Red-state trump supporters scream "Keep your Socialist hands off our Government programs". The irony remains lost on them.

 

Americans’ mixed message for 2020 presidential candidates: Keep your socialist hands off our government programs

 

Twenty months before Election Day, Americans have a clear message for 2020 presidential candidates: keep your socialist hands off our government programs.

 

That paradoxical verdict emerges from the new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll. And it underscores the challenges facing both President Donald Trump and his Democratic adversaries.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/03/americans-mixed-message-for-2020-presidential-candidates-keep-your-socialist-hands-off-our-government-programs.html

 

 

17 hours ago, Kurtf said:

So rather than bitch about it, elect people that will change the tax code so that Amazon won't have so many ways to evade LEGALLY paying taxes.

Not easy in a political system where both parties are beholden to corporate cash.

I am an American, but still a ways off “retirement” age or being eligible (based on age alone) for any of the traditional US social programs...

That said, I DO support the IDEA of a single payer system... BUT... I am concerned about: a) the costs obviously and b) what does this do/would this do to an individuals choice to “opt out” or want to use an alternative system.

I do believe that things with our health care system are “broken” .... but I don’t really think that scrapping the system we have now - and for the most part have used since “day one” and moving to a radically different system on a wholesale basis is real-world doable without major issues.

To me, I’d prefer some fix (and I am versed enough on the angles that encompass our system to really speak knowledgeably) that maintains the overall system we have now, but makes overall improvements and does so without major costs impacts.




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I think a lot of people think that Medicare is free to the consumer.   It's not, there is a monthly payment, usually a deduction from the SS payment for Medicare.   

 

If it were expanded to cover all, then I would expect that those participating would be paying as well.   Nothing is ever really 'free', but I firmly believe everyone needs to have access to health care.   

 

However they do it in China.

On 3/3/2019 at 6:31 AM, Kurtf said:

Several of my friends are British and they tell me their single payer health care system SUCKS. And I know for a fact that the same can be said of the Canadian system. Want a hip replacement???? Be prepared to wait more than a year. And America is fair. EVERYONE has the same opportunity to become a multi millionaire through hard work and entrepreneurship.

Bill Gates didn't start out rich and neither did most of the other multi millionaire business owners in America. Envy and jealousy of their wealth by the ignorant masses is the reason Socialism has such appeal to the young people.

 

 

That's quite a leap there, friend, going from needing a hip replacement to launching a multi-million dollar enterprise.

patient: a hip replacement cost what?  I don't have that kind of money!

doctor:  this is America!  Get off you butt and start a multi-million dollar corporation!

 

And it's not like Mr Gates worked his way up from poverty.

 

 

7 hours ago, new2here said:

I am an American, but still a ways off “retirement” age or being eligible (based on age alone) for any of the traditional US social programs...

That said, I DO support the IDEA of a single payer system... BUT... I am concerned about: a) the costs obviously and b) what does this do/would this do to an individuals choice to “opt out” or want to use an alternative system.

I do believe that things with our health care system are “broken” .... but I don’t really think that scrapping the system we have now - and for the most part have used since “day one” and moving to a radically different system on a wholesale basis is real-world doable without major issues.

To me, I’d prefer some fix (and I am versed enough on the angles that encompass our system to really speak knowledgeably) that maintains the overall system we have now, but makes overall improvements and does so without major costs impacts.




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You better just stick with what you have then.  Sounds like you don't want to disturb the 8 figure healthcare company CEO salaries. Seems that the American Way is worrying about the uber rich over the lives of the poor uninsured. All those millionaire pastor's have done a hell of a job turning so called Christian values upside down.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/rankings-and-ratings/18-of-the-highest-paid-ceos-in-healthcare.html

21 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Even more $$$ flows out. I am always amazed for how little people can be bought. Campaign contributions have about the highest return on investment than almost anything else you could name.

 

Not meant to go off topic, but yes, the money in politics in the US is an obscenely high amount, even excluding the un-noted FAVORS used in buying consent.  US Senators are wealthy people, even the ones who weren't so when they were first elected -- gee, I wonder how that happens.

At the beginning of the actual primaries in 2016 Jeb Bush was reported to have a $330 million war chest.  Well, we know he didn't last long, so where is that $$$ now?  Probably not in the same place as the leftover cash from DT's inauguration (most of which was probably donated in rubles).

 

But back to the topic at hand, and I have to wonder if the powers-that-be have any concept of what a health problem can do to the average US citizen's household economics.  Rick Santorum has a daughter of special medical needs, and he spent just about everything he had (or so they say) in medical care for her, rather than sink into that disgusting Affordable Health Care piece of socialism.  If he didn't have those assets to sell off would he have let her die rather than sacrifice his political creed?

 

 

The government has done so well with the VA. I'm sure they can do just as well with healthcare for the rest of citizens. 

10 hours ago, Credo said:

I think a lot of people think that Medicare is free to the consumer.   It's not, there is a monthly payment, usually a deduction from the SS payment for Medicare. 

Actually it is free for quite a few consumers. I do not know the amount of population who qualify but it would be interesting to see.

 

Folks who make less than the Federal Poverty guideline in income can get free medicare thru state programs.

 

Also note that the folks who get it free are determined by income not savings/assets etc

 

Many folks make less than the guideline off their sole income of SS so they do not pay for medicare

Edited March 5, 20197 yr by mania

I will tell you what, I will come right out and say anyone who can read a story like this and not support single payer is complete scum of the earth to me. People get injured, even have insurance, and as they sit in the hospital bills pile up from not working, kids still have to eat, electricity, water rent still need to be paid, all while racking ip millions in the hospital. 

 

When people are hurt it is a time to heal. How do we not ALL understand with complete certainty that worrying about bills all day and night as you sit in the hospital bed is going to make you ill in and of itself! Your body can't heal properly in that state of mind. 

 

How people can even live with theirselves with what they believe is beyond me. Either that or they have not looked into the issues enough. 

 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/communities/north-county/sd-no-ericson-interview-20170728-story.html

This poll matches the results of most every other poll on the topic. Even in Fox News polls, people overwhelmingly want medicare for all.

 

You have to ask yourself this simple question. Why is the republican party (and to a lesser extent the democratic party) so steadfastly against the will of the people. The answer certainly has nothing to do with the will of the people. It doesn't have to do with the costs of the health care either. It has everything to do with lobbyist money. 

Edited March 5, 20197 yr by jcsmith

7 hours ago, direction BANGKOK said:

I will tell you what, I will come right out and say anyone who can read a story like this and not support single payer is complete scum of the earth to me. People get injured, even have insurance, and as they sit in the hospital bills pile up from not working, kids still have to eat, electricity, water rent still need to be paid, all while racking ip millions in the hospital. 

 

When people are hurt it is a time to heal. How do we not ALL understand with complete certainty that worrying about bills all day and night as you sit in the hospital bed is going to make you ill in and of itself! Your body can't heal properly in that state of mind. 

 

How people can even live with theirselves with what they believe is beyond me. Either that or they have not looked into the issues enough. 

 

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/communities/north-county/sd-no-ericson-interview-20170728-story.html

The other one I read is that 42% of Americans who are diagnosed with cancer are bankrupt within two years. Jeez what a crap country. You can be a positive get up and goer contributing hard working middle class citizen, get cancer, and two years later you are a bankrupt. 

To Boon Mee

the US economy is already BANKRUPT!

Can I keep the Insurance I have now or will I be standing in line with the Illegals to see a doc?

4 hours ago, jcsmith said:

This poll matches the results of most every other poll on the topic. Even in Fox News polls, people overwhelmingly want medicare for all.

 

You have to ask yourself this simple question. Why is the republican party (and to a lesser extent the democratic party) so steadfastly against the will of the people. The answer certainly has nothing to do with the will of the people. It doesn't have to do with the costs of the health care either. It has everything to do with lobbyist money. 

 

"Medicare for all" is typical of what America has become. It's a label, a brand. We can do much better than Medicare for all. Universal healthcare is a right IMO. Pay for it ot of the general budget, charge no premiums and include prescription drug coverage. Pay for it out of the revenues garnered from individuals and corportions and adjust rates as necessary to fully fund.

 

I don't know why this so difficult to achieve unless the goal is not to achieve it.  I take this challange every year or so and I've balanced the budget every time. It's not even very hard and there really aren't that many difficult choices to make.

 

https://www.federalbudgetchallenge.org/pages/overview

(Actually, his reasoning - expertise/experience with a procedure - makes sense, assuming one can afford to pay out of pocket.)

 

Sen. Rand Paul says the free market pushed him to Canada for surgery

 

"I looked for a place that did primarily that type of surgery. A place that actually accepts Americans who pay cash," Paul said in an interview with Wave 3 News in Washington, D.C.. 

 

In Canada, medical care is publicly funded and universally provided through the country's Provincial Ministry of Health, and everyone receives the same base level of care.

 

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/16/rand-paul-says-canada-hernia-surgery-actually-capitalism/2590986002/

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

Can I keep the Insurance I have now or will I be standing in line with the Illegals to see a doc?

 

If you had an Australian like system - which is called Medicare - sure you can.

 

Everyone gets Medicare, no ifs, no buts. People also can choose to get Private Insurance.

 

Firstly there are tax incentives to do so, you get stung an extra few % of tax if you don't take it out as a high income earner, so the firms have 'graciously' developed policies that cost the same as the tax sting but in reality don't give you very much.

 

But despite other extras - government subsidies for private health insurance (you get a 30% rebate from the government for the premium) and incentives for people to get on it (if you join at 30 and remain a member you pay the premiums of a 30 year old all your life), people are leaving it in droves.

 

Why? Because the public system is pretty good for all the important stuff, and costs nothing when you need it. No bankruptcy, no medical debts.

 

Like the US, Australian private insurers charge co-pays (or 'out of pockets' as they are known in Australia). So you can have two people, sitting in the same facility, seeing the same doctor, one paying private premiums and then still some out of pockets, next to a publicly funded patient getting exactly the same treatment.

 

This happened to me once when I went for a procedure. My scammy specialist convinced me to use my private insurance, and I was sitting in the same room as public patients getting the same day procedure. I figured out later he gets a bigger cut.

 

But yeah, you can keep private insurance if you want it. But would I use it for cancer, stroke, heart surgery, any major type of procedure? No way. All the best doctors are in the public system, and I had one of Australia's leading cancer specialists tell me not to use private insurance for seeing her.

 

For elective stuff, where there might be a waiting list, say I need a non-urgent knee replacement, I've done the maths and it is just better to self insure for that stuff and pay out of your own pocket rather than give private insurers a useless premium of a few thousand per family each year and then still pay more above that when you need it.

 

 

Edited March 6, 20197 yr by samran

The way people perceive "free" is the issue. It's free to people who use it, but not free to taxpayers when the percentage of tax they pay goes up. Someone has to pay for it somewhere, the govt doesn't make or generate money, in fact they spend more than they take in, hence the 22 trillion--and climbing, debt they're in. Instead of a single payer healthcare system how about a "govt stop spending until the debt is lower" system.

10 hours ago, samran said:

 

If you had an Australian like system - which is called Medicare - sure you can.

 

Everyone gets Medicare, no ifs, no buts. People also can choose to get Private Insurance.

 

Firstly there are tax incentives to do so, you get stung an extra few % of tax if you don't take it out as a high income earner, so the firms have 'graciously' developed policies that cost the same as the tax sting but in reality don't give you very much.

 

But despite other extras - government subsidies for private health insurance (you get a 30% rebate from the government for the premium) and incentives for people to get on it (if you join at 30 and remain a member you pay the premiums of a 30 year old all your life), people are leaving it in droves.

 

Why? Because the public system is pretty good for all the important stuff, and costs nothing when you need it. No bankruptcy, no medical debts.

 

Like the US, Australian private insurers charge co-pays (or 'out of pockets' as they are known in Australia). So you can have two people, sitting in the same facility, seeing the same doctor, one paying private premiums and then still some out of pockets, next to a publicly funded patient getting exactly the same treatment.

 

This happened to me once when I went for a procedure. My scammy specialist convinced me to use my private insurance, and I was sitting in the same room as public patients getting the same day procedure. I figured out later he gets a bigger cut.

 

But yeah, you can keep private insurance if you want it. But would I use it for cancer, stroke, heart surgery, any major type of procedure? No way. All the best doctors are in the public system, and I had one of Australia's leading cancer specialists tell me not to use private insurance for seeing her.

 

For elective stuff, where there might be a waiting list, say I need a non-urgent knee replacement, I've done the maths and it is just better to self insure for that stuff and pay out of your own pocket rather than give private insurers a useless premium of a few thousand per family each year and then still pay more above that when you need it.

 

 

I'm not qualified to argue specifics but I know money and it has to come from somewhere. One small item in Australia is priced way out of whack such as a pack of smokes. My buddies were paying like $24.00 for a pack. What kind of tax is that? That's a tell tale sign that you folks are being taxed harder than the US.

17 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I'm not qualified to argue specifics but I know money and it has to come from somewhere. One small item in Australia is priced way out of whack such as a pack of smokes. My buddies were paying like $24.00 for a pack. What kind of tax is that? That's a tell tale sign that you folks are being taxed harder than the US.

Not by much, Australia is one of the lower taxes countries in the developed world just a bit above that of the US. But the taxes a bit more targeted and our taxes include our insurance and yours doesn’t. 

 

The cigarette one you gave is an interesting one. If you smoke, the odds are you are going to be a larger burden to the public health system later down the track, so better the person that is smoking pays the tax for their treatment.

 

 

Yes. Follow Canada. It works!

Canadians overwhelmingly would not trade their system for the American system. 

1000% correct my friend!

I'm glad you and your family have had good service with the Canadian health care system and are happy with it. I know three Canadians that are tired of paying the high tax rate and getting less than good care. 

THE high tax rate pays for more than just Medicare. Try Education, public Works, police, firemen, worker safety....

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

A profane flaming post has been removed. 

I would make it a mix of private and medicare. I would also put a cutoff point at $1m per year income and up go private only (personal, not business) and add a flat deduction/copay to everyone earning $40k per year and up starting at $10 a month and graduate it by $10 every $100,000. ($40-$139k is $10, $140k-$239K is $20, etc.) That way there would still be quality doctors that would work in the medicare system. Maybe even make it a requirement to serve 5 years (example) upon graduation from medical school in return you have 50% of your student debt cleared while getting paid to practice medicine. If you do 10 years, you have 100% of your debt cleared. Could be an incentive to stay longer.

Just a few thoughts is all. ????

31 minutes ago, mrwebb8825 said:

I would make it a mix of private and medicare. I would also put a cutoff point at $1m per year income and up go private only (personal, not business) and add a flat deduction/copay to everyone earning $40k per year and up starting at $10 a month and graduate it by $10 every $100,000. ($40-$139k is $10, $140k-$239K is $20, etc.) That way there would still be quality doctors that would work in the medicare system. Maybe even make it a requirement to serve 5 years (example) upon graduation from medical school in return you have 50% of your student debt cleared while getting paid to practice medicine. If you do 10 years, you have 100% of your debt cleared. Could be an incentive to stay longer.

Just a few thoughts is all. ????

 

Medicare is private. The only public aspect of it is the funding.