Any limitations to using back-to-back METVs?

[Peter Denis]

Hi guys, looking for some advice/recommendations for my situation.

 

Some background:

> I am 61 years old and since October 2017 I am living in Thailand with my thai girlfriend.

And I am using back-to-back METV's, with border-runs/visits to home country in between. 

I will have to wait 1,5 more years before I can apply for a 'retirement' visa, because the Thai embassy in Belgium - my home country - requires a.o. that you provide income/salary-slips of the last 3 months when you apply for such a visa.  But I do not have these.  I stopped working since I am in the lucky circumstance that I do not need the money and have more than enough on my bank-account to bridge the no-income period till I will get my retirement pension (in 1,5 years).    

So in the mean time I am here on METV's.  I am now using my third METV, which will expire end of april, and a border-run at that time will allow me to stay till end of June (and with extension to end of July).  Then I will go back home and will apply for my 4th METV.

 

> Reading the posts on the TV forum I notice that it seems to get increasingly difficult to stay long time in the country with a tourist visa like I presently do. 

I never experienced any problems or even got any questions when applying for the METVs or entering Thailand.

My questions:

1. Is there a limit to the number of back-to-back METVs one can apply for?

2. Can you be denied entrance at the border with a valid METV (and carrying the equivalent of +20.000 THB + hotel booking for first days)?

If so, are there points of entry to avoid?

3. In 2018 I was more than 180 days in Thailand (approx 270 days), and it looks that in 2019 I will be even longer in Thailand (approx 300 days).  

   Can such long stays on valid tourist visa cause problems?  And when checking the number of days you are in the country do they start counting from each calendar year?  Or can you be denied based on your previous staying history?

4. Applying for an Elite visa would be too expensive, but are there for my case my other options than applying for an METV?  Note: I do not yet meet the requirements for a retirement visa (see higher)  

 

Thanks in advance!

 

[DrJack54]

An METV is tourist visa. They will issue them but that does not mean you won't have trouble entering at bkk airports. Especially with the amount of time your suggesting for current year. You asked about border crossings. You will OK with that but from Belgium you intend to fly to nearby country? 

Edited March 16, 2019 by DrJack54
Error

[thaitero]

If you can manage 800 000 to thai account, you can apply conversion to non imm and after that retirement extension in Thailand.

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

An METV is tourist visa. They will issue them but that does not mean you won't have trouble entering at bkk airports. You asked about border crossings. You will OK with that but from Belgium you intend to fly to nearby country? 

Thanks for response.

Normally I fly to Suvarnabhumi airport as that is the most convenient to enter Thailand from my home country.

What do you consider the probability that I would be denied entrance?

If that probability is high I could consider flying to Cambodia and entering at a land crossing (I live relatively close to the Chaam Sa Ngam crossing).

But that would be a hassle, so if my chances are 90% to enter without difficulty at Suvarnabhumi, I would prefer that option.

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, thaitero said:

If you can manage 800 000 to thai account, you can apply conversion to non imm and after that retirement extension in Thailand.

Yes! Can't believe I read the op and obviously was just skimming it. Seems he is not aware of what you suggest. He mentions.."more than enough money..." So makes perfect sense to non o then extensions using the 800k as you suggest

[DrJack54]

OP, did you read thaitero post. Can you place 800k baht in Thai bank

[jmd8800]

Look into getting a Non-Immigrant O-A in your home country. Your problems will be solved for almost 2 years.

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

OP, did you read thaitero post. Can you place 800k baht in Thai bank

Yes, and thanks to both of you!

I did not know of that possibility.

The 800.000 bath is no problem, but opening a bank account with my present METV might prove difficult.

Also, where to apply for such conversion?  Is that in my home country or at my local IO?

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

Look into getting a Non-Immigrant O-A in your home country. Your problems will be solved for almost 2 years.

OK, I will look into that option!

Thanks a lot!

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, and thanks to both of you!

I did not know of that possibility.

The 800.000 bath is no problem, but opening a bank account with my present METV might prove difficult.

Also, where to apply for such conversion?  Is that in my home country or at my local IO?

You will be able to open a bank account (not as straight forward as years ago but possible). You can do conversion of visa in Thailand. Another option is to go to nearby country and obtain non o based on retirement at Thai consulate. Enter Thailand and then apply for extension before it expires. Non o valid 90 days. Then your all done. 

[onera1961]

O-A is the best option for you right now. Two years of peace of mind. If you try to enter Thailand using METV, may be you can fly to KL and from there to Penang and then cross the land border to reach Hat Yai. After that another flight from Hat Yai to DMK or UTP. Nobody can tell you the probability of rejection at an airport. Thai immigration does not publish those data. If you intend to fly and take a chance, at BKK, book your ticket through SIN or HKG and if rejected, they will send you to SIN or HKG. With METV, another option is to fly to Macau and then take an AIR ASIA flight to UTP. But make it a top priority to get an O-A, if possible and good luck with your new life.

Edited March 16, 2019 by onera1961

[Date Masamune]

33 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

Look into getting a Non-Immigrant O-A in your home country. Your problems will be solved for almost 2 years.

 

6 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

O-A is the best option for you right now. Two years of peace of mind. If you try to enter Thailand using METV, may be you can fly to KL and from there to Penang and then cross the land border to reach Hat Yai. After that another flight from Hat Yai to DMK or UTP. Nobody can tell you the probability of rejection at an airport. Thai immigration does not publish those data. If you intend to fly and take a chance, at BKK, book your ticket through SIN or HKG and if rejected, they will send you to SIN or HKG. With METV, another option is to fly to Macau and then take an AIR ASIA flight to UTP. But make it a top priority to get an O-A, if possible and good luck with your new life.

Read the OP he can't get the OA in Belgum.

[onera1961]

6 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

Read the OP he can't get the OA in Belgum.

Doesn't Belgium issue O-A. That is kind of strange. 

Edited March 16, 2019 by onera1961

[Peter Denis]

2 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

 

Read the OP he can't get the OA in Belgum.

Yes, that's correct.  I meet all the requirements for an OA except that I cannot show income/salary slips of last 3 months as I stopped working.  I also don't understand why they impose this, because it blocks the application for people like me who have more than enough money and hence do not need to work anymore.

[DrJack54]

45 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, that's correct.  I meet all the requirements for an OA except that I cannot show income/salary slips of last 3 months as I stopped working.  I also don't understand why they impose this, because it blocks the application for people like me who have more than enough money and hence do not need to work anymore.

I think some other countries have that requirement. However I believe there is a way other than pay slips. Someone who has obtained an O-A will advise. Still better contact consulate. Might be as simple as amount of money in bank. That will give you almost 2 yrs.

Edited March 16, 2019 by DrJack54
Error

[jmd8800]

32 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, that's correct.  I meet all the requirements for an OA except that I cannot show income/salary slips of last 3 months as I stopped working.  I also don't understand why they impose this, because it blocks the application for people like me who have more than enough money and hence do not need to work anymore.

I don't know about Belgium but in the USA if you don't have income, you can show money in the bank (in your country not Thailand) for an O-A. 800k and/or combination of bank and income last I looked.

[jmd8800]

Looks like the OP has a point. And this is very important to note as his requirements differ from mine big time.

 

"An original attestation from the bank with at least 800.000 bahts or +/- 20.000 € (bank in Thailand or in Belgium) + 2 copies AND a proof of monthly income equivalent to 65.000 bahts net/month, at least from the last 3 months + 2copies."

 

Notice they require both income and money in the bank.

 

https://www.thaiembassy.be/visa/   scroll down to O-A

 

If this is true then it will be a game changer for many.

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, jmd8800 said:

I don't know about Belgium but in the USA if you don't have income, you can show money in the bank (in your country not Thailand) for an O-A. 800k and/or combination of bank and income last I looked.

Yes, and takes makes sense.  But the Thai Embassy in Belgium requirements for an OA state monthly income AND money in the bank, which is not logical.  And this is different than what the Thai Ministry itself posts on their website. (they mention OR).  I already contacted the Belgian Embassy about this some months ago, but did get a response which clearly showed they did not understand (or did not want to understand), and after some time I did gave up.  But it looks that I will need to press for a clear response as I do not want to run the risk of applying for the OA knowing full well that I do not meet the monthly income requirement.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

My questions:

1. Is there a limit to the number of back-to-back METVs one can apply for?

There is no set limit, but the embassy issuing the visa could eventually say no more.

 

Quote

2. Can you be denied entrance at the border with a valid METV (and carrying the equivalent of +20.000 THB + hotel booking for first days)?

If so, are there points of entry to avoid?

Yes. 

 

If you have stayed long term in the country as a tourist you could be denied entry at any border. There is evidently a clampdown at the major airports where IO's are under orders to scrutinise long term tourists more closely. In most cases just warnings are given. In a few cases they deny entry. The odds of denial with a METV are, IMO, very small, but increase over time.

 

Quote

3. In 2018 I was more than 180 days in Thailand (approx 270 days), and it looks that in 2019 I will be even longer in Thailand (approx 300 days).  

   Can such long stays on valid tourist visa cause problems? 

Yes. A METV is not designed for someone to live in the country for months/years. It's designed for people living outside of Thailand that want to visit multiple times during a 6 months period.

 

Quote

And when checking the number of days you are in the country do they start counting from each calendar year?  Or can you be denied based on your previous staying history?

It is the time spent in the country that counts. IO's have discretional power to deny entry for any reason listed under section 12 of the immigration act. As it's discretional they could start counting from any point in time.

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by elviajero

[Peter Denis]

Thank you Elviajero > crystal clear!

 

[Date Masamune]

Yes, that's correct.  I meet all the requirements for an OA except that I cannot show income/salary slips of last 3 months as I stopped working.  I also don't understand why they impose this, because it blocks the application for people like me who have more than enough money and hence do not need to work anymore.

Can you apply in another European country with less draconian and ridiculous requirements that effectively double the financial requirements ？


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[Peter Denis]

First of all I'd like to thank once again all the TV-Forum members who made the effort to respond on my query with answers, suggestions and recommendations.

The comments were helpful in clearing my mind on how to proceed.

In conclusion:

1. Continuing with back-to-back METVs is no option as it will become increasingly risky for being denied access.

2. I need a long-term non-tourist visa.  I meet all the requirements for an O-A retirement visa except for providing proof of income/salary of the last 3 months before application.  That strange - probably incorrect - requirement is imposed by the Thai Embassy in Belgium when applying for such a Visa.

However, due to our discussion it suddenly dawned on me, that I can meet that requirement by simply using my own 1-man company to transmit me the equivalent of +65000 THB at the end of March/April/May referring to it as salary for my services.  As I would do the O-A retirement application somewhere in June, that would work out fine.

Problem solved (with a little creativity)....

 

[Peter Denis]

9 minutes ago, Date Masamune said:

Can you apply in another European country with less draconian and ridiculous requirements that effectively double the financial requirements ？


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That's not possible, as you need to apply in your home country for such an A-O retirement visa.

But in my previous post, I explained how I will 'dodge' that ridiculous rule.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

1. Is there a limit to the number of back-to-back METVs one can apply for?

2. Can you be denied entrance at the border with a valid METV (and carrying the equivalent of +20.000 THB + hotel booking for first days)? 

If so, are there points of entry to avoid?  

An METV was designed, by the Thai officials who created it, to allow 60-day permitted-stays on every use until it expires.  Each of those may be extended by 30-days at the option of immigration.  There are no additional limits to it's use. 

 

You will not have a problem using a valid METV + carrying the 20K Baht worth of Cash or Travelers Checks, when entering at entry-points that are not breaking the law by denying-entry based on made-up non-rules and lies. 

 

At all land-borders other than the Poipet/Aranya entry point, we have no reports of IOs breaking the law (Immigration Act) and denying-entry to those with valid Tourist-type Visas + carrying the cash.

 

The Bangkok, Krabi, and Phuket airports are not considered safe / law-abiding for those who have a history of stay beyond the occasional couple weeks here and there.  Those who use Tourist Visas (single or multiple) as designed by Thai Authorities, may be denied entry illegally, based on lies.

 

Quote

3. In 2018 I was more than 180 days in Thailand (approx 270 days), and it looks that in 2019 I will be even longer in Thailand (approx 300 days).  

There is, and never was, any "180 day rule".  There was a rule for Visa-Exempts (90-days per 180-days), but this never applied to Tourist Visas, and even for Visa-Exempt, has been superseded by 2 subsequent rule-changes, so is no longer in effect.

 

Although there have been some IOs at lawless entry-points talking about 180 days, in some cases, they counted back over a year to get a higher number, so were clearly dishonest, dishonorable, lawbreaking types.  Such people could say you cannot come in because there is a full-moon next week, and it would be no less-credible than what they are doing now. 

 

4 hours ago, Date Masamune said:

Read the OP he can't get the OA in Belgum.

4 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

Yes, that's correct.  I meet all the requirements for an OA except that I cannot show income/salary slips of last 3 months as I stopped working.  I also don't understand why they impose this, because it blocks the application for people like me who have more than enough money and hence do not need to work anymore.

In that case,  you could use his 800K in an account abroad (Belgium or where ever) to get a Non-O Multiple-Entry in Penang or Savannakhet based on retirement.  This only provides 90-day permitted-stays per entry, but I would feel safer doing out/in runs with a Non-O-ME than an METV, given the current anti-Farang climate within immigration. 

 

You may also need a letter from your embassy where you state you are retired - which is reported as requested at these consulates to get a Non-O based on retirement.

Edited March 16, 2019 by JackThompson