Britain's Labour Party splits over Brexit and anti-Semitism

[Jack100]

Is it just a coincidence that Corbyn and Chavez both begin with " c ' and have 6 letters ?

[SheungWan]

16 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

My oh my.

In response to Grouse’s question I provide a factual account of the roots of anti-semitism amongst the extreme left (and extreme right).

I provide examples of how those anti-Semitic roots cast shadows in discussions here on TVF.

You go off on a rant.

....

Hatton is on the extreme left, he’s an anti-Semite.

That does not shock me in the least.

He has however been immediately expelled for his Anti-Semitism.

I absolutely agree with his expulsion.

Take your rant and direct it at someone else.

I was responding to your comment about members of the Labour Party you know not being a part of the degeneration. I have no reason to doubt that. However, the Labour Party split now allows those of us who know both Labour Party members and members of the Hard Left (which I certainly do) where they stand as if I don't know in too many cases. Unfortunately for me, I know an ex-girlfriend who went all-in on the Hard Left (she probably thinks of herself as some latter-day Rosa Luxemburg). Gave up a long time ago trying to influence her. Hopeless task. Living in their own cult world. Another couple I know left the Hard Left for some peace and quiet in the LP. That hasn't worked out too well either.

Edited February 21, 2019 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

6 minutes ago, Jack100 said:

Is it just a coincidence that Corbyn and Chavez both begin with " c ' and have 6 letters ?

Not if that information was generated on your ouija board.

[nontabury]

19 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Covering up and deflecting open anti-Semitism inside the Labour Party by Corbyn crowd attracting the support of the usual suspects around here.

You can possible help me here S.W. As I’ve not been following the problems in the Labour Party. This open anti-Semitism, is it because Corbyn and his friends, are denying the holocaust, and how the Germans  carried out other despicable acts against the Jews, or is it because Corbyn does not accept Isreals actions against the Palestinians.

 I emphasize, this question, is not to trick you up, I just want to know what’s happening.

[sanemax]

18 minutes ago, nontabury said:

You can possible help me here S.W. As I’ve not been following the problems in the Labour Party. This open anti-Semitism, is it because Corbyn and his friends, are denying the holocaust, and how the Germans  carried out other despicable acts against the Jews, or is it because Corbyn does not accept Isreals actions against the Palestinians.

 I emphasize, this question, is not to trick you up, I just want to know what’s happening.

Its better to read about what is happening and then comment about it on here , rather than to ask on here about whats happening 

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, nontabury said:

You can possible help me here S.W. As I’ve not been following the problems in the Labour Party. This open anti-Semitism, is it because Corbyn and his friends, are denying the holocaust, and how the Germans  carried out other despicable acts against the Jews, or is it because Corbyn does not accept Isreals actions against the Palestinians.

 I emphasize, this question, is not to trick you up, I just want to know what’s happening.

There are no complaints that Corbyn or the Momentum Organisation which supports him are themselves denying the Holocaust. The complaints are that Corbyn et al have been found either supporting or dragging their heels re Corbyn supporters who have been found openly expressing anti-Semitic comments inside the Labour Party and that has included HD. Corbyn supporters on this forum like to take pains that they they oppose Zionism as opposed to being anti-Semitic, but the trouble is that they too try to kick into the long grass all anti-Semitic incidents inside the Labour Party... which has come from those who don't take enough care or actually don't care there is a difference or are actually right-wingers coming along for the ride. For them its all the same thing. So is there a connection with Corbyn's prior support for terrorist organisations some of whom have taken on board old neo-Nazi propaganda for their own use? Of course. What will happen now? Corbyn will continue to attempt to bury the issue under platitudes and limited disciplinary actions (as he has done so far) under anti-Tory campaigning. Maybe he will succeed, but for the moment the Labour MPs split has brought the issue more out into the open. Their complaint was that Corbyn had shown no intention in practice to want to clean out the stables. PS. Watch out for those who rather than discussing the issues raised by the split, reserve all their venom for those MPs and demand that they resign etc. They are part of the problem both inside the Labour Party and support outside for the ugliness. And one of the old Hard Left tactics under pressure is to just blank out problems and wait them out. Denial is the way to go.

Edited February 21, 2019 by SheungWan

[Prissana Pescud]

On 2/21/2019 at 2:19 PM, vogie said:

So are you saying that brexit is to blame for the unrest in Israel/Palestine, I wondered when the blame train would arrive at the brexit station for that one.

No. What a laugh some of you guys are. The post said that Labour members had called out

Corbyn as being anti Semitic because he had expressed some sympathy to the Palestinians for their plight.

Read the post topic. comprende

My posts have shown basic history 1a as to reasons why there is no peace in Palestine,

nor ever will be until a redress of wrongs is undertaken.

And why expressing some sympathy for Palestinian injustice is not anti Semitic. Just historical fact. comprende  

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Prissana Pescud said:

No. What a laugh some of you guys are. The post said that Labour members had called out

Corbyn as being anti Semitic because he had expressed some sympathy to the Palestinians for their plight.

Read the post topic. comprende

My posts have shown basic history 1a as to reasons why there is no peace in Palestine,

nor ever will be until a redress of wrongs is undertaken.

And why expressing some sympathy for Palestinian injustice is not anti Semitic. Just historical fact. comprende  

I do not reply to patronising posts, "comprende!

[VocalNeal]

^ Confused? Apparently by definition you do!

[Prissana Pescud]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

I do not reply to patronising posts, "comprende!

You just did. comprende

[vogie]

Labour MP Ian Austin is the latest to leave Corbyns anti semitic party, he said he has no intention of joining the independants.

[Prissana Pescud]

11 hours ago, SheungWan said:

There are no complaints that Corbyn or the Momentum Organisation which supports him are themselves denying the Holocaust. The complaints are that Corbyn et al have been found either supporting or dragging their heels re Corbyn supporters who have been found openly expressing anti-Semitic comments inside the Labour Party and that has included HD. Corbyn supporters on this forum like to take pains that they they oppose Zionism as opposed to being anti-Semitic, but the trouble is that they too try to kick into the long grass all anti-Semitic incidents inside the Labour Party... which has come from those who don't take enough care or actually don't care there is a difference or are actually right-wingers coming along for the ride. For them its all the same thing. So is there a connection with Corbyn's prior support for terrorist organisations some of whom have taken on board old neo-Nazi propaganda for their own use? Of course. What will happen now? Corbyn will continue to attempt to bury the issue under platitudes and limited disciplinary actions (as he has done so far) under anti-Tory campaigning. Maybe he will succeed, but for the moment the Labour MPs split has brought the issue more out into the open. Their complaint was that Corbyn had shown no intention in practice to want to clean out the stables. PS. Watch out for those who rather than discussing the issues raised by the split, reserve all their venom for those MPs and demand that they resign etc. They are part of the problem both inside the Labour Party and support outside for the ugliness. And one of the old Hard Left tactics under pressure is to just blank out problems and wait them out. Denial is the way to go.

Just to clear the air a little.

Exactly what comments has Corbyn said that are "openly expressing anti-semitic.? 

 I see you haranguing but you offer no evidence that support you claim.

He has expressed sympathy for the Palestinian plight but surely that is not anti-semitic.

 I dislike some angry dogs but this does not make me an anti dog lover.

[Prissana Pescud]

On 2/21/2019 at 2:37 PM, melvinmelvin said:

don't understand this use of the term semitic

that term includes both Arabs and Jews

as well as the Hebrew Arab languages

 

The Israeli PM and the Labour exiters of the party use the term Semitic exclusively 

in reference to the Jewish State. Palestinians do not use the term Semitic.

They are and always have been called Palestinian. So that is what they call themselves.

Except in the bibical fables where they are called Phillistines by the King James version.

And Sumerians are called Samaritans and so on. 

[roobaa01]

corbyn is a proven antisemite and communist who tries to run labour like the kpd under stalin, hence moderate labour mps leaving. but it looks like a new uk party shapes up in parliament for 3 torrys left also. they grouping up with the 7 labour rebels.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[sanemax]

10 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Just to clear the air a little.

Exactly what comments has Corbyn said that are "openly expressing anti-semitic.? 

 I see you haranguing but you offer no evidence that support you claim.

He has expressed sympathy for the Palestinian plight but surely that is not anti-semitic.

 I dislike some angry dogs but this does not make me an anti dog lover.

When has anyone accused him of anti antisemitism , just for expressing sympathy for the Palestinians plight ?

  Also, why is he sympathetic to the Palestinian cause ?

Does he also have sympathy for the Tibetans , Rohingya , and various other group of people in similar situations to Palestians , or does Corbyn have extra sympathy for Palestinians , because Jews are on the other side of the conflict ?

[Prissana Pescud]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

When has anyone accused him of anti antisemitism , just for expressing sympathy for the Palestinians plight ?

  Also, why is he sympathetic to the Palestinian cause ?

Does he also have sympathy for the Tibetans , Rohingya , and various other group of people in similar situations to Palestians , or does Corbyn have extra sympathy for Palestinians , because Jews are on the other side of the conflict ?

Read the last post by SheungWan.

As for Corbyns sympathies for other oppressed peoples, you would have to ask him.

I am only responding to the post topic and some posters comments and responses.

I suspect Corbyn now wishes he had kept his personal views to himself and not laid it out as some sort of informal policy.

I suspect that he had some sympathy toward the Jews.

But far from being a former repressed peoples, the Jews seem to be doing a lot of repressing of their own now.

Illegal land grabs just for starters.

[melvinmelvin]

15 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

The Israeli PM and the Labour exiters of the party use the term Semitic exclusively 

in reference to the Jewish State. Palestinians do not use the term Semitic.

They are and always have been called Palestinian. So that is what they call themselves.

Except in the bibical fables where they are called Phillistines by the King James version.

And Sumerians are called Samaritans and so on. 

 

fair enough,

I have spent some hours looking into "semitic" in British

and in Scandinavian lexical sources - all fairly modern

 

I can not see any indication that the term does not cover both Arab and Hebrew.

 

Of course, Palestinians are called Palestinians and Egyptians are called Egyptians and

Syrians are called Syrians - but that does not prevent them from being Semitic and speaking

Semitic languages.

 

that aside

 

I have yet to see any antisemitism expressed by Labour

 

[Prissana Pescud]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

fair enough,

I have spent some hours looking into "semitic" in British

and in Scandinavian lexical sources - all fairly modern

 

I can not see any indication that the term does not cover both Arab and Hebrew.

 

Of course, Palestinians are called Palestinians and Egyptians are called Egyptians and

Syrians are called Syrians - but that does not prevent them from being Semitic and speaking

Semitic languages.

 

that aside

 

I have yet to see any antisemitism expressed by Labour

 

If Labour has not expressed anti semitic terms, why did 7 Labour politicians leave

the Labour Party quoting anti semitic reasons? (and the handling of Brexit which I doubt is anti semitic. But you never know.)

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, roobaa01 said:

corbyn is a proven antisemite and communist who tries to run labour like the kpd under stalin, hence moderate labour mps leaving. but it looks like a new uk party shapes up in parliament for 3 torrys left also. they grouping up with the 7 labour rebels.

wbr

roobaa01

I don't think Corbyn is under attack for being anti-Semitic himself, rather for supporting and standing alongside those who have been. As for the KPD, this was the Communist Party in Germany during the Weimar Republic. One can discuss Stalin's influence over CPs in other countries in that period, but it is the Russian Party where he exercised direct dictatorial control. Corbyn comes from the Trotskyist tradition (please stay awake back there!) so the accusation of JC being a Stalinist doesn't get you a direct hit, but his right-hand man Milne certainly does come from a Tankie background. Confused? You should be.

[Prissana Pescud]

Exactly which labour party politicians have said anything that is anti Jewish. Just one quote will do.

A lot of name calling on this post, but not one racist quote. Just semantics (not Semitics) and innuendo.

How about some facts.

[dick dasterdly]

5 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Exactly which labour party politicians have said anything that is anti Jewish. Just one quote will do.

A lot of name calling on this post, but not one racist quote. Just semantics (not Semitics) and innuendo.

How about some facts.

I'm wondering about this too.  But as I haven't been following uk politics closely, had just assumed that a number of labour party politicians had made it clear they were anti-jewish.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

fair enough,

I have spent some hours looking into "semitic" in British

and in Scandinavian lexical sources - all fairly modern

 

I can not see any indication that the term does not cover both Arab and Hebrew.

 

Of course, Palestinians are called Palestinians and Egyptians are called Egyptians and

Syrians are called Syrians - but that does not prevent them from being Semitic and speaking

Semitic languages.

 

that aside

 

I have yet to see any antisemitism expressed by Labour

 

IMHO if you want to find something then you will find it no matter how insignificant it would seem to ordinary people.

 

As an example there was the unconditional surrender statue 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47287048 that was vandalised with the hash tag #metoo

 

"Greta Zimmer Friedman said it wasn't her choice to be kissed and that Mr Mendonsa "grabbed" her.

However, she made it clear the kiss was a "jubilant act" and "it was just an event of 'thank god the war is over.'"

After Ms Zimmer's death in 2016, her son told the New York Times his mother did not view the kiss negatively."

 

However there are some very stupid people who have no idea of the emotions at the time that (sadly) truly believe that only they have the knowledge and the right to alter history and condemn something that happened 74 years ago

[dick dasterdly]

Having said this, Corbyn regularly says and acts in a way that can only antagonise brits?

 

The latest example being his comment that went something along the lines of 'Begum should be allowed to come back to the uk, and then (possibly) be allowed to walk free'.

 

I'm paraphrasing badly here (as I can't be bothered to look it up....) - but it was along those lines.

[Dumbastheycome]

36 minutes ago, Prissana Pescud said:

Exactly which labour party politicians have said anything that is anti Jewish. Just one quote will do.

A lot of name calling on this post, but not one racist quote. Just semantics (not Semitics) and innuendo.

How about some facts.

It is  not  required. The red  flag has been waved. 

[Dumbastheycome]

So the  cluster  F has  spawned ! A Govt. in disarray, a  politically undesired  political  agenda based  on no genuine  mandate causing  economic  upheavals, an opposition  political  club clubbing itself in the  head.

I wonder if  er Majesty will apply  for a retirement  visa  in Thailand ?????

Da Duke would  fit right in with  his  driving skills !

[Timbob]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Having said this, Corbyn regularly says and acts in a way that can only antagonise brits?

 

The latest example being his comment that went something along the lines of 'Begum should be allowed to come back to the uk, and then (possibly) be allowed to walk free'.

 

I'm paraphrasing badly here (as I can't be bothered to look it up....) - but it was along those lines.

Corbyn probably loses some votes by saying this, but what he says is true. I'd rather he be honest, rather than play to the gallery like the home secretary. Nobody wants this person back in the UK, but it's our problem to deal with. She was born and raised in the UK, brainwashed in the UK (including no doubt from her family - religion poisons everything!). Why should another country have to take her in? Imagine the opposite... the UK being forced to accept a terrorist born and raised overseas. There would be uproar and rightly so. 

[Prissana Pescud]

1 hour ago, Dumbastheycome said:

It is  not  required. The red  flag has been waved. 

Don't fluster. State one anti Jewish comment by any Labour Party member, indeed by any conservative party member.

If you cannot, you too are guilty of fluster and bluster.

The only red flags here are you and your ilk.

State one anti Jew statement by any of the mainstream British political parties.

I do not talk about uneducated idiots in neo nazi or ultra right wing extremist and racist excuses of movements.

I talk about the balanced view of the educated majority,

Which has been denigrated on this forum by many with no factual evidence to explain themselves.

Don't keep bleating that we are all anti Jew. Show some facts.

Considering that the persecution of Jews was a reason so many of my family died in the war to defeat Nazism,

I find so many posts here quite offensive and possibly puerile. Not one poster on this forum that considers

mainstream British to be racist has offered not one quote to support your claims.

I suggest that your posts are racist in a backward flip on logic. You want to be offended.   

[Prissana Pescud]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm wondering about this too.  But as I haven't been following uk politics closely, had just assumed that a number of labour party politicians had made it clear they were anti-jewish.

Mate, it seems that this is not so.

Not one poster and I can name them has offered any evidence that mainstream politics is racist.

But they keep saying it is a foregone conclusion without one shred of evidence.

When I grew up in Australia, a long time ago, we were accused of having a cultural cringe.

It was a known taken.

Then Australia grew up. (well a bit . lol)

 The Israeli state still lives on the ww2 massacres in which 6 million Jews and a similar number of others were also murdered.

No one cares to talk about these others. (gays, crippled, political, religious, those helping hide Jews, communists, socialists and so on)

Israel still suffers a cultural cringe. Most people in the world were not born when the atrocities were committed.

Time for Israel to move on and create an inclusive society in their state.

And stop doing racist attacks and land grabbing from their neighbours. 

[Prissana Pescud]

56 minutes ago, Timbob said:

Corbyn probably loses some votes by saying this, but what he says is true. I'd rather he be honest, rather than play to the gallery like the home secretary. Nobody wants this person back in the UK, but it's our problem to deal with. She was born and raised in the UK, brainwashed in the UK (including no doubt from her family - religion poisons everything!). Why should another country have to take her in? Imagine the opposite... the UK being forced to accept a terrorist born and raised overseas. There would be uproar and rightly so. 

Totally off topic but I agree. She was born in UK, raised and educated in UK.

Time to bring her and the child back to UK, debrief, gain intelligence and then re educate her into the inclusive society that Britain is supposed to be.

She, personally committed no crime, other than being the forced wife of a Hollander total loser.

[Prissana Pescud]

14 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

It is  not  required. The red  flag has been waved. 

I gave you a bit of an unwarranted lecture.

The misunderstanding is entirely my fault and I am sincerely sorry.

My lecture still stands in my mind, but it is no longer directed at your comment.

C