I imagine the solution involves giving a big backhander somewhere

Politicians will not put a stop to any corruption that affects them in a negative way, the only sort of corruption that would end would need to be something that does not affect the politicians income stream.

6 hours ago, Lupatria said:

It works as well like the tree-shaped air freshener they hang on their bicycle handlebar. 

 

or the ashtray on their motorbike.

5 hours ago, nickstav said:

Every country has corruption to a greater or lesser degree. All say they want to fight corruption, yet it persists. Best thing is to learn to live with it, expose it when you can, and wait for the next manifestation. Bleak outlook huh? 

Yes, make the corruption work for you, it's always going to be there.

I will organize a fundraising against corruption...

5 minutes ago, MekkOne said:

I will organize a fundraising against corruption...

Allow me to donate 20,000 stud coins.

Well, last time Yingluck had her photo taken with a very big "Stop Corruption" sign. She subsequently announced several times that there was no corruption in her government.

 

Worked for her!

41 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Well, last time Yingluck had her photo taken with a very big "Stop Corruption" sign. She subsequently announced several times that there was no corruption in her government.

 

Worked for her!

Probably ranked alongside Prayut declaring victory over corruption as recent as September last year or Ahbisit signalling zero tolerance for corruption when he took power. See every leader do this song and dance routine. No cherry picking mate.

The problem as I see it is politicians want to stop other peoples corruption and not their own. ie. The corruption that costs me needs to be stopped, corrupt that benefits me, not a problem. 

15 hours ago, nickstav said:

Every country has corruption to a greater or lesser degree. All say they want to fight corruption, yet it persists. Best thing is to learn to live with it, expose it when you can, and wait for the next manifestation. Bleak outlook huh? 

Your post is the most practical one on the topic so far. It will never be stamped out - it can't be - but a free press and an informed citizenry seems to be the way to go.

17 hours ago, YetAnother said:

first the 'people' must be educated on the costs of corruption and how it affects them

The "people" already know the price of corruption.

My wife carries pink envelopes for that very purpose in order to get the civil service to do anything.

And the reason is that it has been a part of Asian society for millenium.

Are these newbies going to stop it? NO.

Because the only way they got to be where they are is through corruption. (Same as any politician anywhere in the world)

It is all platitudes. Not one political party if elected will change things. Not one iota.

 My wife asked me who to elect. I said I will talk to her about everything except who to vote for.

She said whoever I vote for, they become rich, rich. Why do I vote?

 So I relented, I told her to vote for anyone except the military. I do that anyway she says

41 minutes ago, baboon said:

Your post is the most practical one on the topic so far. It will never be stamped out - it can't be - but a free press and an informed citizenry seems to be the way to go.

I agree. But in a total "corrupt" society such as Thailand, where it is not only accepted but expected, where do you start.

The police and military at a basic level are woefully underpaid. So given a token power of authority, they do what every uniformed person does. Accept envelopes.

The civil service does it easier, they need not accost someone, they accept the graft to provide every basic service.

"A free press". That left me a bit gob smacked. I can never imagine a free press in Thailand, the flimsy rules mean you can very easily go away for a long time.(detention)

"Informed citizens" Sorry, but this was tongue in cheek by you. Have you ever been to a Thai school?

That has been my most deflating experiences so far. I keep getting invited, I keep being disillusioned.

It will take a lot more than platitudes to change a society that has ingrained corruption from top to bottom.

 

Tracking bracelets and wristbands. That seems to be the consensus for controlling illegal foreigners. I bet it will work just the same....

2 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

I agree. But in a total "corrupt" society such as Thailand, where it is not only accepted but expected, where do you start.

The police and military at a basic level are woefully underpaid. So given a token power of authority, they do what every uniformed person does. Accept envelopes.

The civil service does it easier, they need not accost someone, they accept the graft to provide every basic service.

"A free press". That left me a bit gob smacked. I can never imagine a free press in Thailand, the flimsy rules mean you can very easily go away for a long time.(detention)

"Informed citizens" Sorry, but this was tongue in cheek by you. Have you ever been to a Thai school?

That has been my most deflating experiences so far. I keep getting invited, I keep being disillusioned.

It will take a lot more than platitudes to change a society that has ingrained corruption from top to bottom.

 

A very good post.

 

The fact is that any country operating an unabashed patron/client system-where the ultimate loyalties lie in a personalised relationship between the two (as Thailand does)-corruption cannot be controlled in any meaningful way.

 

You would have to replace  that system with one where loyalties are switched to a more impersonal "state"-the 'res publica'-and that is what Thailand with its fuedal clans and baronies can never do.

 

The Thai can be as patriotic as they like but in the sharing of power/money-there is no such thing as "Thailand" only the personal loyalties of those in power.

 

The same problem afflicted Republican Rome and was only marginally controlled when an Imperial figure became the chief source of patronage.

 

One could also argue that it took a long time in the West (16th-17th centuries) for the concept of the nation state (with its more impersonal loyalties) to emerge and that was substantially assisted by the introduction of a new economic and religious system (Protestantism)

 

It was fought against,tooth and nail,at the time..

 

 

Edited March 7, 20197 yr by Odysseus123

20 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

A very good post.

 

The fact is that any country operating an unabashed patron/client system-where the ultimate loyalties lie in a personalised relationship between the two (as Thailand does)-corrupion cannot be controlled in any meaningful way.

 

You would have to replace  that system with one where loyalties are switched to a more impersonal "state"-the 'res publica'-and that is what Thailand with its fuedal clans and baronies can never do.

 

The Thai can be as patriotic as they like but in the sharing of power/money-there is no such thing as "Thailand" only the personal loyalties of those in power.

 

The same problem afflicted Republican Rome and was only marginally controlled when an Imperial figure became the chief source of patronage.

 

One could also argue that it took a long time in the West (16th-17th centuries) for the concept of the nation state (with its more impersonal loyalties) to emerge and that was substantially assisted by the introduction of a new economic system and religious system (Protestantism)

 

It was fought against,tooth and nail,at the time..

 

 

I agree. I judge the movement of feelings by my Thai wife.

She is very "canny".

She believes that Thai society will still be controlled by military and police and no matter who is elected, nothing will change.

 To quote her. "Who I vote for become rich, why I vote for them".

There is no solution until the people are allowed to become educated. And trust me. that is not happening to the majority of the population.

Thai poor people are not allowed to become educated. The desire to learn is quickly choked.

They dumb down. "They" being the "system". This is supposed to produce a compliant society. 

 But all the poor are unhappy, and no matter who gets in, the majority of Thai people - the poor will

still be totally screwed. And no matter who is voted in, nothing will change.

This despite these poor people grow all the food. Land rich, extremely poor.

The rural people(the majority of Thai population) are unhappy. But the politicians that represent them are corrupt scum.

1 hour ago, Prissana Pescud said:

I agree. I judge the movement of feelings by my Thai wife.

She is very "canny".

She believes that Thai society will still be controlled by military and police and no matter who is elected, nothing will change.

 To quote her. "Who I vote for become rich, why I vote for them".

There is no solution until the people are allowed to become educated. And trust me. that is not happening to the majority of the population.

Thai poor people are not allowed to become educated. The desire to learn is quickly choked.

They dumb down. "They" being the "system". This is supposed to produce a compliant society. 

 But all the poor are unhappy, and no matter who gets in, the majority of Thai people - the poor will

still be totally screwed. And no matter who is voted in, nothing will change.

This despite these poor people grow all the food. Land rich, extremely poor.

The rural people(the majority of Thai population) are unhappy. But the politicians that represent them are corrupt scum.

Yes,

 

There would have to be at least two generations of rather rambunctious "democracy" for some sort of stability to emerge-replacing the 'Army with a State' that Thailand has now.

 

This is not the first country to have an Army with a state-one could describe Germany between 1871 and 1945 as having precisely the same thing-democracy was either a very slender reed or totally non existent.

 

My wife surprised me because she has always been loyal to her family and Thai-er than Thai on occassion..still this was the first time she has ever proposed to emigrate to my home country.Which we did.

 

When I asked her "why" as it is quite a big change at 52,she replied-"Because there is no future here.." 

They just ask for it to stop, but they benefit, so it never becomes a serious effort 

Edited March 8, 20197 yr by Redline

Good luck with that.

 

Corruption is built into their DNA. It’s how things get done here. Thailand can’t function without it.

I like the Chinese method, execute them

On 3/8/2019 at 4:57 AM, Odysseus123 said:

Yes,

 

There would have to be at least two generations of rather rambunctious "democracy" for some sort of stability to emerge-replacing the 'Army with a State' that Thailand has now.

 

This is not the first country to have an Army with a state-one could describe Germany between 1871 and 1945 as having precisely the same thing-democracy was either a very slender reed or totally non existent.

 

My wife surprised me because she has always been loyal to her family and Thai-er than Thai on occassion..still this was the first time she has ever proposed to emigrate to my home country.Which we did.

 

When I asked her "why" as it is quite a big change at 52,she replied-"Because there is no future here.." 

It is a sad reflection that your wife and you left Thailand for a better life in the west.

I am now on almost friendly terms with the provincial immigration authorities here. (they take no bribes, at least not from me)

But they keep on asking why my wife and I live here. So they understand too, that life in the west has a potentially better opportunity outcome.

Because I live in a tiny rural village, I am not exposed to constant corruption, except for chanote from the land office.

Even that stopped when my wife bought the land of her brother last month. I nearly choked on my Leo when she told me. I not pay the bribe.

8 hours ago, Prissana Pescud said:

It is a sad reflection that your wife and you left Thailand for a better life in the west.

I am now on almost friendly terms with the provincial immigration authorities here. (they take no bribes, at least not from me)

But they keep on asking why my wife and I live here. So they understand too, that life in the west has a potentially better opportunity outcome.

Because I live in a tiny rural village, I am not exposed to constant corruption, except for chanote from the land office.

Even that stopped when my wife bought the land of her brother last month. I nearly choked on my Leo when she told me. I not pay the bribe.

Thank you for the courteous and thoughtful conversation!

 

For me it was a "no-brainer" as I was desperately ill with cancer and needed to return to my home country for treatment (I had not burned any bridges there) and that move was facilitated by both Thai doctors and Thai immigration who were excellent as was my home country in return with my wife.

 

Like you I lived in a small village and in no way was I impeded by corruption per se as I did not feel targetable-rather I became a sort of village mascot-and even the local abbot turned up to bless us on our way..

 

My wife was often asked."Why doesn't the farang take you to his country?life is better there."

 

I felt a growing sense of desperation with the poorer Thai-that there was no breaking the endless cycle....brief glimpses of more political freedom only to have the door shut firmly in their faces on a regular basis...

 

Here is the local abbot-Lassamee,a most remarkable man..

 

 

23 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Thank you for the courteous and thoughtful conversation!

 

For me it was a "no-brainer" as I was desperately ill with cancer and needed to return to my home country for treatment (I had not burned any bridges there) and that move was facilitated by both Thai doctors and Thai immigration who were excellent as was my home country in return with my wife.

 

Like you I lived in a small village and in no way was I impeded by corruption per se as I did not feel targetable-rather I became a sort of village mascot-and even the local abbot turned up to bless us on our way..

 

My wife was often asked."Why doesn't the farang take you to his country?life is better there."

 

I felt a growing sense of desperation with the poorer Thai-that there was no breaking the endless cycle....brief glimpses of more political freedom only to have the door shut firmly in their faces on a regular basis...

 

Here is the local abbot-Lassamee,a most remarkable man..

 

 

I suspect we should not have a mutual admire post here. But I know where you are coming from.

Unlike many anti Thai posters. 

One thing that many posters on this site do not realise is that in rural communities, the monks and abbots are very good honest men.

And how the temple is the glue that holds the community together. And how the children of the community serve a minimum of 3 months in the wat.

I wish you well in you battle against the big "c". It is a lousy disease and I hope you are steadfast to fight it. All the best mate

How a law abiding citizen thinks corruption in the government can be resolved.  Raise all gov't salaries across the board.  Introduce new laws that say any person found complicit in taking bribes or any other form of corruption with be stripped of their position and benefits, will face court and sentenced to lengthy goal terms with a minimum sentence of 10 years.