Samui traffic jams

[wilcopops]

15 hours ago, khunPer said:

Thanks...

I see exactly the same as you, but I don't see all at all times, so therefore I used the available local stats. And even they are a bit old now, as we have not been updated public for a decade, they might not be that outdated: 80% to 85% of accidents involved drunk driving, and around 15% of the accidents involved foreigners (the stats didn't specify if 85% of the foreigners were drunk). And looking at various photos, including those shared by @spidermike007, some degree of (high) speed is needed to cause the level of shown damage. As I said in an earlier post, its like the speed on the Ring Road has increased after the tarmac make-up came on top, and there are also more fast driving wanna-be motorbikes taking over now, so speed must indeed be a major factor. In the latest general Thai stats speed counts for more than 1/4 of the accidents. That's why I state that alcohol and speed are important issues to improve road safety.

 

And there might be a difference between what irritates us in the traffic – like 20 kph driver, and bad signalling – and what is actually the direct cause of accidents; it might not be the slow driving vehicle, but rather the one that takes over at high speed under wrong conditions.

????

You are not arguing with anything I've posted...you are just making assumptions.

Personal observation is the very worst way of co.ing to conclusions about road safety. If you still consider this apt, it would suggest you are unaware of the complexities of the issues involved.

[wilcopops]

21 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

That figure is just the number of people who die at the roadside. Those that die in the ambulance, at the hospital

This is not true...it is not how the stats are compiles at all.

I suggest you look into how road safety stats are compiled rather than repeating this myth.

[wilcopops]

21 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

Spot on KhunPer. I believe that the reason for the lack of statistics on Samui was that they showed just how dangerous the roads here are.

 

I have not seen any published stats for a while, but the last figure that I saw was more than 500 deaths per year from motorbike accidents alone. That was just Samui.

 

That figure is actually misleading. The real number is much higher. This is because of the way that road deaths are reported. That figure is just the number of people who die at the roadside. Those that die in the ambulance, at the hospital or elsewhere - are not included.

 

I pass this information on to guests that ask me where they can rent a scooter. Many of them change their mind and opt for a car instead. I like to think that I have maybe saved someone's life by taking this approach.

 

A lot of the blame also falls on the shoulders of the people who rent out the bikes. Sometimes even knowing that the person has never ridden one before. The rental company that I use tries to minimise the dangers by asking two questions before he hands over the keys. Get one answer in the negative and no rental! The questions are

 

1 Have you ridden a scooter before?

 

2 Show me a driving licence

80 % of all the road deaths in Thailand are road users in the vulnerable category.

There are no stats available for minor and serious injuries. 

About 73 to 75% are drivers and passengers of 2 wheeled vehicles. There are no stats in Thailand to indicated size or speed.

Around 15% are 4 wheeled private vehicles. (See photos?!?), this means that your chances of dying in a private vehicle are about the same as in the USA.

Certain areas in Thailand are worse than others...I believe a Forbes charity is currently working on accident blackspots around Thailand....... the problem being that the stats that might identify these locations are not available. (Do you see a pattern emerging?) .... 

Samui would appear to have the right conditions gor a perfect road safety storm..... poor roads, high alcohol, inexperienced drivers on 2 wheeled vehicles....there are a lot of boxes to be ticked.

However in line with national road safety policies for at least the last 30 years there is an almost total lack of scientific approach to the natter. Yet Thailand has the 10th biggest motor Industry in the world and just about the highest vehicle ownership in the region

The result is that whilst other countries around the world are reducing not just road deaths but injuries too, Thailand just increases along with the amount of vehicles on the road.

There are idiot drivers all over the world in equal proportions ..as seen in microcosm on Samui..... road safety is the science of preventing idiots doing what they want to do. 

No one one in authority on Samui or the rest of the country seems to appreciate this, so nothing is done. Invoking measures to ineffectively address single issues will NEVER  have a significant effect.... we have seen campaigns against drink, speeding etc launch and flop year after year

Unless Thailand adopts a total scientific approach to road safety we will never see improvement.

They have to address ALL of the 5 road safety "E"s and some of this can require major national rethink and finance.

Education

Engineering

Enforcement

Emergency

Evaluation.

Thailand just doesn't do this.

 

In countries where this is applied the death rate can be lower than one tenth of Thailand's pitiful statistics.

It no good expecting miracles from some bright unresearched idea a local nabob had one morning on the way to work, it requires a ground up rethink of attitudes and methodology.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wilcopops]

21 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

of the accidents involved alcohol (i.e. drunk driving),

This is incorrect.

"Involving alcohol" does not equate to drunk driving. (The poster has used "i.e.")

This means that some or any of the parties involved had some measure of alcohol in their blood stream when tested

[GalaxyMan]

5 hours ago, wilcopops said:

Speed bumps are. A safety hazard and they damage cars runnIng gear.

That's the whole point. If you are going faster than the proscribed speed limit, for which the speed bump will have been designed, then you damage your vehicle. I'd call that a great deterrent to speeding. They do it that way in Holland and it works.

[huberthammer]

4 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said:

That's the whole point. If you are going faster than the proscribed speed limit, for which the speed bump will have been designed, then you damage your vehicle. I'd call that a great deterrent to speeding. They do it that way in Holland and it works.

I would predict that here it would lead to even more horrific accidents with small cars/bikes slowing down while the SUVs and trunks would still gun through the speed bumps. Also lets not forget the quality of the road construction, probably no adequate to construct speed bumps designated or a specific speed.

 

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

That's the whole point. If you are going faster than the proscribed speed limit, for which the speed bump will have been designed, then you damage your vehicle. I'd call that a great deterrent to speeding. They do it that way in Holland and it works.

In small side roads with little traffic bumps works to reduce speed, also on Koh Samui. On major roads automatic electronic speed controls with hefty fines works much better than obstacles, and in Thailand the authorities might even seize the car if fines are not paid – that works extremely well – furthermore, fines gives an extra income to keep up the good work of the islands kind police force...????

[khunPer]

9 hours ago, wilcopops said:

You are not arguing with anything I've posted...you are just making assumptions.

Personal observation is the very worst way of co.ing to conclusions about road safety. If you still consider this apt, it would suggest you are unaware of the complexities of the issues involved.

I'm actually not arguing with you at all – it's not an answer to your posts – I kindly replied @SamuiGeezer's post; and furthermore, I didn't jump to any conclusions, but mentioned pure stats as facts, even I fully agreed in SamuiGeezer's observations, seeing the same myself.
 

I'll kindly inform you that I don't intend to discuss anymore with you, as you already won our argumentation.

[khunPer]

There has been talked much about road-design and condition of Samui's the roads in this thread.

 

I feel I should just remind you about the great road improvements this island had in just two decades, if you don't recall it – the often quoted "good old days before Samui was spoiled" – I borrowed a photo from a friend...

 

[GalaxyMan]

17 minutes ago, khunPer said:

There has been talked much about road-design and condition of Samui's the roads in this thread.

 

I feel I should just remind you about the great road improvements this island had in just two decades, if you don't recall it – the often quoted "good old days before Samui was spoiled" – I borrowed a photo from a friend...

 

That's what I remember from when I first came here in 1983.

Also, I doubt that any road on Samui could be considered 'major' in any possible way.

[wilcopops]

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

mentioned pure stats as facts,

pure stats are not facts - big mistake to make - you need to consider, as I said before who gathers these "facts" and how they are interpreted.

[wilcopops]

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

I'm actually not arguing with you at all – it's not an answer to your posts – I kindly replied @SamuiGeezer's post; and furthermore, I didn't jump to any conclusions, but mentioned pure stats as facts, even I fully agreed in SamuiGeezer's observations, seeing the same myself.
  

I'll kindly inform you that I don't intend to discuss anymore with you, as you already won our argumentation.

So I was correct?

[wilcopops]

9 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

They do it that way in Holland and it works.

Speed bumps in Holland and the rest of the EU are completely different from the psychopathic often unmarked ridges that litter the roads of Thailand and even then they are heavily criticises.......

 

http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2016/08/speed-bumps-are-not-effective-traffic.html

 

in Thailand they are put down without rhyme nor reason.........they even have a speed bump in the Emergeny entrance to one of the main hospitals - go figure that one!

 

speed bumps damage the suspension, shock absorbers and brakes of cars making them less safe on roads - they interfere with braking distances and cause drivers to accelerate and decelerate reducing fuel economy and increasing emissions. The government has for some time being advising local councils in UK to remove them and redesign the roads where they are used. I think with Thailand it is just another symptom of how out of touch authorities ae with current road safety practices.

Edited March 5, 2019 by wilcopops

[wilcopops]

4 hours ago, khunPer said:

I feel I should just remind you about the great road improvements this island had in just two decades, if you don't recall it

As the "improvements" you refer to are for the most part badly conceived executed and designed they hardly qualify for the term improvement....all they have achieved is generating extra traffic and pollution and ta large number of deaths. 

whilst other countries build roads and deaths reduce, in Thailand the opposite occurs.

[CharlieH]

A number of bickering/personal remarks removed.

 

Keep it civil please, dont get personal.

[wilcopops]

On 3/5/2019 at 10:12 AM, GalaxyMan said:

That's the whole point. If you are going faster than the proscribed speed limit, for which the speed bump will have been designed, then you damage your vehicle. I'd call that a great deterrent to speeding. They do it that way in Holland and it works.

Proscribed limit? What is that who proscribes it and how do thet determine this?

 

[GalaxyMan]

2 hours ago, wilcopops said:

Proscribed limit? What is that who proscribes it and how do thet determine this?

 

The speed limits are posted everywhere, usually 45kph, though there are a few places where it's 50kph, at least here in Samui. I haven't seen any speed limit signs over 50kph.

[Tropicalevo]

When I first came to Samui there were large yellow signs scattered around stating that the island wide limit was 80 kph unless stated otherwise. These signs disappeared years ago. (Probably destroyed by out of control speeding cement trucks ????)

[GalaxyMan]

1 hour ago, Tropicalevo said:

When I first came to Samui there were large yellow signs scattered around stating that the island wide limit was 80 kph unless stated otherwise. These signs disappeared years ago. (Probably destroyed by out of control speeding cement trucks ????)

I saw one of those cement trucks overturned right in front of Beach Sound in Bang Po Tuesday. There was at least one crushed scooter. I don't know if it was one that had been parked there or not. There was cement all over the road and traffic was predictably backed up.

[SamuiGeezer]

2 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

I saw one of those cement trucks overturned right in front of Beach Sound in Bang Po Tuesday. There was at least one crushed scooter. I don't know if it was one that had been parked there or not. There was cement all over the road and traffic was predictably backed up.

I can see that might cause a traffic 'jam' 

[wilcopops]

5 hours ago, GalaxyMan said:

The speed limits are posted everywhere, usually 45kph, though there are a few places where it's 50kph, at least here in Samui. I haven't seen any speed limit signs over 50kph.

Are you seriously suggesting that the "speed bumps" on Thai roads are designed and gauged to fit in with suspension specification of cars at certain speeds?

You really should take about 30 seconds to compare the kind of speed reduction methods used in EU to those promulgated here in Thailand.

 

your other point about speed limits is also untenable - the speed limit signs together with all road signage in Thailand and Samui is frankly risible - positioning, decisions as to which piece of road should delimited and the fact that they is no measured repletion and most people don't even know when the deristriciotn signs are would indicate that their set up and location is verging on random.....firthermore their is absolutely no effeort made to ensure compliance - the truth is that road and traffic engineering simply don't exist on Samui or indeed in Thailand.

 

[GalaxyMan]

8 minutes ago, wilcopops said:

Are you seriously suggesting that the "speed bumps" on Thai roads are designed and gauged to fit in with suspension specification of cars at certain speeds?

You'll need to show me where I posted anything that even remotely suggests anything so silly. I suggested that they SHOULD do it that way. ????

[wilcopops]

24 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said:

You'll need to show me where I posted anything that even remotely suggests anything so silly. I suggested that they SHOULD do it that way. ????

"That's the whole point. If you are going faster than the proscribed speed limit, for which the speed bump will have been designed, then you damage your vehicle."

[GalaxyMan]

1 hour ago, wilcopops said:

"That's the whole point. If you are going faster than the proscribed speed limit, for which the speed bump will have been designed, then you damage your vehicle."

Great! Damage the vehicle, get it off the road, one speeder taken out of action for a while. What's the problem? You want to control speeding or not? I live within sight of the ring road and am tired of seeing them scraping dead people off the road because of some idiot driving too fast, usually while drunk.

[Davo369]

On 3/5/2019 at 8:24 AM, khunPer said:

There has been talked much about road-design and condition of Samui's the roads in this thread.

 

I feel I should just remind you about the great road improvements this island had in just two decades, if you don't recall it – the often quoted "good old days before Samui was spoiled" – I borrowed a photo from a friend...

 

Yes i remember those days. Is that chaweng beach rd?

[khunPer]

7 minutes ago, Davo369 said:

Yes i remember those days. Is that chaweng beach rd?

Indeed, the right hand side diamond-shaped yellow sign says "Green Mango Club", today it looks like this according to Google Street View... ????

 

[BlackWolf]

The "good old days" at the upper picture must be 3 decades ago, and how many cars could you see in the streets at that time  and how many today.  I have said iy before, the roads in Samui is the worst in Thailand when you look at the traffic

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, BlackWolf said:

The "good old days" at the upper picture must be 3 decades ago, and how many cars could you see in the streets at that time  and how many today.  I have said iy before, the roads in Samui is the worst in Thailand when you look at the traffic

Two decades, as mentioned in the image caption, i.e. 1998 to be precise, however traffic on beach road seems the same in bouth pictures, but slightly more parked cars in the present Google-image, mainly taxis that appeared in numbers only around a than a decade ago...????