webfact Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 Britain in Brexit chaos - parliament crushes May's EU deal again By Elizabeth Piper, Kylie MacLellan and William James Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May speaks in Parliament in London, Britain, March 12, 2019. UK Parliament/Jessica Taylor/Handout via REUTERS LONDON (Reuters) - British lawmakers crushed Prime Minister Theresa May's European Union divorce deal on Tuesday, thrusting Britain deeper into crisis and forcing parliament to decide within days whether to back a no-deal Brexit or seek a last-minute delay. Lawmakers voted against May's amended Brexit deal by 391 to 242 as her last-minute talks with EU chiefs on Monday to assuage her critics' concerns ultimately proved fruitless. The vote puts the world's fifth largest economy in uncharted territory with no obvious way forward; exiting the EU without a deal, delaying the March 29 divorce date, a snap election or even another referendum are all now possible. May might even try a third time to get parliamentary support in the hope that hardline eurosceptic lawmakers in her Conservative Party, the most vocal critics of her withdrawal treaty, might change their minds if it becomes more likely that Britain might stay in the EU after all. While she lost, the margin of defeat was smaller than the record 230-vote loss her deal suffered in January. Lawmakers will now vote at 1900 GMT on Wednesday on whether Britain should quit the world's biggest trading bloc without a deal, a scenario that business leaders warn would bring chaos to markets and supply chains, and other critics say could cause shortages of food and medicines. May said the government would not instruct her own party's lawmakers how to vote, as would normally be the case. An opposition Labour Party spokesman said this meant she had "given up any pretence of leading the country". May's political spokesman said she had not discussed resigning. The prime minister, hoarse after Monday's late-night talks, told lawmakers: "Let me be clear. Voting against leaving without a deal and for an extension does not solve the problems we face." IMPASSE She said parliament was now at an impasse: "Does it wish to revoke Article 50 (announcing intention to leave the EU)? Does it want to hold a second referendum? Or does it want to leave with a deal, but not this deal?" Graham Brady, an influential Conservative lawmaker, said the two most likely scenarios were leaving the EU without a deal "or some kind of endless delay". The European Union said the risk of a damaging no-deal Brexit has "increased significantly" but there would be no more negotiations with London on the divorce terms. Sterling, which had earlier in the day fallen by 2 percent to $1.3005, was trading at around $1.3086 shortly after the vote. [GBP/] The pound is likely to weaken further amid prolonged uncertainty, said Andrew Wilson of Goldman Sachs Asset Management. "That said, ruling out of a 'no deal' Brexit could provide some support for the currency." Opposition to May's deal among members of the Conservative Party derives from a belief that it does not offer the clean break from the European Union that many voted for. Supporters of Brexit argue that, while a "no-deal" divorce might bring some short-term instability, in the longer term it would allow the United Kingdom to thrive and forge beneficial trade deals across the world. However, parliament is expected firmly to reject a "no-deal" Brexit as well, so lawmakers would then vote again on Thursday - on whether government should request a delay to the leaving date to allow further talks. Both May and the EU have already ruled out any other changes to the deal, struck after two-and-a-half years of tortuous negotiations. "NO THIRD CHANCE" "There will be no third chance," European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker said on Monday. "There will be no further interpretations of the interpretations, no further assurances of the reassurances if the 'meaningful vote' tomorrow fails." The government had been expected to offer parliament the chance to press for a short extension, but announced on Tuesday night that it would be for parliament to decide on the length of the delay that the government would request. This raised the possibility that it might ask to push the exit date past late May, when Britain would have to participate in European Parliament elections - a prospect that both sides have been keen to avoid. A spokesman for European Council President Donald Tusk, representing EU governments, said Britain would have to provide a "credible justification" for any request to delay Brexit. Britons voted by 52-48 percent in 2016 to leave the EU but the decision has not only divided the main parties but also exposed deep rifts in British society, bringing concerns about immigration and globalisation to the fore. Many fear that Brexit will divide the West as it grapples with both the unconventional U.S. presidency of Donald Trump and growing assertiveness from Russia and China, leaving Britain economically weaker and with its security capabilities depleted. Supporters say it allows Britain to control immigration and take advantage of global opportunities, striking new trade deals with the United States and others while still keeping close links to the EU, which, even without Britain, would be a single market of 440 million people. (Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; Additional reporting by William James, Michael Holden, Kate Holton, Costas Pitas, Andy Bruce, Alistair Smout; Editing by Giles Elgood and Kevin Liffey) -- © Copyright Reuters 2019-03-13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AlexRich Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 What a calamity! So the ERG have implemented yet another "cunning plan" that would make even Baldrick squirm. Tomorrow "no deal" is off the table and the next day an extension of Article 50 will be voted for ... eventually parliament will come round to a second referendum to break the impasse. And we'll have no Brexit at all. Mrs May will be voting to reject "no deal", and her MP's will be given a free vote. Anyone thinking that the UK is leaving with "no deal" on the 29 March 2019 hasn't been paying attention. A plague on both your houses. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sanemax Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, AlexRich said: What a calamity! So the ERG have implemented yet another "cunning plan" that would make even Baldrick squirm. Tomorrow "no deal" is off the table and the next day an extension of Article 50 will be voted for ... eventually parliament will come round to a second referendum to break the impasse. And we'll have no Brexit at all. Mrs May will be voting to reject "no deal", and her MP's will be given a free vote. Anyone thinking that the UK is leaving with "no deal" on the 29 March 2019 hasn't been paying attention. A plague on both your houses. More likely that a General election will be held to get new M.P's in to break the deadlock 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexRich Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, sanemax said: More likely that a General election will be held to get new M.P's in to break the deadlock Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. A split Tory party would end up handing control of Brexit to a Corbyn coalition (as I doubt he'd win a majority). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sanemax Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 Just now, AlexRich said: Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. A split Tory party would end up handing control of Brexit to a Corbyn coalition (as I doubt he'd win a majority). Labour also has numerous Brexiters , its not a Conservative/Brexit , Labour/remain situation , its cross party 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post melvinmelvin Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, AlexRich said: What a calamity! So the ERG have implemented yet another "cunning plan" that would make even Baldrick squirm. Tomorrow "no deal" is off the table and the next day an extension of Article 50 will be voted for ... eventually parliament will come round to a second referendum to break the impasse. And we'll have no Brexit at all. Mrs May will be voting to reject "no deal", and her MP's will be given a free vote. Anyone thinking that the UK is leaving with "no deal" on the 29 March 2019 hasn't been paying attention. A plague on both your houses. why wasn't the may-deal vote followed by a no-deal vote? what is the point in delaying no-deal vote? would have thought better to have it out of the way so the rest of the week could be focused on "what now"? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SheungWan Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: why wasn't the may-deal vote followed by a no-deal vote? what is the point in delaying no-deal vote? would have thought better to have it out of the way so the rest of the week could be focused on "what now"? Because such a vote will be preceded by a debate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post vinny41 Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, AlexRich said: Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. A split Tory party would end up handing control of Brexit to a Corbyn coalition (as I doubt he'd win a majority). If the Tory remainers in Leave voting areas are removed at the next General Election and replaced with new leaving candidates there will be no split Brexit Barometer shows ten point lead for Conservatives https://www.kantar.com/public/our-thinking/latest/brexit-barometer-march According to these estimates, around 75% of constituencies that were won by the Conservatives in the 2017 general election voted to Leave, while around 61% of Labour constituencies voted to Leave.13 Jul 2018 https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservative-and-labour-constituencies-vote-leave-eu-referendum/ 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post arithai12 Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 The UK had 9 months to think about triggering Article 50, and then a full two years to negotiate the exit. Would it be too harsh to say that the Brexiters voted with their guts and had no clue on how to bring this home? Adding another 1-2 months will achieve nothing more, except more internal fights in their Parliament that have little to do with Brexit. Meanwhile, the dinosaurs in Bruxelles are wasting more time in useless negotiations, each of them with some contraddictory declarations to make under the spotlight. I hope this week will see a no-deal Brexit sanctioned, for the good or the bad of both sides. Let's get over with this farce. The UK might suffer initially, but eventually will find its ground again and may they be happy with it. How can they even think (both sides) of a second referendum, when the UK government doesn't know their left hand from the right and the EU is about to face elections which hopefully will send most of the present lot home. 8 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bomber Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 its not happening,the dream is over 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sanemax Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, bomber said: its not happening,the dream is over Politicians want to leave with no deal and that is what they are insisting on and that is why this deal was rejected , Leave means Leave , no deal 4 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Somtamnication Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 Let's get this over with, Madame PM. Stop listening to the Y2K paranoia! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bomber Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 10 minutes ago, sanemax said: Politicians want to leave with no deal and that is what they are insisting on and that is why this deal was rejected , Leave means Leave , no deal 70-80% dont want a no deal for the economys sake. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Basil B Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 56 minutes ago, sanemax said: More likely that a General election will be held to get new M.P's in to break the deadlock No it wont happen, even JC stopped short of calling for a no confidence vote, a general election at this time will almost certainly lead to a hung parliament, Tories will loose seats, may see the ERG spitting and becoming UKIP2, Labour will be lucky to get any more seats, smaller parties will make gains, which ever party forms the next government will probably be looking to more than one party for support. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Basil B Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, sanemax said: Politicians want to leave with no deal and that is what they are insisting on and that is why this deal was rejected , Leave means Leave , no deal You are wrong, They will have a chance tomorrow and I confidently predict the motion to leave without a deal will have the support of less than 60 MP's, Tories have a free vote on this. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Prissana Pescud Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 38 minutes ago, arithai12 said: The UK had 9 months to think about triggering Article 50, and then a full two years to negotiate the exit. Would it be too harsh to say that the Brexiters voted with their guts and had no clue on how to bring this home? Adding another 1-2 months will achieve nothing more, except more internal fights in their Parliament that have little to do with Brexit. Meanwhile, the dinosaurs in Bruxelles are wasting more time in useless negotiations, each of them with some contraddictory declarations to make under the spotlight. I hope this week will see a no-deal Brexit sanctioned, for the good or the bad of both sides. Let's get over with this farce. The UK might suffer initially, but eventually will find its ground again and may they be happy with it. How can they even think (both sides) of a second referendum, when the UK government doesn't know their left hand from the right and the EU is about to face elections which hopefully will send most of the present lot home. You are totally wrong. The UK had no time to think about negotiating Brexit because the whole show was hijacked by Ms May and her corrupt party. You fail to see the politics in this and the way she has poisoned the will of the people. The whole object of her so called negotiations is to constantly negate the possibility of Brexit ever happening. Because she is a total liar who has wanted No Brexit right from the word go and has put every obstacle in the way to make it not happen. Everytime her version was defeated, she had a speech ready to roll out because she knew it would be defeated. Britain has been dudded by this immoral person, the worst politician since Heath and Chamberlain. 5 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post adammike Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Prissana Pescud said: You are totally wrong. The UK had no time to think about negotiating Brexit because the whole show was hijacked by Ms May and her corrupt party. You fail to see the politics in this and the way she has poisoned the will of the people. The whole object of her so called negotiations is to constantly negate the possibility of Brexit ever happening. Because she is a total liar who has wanted No Brexit right from the word go and has put every obstacle in the way to make it not happen. Everytime her version was defeated, she had a speech ready to roll out because she knew it would be defeated. Britain has been dudded by this immoral person, the worst politician since Heath and Chamberlain. Do keep up she's the worst PM! since Cameron.by the way Brexit is a Tory gig. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soalbundy Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 48 minutes ago, bomber said: its not happening,the dream is over Oh dear, how sad, never mind. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Laughing Gravy Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said: why wasn't the may-deal vote followed by a no-deal vote? what is the point in delaying no-deal vote? would have thought better to have it out of the way so the rest of the week could be focused on "what now"? Because the attorney general clearly stated that the backstop had not changed to a legal binding agreement. So basically the UK would still be tied to the EU which is what they want of course and hooping that their common tactics of getting another referendum, so people get the vote right (in favour of the EU) IMHO i think thgisnis a very bad tactic for the EU. The UK have wanted out of the EU for year. that will not change despite some remainers here saying that the leavers will be all dead soon. Poor taste. The people of the UK are not Ireland and have not really seen huge benefits of EU membership, if any for many of us. Interesting what what reported on sky news that an EU source said that what they are worried is, if the UK stays in the EU for an extension, etc. They are worried they will get a dozen Nigel Farages. I would say you can expect many more than that. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Prissana Pescud Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, adammike said: Do keep up she's the worst PM! since Cameron.by the way Brexit is a Tory gig. I suspect Brexit was a peoples referendum. When it got up the Conservatives put in place a plan for it to fail and so far that plan is on track. Where Ms May politics overrules the will of a popular vote. History will remember her as to most conniving and unscrupulous and immoral PM ever. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Laughing Gravy Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 56 minutes ago, bomber said: its not happening,the dream is over It isn't a dream it was a democratic referendum result. I believe you are gloating but I don't know why. It is certainly not over by a long way. There are many possibilities that can happen but not leaving the EU one day, is not one of them. It might not happen on the 29th March but it will. To think that is really dreaming. 4 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 There is a bigger problem looming and that is the European Elections 23rd-26th May, first the number of seats will be reduced from 751 to 705, and the UK's 73 seats are to be redistributed among the EU27 so if the UK is to remain in even if only temporary after May 26 the EU will have to change the planed distribution of seats, we will have to hold European Elections, and if we do leave then the EU will have to redistribute our seats and many of the EU27 will have to hold more European elections. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sticky Wicket Posted March 12, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, AlexRich said: What a calamity! So the ERG have implemented yet another "cunning plan" that would make even Baldrick squirm. Tomorrow "no deal" is off the table and the next day an extension of Article 50 will be voted for ... eventually parliament will come round to a second referendum to break the impasse. And we'll have no Brexit at all. Mrs May will be voting to reject "no deal", and her MP's will be given a free vote. Anyone thinking that the UK is leaving with "no deal" on the 29 March 2019 hasn't been paying attention. A plague on both your houses. What happens if just one of the 27 member state refuses the extension? Then we leave by default 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 2 hours ago, SheungWan said: Because such a vote will be preceded by a debate. the longstanding original plan for this week was day1 - debates - vote may-deal if fails - debates vote no deal but maybe MPs got scared of missing closing time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Sticky Wicket said: What happens if just one of the 27 member state refuses the extension? Then we leave by default No. May will pull A50 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sticky Wicket Posted March 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Grouse said: No. May will pull A50 She can do that on her own or does she need parliament's approval? 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 If EU agrees to a postponement, I think there may be a majority for N+ if that is tested by Labour. We leave EU but remain in CU and SM. Out of CAP. Keep control of fisheries. Maybe negotiate some involvement with SM decisions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sticky Wicket said: She can do that on her own or does she need parliament's approval? She can decide, but if the alternative is no deal Brexit there is no other option 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post graemeaylward Posted March 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2019 If I were one of the EU leaders, I would refuse the application for an extension, as clearly there is no significant reason to delay. Parliament are split and will never reach agreement. UK have asked to leave on 29th March, force them to do so! Why should the EU waste more time and money on a country that doesn't want to be a member state.Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Prissana Pescud Posted March 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Basil B said: There is a bigger problem looming and that is the European Elections 23rd-26th May, first the number of seats will be reduced from 751 to 705, and the UK's 73 seats are to be redistributed among the EU27 so if the UK is to remain in even if only temporary after May 26 the EU will have to change the planed distribution of seats, we will have to hold European Elections, and if we do leave then the EU will have to redistribute our seats and many of the EU27 will have to hold more European elections. Why worry about that. They are unelected spongers on the public purse. And they tell Britain what to do without election or mandate. Regardless of the 73 seats. It is like the UN. Other than the security council, unelected buffoons from all non western countries try to impose rules that overrule the elected government and their mandate. 3 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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