Italian couple crushed to death by oil tanker in southern Thailand

[DrTuner]

3 hours ago, watcharacters said:

Please drive defensively and anticipate the unknown.

That is correct. Assume every single Thai on the road is a complete idiot and you just might survive. On a good day.

[tabarin]

11 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

That is correct. Assume every single Thai on the road is a complete idiot and you just might survive. On a good day.

I rather stick to driving like them and react upfront to their stupidity, go with the flow of traffic and you are most safe.

[KneeDeep]

12 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

That is correct. Assume every single Thai on the road is a complete idiot and you just might survive. On a good day.

 

The fact is that you can do all of that and still come a cropper.

 

Perhaps you missed this recent thread; 

 

[Thingamabob]

Tragic. Motorcycling in Thailand is dangerous, even for the most skilled riders. RIP to the dead couple, and condolences to their families. 

[Too young to be old]

Who has right of way at that junction? Not that right of way means a lot there.

[Too young to be old]

There is a YouTube video regarding motorcyclists. It says you have to imagine you are invisible to all other road users. As a motorcyclist, I can relate to that.

 

In this instance, bearing in mind it is Thailand, I would believe I would have seen this tanker barrelling along and judged that we would meet at the junction and pulled over to the outside lane.

[metisdead]

Some more inflammatory personal attack posts have been removed:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[rabas]

30 minutes ago, Too young to be old said:

There is a YouTube video regarding motorcyclists. It says you have to imagine you are invisible to all other road users. As a motorcyclist, I can relate to that.

 

In this instance, bearing in mind it is Thailand, I would believe I would have seen this tanker barrelling along and judged that we would meet at the junction and pulled over to the outside lane.

Being invisible is very true. I survived 50+ years on a bike, about half in Asia including Bangkok. I would often tell Westerners and Thai alike, if you can't drive home in Bangkok, at night, with your lights off, you should not be on a bike here. No one ever sees you, even during the day.  I was not 'gaeng', I was very lucky.

 

The truck was coming way too fast, it would take the guy on the bike at least 1 second to digest the bizarre situation, by that time it was simply too late.

[rabas]

I scaled the attached video to real time and it shows how extremely fast the truck was really moving. If, the driver was really 64 years old then I think the break theory is at least possible. The truck had no chance of negotiating the curve and the driver probably never noticed the bike, he was too busy trying to save himself.

 

truckthai3.mkv

[steve73]

Although the tanker driver is clearly in the wrong, (too fast, ignored the stop sign, perhaps trying to turn too sharply when/if he did see the m/c at the last minute) the motorcyclist appears to have done a couple of things that probably didn't help.

From the video it looks as if he was still pulling out from the left filter lane into the middle lane to go straight on, as he "clipped" the hashed area.  Being so far left as he approached with the vegetation on the verge would have obscured his view of anything coming out of the side road.

(I accept that m/c's should stay in the far left of the left lane and he was probably safer there than being in the middle lane, but he was perhaps a little too late in moving across).  Whilst moving across to the right he may have been closely watching his mirror to check for cars coming up behind him and so noticed the tanker a fraction of a second later than he might otherwise have done.  Also, being used to driving on the other side he may have been "looking the wrong way" and not expecting a vehicle coming from the left at such a speed.

 

I'm not making any excuses for the (w)tanker.  He should be hung out to dry, but there are a couple of lessons to be learned for anyone who rides a m/c here:-

Always expect the unexpected... and always be prepared to stop.  Even a soi dog running out can be enough to cause you to lose control.

Stay as wide as possible (where it's safe to do so) when coming to a side junction, to give maximum visibility into the side road, and avoid making last minute changes of lane or direction.

Don't drive too fast especially in unfamiliar areas.  (I was trained to be able to stop completely in the distance I can see to be clear.. and that includes other vehicles, pedestrians (or dogs) suddenly appearing in front of you.)

   

It doesn't matter if you have the right of way... in the event of an accident, having the RoW will rarely save your life.   So ride defensively and avoid being in an accident.

[KneeDeep]

4 minutes ago, steve73 said:

Although the tanker driver is clearly in the wrong, (too fast, ignored the stop sign, perhaps trying to turn too sharply when/if he did see the m/c at the last minute) the motorcyclist appears to have done a couple of things that probably didn't help.

From the video it looks as if he was still pulling out from the left filter lane into the middle lane to go straight on, as he "clipped" the hashed area.  Being so far left as he approached with the vegetation on the verge would have obscured his view of anything coming out of the side road.

(I accept that m/c's should stay in the far left of the left lane and he was probably safer there than being in the middle lane, but he was perhaps a little too late in moving across).  Whilst moving across to the right he may have been closely watching his mirror to check for cars coming up behind him and so noticed the tanker a fraction of a second later than he might otherwise have done.  Also, being used to driving on the other side he may have been "looking the wrong way" and not expecting a vehicle coming from the left at such a speed.

 

I'm not making any excuses for the (w)tanker.  He should be hung out to dry, but there are a couple of lessons to be learned for anyone who rides a m/c here:-

Always expect the unexpected... and always be prepared to stop.  Even a soi dog running out can be enough to cause you to lose control.

Stay as wide as possible (where it's safe to do so) when coming to a side junction, to give maximum visibility into the side road, and avoid making last minute changes of lane or direction.

Don't drive too fast especially in unfamiliar areas.  (I was trained to be able to stop completely in the distance I can see to be clear.. and that includes other vehicles, pedestrians (or dogs) suddenly appearing in front of you.)

   

It doesn't matter if you have the right of way... in the event of an accident, having the RoW will rarely save your life.   So ride defensively and avoid being in an accident.

 

 

I'm sorry but your assertions are complete nonsense. Even if you were right and he moved from the left turn lane to his position on the left line of the middle lane, there was NO CHANCE that he would have seen the truck even if not filtering from the left turn lane, as it simply was not there to be seen.

 

It's funny how all these people come out of the woodwork with their hindsight tips that are of no use whatsoever.

 

Wake up! You are watching a CCTV that has been slowed down by at least a factor of 8. Watch rabas's video above yours to get an idea of how fast the truck appeared out of nowhere.

 

Even if in the outside lane the rider would have been in peril. This is not a normal incident. The rider had no chance and likely neither would you under the same circumstances.

 

Look at rabas's video and tell me again...

 

[Hooliganzone]

Although the tanker driver is clearly in the wrong, (too fast, ignored the stop sign, perhaps trying to turn too sharply when/if he did see the m/c at the last minute) the motorcyclist appears to have done a couple of things that probably didn't help.
From the video it looks as if he was still pulling out from the left filter lane into the middle lane to go straight on, as he "clipped" the hashed area.  Being so far left as he approached with the vegetation on the verge would have obscured his view of anything coming out of the side road.
(I accept that m/c's should stay in the far left of the left lane and he was probably safer there than being in the middle lane, but he was perhaps a little too late in moving across).  Whilst moving across to the right he may have been closely watching his mirror to check for cars coming up behind him and so noticed the tanker a fraction of a second later than he might otherwise have done.  Also, being used to driving on the other side he may have been "looking the wrong way" and not expecting a vehicle coming from the left at such a speed.
 
I'm not making any excuses for the (w)tanker.  He should be hung out to dry, but there are a couple of lessons to be learned for anyone who rides a m/c here:-
Always expect the unexpected... and always be prepared to stop.  Even a soi dog running out can be enough to cause you to lose control.
Stay as wide as possible (where it's safe to do so) when coming to a side junction, to give maximum visibility into the side road, and avoid making last minute changes of lane or direction.
Don't drive too fast especially in unfamiliar areas.  (I was trained to be able to stop completely in the distance I can see to be clear.. and that includes other vehicles, pedestrians (or dogs) suddenly appearing in front of you.)
   
It doesn't matter if you have the right of way... in the event of an accident, having the RoW will rarely save your life.   So ride defensively and avoid being in an accident.

Too right 100% thats what I meant but your much better than me explaining, well.done.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[steve73]

8 minutes ago, KneeDeep said:

 

 

I'm sorry but your assertions are complete nonsense. Even if you were right and he moved from the left turn lane to his position on the left line of the middle lane, there was NO CHANCE that he would have seen the truck even if not filtering from the left turn lane, as it simply was not there to be seen.

 

It's funny how all these people come out of the woodwork with their hindsight tips that are of no use whatsoever.

 

Wake up! You are watching a CCTV that has been slowed down by at least a factor of 8. Watch rabas's video above yours to get an idea of how fast the truck appeared out of nowhere.

 

Even if in the outside lane the rider would have been in peril. This is not a normal incident. The rider had no chance and likely neither would you under the same circumstances.

 

Look at rabas's video and tell me again...

 

It's not clear how much the m/c could have seen before the video started.  He does appear to have reacted by moving right.. perhaps hard braking would have been better (assuming the m/c had working breaks - but many rentals do not).

If you believe that you wouldn't have stood a chance in that situation then you should give up riding immediately, as similar things occur every day (perhaps not the tanker rolling on top though).

I think I ride defensively enough to be able to avoid such an incident, although obviously I hope not to have to try.  

[wreckingcountry]

Drivers of buses and lorries don’t know how to use gears! Pathetic excuse in this mad crazy country


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[KneeDeep]

12 minutes ago, steve73 said:

It's not clear how much the m/c could have seen before the video started.  He does appear to have reacted by moving right.. perhaps hard braking would have been better (assuming the m/c had working breaks - but many rentals do not).

If you believe that you wouldn't have stood a chance in that situation then you should give up riding immediately, as similar things occur every day (perhaps not the tanker rolling on top though).

I think I ride defensively enough to be able to avoid such an incident, although obviously I hope not to have to try.  

 

Stop writing rubbish. Did you watch the video in real time? Try actually doing so.

 

You don't expect a tanker to come hurtling out from a side street at speed when there is clearly no way it could turn to the left or right. So there is a certain amount of shock value and yes, something similar happened to me a few days ago.

At a four way junction I looked every way before turning left, when suddenly some idiot did an illegal u-turn. I managed to stop in time, but the bike fell and the minivan scampered off as quickly as possible, But I wasn't going at speed, so no damage to the bike and only minor damage to myself.

 

So all this crap about perfect riding is just nonsense. It can happen to anyone at any time. You can only make it harder for them to get you. But the maniacs can even get you from behind when waiting at a red light.

 

So how about you give it a rest with the 'advice' after the fact?

You weren't there and you are watching a slowed down version of the incident. So you have time to analyse the situation and come out with what you think is a smart response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DekDaeng]

On 3/1/2019 at 2:26 PM, BobbyL said:

The driver said as he approached the junction the (brakes) legs didn’t work properly causing him to lose control

 

????

 

[rabas]

• See post #193

The truck was travelling 60 km/hr as it entered the T shaped intersection, and was destined to crash no matter what the driver did. He probably never saw or cared about the motorbike.

 

I posted a full speed video in post 193, but the slower video shows the truck's speed:

The video progresses 25 frames for each 1 second in the video time stamp.

The truck takes 14 frames to move it's own length.  14/25 or about 1/2 second.

The truck is about 9 meters long. at 9 meters it is travelling 56 km/hr, at 10 meters its more than 62km/hr.

 

The trucker could see the intersection clearly from way back down the road. Either the breaks were bad or he was looking at his phone. 

[Redline]

Faulty brakes is negligence by someone 

[Alpine Lake]

On 3/1/2019 at 8:17 AM, simon43 said:

Jeez, RIP.  Your life can be snuffed out in an instant through no fault of your own....

 

[Alpine Lake]

It i sooo true. This driver will have no problem with the justice. As if bad brakes ever had been an excuse ...

[0815]

On 3/1/2019 at 2:30 PM, MaxLee said:

Sometimes I would like to understand what experience means for them...
 

[transam]

The fact remains that the HGV driver made a huge error of judgement.

I took a HGV driving test near 50 years back, I recall the instructor telling me to treat non HGV drivers as idiots, he wasn't being derogatory, he was pointing out one must think for them too when driving a HGV...He was right when I actually got out there earning a living.. 

[watcharacters]

18 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Are you a clairvoyant or just trying to sound smart ?

Nobody can anticipate the unknown.

I did not watch the video, but it appears from the comments that the victims should not be blamed.

I agree on driving defensively, but one can't drive defensively enough on these roads.

 

 

 

I'm so sorry to confuse you.   Perhaps I should have used the word "unexpected" instead of unknown.

Does that help to clarify things for you?    I hope so.

Look in the long run it's you fellows who fail to recognize and appreciate  defensive driving  and what it entails that will run into trouble with accidents.

I'll leave it at that  with it being your problem and not mine other than that  you may be the kind of driver I need to especially watch out for.

 

Have a great day and try to drive defensively.    It's not that hard to do.

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, watcharacters said:

 

 

 

I'm so sorry to confuse you.   Perhaps I should have used the word "unexpected" instead of unknown.

Does that help to clarify things for you?    I hope so.

Look in the long run it's you fellows who fail to recognize and appreciate  defensive driving  and what it entails that will run into trouble with accidents.

I'll leave it at that  with it being your problem and not mine other than that  you may be the kind of driver I need to especially watch out for.

 

Have a great day and try to drive defensively.    It's not that hard to do.

I don't disagree with you, and i appreciate all the advises on defensive driving.

..

What i disagree with, is blaming the tourists for not being aware about everyday troubles on Thai roads.

It takes some time to get used to ride/drive safely on these roads, and even then, as you say , you can expect the unexpected.

Some 10 years ago, i was nearly hit by a coconut falling from some 15 m. while riding in traffic on some main road, eventually someone decided to cut the tree, but it was there for years.

[katatonic]

On 3/2/2019 at 9:57 AM, overherebc said:

I was told once by a Thai driver that he had been taught to just turn left onto the main road and drive slowly near the left to give drivers on the main road time to see him and either slow down or overtake him. ????????????????

Thai highway rules actually give vehicles entering the road from the left, either merging or from a side road, priority. Incredible as it may seem, that is in the rule book and I only found out myself by reading it. That's a large part of the reason everyone drives in the right hand lane..

[keystonecoppers2]

 

 

                      Just to make things clear: The road that the tanker is on,

                      before coming on to 4119 is the road (4098 I think) leading to the Lomphraya

                      catamaran  terminal, to the Chumphon Shrine and to Novotel.

                      When coming from same direction as the tanker, there is a

                      big gradient that is not shown in the pictures some people already sent

                      to this thread, it level out at the soi you can see, going right in the upper

                      corner of the picture but it is very steep. Furthermore, there is a "STOP" sign

                      which you don`t see in the picture, but it`s there! It`s NOT a"yield" sign,

                      it`s a "STOP" sign!!

                      Conclusion: The tank driver did not brake, gear down, which is the way to do,

                      especially with a big truck of, maybe, half full of liquid, squashing around in the tank.

                      And most important, he don`t even thinking about to STOP, as is required in this junction!

                      I did go there today, just so I could get the facts correct, and I have been coming

                      from ALL directions in this junction before, so I know all about that one!    

[bdenner]

4 hours ago, katatonic said:

Thai highway rules actually give vehicles entering the road from the left, either merging or from a side road, priority. Incredible as it may seem, that is in the rule book and I only found out myself by reading it. That's a large part of the reason everyone drives in the right hand lane..

Correct. Anyone doing their license renewal having been subjected to the 1 hour animated video (and manage to stay awake) with see this rule emphasized many times.

[SiSePuede419]

I've been driving for the first time in Thailand this year.

 

Generally speaking, when there is congestion, I drive more cautiously than my wife.

 

And when the road is clear ahead, I'm driving @ 90-100.

 

But yeah, I pay very close attention to the big trucks, same as America.

 

Think about it, how smart do you have to be to drive a truck? ????

[keystonecoppers2]

 

 

 

                        Bdenner!

               

              When I have renewed my driving licence, people maybe look a the

              video for no longer than (maybe) 10 minutes, then their eyes are

              glued in their new babies, meaning their phones!  Go figure!!

[Huckenfell]

Had he been driving at a safe speed  it would never have turned over..........brakes , my arse.  64 yrs old and has been driving for 10 years ?