Krungsi - Mee Tae Dai Savings

[Pib]

On 6/7/2019 at 2:07 PM, Pib said:

 

That's how I read it Bangkok Post news reporting (that can be googled) on the issue and is in-sync with what the Bangkok Bank rep told me a few days ago....

 

Here's a 6 May ThaiVisa thread that talks the bankers and revenue dept agreement.  And a person can also google for the Bangkok Post articles on the subject.

 

[55Jay]

Successful visit to Krungsi branch today.  Shouldn't have tax deducted end of June. Thanks again, Pib, for the heads up on this.

[samtam]

On 6/10/2019 at 1:51 PM, 55Jay said:

Successful visit to Krungsi branch today.  Shouldn't have tax deducted end of June. Thanks again, Pib, for the heads up on this.

Because you have a tax ID number, or because they are not going to deduct because interest income less than THB20k pa?

[samtam]

As others have experienced, getting information from Krungsri is like pulling teeth. Their 1572 number was obviously designed to irritate the hell out of its customers. Finally I got someone to explain that the new tax which they started decducting at the end of May on my MTD was a withholding tax, introduced by Krungsri, (without notifying its customers). I then asked what the net interest was on MTD account, the 1.3% pa less the 15% per month withholding. The girl had no idea what I was talking about. By my calculation, the answer is approx 1.1% (versus 1.3% gross). Annoying as this is, I will live with it, rather than file a tax ID number to reclaim. I think the Thai government deserves my THB1600 pa????

[55Jay]

10 hours ago, samtam said:

Because you have a tax ID number, or because they are not going to deduct because interest income less than THB20k pa?

Both. 

 

Pib did some good leg work at his Krungsi branch, ref Post #18 on Page 2.  I just happened to have a Thai TaxID number from a bank interest tax return I did a few years back, and that did the trick. 

[Pib]

16 hours ago, samtam said:

 I think the Thai government deserves my THB1600 pa????

But me want all my interest....I got beer to buy.  ???? 

 

[Nobody55]

Today I visited my Krungsri branch showing my Thai tax id just obtained, in order to block taxes on my MTD, it  was not accepted but I was asked for the receipt of taxes paid to the RD similar to the one reproduced here, but I do not have this receipt because I do not fill in the tax return every year
Can anyone help me?

[smo]

On 6/4/2019 at 7:21 PM, SiamAndy said:

Thanks for the helpful info Pib. I had the same experience as ScubaScuba3 in that Krungsri told me they could not stop the withholding on a MTD account. They did mention that it was a new policy in their bank, no mention of it being a tax revenue department policy. Can you provide some details on how to get a Thai tax ID? Was it a long process?

 

Being late to the party as usuall... I myself had no idea what that is all about, until I updated my bankbook this week and got a mini-shock, the taxwitholding happened for the very first time  - after a peaceful year and a half - at the end of last month.

 

Went to the bank yesterday afternoon to have the staff told me that yes, it's happening, and it's the doing of the (Thai) IRS. I told them that we customers deserve a notice letter from bank about the change - since the account I opened with them Mee Tae Dai of Krungsri advertised itself as tax-free. The staff simply stone-faced, saying that there's a notice on the IRS website about this and left it at that. Though I appreciated her efforts of making numerous phone calls to god knows whom to answer my inquiry. She did mention repeatedly that this applies to Thai and farangs alike (if my Thai is any good.)

 

I came home and read up on Thaivisa (which should be perused as often as the Daily Post...) Again thanks to Pib for the excellent info as always, I will make the trek to the local tax office this afternoon to begin another exciting adventure in the life of an expat...

[SiamAndy]

6 hours ago, smo said:

 

Being late to the party as usuall... I myself had no idea what that is all about, until I updated my bankbook this week and got a mini-shock, the taxwitholding happened for the very first time  - after a peaceful year and a half - at the end of last month.

 

Went to the bank yesterday afternoon to have the staff told me that yes, it's happening, and it's the doing of the (Thai) IRS. I told them that we customers deserve a notice letter from bank about the change - since the account I opened with them Mee Tae Dai of Krungsri advertised itself as tax-free. The staff simply stone-faced, saying that there's a notice on the IRS website about this and left it at that. Though I appreciated her efforts of making numerous phone calls to god knows whom to answer my inquiry. She did mention repeatedly that this applies to Thai and farangs alike (if my Thai is any good.)

 

I came home and read up on Thaivisa (which should be perused as often as the Daily Post...) Again thanks to Pib for the excellent info as always, I will make the trek to the local tax office this afternoon to begin another exciting adventure in the life of an expat...

Please post an update on your experience with your local Tax Office if you can.

[smo]

Sure - I made the trek to the local Tax office this afternoon as foretold, caveat emptor I have to say that at this point I still don't know which is which, tax office or revenue office? Inside is a big sign on the wall which stated "e-Revenue" plus some thing else in Thai...Anyway, being an outcast, I accidentally ignored the queue ticket machine and sashayed instead to the nearest desk - which laid out a row of small counters - and told the staff that I needed a tax ID.

 

"Tangchat?" (foreigner?) the man asked. Quick glance exchange ensued among those behind desk, I was told to wait sakoo, all eyes finally rested on the lady at the other end of the table. She quickly wrapped up her business there and came over. This one though not speaking, seemed able to listen, read and most importantly, type English, thus cast in the role of the woman of the moment. I gave her my passport, copies of the photo page and the current extension page. She handed me a long form and asked if I could read thai, I shook my head and told her I needed help filling it, so she did it with my help and vice versa.
 
It took just a short while for her to run forms through various machines and my signing here there and everywhere before she returned my passport, accompanied by my spanking new tax ID, lovingly laminated in clear hard plastic (with an elegant, good-luck prone 13-digit number to boot!) and in case you wonder, no charge. When I asked about the "real" tax office where I could apply for refund, she then ran over to another table and grabbed another lady, in this instance the equivalent of the english-speaking hostess that one is accustomed to see in hospital waiting room, ie one who could bear the brunt of english spoken and not bolt away.

 

I explained to her in both English and Thai (to soften the blow) where I would need to go for tax refund. I told her a "friend of mine" - actually a thaivisa member who lives in my district and gave details in a thread how he has gone down this road before - had to go to the Ladprao office for that. She said no, your khet is Bangkapi right? yes, then you go here - and searched around for some blank paper so she could draw a map. Do you take bus (I carried a bag, car-owners don't) she asks? (all in Thai from here) Yes - ok you take 71 and 115 and get off around the corner, see here's the market, here's the police station - yes you can write in Thai I said I'll ask a friend to read it for me - ok, now the next building, big one you'll see, then you go to 3rd floor and get your tax return.

 

Last night I went over my past banking history and found that in 2017 I got some tax held off from old fixed accounts. So now I could wait till Jan 2020 and do both 2017 (going back 3 years for a fine of 200 baht in order to get back less than 1000) and 2019 returns... But then according to my "Thaivisa friend" mentioned earlier, who after several visits to the lad prao office and a few upstairs/downstairs episodes, was ultimately told to do the return online. Which he did successfully via the long something-in-thai 90 form - which at first glance appeared godawful worse than a long 1040 for us yanks - as opposed to the short something-in-thai 10 form. So that's what I will have to investigate next.

 

[how241]

smo,  it sounds like you got lucky and found helpful staff.  When I first went there in 2011,  I had the same experience as you.  In the last few years I was told that the ground floor are not allowed to help or fill-in any forms BUT tell you to go up to the 4th floor.  The 4th floor is full of Govt. workers at their desk and most speak little English.  Having a Thai person with you helps or get one on the phone and pass the phone to the staff.  They will usually help you just so they can get rid of you...haha   Good Luck to us all.

[Pib]

On 6/4/2019 at 7:03 PM, Pib said:

Visited my Krungsri branch today and asked why tax is being withheld from my MTD account since I earn less than Bt20K interest per year.  The rep seemed surprised...looked at my account and interest earned and the first tax withholding for a few hundred baht that occurred a few days ago....and made sure I didn't have multiple accounts where aggregate interest could have been the cause (I only have one account).... and then the rep made a call and talked to her supervisor for more info. 

 

Rep found out if you are classified as a "Thai and a resident" your account record  is coded not to incur a 15% tax withholding until exceeding Bt20K interest earned per year.  But if classified as "foreigner and a resident" with no Thai tax ID number onfile then the 15% tax withholding applies for any amount of interest earned...that is, even when earning less than Bt20K interest per year.  

 

IMPORTANT NOTE: I do not know if this applied only to the MTD account which is a hybrid type fixed account or would even apply to a regular Krungsri savings account....I failed to ask that as the only account I have with Krungsri is the MTD account....I just wanted to stop the tax withholding on that account if allowed...and it was if you have a Thai tax ID number which I do.

 

So, I provided my Thai tax ID number.  I took along my tax ID card and tax office receipts showing the tax number from previous years filings as proof (previous filings for fixed account tax refunds)...and they needed that proof to confirm that was indeed my tax ID number versus a bogus number.  With that proof they recoded my account to not withhold tax on less than Bt20K interest earned per year...like what I've been use to.

 

What they recode is a specific data field in your account record called "Tax Pointer" which has the following 5 possible settings for various types of accounts.  I was recoded from 005 to 001.

 

001 = 0 or 15% which means 0% tax withholding on Bt20K or less interest earned/year OR 15% when over Bt20K interest earned/year. 

002 = 0%

003 = 1%

004 = 10%

005 = 15%

 

I was given a printout of Old Data and New Data reflecting my tax withholding status and as mentioned in now shows I'm coded a 001.   

 

So, hopefully the MTD interest payment coming at the end of June will not incur the 15% tax withholding like the end of May payment did....that will be the absolute proof what they did today stopped the tax withholding. Otherwise, I will need to visit them again.....but hopefully that need will not occur...the Krungsri rep helping me today was very helpful and professional and the supervisor was also involved in making the change.

 

I thought a Tax ID number might be the key before going to the branch because I remember reading on the Bangkok Bank website years ago that providing your Tax ID number can affect your tax withholding status with the bank as in preventing tax withholding in certain cases/for certain kinds of accounts.   This was info in general about tax withholding on bank accounts. Ain't got a clue if that info is still somewhere on their website.  

 

And since I'm unclear if this Krungsri MTD tax withholding issue was just a Krungsri policy change for the MTD account since it's a hybrid type fixed account OR this is a tax revenue department policy change affecting "all" types of accounts....even a regular savings account where you usually get paid interest twice a year in Jun and Dec, this week I'm also going to visit my Bangkok Bank branch to talk this issue.  See what tax status they have for me...do they plan to withhold tax on me since I have multiple regular savings account with them in my name only and joint with the Thai wife.  Since Bangkok Bank pays interest in mid Jun and Dec for regular savings accounts and if such accounts are also affected hopefully I can cut off tax withholding by providing Bangkok Bank my Thai tax ID number.  

 

FYI....your result may vary.

 

 

Yeeeeehaaaaa!   I see monthly interest on my Krungsri MTD account was paid 27 June and no tax withheld.   So, providing my Thai tax ID number did the trick.  Yeeeeeehaaaaaaa!!!!!

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank interest paid....tax withheld on the acct in my name only and the 2 joint accts with Thai wife but not the acct in the Thai wife's name only. So that confirms it for me...farangs are getting taxed but not Thais. TIT.

[avvocato]

On 3/5/2019 at 11:40 AM, Pib said:

Well if they start hitting me with a 15% withholding tax on my 4 year old MTD acct I'll go back to putting by retirement extension of stay money in a higher paying fixed account since I'll need to apply for a tax refund either way.

Hi PIB What kind of accounts does immigration accept as complying with the THB800,000 Retirement (or THB400,000 Marriage) Extension of stay?  I didn't think any type of Fixed Income Account would qualify. Only Regular Savings Passbook accounts. TIA

[Pib]

16 minutes ago, avvocato said:

Hi PIB What kind of accounts does immigration accept as complying with the THB800,000 Retirement (or THB400,000 Marriage) Extension of stay?  I didn't think any type of Fixed Income Account would qualify. Only Regular Savings Passbook accounts. TIA

Any account, regular or fixed savings, where the funds can be "immediately" assessed.  I mean withdraw funds today, right now, immediately, etc.....no requirement to wait X-days/weeks or until the account matures.....just go to the bank and withdraw the funds whenever desired.

 

Even the funds in the great, great majority of fixed savings accounts can be immediately accessed but with a penalty of loss of part or all of interest earned to date...or even closure of the account.  But loss of interest is of no concern to immigration; their only concern is you can immediately access the funds for living costs when required....funds you can't immediately access can't pay today's living costs/bills.

Edited July 1, 2019 by Pib

[avvocato]

On 6/29/2019 at 4:13 AM, Pib said:

Bangkok Bank interest paid....tax withheld on the acct in my name only and the 2 joint accts with Thai wife but not the acct in the Thai wife's name only. So that confirms it for me...farangs are getting taxed but not Thais. TIT.

BBL is the bank I use (SSA and all that). Are you going to try the TIN number thing with them. I'll now need to get one.  The amount with-held is small but worth several beers a couple times a year! I also liked how their employees don't seem to know how their own bank operates.  Oh well.

[Pib]

22 minutes ago, avvocato said:

BBL is the bank I use (SSA and all that). Are you going to try the TIN number thing with them. 

Yeap...hopefully sometime this week....but no rush as the next semi annual interest payment on a regular savings account is not until Dec 2019.

[Pib]

I did go to my Bangkok Bank branch again today regarding the tax withholding on my regular savings accounts.  They were now aware that farangs must provide their Thai tax ID number to avoid a withholding on Bt20K or less interest earned per year.  Apparently they had only been made aware of that fine print last week. So, they happily accepted my Thai tax ID info to prevent further withholding if earning Bt20K or less interest per year just like for a Thai (except Thais do not have to provide their tax ID number).  And the branch also provided a refund in cash...probably because the tax withholding was still less than 24 business hour old.  It all worked out well.

[MartinL]

A couple of years ago , at my local tax office, I tried to get a TIN but was refused because I didn't actually have any Thailand-derived income. They told me I could use the 13-digit Pink Card ID number instead. Also, I'm sure I read, somewhere, that the Pink Card number can be used in place of a TIN.

 

That would seem to be in line with a paragraph at the top of this link    https://www.rd.go.th/publish/21987.0.html         

which says:-

 

" ... a taxpayer who is an individual or a payer of income who is an individual is not required to apply for a TIN if he has and uses a personal identification number (PIN) in accordance with the civilian registration law. He can use his PIN instead of TIN for tax return filing purposes".

 

The Pink Card number is issued in accordance with civilian registration law (AFAIK) so would seem to satisfy this. I wonder whether the PC No. would be acceptable at the bank to prevent further withholding tax. 

 

When I went to my bank (Bangkok Bank) last year with a renewed passport to update account details, I tried to get my PC use as ID document but they 'couldn't' do it, probably because the account was already registered to a passport.

 

Anybody have any knowledge or experience of using the Pink Card number for TIN purposes?

[Pib]

3 hours ago, MartinL said:

A couple of years ago , at my local tax office, I tried to get a TIN but was refused because I didn't actually have any Thailand-derived income. They told me I could use the 13-digit Pink Card ID number instead. Also, I'm sure I read, somewhere, that the Pink Card number can be used in place of a TIN.

 

That would seem to be in line with a paragraph at the top of this link    https://www.rd.go.th/publish/21987.0.html         

which says:-

 

" ... a taxpayer who is an individual or a payer of income who is an individual is not required to apply for a TIN if he has and uses a personal identification number (PIN) in accordance with the civilian registration law. He can use his PIN instead of TIN for tax return filing purposes".

 

The Pink Card number is issued in accordance with civilian registration law (AFAIK) so would seem to satisfy this. I wonder whether the PC No. would be acceptable at the bank to prevent further withholding tax. 

 

When I went to my bank (Bangkok Bank) last year with a renewed passport to update account details, I tried to get my PC use as ID document but they 'couldn't' do it, probably because the account was already registered to a passport.

 

Anybody have any knowledge or experience of using the Pink Card number for TIN purposes?

I expect the tax PIN they are talking about is "not" a person's ID card number.  And then that link you gave goes on to say that if a person does not have a tax PIN then he must have a TIN...and the chart in the link implies a farang would not have a PIN and therefore needs a TIN.

[EricTh]

I went to both Bangkok Bank and Krungsri and the officers were as confused as us.

 

After the officers from both banks frantically called various depts, some with misleading answers, I got the real answer.

 

Starting from 2019, all savings account must be tax deducted regardless of how much interest you earned unless we report our tax id with the banks and sign a form.

 

In order to report the tax id, you must provide proof from the revenue department with a tax id card or a cheque with tax id from them with your name on it.

 

It's a new policy that started this year to close loopholes...

 

For those tax which have already been deducted from our savings before we reported our tax id to the bank, can we claim back from revenue dept next year?

Edited August 22, 2019 by EricTh

[Pib]

Yes...you can claim it back next year.