20 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Yes, just read the same.

 

Boeing and FAA should have been proactive, now they're being overtaken by individual actions.

 

... exactly and not at all a surprise.

To be made an involuntary beta-tester is already a joke with Mic Rosoft and their failing 'patches' but this here, man ... !

Donald J. Trump

 

✔ @realDonaldTrump

 

 

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!.

 

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by Opl

8 hours ago, madmen said:

It does appear to be an an

automation taking over from the pilot . Something similar happened with air bus crash at an air show. Pulling back with full power did nothing, and the pilot got fired.

 

 

 

no he didn't get fired, he got censured by airbus as a test pilot and as he was in the wrong mode the engines didn't respond but it was an idiot test and pilot training and software was changed. it was the pilots fault not the aircrafts fault.

26 minutes ago, jollyhangmon said:

 

... exactly and not at all a surprise.

To be made an involuntary beta-tester is already a joke with Mic Rosoft and their failing 'patches' but this here, man ... !

<deleted> has microsoft to do with an air crash?

Germany is now also on the list

3 hours ago, Mansell said:

According to two eye witnesses there were flames and smoke coming from the plane in this recent crash.......does not sound similar to the previous crash.....and I still wouldn't fly on one until we know what happened.

witnesses are notoriously unreliable when describing what they think they saw. A jet "backfiring" and in flames is reported in just about every eye witness account in just about every crash investigation which of course is completely wrong most of the time

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by madmen

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-47536502

 

About time too

 

My son is an Airbus Captain, his opinion is unprintable but it was less than polite.

 

If it ain't Airbus, I'm not going. 

1 hour ago, Opl said:

Donald J. Trump

 

✔ @realDonaldTrump

 

 

Airplanes are becoming far too complex to fly. Pilots are no longer needed, but rather computer scientists from MIT. I see it all the time in many products. Always seeking to go one unnecessary step further, when often old and simpler is far better. Split second decisions are needed, and the complexity creates danger. All of this for great cost yet very little gain. I don’t know about you, but I don’t want Albert Einstein to be my pilot. I want great flying professionals that are allowed to easily and quickly take control of a plane!.

 

OMG .... Something out of DJT's mouth (or finger tapping) that I can actually agree with !

If only there could be more!

An earlier post said the faa was taking the brown envelope I strongly doubt that but are they under extreme pressure yes for sure I feel the prudent thing would be to ground the max eight till the cause is known and to train the pilots to manually fly more often and design aircraft they are enherently stable even if it costs a bit on the efficiency side again my deepest condolences to those effected and a big thanks to the moderators for removing an earlier  insensitive post

I have a problem with this eye witness :

 

"The plane tried to climb but failed, then swerved sharply trailing white smoke and objects including clothes before crashing, said farmer Tamirat Abera. "

 

If this is true, we are talking about an explosion right after takeoff , or something that hit the plane so a part of it fell off. Remember this is a new plane so there should be no tiredness of the structure.   

 

Hopefully the black boxes will give us answers asap. 

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by balo

Still possible at this time to board on an 737 MAX aircraft : Southwest(31)  American Airlines (24), Air Canada (24 ) Westjet (13) Spicejet (13) Jet Airways (8), LOT (6 ). FlyDubai, Air Italy,  Icelandair , S7 Airlines, 

6 minutes ago, Opl said:

Still possible at this time to board on an 737 MAX aircraft : Southwest(31)  American Airlines (24), Air Canada (24 ) Westjet (13) Spicejet (13) Jet Airways (8), LOT (6 ). FlyDubai, Air Italy,  Icelandair , S7 Airlines.

Less and less places to go to though.

10 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Less and less places to go to though.

skip France, Italy, Germany, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, Oman, Singapore….

41 minutes ago, Opl said:

Still possible at this time to board on an 737 MAX aircraft : Southwest(31)  American Airlines (24), Air Canada (24 ) Westjet (13) Spicejet (13) Jet Airways (8), LOT (6 ). FlyDubai, Air Italy,  Icelandair , S7 Airlines, 

Not Air Italy.

14 hours ago, robblok said:

That is the American way, money first safety later besides it did not happen in the US.

 

This is real premature, investigation not done yet, sounds a lot like the US helping out an US company. Then they find it strange that people don't trust the USA that much anymore.

 

There are two related, intertwined aviation agencies in the U.S. federal government -- the Federal Aviation Administration, which does regulate the airlines and set safety standards, and then the National Transportation Safety Board, which investigates aircraft and other transit related crashes, and makes post crash recommendations to the FAA.

 

The fact that the U.S. FAA is talking here and not the NTSB, particularly in the Trump Administration in the middle of trying to sell Boeing jets to the Chinese, is not particularly reassuring. AFAIK, the FAA has a history of at times being overly beholden to the air transport industry, and in the past has neglected or slow-walked post crash safety recommendations of the NTSB for economic impact and other reasons.

 

In the wake of these two recent crashes, it does seem a bit premature for the FAA to be giving the jet model a green flag -- before the crash investigations even determine what were the likely cause/causes of the crashes. If the FAA had a "safety first" orientation and commitment, I don't think they'd be making such a statement. And the NTSB certainly hasn't said any such thing.

 

 

 

And now Europe appears to have an opposite view from the FAA:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/12/european-aviation-regulator-easa-suspends-all-boeing-737-max-operations-in-europe.html

 

And more of the same from a very well respected former NTSB chairman (and U.S. politicians):

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/03/11/ethiopian-airlines-crash-ethiopia-mourns-victims/3127591002/

 

Quote

 

Boeing and the FAA should ground the U.S. fleet of 737 MAX 8 jets after one of the innovative planes crashed in Ethiopia, killing 157 and raising safety concerns about thousands of new planes on order around the globe, a former NTSB chairman said Monday.

The MAX 8 is at the vanguard of a new generation of jets being manufactured and sold to many countries. But two of the jets have now crashed - an Indonesian jet plunged into the Java Sea five months ago - and it's vital to find out what went wrong before too many of the planes are in the sky, said Jim Hall, who headed the National Transportation Safety Board from 1994 to 2001.

 

 

Quote

 

U.S. senators Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., and Richard Blumenthal, D-Conn., echoed Hall's call for a grounding of the MAX 8. “Until the cause of the crash is known and it’s clear that similar risks aren’t present in the domestic fleet, I believe all Boeing 737 MAX 8 series aircraft operating in the United States should be temporarily grounded,” Senator Feinstein wrote.

 

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

Ethiopian's only other crash involved a 737 out of Beirut. Admittedly it was an earlier, more 'reliable' derivative and not the same as the deeply flawed, over-engineered and hopelessly profit-driven Max 8 that has recently and successively claimed the lives of trusting, fare-paying innocents. Neither Boeing, the FAA or the NTSB came out with any substantive findings on why that particular aircraft fell out of the skies. That was left for the Lebanese aviation regulators and they only passed the buck.

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

And now Europe appears to have an opposite view from the FAA:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/12/european-aviation-regulator-easa-suspends-all-boeing-737-max-operations-in-europe.html

 

Hot market tip! Ditch Boeing stock NOW!!!

50 minutes ago, Opl said:

skip France, Italy, Germany, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia, Oman, Singapore….

..and the whole EU now.

M.C.A.S BOEING B 737 MAX

 

ETHIOPIAN (AV HERALD)

 

LION AIR (AV HERALD)

Edited March 12, 20197 yr by Opl

18 hours ago, DoctorG said:

Bit rash of FAA to declare the planes as safe when the investigation has not yet begun, especially as the pilot reported difficulties and witnesses saw bits falling off before the actual crash. Have we had the Lion Air investigation result yet?

Just circling the wagons. A big and powerful US company, 5000 737 Max 8's on order. The flight tracking looking similar to the Lion Air flight. Possibly some software glitch that occurs when the flaps are retracted. The pitch augmentation system (which works autonomously when the autopilot is off, and flaps up) as they switch from hand flying at take-off to autopilot. Some error occurs and the pilot's natural reaction to disengage the autopilot and hand fly causes a bigger problem and the plane becomes unflyable. No idea but with both black boxes recovered, and the Lion Air flight about to come out I am sure Boeing will get to the bottom of it. Of course, minimizing Boeing's culpability. 

BTW. Anyone looking for "knowledge speculation" should consult the pprune pilot's website.  

4 hours ago, Ulic said:

 

BTW. Anyone looking for "knowledge speculation" should consult the pprune pilot's website.  

 

Excellent website. I learned a lot.

7 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Hot market tip! Ditch Boeing stock NOW!!!

 

What an intelligent and thought out comment. Post of the day goes to you.