Teenager who joined IS group in Syria to lose UK citizenship

[SpaceKadet]

2 hours ago, farcanell said:

That’s all rather irrelevant isn’t it?

 

the post is about a girl being stripped of her citizenship by a western country.... which has nothing to do with Islam or allah, but everything to do with how a western country has decided to act.

 

Ergo nothing to ask of a Muslim, but rather, something  to ask of western society.

 

again, this will speak to/of our culture, not theirs.... it’s not them that’s stripping this girls citizenship from her, is it?

 

and really? “In the unlikely event that I have any” (Muslim associates... btw, I prefer Muslim friends)... an infantile jab, at best

Totally disagree. It has everything to do with Islam and Allah and mohamed PBUH... It's about a woman who has embraced the extremism of Islamic faith. One that has no regret, and no remorse of her actions. One that apparently sees nothing wrong with killing of people that she regards as infidels. Is this a law abiding citizen you want back in the UK?

I just wish that my county was as resolute as the UK government is about her case....

[SpaceKadet]

2 hours ago, farcanell said:

Are you claiming that the 5% of the British population that is Muslim, does not have to comply with British law?

 

lol... that 5% certainly has y’all running with your tails between your legs.

Well, those 5% as you claim it, seems to be 95% more prone to religious violence than the rest.

[SpaceKadet]

20 minutes ago, farcanell said:

It’s the same god... presaged to humanity by the same arch angel... it just has a different name.... peter vs Pierre, if you will.

C'mon, there is no God and there is no Allah. These are constructs devised to subdue the masses.

[farcanell]

1 minute ago, SpaceKadet said:

Well, those 5% as you claim it, seems to be 95% more prone to religious violence than the rest.

Can you substantiate that?

 

and... if one removes the term religious, is 95% of violence committed by Muslims?

 

i have already researched and debunked previous rubbish claims about the rape rate committed by Muslims, so I would prefer it you backed up your stats with facts, rather than just stick made up numbers in there, which suit your agenda.

[farcanell]

2 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

C'mon, there is no God and there is no Allah. These are constructs devised to subdue the masses.

IMHO.... you are 100% correct in this.

[farcanell]

17 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

Totally disagree. It has everything to do with Islam and Allah and mohamed PBUH... It's about a woman who has embraced the extremism of Islamic faith. One that has no regret, and no remorse of her actions. One that apparently sees nothing wrong with killing of people that she regards as infidels. Is this a law abiding citizen you want back in the UK?

I just wish that my county was as resolute as the UK government is about her case....

Yes... bring her home and prosecute her under British law.

 

im generally against anything trump on principle ( the principle being I refuse to endorse him and his presidency), but for once, he’s right.

 

repatriate and try your own citizens for their wrong doings.

 

each country must be accountable for the product of its system... in doing this, each country must accept responsibility for its failings, learn from its mistakes, improve its systems, and move forward in a manner that better protects its citizens.

 

if this child is guilty, she should be punished by her government, post trial... which is the basic tenant of modern law.... something that sets us above the medieval ways of dealing justice 

 

as to your first comment... we will just have to agree to disagree, as I believe this is a matter whereby British law should deal with British citizens, especially when there is evidence that she was the victim of a predator in becoming radicalized.

 

on another note... this girl is currently still surrounded by Muslims in a Muslim country.... perhaps... just perhaps, she’s smart enough not to slag off Islam in front of other Muslims... just a thought... but if repatriated, this question would be answered, by largely removing her from repercussions of saying anything anti Islamic, in front of islamists.

 

im actually quite surprised that people aren’t more interested in the answers and possible ways to prevent further incidences in the pursuit of justice and the future safety of their nation’s children.

[riclag]

21 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Yes... bring her home and prosecute her under British law.

 

im generally against anything trump on principle ( the principle being I refuse to endorse him and his presidency), but for once, he’s right.

 

repatriate and try your own citizens for their wrong doings.

 

each country must be accountable for the product of its system... in doing this, each country must accept responsibility for its failings, learn from its mistakes, improve its systems, and move forward in a manner that better protects its citizens.

 

if this child is guilty, she should be punished by her government, post trial... which is the basic tenant of modern law.... something that sets us above the medieval ways of dealing justice 

 

as to your first comment... we will just have to agree to disagree, as I believe this is a matter whereby British law should deal with British citizens, especially when there is evidence that she was the victim of a predator in becoming radicalized.

 

on another note... this girl is currently still surrounded by Muslims in a Muslim country.... perhaps... just perhaps, she’s smart enough not to slag off Islam in front of other Muslims... just a thought... but if repatriated, this question would be answered, by largely removing her from repercussions of saying anything anti Islamic, in front of islamists.

 

im actually quite surprised that people aren’t more interested in the answers and possible ways to prevent further incidences in the pursuit of justice and the future safety of their nation’s children.

The women and others who left their perspective countries, left to support killing, and maiming  their fellow citizens!Whether they be  man women or child  they should be treated like combatants ! The sad part is the tax payer has to foot the bill for their prison existence 

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, Krataiboy said:

God forbid. And I do mean God and not Allah.

There is no God but God.  On that we are united with the Muslims.  

[vogie]

For the first time ever the English are celebrating something that's not coming home.

[StreetCowboy]

3 hours ago, farcanell said:

That’s all rather irrelevant isn’t it?

 

the post is about a girl being stripped of her citizenship by a western country.... which has nothing to do with Islam or allah, but everything to do with how a western country has decided to act.

 

Ergo nothing to ask of a Muslim, but rather, something  to ask of western society.

 

again, this will speak to/of our culture, not theirs.... it’s not them that’s stripping this girls citizenship from her, is it?

 

and really? “In the unlikely event that I have any” (Muslim associates... btw, I prefer Muslim friends)... an infantile jab, at best

Can we all be deprived of our citizenship if our religious or political views diverge from those of the Government of the day, or is that only the case for young Muslim ladies, and for middle-aged Christian white males, would a trial be required first?  

 

I only ask out of pragmatic self-interest.

 

What is the precedent for stripping someone of their citizenship?  Lord Haw Haw was not stripped of his citizenship (though falsefully obtained) and instead hanged for treason (if wikipedia is to be believed)

 

SC

[StreetCowboy]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

IMHO.... you are 100% correct in this.

So should we discriminate against Christians whenever we condemn Muslims?  Whether imagined or real, it is the same God.

[farcanell]

14 minutes ago, riclag said:

The women and others who left their perspective countries, left to support killing, and maiming  their fellow citizens!Whether they be  man women or child  they should be treated like combatants ! The sad part is the tax payer has to foot the bill for their prison existence 

Yep.... or no.

 

the first thing that springs to mind, when reading your post, is the image of a ten year old wearing a suicide vest, intend on martyrdom.... is this a conscious act of terrorism, or an act inspired by fear and indoctrination of an immature mind, otherwise incaple of rational thought?

 

intent should be demonstrated by our judicial system... we must maintain our standards, in spite of the standards of others, or become subject to the standards of others.

 

in your countries case, trump has come out and said he will not allow American citizens to be tried by a third party (mainly considering crimes against humanity as allegedly committed by black sites, imo) so y’all are locked in already... you have to take the good with the bad.

[farcanell]

13 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

So should we discriminate against Christians whenever we condemn Muslims?  Whether imagined or real, it is the same God.

We should not discriminate against others for their beliefs, as a rule. Actions perhaps, but not thoughts or beliefs.... similarly, those of us with no beliefs, should not be discriminated against for not adopting a religion

 

that said, there are exceptions to the rule... unwilling human sacrifices to appease the gods, being one that springs to mind, whilst extremists who pervert the intent of their gods will, would be another... or more specifically, those that pose a risk to others, because of their beliefs

 

similarly, we shouldn’t condemn others because of beliefs, or lack thereof. In general, Ones religious ideals has nothing to do with their integrity, honesty or worth to society.

[Krataiboy]

2 hours ago, farcanell said:

It’s the same god... presaged to humanity by the same arch angel... it just has a different name.... peter vs Pierre, if you will.

The respective prophets of God and Allah were chalk and cheese.

 

Jesus was a man who preached and practised tolerance, peace and love, and respected women.  Muhammed was a mass murderer, misogynist and pedophile whose call to never-ending jihad against "non-believers" (including millions of Muslims who believe in a rival prophet) continues to reap a bitter harvest of suffering around the world.

 

If you are correct in stating the majority of rapists are white (the source you cite far from definitive) this would not be unexpected in a country where the overwhelming majority of residents, at least for the time being, is white.

 

However, I have yet to hear about any white, British Christian grooming gangs going round systematically raping, drugging and abusing Muslim women - and attempting to justify their behavior by quoting Jesus or the Bible.

 

Thank God.

 

 

 

[farcanell]

43 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Can we all be deprived of our citizenship if our religious or political views diverge from those of the Government of the day, or is that only the case for young Muslim ladies, and for middle-aged Christian white males, would a trial be required first?  

 

I only ask out of pragmatic self-interest.

 

What is the precedent for stripping someone of their citizenship?  Lord Haw Haw was not stripped of his citizenship (though falsefully obtained) and instead hanged for treason (if wikipedia is to be believed)

 

SC

Great stuff cowboy.... interesting stuff.

 

lord haw haw was an Irishman (or sympathizers), during a War were some Irish viewed Germany as the enemy of their enemy, and therefore their friend

 

similarly, captured Americans during the revolution, were not deemed enemy combatants, but rather, traitors, and at times suffered a traitors fate.... so these things (decisions) were politically motivated.

 

But no... one cannot be deprived of citizenship because of beliefs, in modern cultures. In the case of the US, it’s enshrined in the constitution... in ages past, a person might be exiled.

 

the grey currently area under debate seems to be centered around dual nationality. One can be revoked, specifically the one most closely aligned to naturalization. Revocation of nationality by birth, will most likely fail in a court setting.

 

and... I hate to think what kind of pragmatic interest inspired your question ????

 

 

[farcanell]

37 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

The respective prophets of God and Allah were chalk and cheese.

 

Jesus was a man who preached and practised tolerance, peace and love, and respected women.  Muhammed was a mass murderer, misogynist and pedophile whose call to never-ending jihad against "non-believers" (including millions of Muslims who believe in a rival prophet) continues to reap a bitter harvest of suffering around the world.

 

If you are correct in stating the majority of rapists are white (the source you cite far from definitive) this would not be unexpected in a country where the overwhelming majority of residents, at least for the time being, is white.

 

However, I have yet to hear about any white, British Christian grooming gangs going round systematically raping, drugging and abusing Muslim women - and attempting to justify their behavior by quoting Jesus or the Bible.

 

Thank God.

 

 

 

The respective messengers to both religions, was Gabriel. Not chalk and cheese, but the same entity.

 

mohammed was not a mass murderer, but a prophet of the supposed one true god.... the same god as adopted by Christendom  600 years earlier.

 

the violence started when Mohammed died without a successor, beginning the shi-ite/ Sunni rivalry, which still causes violence today amongst Muslims.

 

the stats I cited with a link, included percentage of offenders and percentage of population... so are equatable, with a soupçon of math.

 

regards the comment about rapes as a part of grooming... I haven’t heard of other groups doing this either, in recent modern history, although history is full of accounts of rape as a phycological weopon against invaders or enemies.... but that said, stats still show 90% of rapists in Britain are white men... they are rapists, regardless of beliefs, and this does not make them better persons, if that’s what you are suggesting

 

if instead your espousing the virtue of white Christians, then shame, and let me point you at the scandal involving priests raping little boys... lovely innit?

 

and curiously, to me at least, is why anyone would thank a god that lets these atrocities occur... if it were an identifiable person, that let atrocities be committed on his/her watch, that person would be persecuted, but not god, who loves us so, yet let’s us be victims of atrocities on his/ her watch.... bizzare... but go ahead and thank god, whom allows this, if it makes everything a ok within your brainbox.

[SheungWan]

Notwithstanding a lot of the back and forth arguments in this thread, one simple legal reality remains which is that anyone with dual nationality who participates in or supports terrorist activities may have their British nationality revoked. If the Government decision holds then any future intention to participate in such activities by other individuals stands to receive similar treatment. Maybe Jeremy Corbyn would care to put reversal of such a policy into the manifesto of the Labour Party at the next election. Should be a vote winner. Not.

[Chelseafan]

5 hours ago, malagateddy said:

Sooner the UK bans all islamic clothing and halal food the better..time to make a start to make the UK a better place for the non islamic population.
Also any imman must be British born..no imports.
AFAIC..countries like Poland etc have got it right.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

You do realise that most mainstream Halal foods are produced in exactly the same way as "non-halal" foods.

The difference is that they are blessed. Hardly a problem is it ?

A lot of coated chicken sold in retailers is made from Halal meat. There's no legislation to say that retailers have to label it as Halal.

 

 

[Richard W]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

But no... one cannot be deprived of citizenship because of beliefs, in modern cultures. In the case of the US, it’s enshrined in the constitution... in ages past, a person might be exiled.

 

the grey currently area under debate seems to be centered around dual nationality. One can be revoked, specifically the one most closely aligned to naturalization. Revocation of nationality by birth, will most likely fail in a court setting.

Only those who are naturalised British or are, in law, dual nationals are at risk of involuntarily losing British nationality.  Entitlement to another nationality does not put those who are British citizens other than by naturalisation at risk of losing citizenship.

 

The wording of the law is that deprivation of citizenship has to be 'conducive to the public good'.  However, a barrister has been rebuked by the bench for claiming that that was the threshold to be met.  Judges still remember the statement in parliament that this power would only be used for those who had engaged in certain 'unacceptable behaviours', such as serious organised crime.  Thus, membership of a raping grooming gang can lose oneself UK citizenship, but merely being a rapist does not.

 

Moreover, a decision to deport some as so doing would be conducive to the public good - he had disrupted the boat race - has been overridden by the courts.  Thus, it is currently hyperbole to claim that dual nationals hold UK citizenship at the Home Secretary's pleasure.

 

Being born British in the UK does not protect one's citizenship.  A British-born family of Kashmiri origin, father and sons, were stripped of British citizenship for alleged involvement in the struggle for Kashmiri independence.

[Spidey]

5 hours ago, farcanell said:

the first thing that springs to mind, when reading your post, is the image of a ten year old wearing a suicide vest, intend on martyrdom.... is this a conscious act of terrorism, or an act inspired by fear and indoctrination of an immature mind, otherwise incaple of rational thought?

I understand what you're saying but this girl is entirely different. She was 15, now 19. She knew exactly what she was doing and what she would be facing in Syria. The press and TV were full of stories of girls going to Syria and what befell them, at the time.

 

No, this girl, starved of sex and male company, in her closed Moslem community, in the UK, dreamt of handsome Jihadis queuing up to service her, all in the name of Allah. A young Moslem slut's dream.

 

She is now sat in a refugee camp, with a newborn, still dreaming. She claims to have enjoyed her time as an IS camp follower, shows no regrets other than it's all come to an end. She now expects the UK to give her and her child, a house, benefits and accept her as a returning hero.

 

She's a world away from a poor young Syrian boy, dragged away from his family, brainwashed and given a suicide vest.

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post and the replies has been removed. 

[stevenl]

Apparently she is not welcome in Bangladesh. So UK it is.

[SweetStickyRice]

I would even go one step further and ostracize her completely. Ban the media in the UK from reporting on this traitor and brand this story as fake news. Pretend as if nothing happened. I'm sure she'll figure it out, we've all had our ups and downs. Stay where you are young lady, it is best for all of us. If you've left the UK to go and help "YOUR" people, help "US" now and just stay there. I always like to end things on a slightly positive note. Young lady, despite anything, you did what you believed in and should be proud of yourself. If you return, it will completely erase what you have stood for in the first place. Is it worth it? Stay where you are. It's best for all of us and you.

[alfieconn]

11 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

There’s evidence.

 

Even the daily mail admits that. 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6706701/amp/The-plot-flee-schoolgirl-Bethnal-Green-groomed-callous-ISIS-bride.html

 

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/14/shamima-begum-grooming-islamic-state-pregnant-uk

So the Daily mail and the left wing Guardian say she was groomed so she must have been ???? she didn't need to be groomed, Muslim extremist etc was in her family, just have a look at her dad along side Choudrey. 

[JingjoDave]

Ummmmm , as an Aussie I hate being the sensible one ,,, but what about the baby? Let the baby in and not the mother. 

[alfieconn]

11 hours ago, farcanell said:

Indeed... 84% of rapes from 2.5% of the population is horrific... but then, your claim is complete cow turd islamophobic propaganda perhaps designed to demonize a section of the community that you appear to hate

 

the actual figures would seem to be 12% of rapes by 6% of the population.... which is still horrific, but nothing at all like your bigoted claim

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/324097/number-males-rape-muslim.doc

So because i report that a high proportion of muslims are rapists that makes me a bigot does it ? 

 

The Quilliam report, Group Based Child Sexual Exploitation: Dissecting Grooming Gangs, written by Haras Rafiq and Muna Adil, claims that 84% of grooming gang offenders are Asian, the majority “of Pakistani origin with Muslim heritage”. That figure quickly caught the headlines, cementing the narrative of an “epidemic” of Asian grooming gangs.

 

The Muslim men population is not 6%, my fig of 2.5% is the number of muslim men not unless woman and children are also raping girls.

[JingjoDave]

12 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

muslim men not unless woman and children are also raping girls.

Now you are also SEXIST ,, how dare you remove the right of woman to rape. BIGOT and Sexist ,,, you must be one of those WHITIES ????  ????

[farcanell]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

No, this girl, starved of sex and male company, in her closed Moslem community, in the UK, dreamt of handsome Jihadis queuing up to service her, all in the name of Allah. A young Moslem slut's dream.

Right... so not really in touch with reality, and not really emotionally and mentally mature enough to be allowed to make her own informed decisions.... and still 15 when the decision was made, which is only a few months, weeks, days older than 14

 

now 19.... sure.... but do you think she really had the opportunity to exercise free will, as she, at 14/15 knew it (even as a British Muslim), once she arrived in Syria.? I don’t.

 

i do understand the negativity... but I don’t understand the willingness of people to allow their civil liberties and rights to be eroded by precedent

 

bring her home and hold her accountable under British law... for good or ill, to preserve british law, and perhaps get a better understanding of how to better protect british citizens in future.

(from their own government... from groomers.... from their parents or from themselves)

[JingjoDave]

8 hours ago, farcanell said:

mohammed was not a mass murderer, but a prophet of the supposed one true god.... the same god as adopted by Christendom  600 years earlier.

  

the violence started when Mohammed died without a successor, beginning the shi-ite/ Sunni rivalry, which still causes violence today amongst Muslims.

NOPE ,,, Christian God had a son called Jesus ,,, I have fallen for this trap before that terrorist's God is same. Also Mohammed married a 13 year old girl ,,, I choose not to use the legal term for that.

 

Hmm not quite true ,,, he actually left two successors ,,, hence the problem. The true successor was extremely ambiguous , "the one closest to me" . Perhaps Mohammed was a Thai immigration in a former life?

[farcanell]

1 hour ago, JingjoDave said:

Ummmmm , as an Aussie I hate being the sensible one ,,, but what about the baby? Let the baby in and not the mother. 

What a much better idea than one of the other members appalling suggestions to “let the sprog rot in the desert”.... but luckily for this girl, the laws of the land will likely see her full repatriation

 

this whole sorry story seems to hi-lights the need for change to the british system, if it’s even half as broken as some members claim... this girls story, when fully exposed, could be the genesis for that change