Thehedonist Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hi, do you people that live in L.O.S think that you are ever really accepted there by the locals, people in general ? I have been several times all over LOS and somehow allways feel that I am only tolerated as I am spending money. That is not knocking the place, I love the climate, food and its many other attractions. I do not get this feeling in other countries ! constructive replys wellcome ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I have been several times all over LOS and somehow allways feel that I am only tolerated as I am spending money. I do no feel this way in Thailand. I do not get this feeling in other countries ! Do not torture yourself. Go to other countries. Go to a country where you feel at ease and where you can enjoy your holiday. -- Maestro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulUSA302 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I think you get that feeling because of the spin that goes out to us and to the people of Thailand. It is why you are charged more for the same service. It is thought that you have more, can afford more and should be charged more and you are expected to spend your money. Just as I had expectations as to what I would find when I visited Thailand for the first time... Reality proved my expectations to be fully off the mark. But when I am in Thailand I see many Farang throwing around their money and tipping like they print their own money. What is a Thai to think??? Hi, do you people that live in L.O.S think that you are ever really accepted there by the locals, people in general ?I have been several times all over LOS and somehow allways feel that I am only tolerated as I am spending money. That is not knocking the place, I love the climate, food and its many other attractions. I do not get this feeling in other countries ! constructive replys wellcome ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tutsiwarrior Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Thailand ain't no better or worse than most SE Asian places where if there is no money, dere ain't no honey...however, in my personal experience I've put a lot ob dough into my wife's family in an effort to make things better fer de kids an' the adults have benefitted as well. I've been told by de wife that I don't haveta work no more as the family will look after me...never expected that, but there you are... hard to generalise dese tings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tourleadersi Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 People who walk around like a victim are often victimised. By that reasoning, if you look for people treating you like an outsider, you will find them. To be honest, I would feel uncomfortable with anyhing else. I mean, most westerners, look, act, dress, work, think, speak and eat differently to the Thai norm, how can you possibly be anything else than an outsider? One of the things I like about Thai culture is their lack of political correctness (sometimes it is too extreme, but as a general rule) in the fact that they are happy to point out that we are all different. Look at what is happening in the UK. We officially accept all nationalities with open arms, then simmer away because they are not British enough. We are all different, and it is only once we can accept this is it possible for our curiousity to expand into exploring the differences. Aside from the occassional price loading (you are most likely a lot richer than they are, so it shouldn't be too hard to live with) what actual major discrimination goes on here in Thailand? Work wise westerners seem to get paid a lot more here in the LOS, and we do tend to live outside the norms of their culture. Is it any wonder they treat us differently? It is such a bizarre situation really. In our home nations we complain about immigrants not trying to fit in, then we come here and complain that the Thais don't accept us for who we are. Answers on a postcard welcome.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Hi, do you people that live in L.O.S think that you are ever really accepted there by the locals, people in general ?I have been several times all over LOS and somehow allways feel that I am only tolerated as I am spending money. That is not knocking the place, I love the climate, food and its many other attractions. I do not get this feeling in other countries ! constructive replys wellcome ! ________________________________________________________________ I think there is a lot of truth in what your saying. You have practical experience and knowledge so "forewarned is forearmed." I have a friend that's lived in Thailand since 1964. His first rule of conduct is to never, ever, ever take a Thai seriously. I guess it's open to interpretation. I didn't get at all that your feeling tortured just curious and rightfully so. My advice is to consider Thailand your playground. Always be patient, respectful (even when it doesn't appear warranted) and you will come out on top. Pay what is asked, within reason of course. Bartering is always fun if you do it with a smile. My wife used to say that the first person to loose their temper in an argument/discussion would be the looser, even if you were right. Hummm, mabey. No matter how you slice it, in my opinion,it's harder to find a nicer place to play than Thailand. At any price. Remember don't take them seriously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwertz Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Amen to that pepe, in nearly 30 years of visiting LOS I've never had a problem with Thais that I couldn't handle with the same recipe as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maizefarmer Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 As someone else has quite rightly has observed - there is a lot of "spin" on this forum (and in general), about how people percieve Thai's view them in Thailand). Most of it is inaccurate, reflecting their own perceptions and (mis)understanding of this lovely country (the "loss of face" concept been most often misunderstood idea) Thai's are no different from you or me in their outlook and attitudes to foreigners i.e. you will come across a whole range of opinions and attitudes, just as you would do in any other country, or indeed your own country. So are we accepted by the locals - yes & no - just as it would apply in your own country. In my opinion (note - my opinion), the culture thing is over-hyped - it is nothing more complicated than first impression - which forms partly as a result of the cirucmstances in which you find yourself dealing with/communicating with a Thai - and how well the communication goes. MF Hi, do you people that live in L.O.S think that you are ever really accepted there by the locals, people in general ?I have been several times all over LOS and somehow allways feel that I am only tolerated as I am spending money. That is not knocking the place, I love the climate, food and its many other attractions. I do not get this feeling in other countries ! constructive replys wellcome ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry57 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 I have been several times all over LOS and somehow allways feel that I am only tolerated as I am spending money. I do no feel this way in Thailand. I do not get this feeling in other countries ! Do not torture yourself. Go to other countries. Go to a country where you feel at ease and where you can enjoy your holiday. -- Maestro well that is the perfect answer isn't it maestro, and thats all these people need to do. " leave town before sundown brown." i mean whats the bleeding point of being here if you feel like this, as its a no brainer. i recon its the bad vibes these people put out that causes them there imagined grief. it would not matter if they were in " timbuktu", they would still feel like this, so its bye bye baby as far as im concerned. anyway maestro, im glad you said that mate, as i get in trouble if i throw up that lovely bit of logic up. the good reverand, terence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry57 Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 People who walk around like a victim are often victimised. By that reasoning, if you look for people treating you like an outsider, you will find them. To be honest, I would feel uncomfortable with anyhing else. I mean, most westerners, look, act, dress, work, think, speak and eat differently to the Thai norm, how can you possibly be anything else than an outsider? One of the things I like about Thai culture is their lack of political correctness (sometimes it is too extreme, but as a general rule) in the fact that they are happy to point out that we are all different. Look at what is happening in the UK. We officially accept all nationalities with open arms, then simmer away because they are not British enough. We are all different, and it is only once we can accept this is it possible for our curiousity to expand into exploring the differences.Aside from the occassional price loading (you are most likely a lot richer than they are, so it shouldn't be too hard to live with) what actual major discrimination goes on here in Thailand? Work wise westerners seem to get paid a lot more here in the LOS, and we do tend to live outside the norms of their culture. Is it any wonder they treat us differently? It is such a bizarre situation really. In our home nations we complain about immigrants not trying to fit in, then we come here and complain that the Thais don't accept us for who we are. Answers on a postcard welcome.... there's only one thing id like to add to that tour, and that is, its only the small minority that come here and complain, but i must tell you that if i meet a farang who complains about los, i run a mile from him as i think, man you are a looser. the reverand terence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumnien Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 "I feel like Thai people never really accepted me", "I feel like my daddy never really accepted me for who I really was". These are heart-wrnching emotions. I suggest you get your daddy and 65 million Thai people to sit in a circle with you in the middle chanting "we love you, we love you, you are amazing!" Then shed some tears and hug each one of them, pay the therapist and move on with your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 In our home nations we complain about immigrants not trying to fit in, then we come here and complain that the Thais don't accept us for who we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 As someone else has quite rightly has observed - there is a lot of "spin" on this forum (and in general), about how people percieve Thai's view them in Thailand). Most of it is inaccurate, reflecting their own perceptions and (mis)understanding of this lovely country (the "loss of face" concept been most often misunderstood idea) Thai's are no different from you or me in their outlook and attitudes to foreigners i.e. you will come across a whole range of opinions and attitudes, just as you would do in any other country, or indeed your own country. So are we accepted by the locals - yes & no - just as it would apply in your own country. In my opinion (note - my opinion), the culture thing is over-hyped - it is nothing more complicated than first impression - which forms partly as a result of the cirucmstances in which you find yourself dealing with/communicating with a Thai - and how well the communication goes. MF Hi, do you people that live in L.O.S think that you are ever really accepted there by the locals, people in general ?I have been several times all over LOS and somehow allways feel that I am only tolerated as I am spending money. That is not knocking the place, I love the climate, food and its many other attractions. I do not get this feeling in other countries ! constructive replys wellcome ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmart Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 "I feel like Thai people never really accepted me", "I feel like my daddy never really accepted me for who I really was". These are heart-wrnching emotions. I suggest you get your daddy and 65 million Thai people to sit in a circle with you in the middle chanting "we love you, we love you, you are amazing!" Then shed some tears and hug each one of them, pay the therapist and move on with your life. Let's have a big group hug and sing "Kumbaya My Lord". Some real sensitive souls on here, eh? Perhaps LOS isn't for you, after all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe' Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 "I feel like Thai people never really accepted me", "I feel like my daddy never really accepted me for who I really was". These are heart-wrnching emotions. I suggest you get your daddy and 65 million Thai people to sit in a circle with you in the middle chanting "we love you, we love you, you are amazing!" Then shed some tears and hug each one of them, pay the therapist and move on with your life. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm sure everything will be just fine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hi, do you people that live in L.O.S think that you are ever really accepted there by the locals, people in general ?I have been several times all over LOS and somehow allways feel that I am only tolerated as I am spending money. That is not knocking the place, I love the climate, food and its many other attractions. I do not get this feeling in other countries ! constructive replys wellcome ! Depends on where and with who you are. I have the same feeling with Isaan people. But I love the southeners. Always in the south I am not able to spend one baht, always get invited and they try every trick to not let me pay....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austhaied Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hi, do you people that live in L.O.S think that you are ever really accepted there by the locals, people in general ?I have been several times all over LOS and somehow allways feel that I am only tolerated as I am spending money. That is not knocking the place, I love the climate, food and its many other attractions. I do not get this feeling in other countries ! constructive replys wellcome ! Laugh and the whole world laughs with you, cry and you cry alone... Next time you feel that way try a smile or be nice to them and watch very carefully for the reaction, you may just be surprised... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiGoon Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 In our home nations we complain about immigrants not trying to fit in, then we come here and complain that the Thais don't accept us for who we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayjayjayjay Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 "I feel like Thai people never really accepted me", "I feel like my daddy never really accepted me for who I really was". These are heart-wrnching emotions. I suggest you get your daddy and 65 million Thai people to sit in a circle with you in the middle chanting "we love you, we love you, you are amazing!" Then shed some tears and hug each one of them, pay the therapist and move on with your life. Let's have a big group hug and sing "Kumbaya My Lord". Some real sensitive souls on here, eh? Perhaps LOS isn't for you, after all? "Kumbaya My Lord" ............ now that brings back some scary memories!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeddah Jo Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Been here nearly four years now and very, rarely let anything get under my skin. But yesterday was one of those days, I don't know why just riled me a little bit. I fancied some mango, sticky rice, and cream so I crossed the road and asked the street vendor in very passable Thai, how much. She seemed totally shocked by the presence of a farang and the fact he could speak Thai, turned around to a local female moto-sai driver who barked out in coarse English. 1 Mango, 50 baht! Now I know in my local market these are only 30 baht, and ok so it is only 20 baht (which is still 30p UK money and I do live here!), and it may have been the highest quality mango available but anyway, I just turned on my heel without saying anything, and drove off. What got on my nerves was, I tried to ask politefully as possible in Thai, the girl freaked out, turned to ask a friend how much should she charge the farang. Then they picked a price out of their a*se to see if I would go with it. I frequently pay farang prices with a smile and without batting an eye-lid, but that moto-sai b*tch just ticked me off I tried to speak Thai, and she replied in English which I regard as fairly rude anyway. How do they know I speak English? Anyway if anyone does pay 50baht for 1 mango and some sticky rice I guess I just made complete twonk of myself. JJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meemiathai Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Why did you not try to use your passable thai to bargain it to an appropriate price? This usually works. And is what the locals do. And to reply to you in English is not as rude as you might think. Not everyone in the world received the same education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Why did you not try to use your passable thai to bargain it to an appropriate price? This usually works. And is what the locals do.And to reply to you in English is not as rude as you might think. Not everyone in the world received the same education. I would do and did already the same. 50 Baht is a joke, and I do not bargain about food prices, my Thai wife as well does not do it. As well I saw my wife complete freaking out when she asks for a price, they see me and make some crazy high prices. Can't understand everything she tells, but what I understand is something like "you are lower than animals, complete fake without any proudy, people like you are the reason why Thailand is going down and why thai people have a bad reputation, blablabla" Actually every problem worldwide will be blamed on that person who try to overcharge 20 Baht.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) It used to be the case that as a foreigner in Thailand you automatically received respect from pretty much every Thai person you met. That, thankfully, is no longer the case, Thais have soon got caught on to the behavior of many of the Farangs that wash up in Thailand. If Farangs are no longer respected in the way they where, they only have themselves to thank. But as I say, I think this change from universal respect is a good thing, its good for the Thais and its good for foreigners who play the game by the rules. As for how can you be assured of acceptance as an individual foreigner in Thailand? Well I don't think you can assure acceptance in all situations and from all Thais, that's never going to happen. But you can help things along a bit. The absolute top Tip - Manners and Conduct Behave according to the best manners and behavior of your own culture. We hear a lot about Thai manners and culture and many a bar stool guide will give you a string of do's and don'ts but what you find out eventually is 'most of what you are told about Thai manners and culture is not entirely correct, it is the projection of manners and values that are perhaps more myth than reality'. Follow the good manners and good conduct that you know and that fits you best - Your own. Thais and everyone else around you can see good manners and good conduct. Thais put an enormous store in good manners, even if they don't always follow these themselves. They will be very much more inclined to accept you if you show yourself to have good manners and good conduct. Tip Two Learn Thai Learning Thai will open doors you perhaps never even knew where there. Language is the big key to understanding situations (and being able to control them), it is a huge window into the culture and it is a clear sign that you want to take part and fit into Thailand. I honestly do not think it is possible to understand a culture without learning the language. All the emphasis and stressing of values and beliefs is there in the language and the way the language is used. Understanding the difference between what is said and how it is said really does help you understand what is actually going on around you, and how you can relate to the people better. I put language after manners and conduct because the most respected and accepted foreigner I knew in Thailand, hardly spoke Thai, but he had great manners and conduct. Oh and don't just learn Thai, learn the right Thai. One misused word can destroy you! I've actually witnessed a guy ruin his reputation by spouting what he thought was a 'witty remark' ( a bit of bar Thai) in the wrong setting. Tip Three Choose Your Company Wisely Choosing the right company is hugely important if you want to be accepted and respected. Thailand is a class ridden society. You don't have to seek the company of the hi-so's, I wouldn't recommend it, but neither do you have to seek your friends at the other end of the spectrum. Tip FourParticipate Get involved with people, go out of your way to talk to people (language opens that door) and be seen as someone who is living in Thailand, not someone who is living behind a 2.5 meter high wall with broken glass on the edges. Edited March 1, 2007 by GuestHouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 In our home nations we complain about immigrants not trying to fit in, then we come here and complain that the Thais don't accept us for who we are. I agree entirely and certainly not a 'Strawman' argument. But I like the use of the term 'Strawman', it kind of hints there is no basis in the argument, and then lets itself down by failing to provide a half decent counter argument. The evidence of the posts on TV says it all, we have frequent posts from people complaining about foreigners taking their country over, not fitting in etc, from people who are in Thailand/plan to be in Thailand. The OPs question is fully not in that bunch, he is asking about how to be accepted... I think asking is a pretty good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acquiesce Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 where if there is no money, dere ain't no honey... Not the case for everyone tutsi my friend, like you say, hard to generalise dese tings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garro Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 It used to be the case that as a foreigner in Thailand you automatically received respect from pretty much every Thai person you met. That, thankfully, is no longer the case, Thais have soon got caught on to the behavior of many of the Farangs that wash up in Thailand. If Farangs are no longer respected in the way they where, they only have themselves to thank. But as I say, I think this change from universal respect is a good thing, its good for the Thais and its good for foreigners who play the game by the rules. As for how can you be assured of acceptance as an individual foreigner in Thailand? Well I don't think you can assure acceptance in all situations and from all Thais, that's never going to happen. But you can help things along a bit. The absolute top Tip - Manners and Conduct I can offer is behave according to the best manners and behavior of your own culture. We hear a lot about Thai manners and culture and many a bar stool guide will give you a string of do's and don'ts but what you find out eventually is 'most of what you are told about Thai manners and culture is not entirely correct, it is the projection of manners and values that are perhaps more myth than reality'. Follow the good manners and good conduct that you know and that fits you best - Your own. Thais and everyone else around you can see good manners and good conduct. Thais put an enormous store in good manners, even if they don't always follow these themselves. They will be very much more inclined to accept you if you show yourself to have good manners and good conduct. Tip Two Learn Thai Learning Thai will open doors you perhaps never even knew where there. Language is the big key to understanding situations (and being able to control them), it is a huge window into the culture and it is a clear sign that you want to take part and fit into Thailand. I honestly do not think it is possible to understand a culture without learning the language. All the emphasis and stressing of values and beliefs is there in the language and the way the language is used. Understanding the difference between what is said and how it is said really does help you understand what is actually going on around you, and how you can relate to the people better. I put language after manners and conduct because the most respected and accepted foreigner I knew in Thailand, hardly spoke Thai, but he had great manners and conduct. Oh and don't just learn Thai, learn the right Thai. One misused word can destroy you! I've actually witnessed a guy ruin his reputation by spouting what he thought was a 'witty remark' ( a bit of bar Thai) in the wrong setting. Tip Three Choose Your Company Wisely Choosing the right company is hugely important if you want to be accepted and respected. Thailand is a class ridden society. You don't have to seek the company of the hi-so's, I wouldn't recommend it, but neither do you have to seek your friends at the other end of the spectrum. Tip FourParticipate Get involved with people, go out of your way to talk to people (language opens that door) and be seen as someone who is living in Thailand, not someone who is living behind a 2.5 meter high wall with broken glass on the edges. Guesthouse, I think that this is a well thought out post and would agree with much that you have said. My only problem is with your tip three, maybe I am misunderstanding it. I have friends from the different strata of society in Thailand and have never found this to have any affect on being accepted and respected. I often have people who would be considred low-so drop by to learn English or have a chat. I also get regular visits by the local monk, teachers and police. I have never chosen my friends dependent on their class/status and I wouldn't do so no matter where I live. Otherwise a good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartecosse Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 It used to be the case that as a foreigner in Thailand you automatically received respect from pretty much every Thai person you met. That, thankfully, is no longer the case, Thais have soon got caught on to the behavior of many of the Farangs that wash up in Thailand. .................................... just reading the post there and the "wash up" really struck home its amazing the amount of "unsavoury", for a better word, of westerners that end up here. People that literally are the dregs of western society that you would cross the street in the west to avoind are now your neighbours in some cases i actually feel ashamed sometimes when lookign at the actions of weterners, whether they be short or long term tourists, its no wonder that some thais have such low "perceptions" of westerners, is it any wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaidleHands Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Tip Three Choose Your Company Wisely Choosing the right company is hugely important if you want to be accepted and respected. Thailand is a class ridden society. You don't have to seek the company of the hi-so's, I wouldn't recommend it, but neither do you have to seek your friends at the other end of the spectrum. Truer words were never spoken nor written. Too many foreigners wash up on these shores with the belief that an egalitarian value system is univerally approriate. And that plays back into lanugage. Learn the speech of the class you want to be asociated with and learn how they deal with the lower social orders. In class-based societies people are reassured rather than offended by receiving cues that reinforce social standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garro Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Tip Three Choose Your Company WiselyChoosing the right company is hugely important if you want to be accepted and respected. Thailand is a class ridden society. You don't have to seek the company of the hi-so's, I wouldn't recommend it, but neither do you have to seek your friends at the other end of the spectrum. Truer words were never spoken nor written. Too many foreigners wash up on these shores with the belief that an egalitarian value system is univerally approriate. And that plays back into lanugage. Learn the speech of the class you want to be asociated with and learn how they deal with the lower social orders. In class-based societies people are reassured rather than offended by receiving cues that reinforce social standing. This has not been my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffery Stanthorpe Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 ________________________________________________________________My wife used to say that the first person to loose their temper in an argument/discussion would be the looser, even if you were right. Hummm, mabey. Remember don't take them seriously... . How about if that person ( thai ) looses their temper and shoots you bewteen your eyes, who is the real loser then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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