Mystery black box dangling from distribution panel

[leftrighter]

just recently moved into a new moo baan with the misses and a baby.  The electrical system is my primary target in this first wave of safetying the house. We plan to have a Thai electrician out next week to hopefully rip and replace the distribution box with RCD and RCBO switches and verify all of the wiring.  (Btw - Thanks Crossy - your guidance is excellent!)

 

On to the mystery.  Any idea what this black box is attached to our distribution box?

[Crossy]

With the way it's connected I reckon it's one of them there "power saving" devices. They do nothing!

 

Also, it's connected directly to the hot side of the 63A incoming breaker and has bare connections, no overcurrent whatsoever!!!!! I would disconnect and remove now!!!!

 

There's a shortage of neutrals so I suspect there's a few borrowed ones.

 

Otherwise actually looks pretty good.

[leftrighter]

Crossy, thanks for responding!  On another forum someone suggested it might be a 'power factor saver'.  Some sort of scam device that reduces the apparent power draw of inductive devices.  They speculated the switches might select different capacitors.  Whatever it might be - it is coming out!

 

What do you think about going with a RCD-capable main switch and individual switches that have RCBO built in?  It'd be nice to have some sort of gold-standard "reference architecture for Thai residential wiring 2019".  Though I have shared Forkinhades's diagram from the post "How to make your Thai Electrical system safe" with the electrician.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, leftrighter said:

Crossy, thanks for responding!  On another forum someone suggested it might be a 'power factor saver'.  Some sort of scam device that reduces the apparent power draw of inductive devices.  They speculated the switches might select different capacitors.  Whatever it might be - it is coming out!

 

What do you think about going with a RCD-capable main switch and individual switches that have RCBO built in?  It'd be nice to have some sort of gold-standard "reference architecture for Thai residential wiring 2019".  Though I have shared Forkinhades's diagram from the post "How to make your Thai Electrical system safe" with the electrician.

No need for individual switches to be changed. I put in an RCD before the circuit breaker box that shut everything down if there was a problem. Cost about 3,000 baht if I remember correctly. Saved my life a few times too.

 

Down to me I'd be installing earths to all the plugs ( if not already installed ) and checking that the earth rod is actually long enough. One electrician I employed used a 1 foot long earth rod!

[Crossy]

46 minutes ago, leftrighter said:

What do you think about going with a RCD-capable main switch and individual switches that have RCBO built in?

 

There is no need for both.

 

You can either replace the main switch with an RCBO, a Schneider one should fit if you can't find bticino (else you can use a Safe-T-Cut box in front of the main unit) or you can fit individual RCBOs on selected circuits (water heaters, outdoor lighting and outlets, kitchen outlets, pool pump etc.)

 

The main switch type is easy to fit (by your local man) but has the disadvantage that if it goes off you lose all power.

 

The individual units will end up rather more expensive but only kill the affected circuit, they can be a bind to install due to "borrowed neutrals".

 

As noted above, do check your rod is a)There b)A decent length.

 

[carlyai]

I installed a Safety-Cut device that switches the main power of before the consumer unit. Maybe 5 years ago now.
The good thing is, (at least I think it is a good thing), if you get a very close lightning strike it trips.
The bad thing is that if you're not here, and no one is looking after your place, you don't know your fridges etc are off.
But if you have your router on a UPS connected to the Internet you can get a warning signal on your phone.

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[topt]

On 3/15/2019 at 10:52 AM, carlyai said:

The bad thing is that if you're not here, and no one is looking after your place, you don't know your fridges etc are off.

Agreed - have had a couple of random trips, once in the middle of the night, for seemingly no reason. 

Consequently I think that If we are going away now I will remove the bit in the middle of the device with the sensitivity dial so it won't trip.

[carlyai]

Agreed - have had a couple of random trips, once in the middle of the night, for seemingly no reason. 
Consequently I think that If we are going away now I will remove the bit in the middle of the device with the sensitivity dial so it won't trip.

Sorry, I think it's a bad idea to buy a device that you can dial up the sensativity, as it will usually remain at the higher or bypass setting. We tend to forget.



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[Crossy]

1 hour ago, topt said:

Consequently I think that If we are going away now I will remove the bit in the middle of the device with the sensitivity dial so it won't trip.

 

Which is more important to you, your (or your loved ones) life or a freezer full of food?

 

Do you know EXACTLY what you are doing?? If not then I wouldn't be fooling around with a safety device.

 

You should be able to set up your freezer on a circuit that's not protected by the RCD, in which case you get no spoiled food whilst retaining your life saving device.

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 3/15/2019 at 4:21 AM, leftrighter said:

Crossy, thanks for responding!  On another forum someone suggested it might be a 'power factor saver'.  Some sort of scam device that reduces the apparent power draw of inductive devices.  They speculated the switches might select different capacitors.  Whatever it might be - it is coming out!

 

What do you think about going with a RCD-capable main switch and individual switches that have RCBO built in?  It'd be nice to have some sort of gold-standard "reference architecture for Thai residential wiring 2019".  Though I have shared Forkinhades's diagram from the post "How to make your Thai Electrical system safe" with the electrician.

I got the below square-D ELCB for 2,400 baht in China town. Looks like it will fit ur box also, Crossy can confirm.

 

 

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Looks like it will fit ur box also, Crossy can confirm.

 

The Square-D (Schneider) units should fit most units with plug-in breakers.

 

[carlyai]

 
Which is more important to you, your (or your loved ones) life or a freezer full of food?
 
Do you know EXACTLY what you are doing?? If not then I wouldn't be fooling around with a safety device.
 
You should be able to set up your freezer on a circuit that's not protected by the RCD, in which case you get no spoiled food whilst retaining your life saving device.
 

I didn't see your response before I posted mine. You get my PM a while ago? Seems like Leo is good for TKR.

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[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, carlyai said:

You get my PM a while ago?

 

How long ago is "a while"? Not seen anything for ages.

 

[topt]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Which is more important to you, your (or your loved ones) life or a freezer full of food?

 

Do you know EXACTLY what you are doing?? If not then I wouldn't be fooling around with a safety device.

 

You should be able to set up your freezer on a circuit that's not protected by the RCD, in which case you get no spoiled food whilst retaining your life saving device.

 

It's a Safe T Cut in front of all the breakers. I don't think there is any way to set up anything separately is there?

As far as I was aware all I would be doing is removing the Safe T Cut feature which then leaves the situation as it was before it was fitted.

Please let me know if this is a false assumption? 

 

5 hours ago, carlyai said:

Sorry, I think it's a bad idea to buy a device that you can dial up the sensativity, as it will usually remain at the higher or bypass setting. We tend to forget.



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Not a lot of choice in what to fit without probably a massive amount of work - due to likely shared neutrals etc. On advice this was the most workable option.

[Crossy]

8 hours ago, topt said:

It's a Safe T Cut in front of all the breakers. I don't think there is any way to set up anything separately is there?

As far as I was aware all I would be doing is removing the Safe T Cut feature which then leaves the situation as it was before it was fitted.

Please let me know if this is a false assumption? 

 

Installing a safety device and then removing it? Well, as with all these things it's entirely up to you.

 

Much depends upon exactly what you have, post some photos of what your box with the lid off, there's always a way.