer to apply for my extension at CW, where the rules seem to be applied more correctly and consistently.  Also, as I am currently residing in the eastern provinces, would it be kosher for me to apply for my retirement extension at CW? Or can I apply anywhere?  

You can’t apply anywhere. You must apply at the office covering the area you live In.

[davhend25]

6 minutes ago, elviajero said:

You can’t apply anywhere. You must apply at the office covering the area you live In.

Thought so...just wasn't sure.

 

Thanks!

 

[jmd8800]

I used my income affidavit from Chiang Mai Consulate in early February. Chiang Mai immigration required documentation of the amount I claimed on the IA. I gave them copies of the Social Security letter for 2019 income and letters of monthly income from 2 private pensions. The IO took the amount I stated and did a currency exchange to see if the amount was enough. Then he asked if I knew that next year would be different to be sure I knew.

 

I hear some, but not all, offices require backup documentation to support your claim. Best to check with your office.

[davhend25]

1 hour ago, jmd8800 said:

I used my income affidavit from Chiang Mai Consulate in early February. Chiang Mai immigration required documentation of the amount I claimed on the IA. I gave them copies of the Social Security letter for 2019 income and letters of monthly income from 2 private pensions. The IO took the amount I stated and did a currency exchange to see if the amount was enough. Then he asked if I knew that next year would be different to be sure I knew.

 

I hear some, but not all, offices require backup documentation to support your claim. Best to check with your office.

That's good news to be sure...I used the same back-up documentation as you when I did my first extension last year. That will not be a problem. I will also take my U.S. bank statements showing the direct deposits which will add up to the amount shown on the embassy affidavit.

 

Thanks for your kind reply.

 

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, elviajero said:

The income letter should be accepted as long as it’s less than 6 months old for this years extension.

 

The OP doesn't mention which office he will be making his application at. There seems to be some issue with Embassy letters being refused in Phuket now.

[indepth]

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

You can’t apply anywhere. You must apply at the office covering the area you live In.

You can. Move to any area you want, tell TI that is now your place of residence. Then when you got the visa, move back. 

[merijn]

25 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

The OP doesn't mention which office he will be making his application at. There seems to be some issue with Embassy letters being refused in Phuket now.

It would be good indeed if he tells us which immigration office he is using.

At Phuket there is currently only one report of the affidavit being refused and it is not clear which kind of income he was using (Pension or some other income)

 

[sumrit]

12 hours ago, elviajero said:

The income letter should be accepted as long as it’s less than 6 months old for this years extension.

They are certainly accepting income letters in Chonburi, both at Jomtien and Si Racha.

 

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

You can’t apply anywhere. You must apply at the office covering the area you live In.

This appears to be more strictly enforced in Chonburi now, where they have two offices.

 

Although I live closer to Si Racha I have always done my annual extensions at Jomtien and its never been queried.

 

However, when I went yesterday, the IO checked all my paperwork was in order before looking at my address. When she realized I lived closer to Si Racha than Jomtien she handed everything back and said I must go to Si Racha. I pointed out that I'd always gone to Jomtien and had been going for years but she just said 'new rules you must go to Si Racha now'. All went smoothly at Si Racha. No queues, staff were pleasant. Two 'new' forms I'd never seen before to sign and all competed in twenty minutes. Plus, my passport, with the new extension, was given back to me straight away, I always had to go back the next day for it in Jomtien.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, sumrit said:

Although I live closer to Si Racha I have always done my annual extensions at Jomtien and its never been queried.

Any idea where that imaginary line is drawn?

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Any idea where that imaginary line is drawn?

The district line between Banglamung and Si Racha.

Pattaya immigration is officially only for Pattaya, Banglamung and Sattahip districts.

 

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The district line between Banglamung and Si Racha.

Pattaya immigration is officially only for Pattaya, Banglamung and Sattahip districts.

 

And yet it goes by the name of Chonburi Immigration.

[kingstonkid]

Okay maybe this is either the military or the Canadian in me but there seems to be a very easy solution to this and a lot of the what happens in XXXXX  immigration office.

 

GO TO THE F@#$%^& OFFICE AND ASK THEM.

 

Itr is and has been for as long as I can remember knowing that each office has different ways of looking at different things.  OP you are doing this in May you either have a 90 day coming up or you had a 90 day that would be the time to go over things with them.

 

People here including Joe can only tell you what they know and what happens at there immigration location.  They can not tell you what happens at your office unless they have dealt with it.

 

Hence even though I used a legal service for my initial retirement extension they could only give me the advice as to what I needed and could not help me because they did not deal with Pathum Thani and were in BKK.

 

Sorry for the rant but all these well my immigration is different tor I have this issue can people here help me is wearing thin on this old guy.

 

People instead of going to the restaurant that serves you a beer in the morning go to immigration sit down and ask them what to do. 

Show them the papers that you have.

Ask them if there is anything else that you need?  Then get the papers they tell you.

 

I can guarantee that if you go to immigration and they tell you that you need X at their location and you argue well Thaivisa or UBONJOE said they were crazy and it was not needed it is not going to help your case.

 

This for those that were never taught it is called PERSONAL INITIATIVE.  More people should try it.

[bkk6060]

Why don´t you go to your immigration office and ask them?

[sumrit]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

Any idea where that imaginary line is drawn?

I asked but didn't get a proper answer. She just said, from Chonburi, as I had to drive past Si Racha to get to Jomtien so I must go there.

[sumrit]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The district line between Banglamung and Si Racha.

Pattaya immigration is officially only for Pattaya, Banglamung and Sattahip districts.

 

And yet, some fifteen years ago I went to Si Racha immigration to ask about an extension and was told I couldn't do it there, I must go to Jomtien. Been going there ever since without a problem until yesterday. From friends I did know they could do their extensions from Si Racha though but couldn't see the point in changing.

[jacko45k]

10 minutes ago, sumrit said:

I asked but didn't get a proper answer. She just said, from Chonburi, as I had to drive past Si Racha to get to Jomtien so I must go there.

End of Banglamung, Harbor Mall! I am still Pattaya!

Edited February 19, 2019 by jacko45k

[davhend25]

1 hour ago, kingstonkid said:

Okay maybe this is either the military or the Canadian in me but there seems to be a very easy solution to this and a lot of the what happens in XXXXX  immigration office.

 

GO TO THE F@#$%^& OFFICE AND ASK THEM.

 

Itr is and has been for as long as I can remember knowing that each office has different ways of looking at different things.  OP you are doing this in May you either have a 90 day coming up or you had a 90 day that would be the time to go over things with them.

 

People here including Joe can only tell you what they know and what happens at there immigration location.  They can not tell you what happens at your office unless they have dealt with it.

 

Hence even though I used a legal service for my initial retirement extension they could only give me the advice as to what I needed and could not help me because they did not deal with Pathum Thani and were in BKK.

 

Sorry for the rant but all these well my immigration is different tor I have this issue can people here help me is wearing thin on this old guy.

 

People instead of going to the restaurant that serves you a beer in the morning go to immigration sit down and ask them what to do. 

Show them the papers that you have.

Ask them if there is anything else that you need?  Then get the papers they tell you.

 

I can guarantee that if you go to immigration and they tell you that you need X at their location and you argue well Thaivisa or UBONJOE said they were crazy and it was not needed it is not going to help your case.

 

This for those that were never taught it is called PERSONAL INITIATIVE.  More people should try it.

 

Yes, I had a 90 day report the last week in January.

 

Following my regular check in with the "90 day" clerk, I went to the other side of the office, where the more serious procedures are dealt with, to ask about the validity of U.S. Embassy affidavits obtained in late 2018.  No one there spoke or understood enough English to know what I was asking.

 

The immigration officer, who appeared to be in charge, kept trying to tell me that the extension would be for 1 year not 6 months. He clearly had no idea what I was asking. He finally admitted that he spoke little English and enlisted the aid of a person, who was waiting for service, to be an interpreter.  This person seemed to understand English, but clearly didn't understand what I was trying to ask the IO.

 

After about 10 minutes of meaningless back and forth, I thanked both of these people and left. Thinking I would try again at my next report in April.

 

They do have one IO in that Chanthaburi office who speaks workable English, but he wasn't there that day. Perhaps he'll be there in April. I don't own a vehicle and there is no bus or taxi service from where I live to this office, so I can't easily go there, with any frequency, hoping someone will understand what I am asking.

 

I fully agree with you that my local IO will not give a hoot about what "ubonjoe" or anyone else on this forum thinks. They will do as they see fit. I would have been much happier to have gotten my answers about this from the Chanthaburi IO.

 

I also agree that I should have had all my paperwork, including my actual embassy affidavit with me to show them. In retrospect, this might have helped. But I think the language issue was the larger problem.

 

[Jim7777]

21 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

According to the rules and what immigration has stated it should still be accepted.

But I am aware of Phuket immigration not accepting one from the UK embassy for an extension based upon mariage. They said they are no longer accepted because they consider them as not being valid.

In his case I would keep the old income affidavit from December 21st 2018 because they’re technically still supposed to accept it up to six months after the date of completion and he is within the six month grace period although he’s pushing it to the last minute in his situation.  And I have read things like that about Phuket Immigration as well.  

 

So if I were him I’d do both have the old income affidavit from December 2018 ready because theoretically they should still accept it even though he’s barely within the six month period, and also begin preparing for the new rules.  In other words begin making the monthly wire transfers into a Thai bank account of at least 65K Baht per month because I believe he said that he’s on a retirement visa extension if I’m not mistaken.  Regardless it’s always better to transfer more than the minimum monthly income requirement, that is always best if possible depending on his financial situation obviously.  OR, depending on his financial situation deposit the 800K Baht into a Thai bank account.  Basically either start making the monthly wire transfers into a Thai bank account of at least 65K Baht a month or deposit the 800K Baht into a Thai bank account.  

 

If he’s going by the monthly wire transfers into a Thai bank account (the monthly income option) than I believe according to the police orders for this first year he shouldn’t have to show a full 12 months of monthly wire transfers.  I believe I remember reading that in the police order when it came out for people in his situation but I might be mistaken because I don’t recall that part exactly I’d have to go back and read it and then post a copy of it for him which I can do if he needs help.  But I’m pretty sure I remember reading in the new police orders that people didn’t have to show a full 12 months of monthly wire transfers for the first year since it just went into effect this year.  Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about that part and I understand that Phuket Immigration might not be on the same page as every other Immigration office in Thailand I’ve heard as well that they sometimes are not.  

 

In my situation I don’t have to do my next extension until literally January or NLT February of 2020, so they accepted my last income affidavit for the final time when I did my last extension early in December 2018, although that was at a different Immigration office though.  So in my situation I will have to show my Immigration office a full 12 months of monthly wire transfers into my Thai bank account in around January or February of 2020 when my next extension is due.  I’m on a marriage visa extension though and I’m in a totally different area of Thailand then the OP so I’m not sure how much different my area is compared to his.  

 

I hope this advice helps the OP.  Basically in his situation I’d want to be prepared for both scenarios.  

Edited February 19, 2019 by Jim7777

[davhend25]

9 minutes ago, Jim7777 said:

In his case I would keep the old income affidavit from December 21st 2018 because they’re technically still supposed to accept it up to six months after the date of completion and he is within the six month grace period although he’s pushing it to the last minute in his situation.  And I have read things like that about Phuket Immigration as well.  

 

So if I were him I’d do both have the old income affidavit from December 2018 ready because theoretically they should still accept it even though he’s barely within the six month period, and also begin preparing for the new rules.  In other words begin making the monthly wire transfers into a Thai bank account of at least 65K per month because I believe he said that he’s on a retirement visa extension if I’m not mistaken.  Regardless it’s always better to transfer more than the minimum monthly income requirement, that is always best if possible depending on his financial situation obviously.  OR, depending on his financial situation deposit the 800K into a Thai bank account.  Basically either start making the monthly wire transfers into a Thai bank account of at least 65K Baht a month or deposit the 800K Baht into a Thai bank account.  

 

If he’s going by the monthly wire transfers into a Thai bank account (the monthly income option) than I believe according to the police orders for this first year he shouldn’t have to show a full 12 months of monthly wire transfers.  I believe I remember reading that in the police order when it came out for people in his situation but I might be mistaken because I don’t recall that part exactly I’d have to go back and read it and then post a copy of it for him which I can do if he needs help.  But I’m pretty sure I remember reading in the new police orders that people didn’t have to show a full 12 months of monthly wire transfers for the first year since it just went into effect this year.  Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong about that part and I understand that Phuket Immigration might not be on the same page as every other Immigration office in Thailand I’ve heard as well that they sometimes are not.  

 

In my situation I don’t have to do my next extension until literally January or NLT February of 2020, so they accepted my last income affidavit for the final time when I did my last extension early in December 2018, although that was at a different Immigration office though.  So in my situation I will have to show my Immigration office a full 12 months of monthly wire transfers into my Thai bank account in around January or February of 2020 when my next extension is due.  I’m on a marriage visa extension though and I’m in a totally different area of Thailand then the OP so I’m not sure how much different my area is compared to his.  

 

I hope this advice helps the OP.  Basically in his situation I’d want to be prepared for both scenarios.  

Thank you for this well thought out and kind response to my situation. It appears to be excellent advice and is appreciated.  DH        

[sumrit]

49 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

End of Banglamung, Harbor Mall! I am still Pattaya!

Well, if yesterday was anything to go by, the queue at Jomtien stretched out to the street while, when I got to Si Racha, I was the queue and was seen immediately.????

[jacko45k]

14 minutes ago, sumrit said:

Well, if yesterday was anything to go by, the queue at Jomtien stretched out to the street while, when I got to Si Racha, I was the queue and was seen immediately.????

After a weekend and of course closed today. Damn, I need to go there soon, That damned queue to get a ticket is an insult!

[DJ54]

23 hours ago, davhend25 said:

Are the late 2018 income affidavits still in play as an option, or has that since been deemed unacceptable to immigration?  Does any

Last month I asked the US Embassy looks good to go... I got the affidavit late Dec. see attached for reply