After paying an overstay, how long before U can return

[burlap]

My son (an American citizen) went to Laos and got a tourist visa 3 months ago.  When he came back to Bangkok he said: "Hey, they gave me 3 months instead of two, this must be something new!"  (Unfortunately, he was looking at the expiration date of the visa, not the entry stamp.) When the 3 months were up, a couple of days ago, he went to Chaeng Watthana to try to get a 30-day extension.  They informed him he had a 32-day overstay and he must go to the airport the next day, pay a fine & leave the country.  He asked the immigration lady if he could fly back to Laos and get another Tourist visa. She said that would be OK.

 

He flew to Laos the next day and went to the consulate to apply for the tourist visa, but when he got there, there was a sign on the door saying they were no longer taking drop-ins for visa applications, everyone must make an online appointment before they will be admitted inside the consulate, so he went back to his hotel to make an apt. But the appointment program said the first available slot was in 29 days! He decided to fly back to BKK the next day, and get a 30-day transit pass, then go to Penang to get the tourist visa before the 30 days were up.

 

So, today, he flew into BKK, & waited in the immigration line. The officer said because of the overstay, he would not be allowed to enter the kingdom without a ticket out, so he got out of line, and went and bought a ticket to Hong Kong, stood in line again, and this time the agent he would not be allowed entry even with the outbound ticket. The agent called Laos air and said they would have to pay a fine for allowing my son to come to Thailand without an outbound ticket.  The Laos Air official forced my son to buy an expensive ticket (back to Vientiane) for tomorrow morning, they then locked him up over-night in a detention center, where he is right now. (He also has to pay 1,000 Baht for detention-center rent.)

 

He asked Thai Immigration how long he is barred from entering Thailand.  The officer said: "I'm not your teacher, it is your responsibility to know the law."  I've spent the last hour searching the internet for this law and I can't find anything.

 

Does anyone know the answer, or at least where I should be looking?

[doremifasol]

 

 

https://tratimmigration.com/thailand-visa-overstay-regulations/

 

Good Luck, hope everything gets sorted out.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by doremifasol

[AlexRich]

Expensive lesson.

[elviajero]

59 minutes ago, burlap said:

He asked Thai Immigration how long he is barred from entering Thailand.  The officer said: "I'm not your teacher, it is your responsibility to know the law."  I've spent the last hour searching the internet for this law and I can't find anything.

 

Does anyone know the answer, or at least where I should be looking?

There is no set time (law) he needs to stay out after an overstay. He has not been formally banned/barred for the overstay. Whether or not he gets back in depends entirely on the IO processing his entry.

 

His 3 months in the country as a tourist, and wanting to extend that further as a tourist, in addition to the overstay are what’s going against him.

 

As he’s being sent back to Vientiane his best bet would be to try entering again via the land border to Nong Khai using visa exemption. If in the unlikely event he gets turned away there he’d just be sent back to Laos (no detention) and could make plan C.

 

Alternatively he could go to the consulate in Savannahket and try for a tourist visa as they don’t require an appointment.

Edited March 12, 2019 by elviajero

[BritTim]

You could almost certainly cross the Friendship Bridge into Thailand from Vientiane tomorrow, to get a visa exempt entry. However, I would suggest flying from Vientiane to Kuala Lumpur, getting a tourist visa there. Flying back into Bangkok should then be OK, even with the overstay.

[fforest1]

You never know but there might agents around Vientiane who have have ways around the appointment system I myself would at least ask around....

Edited March 13, 2019 by fforest1

[ubonjoe]

They have made some changes with warning on the website for appointments. Perhaps because there are some "fixers" at work there.

 

And then this.

[onera1961]

He might face further entry problems in airports. It is better to avoid airports for now with his history. He can use land borders with a visa (not to waste his visa exemption entries - two per year in the land border). 

[JackThompson]

What he does next has a lot to do with how often he plans to stay in Thailand in the near-future.  If a short visit and leave, the Visa-Exempt via Friendship Bridge should be OK.  Worst-case, turned around (but no detention), and then take the bus to Savannakhet for a Tourist Visa, and enter at Mukdahan.  If planning more time in Thailand in the future, my first choice would be to take the bus to Savannakhet for a Tourist Visa.

 

As to traveling to KL for a Tourist Visa - that could work, if he took the Train and entered at Pedang Besar with 10K Baht worth of cash to show, a flight out within 60-days, and a hotel-booking (can be a few days done free online).  But, there was a report of a land-return from Malaysia with a Tourist Visa being prevented due to an overstay-history - though the person denied had "several short overstays" - vs one.  Your son could explain he was just ignorant about the visa-date vs permitted-stay date, and if having all the other things, should be let in.

 

In any case, if trying to enter by land, you can walk right back where you came-from.  He has already experienced what happens trying to enter by air - one cannot even choose where they go next when refused-entry.

 

If Thailand becomes too difficult - The Philippines, Vietnam, and Cambodia would allow for years of stay without the problems Thai-Immigration creates.

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, burlap said:

He decided to fly back to BKK the next day, and get a 30-day transit pass

A big mistake with that overstay, especially - but even dangerous without it.  Wish he had asked here first.  Right into a hornet's nest.

 

7 hours ago, burlap said:

today, he flew into BKK, & waited in the immigration line. The officer said because of the overstay, he would not be allowed to enter the kingdom without a ticket out, so he got out of line, and went and bought a ticket to Hong Kong, stood in line again, and this time the agent he would not be allowed entry even with the outbound ticket.

Was it the same Immigration Officer who did this?

 

7 hours ago, burlap said:

He also has to pay 1,000 Baht for detention-center rent.

It is speculated the IOs are being allowed to split money from this racket, creating an incentive to deny-entry.  That rate is higher than reported previously.

Edited March 13, 2019 by JackThompson

[KarlS]

13 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

It is speculated the IOs are being allowed to split money from this racket, creating an incentive to deny-entry.  That rate is higher than reported previously.

 

Speculation is not proof or evidence.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, KarlS said:

Speculation is not proof or evidence.

If you seek a "non-corruption" based explanation, since there is no logical one, that would be that they are denying their citizens the ability to profit from our spending out of pure hate/resentment.  I find it hard to believe such a climate would propagate systematically, at key entry-points.

 

We know from reports all over the country that immigration is rife with corruption.  Check out the increases in agent-rates from the "tightening" of the retirement-extension rules, as the latest example, and the "ED Visa crackdown" increased corruption-money scheme before.  Given that pattern, a "follow the money" explanation is more likely than one based only on a hateful ideology, though hate can be used to lubricate the effort. 

 

There are many who could be paying for these rogue-checkpoint policies - elite-visa beneficiaries, agent-IO partnerships, or other nations in the region who might want fewer Westerners present in Thailand.  As long as any corruption-money is authorized and paid up through the chain of command, no "crackdown" would be forthcoming. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by JackThompson

[KarlS]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If you seek a "non-corruption" based explanation, since there is no logical one, that would be that they are denying their citizens the ability to profit from our spending out of pure hate/resentment.  I find it hard to believe such a climate would propagate systematically, at key entry-points.

 

We know from reports all over the country that immigration is rife with corruption.  Check out the increases in agent-rates from the "tightening" of the retirement-extension rules, as the latest example, and the "ED Visa crackdown" increased corruption-money scheme before.  Given that pattern, a "follow the money" explanation is more likely than one based only on a hateful ideology, though hate can be used to lubricate the effort. 

 

There are many who could be paying for these rogue-checkpoint policies - elite-visa beneficiaries, agent-IO partnerships, or other nations in the region who might want fewer Westerners present in Thailand.  As long as any corruption-money is authorized and paid up through the chain of command, no "crackdown" would be forthcoming. 

Provide EVIDENCE, not hearsay and gossip.

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, KarlS said:

Provide EVIDENCE, not hearsay and gossip.

Provide a more likely reason why a corrupt govt-agency is denying income to their own citizens.

 

The agent-reports for retirement and the ED-Visa "no hassle extension" schemes are not gossip, btw.  Very out in the open, and allowed by the higher-ups to continue indefinitely.

Edited March 13, 2019 by JackThompson

[KarlS]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Provide a more likely reason why a corrupt govt-agency is denying income to their own citizens.

 

The agent-reports for retirement and the ED-Visa "no hassle extension" schemes are not gossip, btw.  Very out in the open, and allowed by the higher-ups to continue indefinitely.

Those who support corruption must expect to pay -- No one has to use an agent. 

[jspill]

There is no set time limit to being out of the country after paying the overstay fine, many people have paid it and flown back the very next day. Sorry to hear that your son ran into an officer on a power trip, it is happening more often lately.

 

I'd tell him to take a tuktuk from Vientiane to the land border with Thailand, it's much friendlier, once through he can take a taxi to Udon Thani airport and fly domestic to Bangkok, no issues flying domestic with a past overstay as there are no passport controls, and it's cheaper.

Edited March 13, 2019 by jspill

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, KarlS said:

Those who support corruption must expect to pay -- No one has to use an agent. 

The problem is, the IOs organize and run the corruption, then make problems for people obeying the law. 

To be fair, the OP had an overstay, but he had paid the fine and left.  Then, upon his return, he was told to buy a ticket by an IO, and did as he was asked.  After following instructions, he was then denied-entry after that step - which is inexcusable. 
Similar is reported at Poipet - told to come back the next day, then when they do, given a formal denial-of-entry stamp for following an IO's instructions. 

 

This is not how legitimate people and organizations operate.

Edited March 13, 2019 by JackThompson

[KarlS]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The problem is, the IOs organize and run the corruption, then make problems for people obeying the law. 

To be fair, the OP had an overstay, but he had paid the fine and left.  Then, upon his return, he was told to buy a ticket by an IO, and did as he was asked.  After following instructions, he was then denied-entry after that step - which is inexcusable. 
Similar is reported at Poipet - told to come back the next day, then when they do, given a formal denial-of-entry stamp for following an IO's instructions. 

 

This is not how legitimate people and organizations operate.

You seem to accept at face value unverifiable stories which are related on an anonymous forum.

I have used the Poipet crossing on many occasions without any problem but that is not "news'

[elviajero]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

13 hours ago, burlap said:

He also has to pay 1,000 Baht for detention-center rent.

It is speculated the IOs are being allowed to split money from this racket, creating an incentive to deny-entry.  That rate is higher than reported previously.

Complete baseless nonsense only speculated by conspiracy theorists!

 

 

[alex8912]

I’m confused. OP when your son announced “Hey, they gave me 3 months instead of two, this must be something new!" Were YOU present?  Didn’t you know tourist visas are only for 60 days?? 

If that is not the case and you did NOT hear him say this didn’t you think it was strange he was still in Thailand after 60 days? Or again you did not know anything about TV length? 

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, alex8912 said:

I’m confused. OP when your son announced “Hey, they gave me 3 months instead of two, this must be something new!" Were YOU present?  Didn’t you know tourist visas are only for 60 days?? 

If that is not the case and you did NOT hear him say this didn’t you think it was strange he was still in Thailand after 60 days? Or again you did not know anything about TV length? 

Sounds like the OP is inquiring on behalf of his son (probably from back in the US) and was given the information by phone or email or similar. No reason for anyone in the OP's position to have any idea at all on how long a Thai tourist visa might be valid. In any case, three months is no less plausible than two. Three month entry stamps or visa classes are quite common in other regional countries.

[emptypockets]

8 hours ago, KarlS said:

Speculation is not proof or evidence.

From what I've read the only conspiracy theories and speculation seems to come from Jack.

[burlap]

11 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

They have made some changes with warning on the website for appointments. Perhaps because there are some "fixers" at work there.

 

And then this.

I understand why they would like an appointment system. but having to wait a month for your appointment seems a bit much.

[ubonjoe]

39 minutes ago, burlap said:

I understand why they would like an appointment system. but having to wait a month for your appointment seems a bit much.

I think we will see an improvement of the availability since the have done some changes to catch those that have been making multiple appointments.

[burlap]

10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

If Thailand becomes too difficult - The Philippines, Vietnam, and Cambodia would allow for years of stay without the problems Thai-Immigration creates.

 

Thanks.  My son has a Thai mother and a Thai girlfriend, so he's not just looking for a generic SE Asian country to hang out in.  

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, burlap said:

Thanks.  My son has a Thai mother and a Thai girlfriend, so he's not just looking for a generic SE Asian country to hang out in.  

So he's a Thai citizen and doesn't need a VISA then, and can't be banned for overstay.

[burlap]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

So he's a Thai citizen and doesn't need a VISA then, and can't be banned for overstay.

He is not a Thai citizen.

[Dnyy]

11 minutes ago, burlap said:

Thanks.  My son has a Thai mother and a Thai girlfriend, so he's not just looking for a generic SE Asian country to hang out in.  

He qualifies for Thai citizenship in that case.

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, burlap said:

He is not a Thai citizen.

If he has a Thai mother, he is Thai by birthright.

 

With proof of his Thai nationality he can easily get a 1 year extension of stay from immigration.

Edited March 13, 2019 by elviajero

[visarunner]

13 hours ago, fforest1 said:

You never know but there might agents around Vientiane who have have ways around the appointment system I myself would at least ask around....

NO, NO, NO WAY.