Buddha's Finger Bone Arrives In Hong Kong

[george]

Buddha's finger bone arrives in Hong Kong

HONG KONG: -- The Buddha's sarira, or finger bone, together with 20 other national treasures, arrived in Hong Kong from Shaanxi Province yesterday afternoon, just in time for the Buddha's birthday celebrations beginning today.

On loan from Xi'an Famen Buddhist Temple and held in a bulletproof glass box, the holy relic will be shown for 10 days in Hong Kong, a largely Buddhist city.

Saffron-robed monks escorted the finger off an airplane.

It was then transferred onto a truck decorated in gold paneling and lotus flowers as a band played welcoming music.

Senior monks prayed and sounded horns before the finger was driven to the Hong Kong Convention and Exhibition Center for a ceremony.

Patrick Ho, secretary for home affairs, went to the airport to receive the sarira.

There were thousands of devoted believers at the airport and the exhibition venue to welcome the holy relics of Buddha.

Hours before the oblatory ceremony, nearly a hundred believers gathered at the HKCE to wait for the arrival of the sarira.

Chan Kwok-sheung, 66, said she was excited that the sarira was in Hong Kong. "It's very lucky that Hong Kong can have the chance to receive the Buddha's sarira," Chan said.

The finger was among Buddhist relics discovered in an underground shelter at Famen Buddhist Temple near the ancient capital of Xi'an in northwestern China in 1987.

The relic is believed to bring peace and luck.

This is the third time the sarira has left Famen Buddhist Temple since it was found in 1987.

The oblation and sarira display was carried out in Thailand in 1994 and in China's Taiwan Province in 2002.

--AP 2004-05-26

[Darknight]

????

Didn't buddha say "don't worship any image of me ??"

This seems far out there, doesn't nobody realises this ?

[francois]

hi'

Didn't buddha say "don't worship any image of me ??"

yes Gautama said it it the main teaching ...

it looks like that many of the followers forgot it ...

big temple full of gold decorations and so on ...

just like any other major religion, it has to shine ...

the original message is forgotten, as many others

francois

[Darknight]

We seem to be a lot on the same wavelenght francois

I noticed it a litlle when i first met you, actually.

Greetings

Bart

[ghengis]

Bhudda images only started to appear after the Alexander the Great invaded India.

[kwiz117]

Bhudda images only started to appear after the Alexander the Great invaded India.

And started to disappear when British invaded India..

[The Ghost of Phoolan Devi]

There are so many "Buddha bones" around that Buddha must have been a 20 m tall giant.

For example, almost any temple in Sri Lanka claims to have some of Buddha's bones or ashes buried in their dagobas (stupas). Some ashes are kept in the Buddha figure at Wat Indraviharn in Bangkok, at these were donated by Srilankan monks.

The famous "Buddha tooth" in Kandy, Sri Lanka, is on all historical accounts a fake, but try telling that to the devout - religion and common sense don't always go hand in hand, to say the least.

Btw, "sarira" in that article (or rather "sharira", to spell it correctly) does not mean finger bone, but simply "body".

[kwiz117]

The famous "Buddha tooth" in Kandy, Sri Lanka, is on all historical accounts a fake, but try telling that to the devout - religion and common sense don't always go hand in hand, to say the least.

I am from Sri Lanka and yes, a Buddhist.

First, I challenge you to put down the basis for you to confidently claim that the "tooth relic of buddha" in Sri Lanka is a fake. Ok..explain your historical accounts..

From where you got this information to claim that the famous Buddha relic in Kandy Sri Lanka is a fake?

Know your facts before you talk..

So you must be knowing about the Sri Lankan and Buddhist history more than the Buddhist live in my country? It would have been much nicer if you can introduce yourself first so the readers will know your background. Atleast your country and the religion.

I am sure you are the "Ghost of Phoolan Devi" and infact she was a ........... (find out from internet more before you talk)

[The Ghost of Phoolan Devi]

The famous "Buddha tooth" in Kandy, Sri Lanka, is on all historical accounts a fake, but try telling that to the devout - religion and common sense don't always go hand in hand, to say the least.

I am from Sri Lanka and yes, a Buddhist.

First, I challenge you to put down the basis for you to confidently claim that the "tooth relic of buddha" in Sri Lanka is a fake. Ok..explain your historical accounts..

From where you got this information to claim that the famous Buddha relic in Kandy Sri Lanka is a fake?

Know your facts before you talk..

So you must be knowing about the Sri Lankan and Buddhist history more than the Buddhist live in my country? It would have been much nicer if you can introduce yourself first so the readers will know your background. Atleast your country and the religion.

I am sure you are the "Ghost of Phoolan Devi" and infact she was a ........... (find out from internet more before you talk)

Being Srilankan does not automatically make you an authority on Srilankan cultural history. This is quite obvious here.

According to Portuguese chronicles, in 1560 the tooth was "captured" by the Portuguese, who then brought it to Goa. The Arch Bishop of Goa had the tooth burnt in a public ceremony, so as to demonstrate the "victory over the heathens". The ashes of the tooth were strewn into the sea. The event was recorded in such detail by various Portuguese sources that there's hardly a doubt its veracity. Of course. Of course, the Srilankan Buddhist clergy would never admit to the fact, since the tooth in Kandy is the most potent symbol of the religion (in Sri Lanka). You could compare it with the Jade Buddha (Phra Kaew) in Bangkok.

Even before the original tooth was burnt, many copies of it existed. These were kept at various royal courts. Marco Polo related that in 1281 Kublai Khan asked the Ceylonese king for a copy of the tooth and in fact received two! One was an oversized molar. Along with it he sent a tuft of hair, supposedly of the Buddha.

Before you ignorantly slag off people here, I recommend you study some historical sources. You find many reprints of old books on this subject (and others) even in Colombo. Just try Lake House Bookshop (40 Hyde Park Corner, Colombo 2) and you might actually learn something.

I don't see how my nationality or religion come into this. There are many non-Srilankan scholars who know more about the country than the average Srilankan (this goes for all other countries too, of course). And being born into a Buddhist family don't make anyone an expert on Buddhism. My background? I research for a living ... that should be enough for you to know.

Ayubowan.

[kwiz117]

The famous "Buddha tooth" in Kandy, Sri Lanka, is on all historical accounts a fake, but try telling that to the devout - religion and common sense don't always go hand in hand, to say the least.

I am from Sri Lanka and yes, a Buddhist.

First, I challenge you to put down the basis for you to confidently claim that the "tooth relic of buddha" in Sri Lanka is a fake. Ok..explain your historical accounts..

From where you got this information to claim that the famous Buddha relic in Kandy Sri Lanka is a fake?

Know your facts before you talk..

So you must be knowing about the Sri Lankan and Buddhist history more than the Buddhist live in my country? It would have been much nicer if you can introduce yourself first so the readers will know your background. Atleast your country and the religion.

I am sure you are the "Ghost of Phoolan Devi" and infact she was a ........... (find out from internet more before you talk)

Being Srilankan does not automatically make you an authority on Srilankan cultural history. This is quite obvious here.

According to Portuguese chronicles, in 1560 the tooth was "captured" by the Portuguese, who then brought it to Goa. The Arch Bishop of Goa had the tooth burnt in a public ceremony, so as to demonstrate the "victory over the heathens". The ashes of the tooth were strewn into the sea. The event was recorded in such detail by various Portuguese sources that there's hardly a doubt its veracity. Of course. Of course, the Srilankan Buddhist clergy would never admit to the fact, since the tooth in Kandy is the most potent symbol of the religion (in Sri Lanka). You could compare it with the Jade Buddha (Phra Kaew) in Bangkok.

Even before the original tooth was burnt, many copies of it existed. These were kept at various royal courts. Marco Polo related that in 1281 Kublai Khan asked the Ceylonese king for a copy of the tooth and in fact received two! One was an oversized molar. Along with it he sent a tuft of hair, supposedly of the Buddha.

Before you ignorantly slag off people here, I recommend you study some historical sources. You find many reprints of old books on this subject (and others) even in Colombo. Just try Lake House Bookshop (40 Hyde Park Corner, Colombo 2) and you might actually learn something.

I don't see how my nationality or religion come into this. There are many non-Srilankan scholars who know more about the country than the average Srilankan (this goes for all other countries too, of course). And being born into a Buddhist family don't make anyone an expert on Buddhism. My background? I research for a living ... that should be enough for you to know.

Ayubowan.

Yes, I agree that by born to Sri Lankan parents is not the justification for a person to say that he knows Buddhism or about the Sri lankan history. But one thing, I will not just imagine and try to create history here. If I do not know, I will say I do not know. Anyway, I understand that you research for living as you have claimed in your above reply. Normally if you are a good researcher you are suppose to properly disclose the source from where you have collected the information.

But this is the first time I heard this Burring of Lord Buddha's relic. All this time I heard that they have burnt a Duplicate of it and later found out about it and even "BEHEADED" the people who did it.

Portuguese never captured all of Sri lanka. They

controlled only the outer ring specially the eastern area.

Now this part is from Mahawansa "The written history of Sri Lanka".

After the annexation of Jaffna, only the central highland Kingdom of Kandy--the last remnant of Buddhist Sinhalese power-- remained independent of Portuguese control. The kingdom acquired a new significance as custodian of Sinhalese nationalism. The Portuguese attempted the same strategy they had used successfully at Kotte and Jaffna and set up a puppet on the throne. They were able to put a queen on the Kandyan throne and even to have her baptized. But despite considerable Portuguese help, she was not able to retain power. The Portuguese spent the next half century trying in vain to expand their control over the Kingdom of Kandy. In one expedition in 1630, the Kandyans ambushed and massacred the whole Portuguese force, including the captain-general. The Kandyans fomented rebellion and consistently frustrated Portuguese attempts to expand into the interior.

The Portuguese who remained and ruled the maritime settlements of the island, took a step forward and gradually introduced their religion (Roman Catholicism) into the country by proselytising the Buddhists by reward or by sword. Prince Dharmapala, who became the king of Kotte, proved himself an utterly useless rules. In 1557, he embraced Catholicism and was baptised in the name of Don Juan Dharmapala,and it led to loss of loyalty of his supporters, because they feared that he might do harm to the Relic as the Portuguese were averse to venerating relics. One night, the Diyawadana Nilame, Hiripitiye Divana Rala, had a dream. He was told "Kotte kalale data meda ganna rale", which was interpreted to mean "Leave the mat and pillow and take the Tooth to the mid country". Fearing danger to the Relic, he at once took it to king Mayadunne of Sitawaka (now Avissawella) for safe keeping. The king fearing a Portuguese invasion at any moment, had it hidden at the Delgamuwa vihara. The incumbent of the vihara, sensing danger, caused to artificial replicas to be made in ivory. Keeping one of them in the place where the original was,gave the other to Vidiya Bandara, and the thera, concealing the genuine one in his waist went to Palabaddala and had it secured inside a grinding stone.

By this time the Portuguese invaded Sitawaka and carried away the artificial relic, thinking it to be the original, and sent it to Goa to be destroyed. However, the Portuguese got the news that what they had got was a duplicate of the Relic and the original was in the hands of Vidiya Bandara, the son-in-law of king Mayadunne. When Dharmapala became king of Kotte,Vidiya Bandara fled to Jaffna but he was captured on the orders of the Archbishop of Goa in 1561. The Archbishop, having secured the artificial relic from Vidiya Bandara place it in a mortar pulverised it, burnt the powder in a brazier and threw the ashes into a river. When Konappu Bandara ascended the throne of Kandy in 1592, in the name of Wimaladharmasuriya I, the incumbent of the Delgamuwa vihara, handed over the real Relic to the king,who enshrined it inside a case cut out of a ruby founded embedded in the banks of a river in Kuruviti Korale, and placed it in an edifice specially erected for it, having brought the Relic to Kandy. In 1611 a bhikku ran away with the Relic when the Portuguese invaded Kandy. "

Now you quote me the Bibliography of your source as you have introduced you as a researcher doing research for living.

BTW, what are your concerns for not disclosing your Nationality and the Religion. I did not request to disclose your identity. I know it matters for this subject than your profession.

God Bless!!!

[Darknight]

Before you ignorantly slag off people here, I recommend you study some historical sources. You find many reprints of old books on this subject (and others) even in Colombo. Just try Lake House Bookshop (40 Hyde Park Corner, Colombo 2) and you might actually learn something.

MMM, Everybody has a problem with U Kasun ???? NOW why would that be ????

mmmm.....

[kwiz117]

Before you ignorantly slag off people here, I recommend you study some historical sources. You find many reprints of old books on this subject (and others) even in Colombo. Just try Lake House Bookshop (40 Hyde Park Corner, Colombo 2) and you might actually learn something.

MMM, Everybody has a problem with U Kasun ???? NOW why would that be ????

mmmm.....

Interestingly the guy who quoted above still could not quote the source of his reply. Hope that explains the intentions of these people who are behind this campaign against humiliating people who follow Buddhism.

Anyway..what do you mean by everybody has a problem.

Where is everybody?

How many real people here?

Very funny..

[stroll]

I am one of the real people here.

You have come a long way from complaining about this forum being offensive to Buddhists to the recent batch of your postings here, Kwiz.

Please ask yourself what honourable motives you have and whether your latest comments are in line with the Buddhism you claim to defend?

[kwiz117]

I am one of the real people here.

You have come a long way from complaining about this forum being offensive to Buddhists to the recent batch of your postings here, Kwiz.

Please ask yourself what honourable motives you have and whether your latest comments are in line with the Buddhism you claim to defend?

Sorry. I said I know little and also not practicing.

But I do not like people using a forum or whatever other means to humiliate people indirectly or directly.

BTW, I studied in an Anglican School with over 150 years of a history. So I know how to respect other religions. Those days I can recall every single story in the Children's bible. But I am not going to post anything to insult the people who Believe those stories.

I am not referring to all topics and all replies here. What I am saying is that it is happening right here in this forum. I do not think anyone is moderating this section.

[Darknight]

But I do not like people using a forum or whatever other means to humiliate people indirectly or directly.

My dear Kwiz,

Maybe you should finally point us to the posts that so humiliated you, buddhism or other people??? Furthermore please include why those post or posters did that, and why then this whole forum branch should be cancelled because You and Only YOu have a problem with them.

BTW, I studied in an Anglican School with over 150 years of a history

[offensive remarks deleted]

Join in, give your views, discuss, whatever. Don't go Proclaiming that we are all in a conspiracy to do this or that because you're feeling bad about something. Thus far the only thing i've seen materialise here (and your good at it) is historical explanations off bringing buddhism from sri lankan to thailand.

By the way you've not helped me before You just showed me a lot of Wind and a lot of dreamy clouds

[more offensive remarks deleted]

Edited July 8, 2004 by sabaijai

[stroll]

deleted

Edited July 7, 2004 by stroll

[andyinkat]

The first posts in this thread raised the question of what the Buddha taught about relics.

Actually the Buddha did not say that his followers were not to venerate his relics. This is another common western misconception which stems from the failure to differentiate between the teachings he gave to his monastic disciples (the sangha) and the lay followers.

The monks were told to focus on the Dhamma but he gave permission for the lay followers to divide his relics and build stupas over them, and to make places of pilgrimage of these sites. This is all in the Mahaparinibbanasutta - the great sutra of the passing away of the Buddha.

Certain religions - notably Christianity and Islam are very dependent on certain historical events. that's not to advocate literalism but for instance it is necessary that Jesus did at least die on the cross for central tenets of the Christian faith to be true. Buddhism is different - 'salvation'/'liberation' (call it what you will) is not dependent on ancient historical events but how one transforms one's mind. Thus, I'd like to argue, disputes about whether such-and-such a relic is authentic or not is actually a side issue and a distraction from spiritual progress.

The question is not 'is it real', but 'what is it for'. The purpose of a relic is to focus the mind. whether or not you want to use language such as 'power' or 'vibes', if you have strong faith, being in the presence of a relic has a powerful effect on the mind and does help to develop one's buddhanature.

In December I went on a pilgrimage of the four main pilgrimage sites in Nepal and India and I did find it just such an experience. Was that really the very spot where Lord Buddha was born? The very tree under which he gained enlightenment? The very place where he preached to the acetics and turned the wheel of the Dhamma? The very spot where he passed into parinibbana? Really doesn't matter. The experience is the same whether it is the exact spot or off by a few metres (or kilometres).

The tooth, the tree, the finger - if you have no faith they are but objects. It is faith that gives them their power and they in turn strenghen the faith.

[and now somebody's gonna ask me, "but I thought you didn't need faith in Buddhism"- just watch!]

[penzman]

For example, almost any temple in Sri Lanka claims to have some of Buddha's bones or ashes buried in their dagobas (stupas). Some ashes are kept in the Buddha figure at Wat Indraviharn in Bangkok, at these were donated by Srilankan monks.

The famous "Buddha tooth"

Shouldn't there be only ashes OR bones remaining???

[andyinkat]

Shouldn't there be only ashes OR bones remaining???

Not necessarily. It depends on the amount of firewood used and heat generated. I've sat meditating through the whole process at burning ghats in India and Nepal and I've seen that sometimes you get a pile of ash and small splinters of bone plus teeth left at the end.

But thinking along these lines still falls into the literalism trap; as I suggested above if your mind is stuck inside a limited western rationalism mode then relics - authentic or not - will have no power for you.

[huski]

last year i was honored to see buddha's tooth in thailand on the last day before it was brought back to china...let me tell you, the vibe in that room was like nothing i have ever felt in my life. cameras were forbidden inside but i do have small posters of his tooth that were available for sale outside

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200303/0...01_112515.shtml

[stroll]

I am also one of these 'nuts' who feel a strong spiritual presence around differnet places and objects such as sacred sites, churches, temples and Buddha statues, some, not all. I have had many discussions as to why that would be so, explanations ranging from it being my imagination, to earth, spiritual or cosmic energies being focused, to the theory that the amount of worshippers believing create an energy center. All somewhat dissatisfying answers in the realm of speculation.

Now Andy's reply form a Buddhist scholar's point of view is the most clarifying answer in a short paragraph I have come across.

[sabaijai]

Pali Buddhist chronicles agree that the idea to enshrine the Buddha's remains came from the Buddha himself. As Andy mentioned, the most salient instrcutions hail from the Mahaparinibbana Sutta (Discourse on Great Final Nirvana). According to this document – which may not have been written down until as long as a half millennium after the Buddha’s passing away – the teacher’s chief living disciple, Ananda, visited his master at his deathbed in Kusinara. Asked what the monks should do with his remains following cremation, the Buddha replied that they should be enclosed in a stupa raised at the intersection of four highways, like the stupas which held the corporeal vestiges of great monarchs and tathagata (literally ‘those who have gone beyond,’ i.e., spiritual teachers of high attainment). The Buddha furthermore requested that his disciples divide the remains into four portions in order to establish stupas at four places: where the teacher was born (Lumbini); the site of his spiritual transformation or Enlightenment (Bodh Gaya); the site of his first public discourse (Sarnath); and his death site (Kusinara).

And whosoever shall there place garlands or perfumes or paint, or make salutation there, or become in its presence calm in heart -- that shall long be to them for a profit and a joy. Mahaparinibbana Sutta VI, 62

All the Buddhist chronicles agree that the Buddha’s post-cremation remains – the bones – were divided and subdivided to make `small relics the size of a mustard seed, great relics the size of a grain of rice' for enshrinement in a multitude of stupas. Seven relics, however – the cranium, the two collarbones and four teeth – were not subdivided. Other items also became candidates for enshrinement, including Buddha's nail or hair clippings (saved from when he was still alive), and personal possessions such as his alms bowl, robes and staff, all of which are thought to have been disassembled and subdivided over time to provide more material for enshrinement.

The Tibetans have added ringsel, tiny, pearl-like crystalline balls said to be self-generated relics from the cremations of Buddhas or high lamas, to the sacred relics category. I've seen some relics in Thailand which seem to correspond to ringsel as well, so it may not be limited to Tibetan Buddhism.

This does put into question the survival of a fingerbone. Literalism is pre-supposed by the use of the word 'fingerbone' by those purveying the object. If a literal interpretation were not intended, it would be enough to say 'Buddha relic'.

[kwiz117]

I've seen some relics in Thailand which seem to correspond to ringsel as well, so it may not be limited to Tibetan Buddhism.

Could you tell me and the other members where did you see this in Thailand?

Around two months back, they displayed in Aydhaya Temple. Are you referring to that? We went. We rally had out doubts over it. No security, nothing. Normally if it is so much sacred, they protect it and not even allow people to go closer. In this case, they allowed us to walk right in front of it, totally unprotected.

[eyespan]

I saw some at the huge stuppa they built in Phuket. The name of the temple is Wat Chalong. Also in Songkhla in Wat Phakor, you may witness the sarira of the buddhist saint Long Poh Tuad.