Health Advisory

[lannarebirth]

Given its famed air pollution levels, is Chiang Mai habitable .... SNURP ..... 1999 pattern, we will have dangerous levels of air pollution through till late June.

4. A superb Thai government website where you can monitor air pollution anywhere in Thailand, view past data, bring up tables and graphs, etc, is:

http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Default.cfm

A very good compilation of data RobRoy. You have an evangelist's zeal for this work and I strongly encourage you to use that gift to preach to the sinners rather than the choir. I look forward to your various Letters To the Editor being published.

[sabaijai]

Given its famed air pollution levels, is Chiang Mai habitable .... SNURP ..... 1999 pattern, we will have dangerous levels of air pollution through till late June.

4. A superb Thai government website where you can monitor air pollution anywhere in Thailand, view past data, bring up tables and graphs, etc, is:

http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/Default.cfm

A very good compilation of data RobRoy. You have an evangelist's zeal for this work and I strongly encourage you to use that gift to preach to the sinners rather than the choir. I look forward to your various Letters To the Editor being published.

My thoughts exactly.

[cm-happy]

Nothing scientific, but my eyes, throat, nose and lungs all tell me that the air pollution here is getting worse. Looking outside just a short distance away Doi Suthep is NOT VISSIBLE.

In spite the gov't has removed the emergency status for obvious commercial reasons, upcoming songklan holliday affecting tourist revenues.

Maybe the silly monkeys will finally take some proactive measures to curb the pollution, when is starts affecting their pocket books and wallets, and tourists no longer visit here because of the health hazzards..

[Rasseru]

A very good compilation of data RobRoy. You have an evangelist's zeal for this work and I strongly encourage you to use that gift to preach to the sinners rather than the choir. I look forward to your various Letters To the Editor being published.

My thoughts exactly.

Thank you very much for your post, RobRoy. I suppose that what you have done includes compiling data, and I certainly would be happy to see you address these issues anywhere else that you can and wish to, but I think that what you have produced is much more than a simple compilation of data and, while I had not and do not particularly regard myself as a member of a choir, I am very glad you took the trouble to post your message here.

[Bananaman]

Robroy

Cheers for that highly informative piece. In my mind, you've presented enough evidence which, if it is to be believed, would suggest that this city is no longer a safe place to be (was it ever?). The problem I, and am sure many others face, is trying to convince our Thai partners that this situation is serious enough to warrant relocation. The philosophy of "live for the day/moment" often precludes rational thought with regards to what the effects of breathing polluted air might be some 20 or 30 years down the line. Personally I think the lung cancer statistics speak for themselves.

Something I find interesting too is the number of westerners living in denial of the problem. If you're home city in the west was suffering from pollution to the same extent, would you stay there? And yet I see so many characters with no responsibilities and nothing really to keep them here just carrying on like they're invincible and the air isn't an issue.

[bryuung]

I just flew back into Chiang Mai and here is a good photo of what the pollution looks like from above. You can actually see the line where the pollution ends and clear sky begins.

[happyman40]

why does some peoble always copypaste a long story like that...

dont they think we read it the first time??

[chanchao]

> If I spoke Thai, I would call the municipal hotline; not an option. Any comments/suggestions?

Learn Thai, or find an assertive Thai/English speaker?

Edited March 26, 2007 by chanchao

[Rasseru]

why does some peoble always copypaste a long story like that...

dont they think we read it the first time??

Agreed. Funny that a newbie would notice what some well-established and long-term posters apparently do not.

[fugubuta]

i've booked a trip to chiangmai, leaving on 28 Mar. i'm really really very worried ..... any advice? should i still make the trip?

[Bananaman]

i've booked a trip to chiangmai, leaving on 28 Mar. i'm really really very worried ..... any advice? should i still make the trip?

I'd stay away unless it's really necessary. It's not a fun place to be when the air is like it is now. You could take a risk and come and hope that it's cleared some by then (zero chance TBH) or even just go with the philosophy that "well I'm only here for a few days/weeks so that amount of exposure won't cause any long term damage", but do you really want to be in a place where statistical evidence says the pollution level is damaging to health?

http://www.pcd.go.th/AirQuality/Regional/defaultThai.cfm

CM is normally third from the top of the list.

[p1p]

After brief respite, haze again covers North

Chiang Mai (Post Reporters, Thai News Agency)

After only a few days of improved weather, smog and dust-particle levels rose severely in Chiang Mai again on Sunday and Monday, while emergency measures imposed in Mae Hong Son province remained in place.

Satellite photos showed that thick smoke caused by forest fires and the burning of farmland in Burma was being blown into northern provinces of Thailand

The air quality in Mae Hong Son, Chiang Rai and Chiang Mai provinces has now deteriorated and reached a level that would affect people's health, said Deputy Prime Minister and Social Development and Human Security Minister Paiboon Wattanasiritham.

Please follow the above Bangkok Post link for the rest of the story. For copyright reasons, we can not include it all here.

[p1p]

> If I spoke Thai, I would call the municipal hotline; not an option. Any comments/suggestions?

Learn Thai, or find an assertive Thai/English speaker?

Chanchao, I find myself confused!

Please help me by using the "Quote" or "Reply" functions at the bottom of posts to which you wish to refer. I was about to post that I have heard you speak very good Thai, before I read the rest of your post ......

[jackr]

sorry too long to read all , but human had been known or rather life had been known to live in extreme condition -

so this is so far just a hair on the cow

Are you Thai by any chance?

[Austhaied]

sorry too long to read all , but human had been known or rather life had been known to live in extreme condition -

so this is so far just a hair on the cow

Are you Thai by any chance?

He's a Singaporean and a nice bloke as well..

[Jai Dee]

Smog situation in the North worsened by smog from Myanmar

Minister of Social Development and Human Security instructs officials to inspect the Northern smog situation from a bird's view on a plane after the situation has escalated.

Minister of Social Development and Human Security, Paiboon Wattanasiritham discloses that the smog situation in the three Northern provinces has continuously deteriorated and has more severe effect on the residents. Latest statistics conducted yesterday (March, 25th) at 15.00 hrs shows that the amount of dust in Mae Hong Son Province has increased from 89 micrograms to 174. Chiang Mai province was measured at 171 micrograms, an increase from 115 micrograms. Lampang Province was measured at 115 micrograms, increasing from 91 micrograms. The air pollution condition in Lampang is still considered normal.

The minister says further that key factors attributing to the deteriorating situation are the thick smog blowing from Myanmar and fires illegally set in forest and agricultural areas in the three provinces. He has instructed Md.Phongthep Wattanadet (พงษ์เทพ วรรธนะเดช), the caretaker director of the commanding center to solve the smog situation, to inspect the situation in the three provinces by plane.

Md.Phongthep will present his report on the inspection to the center’s meeting today (March, 26th). His report will focus on the uncontrolled factor which is the smog from Myanmar. As for the fires illegally set in forest and agricultural areas, Mr Paiboon says the ministry will discuss this problem with the Interior Ministry again. He also reports that residents in Mae Hong Son have constructed 809 dams to add more moisture to the air and soil. The dams are also made in honor of His Majesty the King.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 26 March 2007

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Smog situation in the North worsened by smog from Myanmar

Minister of Social Development and Human Security instructs officials to inspect the Northern smog situation from a bird's view on a plane after the situation has escalated.

.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 26 March 2007

I think the odds of this being fixed are slim to none in the next 10 years. Seems to me the best strategy is to leave CM for upwards of 2 months in the Feb 15 to April 15th time frame. At a minimum leaving for March seems like smart idea. If you drop the data from those two months then the remainder of the year is reasonable air quality.

I was all hot to leave Thailand but as I researched other places like Costa Rica, Argentina, Brazil, Malaysia then I realize for 10 months a year its pretty good lifestyle here when many factors are considered.

[Loom]

Agreed completely cobra, Chiang Mai is a writeoff in Feb/Mar. Surprises me that the intl. schools stay open at this time.

Decades ago other countries recognized that the costs in terms of loss in productivity, investment, tourist spending and health care were far greater than the cost of taking concrete steps to discourage unneccessary burning. Must be the cost / benefit calculations show that Thailand's a different case.

[lannarebirth]

why does some peoble always copypaste a long story like that...

dont they think we read it the first time??

Yeah, sorry about that. Didn't cut and paste, merely hit "reply", but I take your point.

[p1p]

Decades ago other countries recognized that the costs in terms of loss in productivity, investment, tourist spending and health care were far greater than the cost of taking concrete steps to discourage unneccessary burning. Must be the cost / benefit calculations show that Thailand's a different case.

Has anybody ever heard of Thailand undertaking any form of cost/benefit analysis - except when Mr Big sits back and says "The scanning equipment will cost X Billion so I can benefit by Y hundred million."

True cost/benefit analysis is only undertaken in a predominantly honest society, not a kleptocracy like here.

[Loom]

Decades ago other countries recognized that the costs in terms of loss in productivity, investment, tourist spending and health care were far greater than the cost of taking concrete steps to discourage unneccessary burning. Must be the cost / benefit calculations show that Thailand's a different case.

Has anybody ever heard of Thailand undertaking any form of cost/benefit analysis - except when Mr Big sits back and says "The scanning equipment will cost X Billion so I can benefit by Y hundred million."

True cost/benefit analysis is only undertaken in a predominantly honest society, not a kleptocracy like here.

Yes, but if they were really acting in their own best interest wouldn't they use this as an opportunity to create some standard of what's unnecessary burning and impose penalties. The fines could be a lucrative new source of revenues.

[davidgtr]

Would the scaremonger alarmist doomsday guys who keep complaining about how dangerous & unhealthy it is to live here - please get a life.

Yeah I know the pollution has been / is a serious problem, but if that's all you're going to focus on I really have to wonder what the hel_l are you doing here. Surely there must be some other perfect pristine place in the world that has all the western creature comforts you need for a cheap 3rd world price that wont ever impinge upon a comfortable sterile lifestyle for 12 months of every year, year in year out.

Yeah the air has been bad this year for an extended period, but I personally don’t think the smoke has been a great deal worse than any other bad year. What’s happened this time seems to be the serious inversion trapping all the shit in the Cnx valley & all the other valleys in the north!

I’ve seen worse fires & smoke in other years. But it has not been trapped & hung around for so long. Eventually it goes away once we get a bit of rain. Once you’ve been here awhile you sort of get used to it & the unhealthy couple of months involved.

This time round we’ve had abnormal weather. A longer than normal dry season – the last real rain was in October. It should have rained a bit in any month since then, but we’ve had zilch, so the vegetation is extra dry. Now there’s been no “mango rains” yet, so it is even drier. Then we have the serious inversion to cap it all off & make lots of unhappy squealing farang.

If you guys want to live here long term, you’re going to have to get used to the dry season “inconvenience” of smoke & pollution. It aint going to go away at the frenzied clicks of your computer mouse.

The locals have been burning off like this for generations – they’ve always done it & been inconvenienced by the smoke for a few days / weeks when it’s peaked, & probably always will. They won’t change just because of 1 really bad year with abnormal weather conditions. Some years because of the (good wet) weather you hardly even notice it, as it is just miserable for 7-10 days. But it was not this year.

Its bloody silly IMHO if you think you can educate the locals overnight into no burning & high healthy environmental standards like you get back home. It aint gonna happen in the next 4 or 5 years, so get real. Perhaps in 3-4 years you might be able effect some improvement, but first the locals have to be convinced how to go about it “the farang way”, and then you’re going to need an effective waste disposal system for the refuse they burn, plus some alternative agricultural ideas to convince them they don’t need to burn the bush to clear land / fertilize the soil. Any of this is going to take time - a few years to educate the people & set in place some real alternatives.

Now a lot of the serious pollution in the valley is from dust & motor vehicle fumes. The north of Thailand is booming with thousands of new construction projects, plus thousands of new vehicles on the road every month. These are not going away in the next few months or years, so don’t expect any improvement in the near future – only more favourable weather might do the trick in the short term. If you saw what happened a few days ago – we had significantly cleaner air for 48 hrs, then puff, it was all back again. That wasn’t someone flicking the switch with fires & dust evaporating, but favourable weather letting all the crap blow away. Then it all changed & we’re back the same again. Let out a big whoopee when the first real heavy rains come & the air clears up almost immediately. Then enjoy life until the next smoky dry season comes.

Meanwhile take a look at this little beauty below.

Then think how did we all survive & get this far.

Congratulations To All The Kids Who Were Born In The

1920's, 30's 40's, 50's, 60's and 70’s!!

First, we survived being born to mothers who smoked and/or drank while they carried us and lived in houses made of asbestos.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese, tuna from a can, and didn't get tested for diabetes or cervical cancer.

Then after that trauma, our baby cribs were covered with bright colored lead-based paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles, doors or cabinets and when we rode our bikes, we had no helmets or shoes, not to mention, the risks we took hitchhiking

As children, we would ride in cars with no seat belts or air bags.

Riding in the back of a Ute on a warm day was always a special treat.

We drank water from the garden hose and not from a bottle.

Take away food was limited to fish and chips, no pizza shops, McDonalds, KFC, Subway or Red Rooster.

Even though all the shops closed at 6.00pm and didn't open on the weekends, somehow we didn't starve to death!

We shared one soft drink with four friends, from one bottle and no one actually died from this.

We could collect old drink bottles and cash them in at the corner store and buy fruit tingles and some crackers to blow up frogs with.

We ate cupcakes, white bread and real butter and drank soft drinks with sugar in it, but we weren't overweight because......

We Were Always Outside Playing!!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day, as long as we were back when the streetlights came on.

No one was able to reach us all day. And we were O.K.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps and then ride down the hill, only to find out we forgot the brakes. We built tree houses and cubby houses and played in creek beds with matchbox cars.

We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's, X-boxes, no video games at all, no 99 channels on cable, no video tape movies, no surround sound, no mobile phones, no personal computers, no Internet or Internet chat rooms.......... WE HAD FRIENDS and we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth and there were no

Lawsuits from these accidents.

Only girls had pierced ears!

We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt, and the worms did not live in us forever.

You could only buy Easter Eggs and Hot Cross buns at Easter time.......no really!

We were given BB guns and slingshots for our 10th birthdays,

We drank milk laced with Strontium 90 from cows that had eaten grass covered in nuclear fallout from the atomic testing at Maralinga in 1956.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and knocked on the door or rang the bell, or just yelled for them!

Mum didn't have to go to work to help dad make ends meet!

Footy had tryouts and not everyone made the team. Those who didn't had to learn to deal with disappointment. Imagine that!!

Our teachers used to belt us with big sticks and leather straps and bullies always ruled the playground at school.

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law was unheard of. They actually sided with the law!

Our parents got married before they had children and didn't invent stupid names for their kids like "Kiora" and "Blade

This generation has produced some of the best risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!

The past 70 years have been an explosion of innovation and new ideas.

We had freedom, failure, success and responsibility, and we learned

How To Deal With It All!

And YOU are one of them!

Congratulations!

You might want to share this with others who have had the luck to grow up as kids, before the lawyers and the government regulated our lives for our own good.

And while you are at it, forward it to your kids so they will know how brave their parents were.

Come on guys, get a life.

[p1p]

Would the scaremonger alarmist doomsday guys who keep complaining ..... SNURP.....

Come on guys, get a life.

David - nice post. That quoted piece somehow always puts me in mind of Kipling's "If" Many of the sentiments are similar.

However, as I sit here sneezing and coughing, I would like to plead for those of us who have made our lives in Chiang Mai and hope to remain here until the end, (likely to be sooner than wanted due to said smog). The smog is a legitimate concern, worthy of discussion on the forum.

Nobody expects anything to happen soon regarding any form of a cure for our problems. But it doesn't hurt to have a bit of a moan and discuss possibilites. Never know. Maybe some member of the powers that be might even get a lackey to read it for him and be persuaded to take some kind of action. (Won't happen, but we can dream.)

I have already stated my thoughts regarding possibly moving away from here. It won't happen becaude the roots are too deep, and the wife would not accept it. But I can dream about that too.

Most of us have lives, and we still enjoy debate and discussion, whether pointless or otherwise.

[Ta22]

yawn - mirror have two side , one that show others but one that show yourself ,

this is just a cry cycle , one cry wolf one cry fool .

haze or smog , live of die sooner shall we recognize , that life alone lead no where , crying slove no problem alike .

he say no more this and that , she say i am fine ok . why not we all just sit back , enjoy the day and relax .

A moment of imperfection

Ta22

Edited March 26, 2007 by Ta22

[p1p]

yawn - mirror have two side , one that show others but one that show yourself ,

this is just a cry cycle , one cry wolf one cry fool .

haze or smog , live of die sooner shall we recognize , that life alone lead no where , crying slove no problem alike .

he say no more this and that , she say i am fine ok . why not we all just sit back , enjoy the day and relax .

A moment of imperfection

Ta22

Strewth Tatutu. I only wish I could get a supply of whatever it is you are smoking. As long as it is legal, we could make a bomb....

[Loom]

My wife is a landowner in Chiang Mai and we were thinking about a semi-retirement relocation to the area especially because of the international schools. But we'll stay where we are now or go where the government does recognize the health and economic issues related to excessive pollution as long as our kid's education is a concern.

The smog problem in Chiang Mai is only apparent for two or three months of the year. But I wouldn't want to rent or buy a place to live next to threats that are more visible like power plants or a refineries either. It's a risk that's not immediately apparent like the difference between the safety of riding in a car with a seat belt or a motorcycle until the odds catch up with you.

Third world is a good way to describe the problem and the attitudes allowing the problem to persist. Leave it to a first world country's forum to discuss alternatives like methanol production.

[Bananaman]

Yeah I know the pollution has been / is a serious problem, but if that's all you're going to focus on I really have to wonder what the hel_l are you doing here. Surely there must be some other perfect pristine place in the world that has all the western creature comforts you need for a cheap 3rd world price that wont ever impinge upon a comfortable sterile lifestyle for 12 months of every year, year in year out.

Relocation isn't a reasonable option for some folk ie. those with families and other responsibilties.

Yeah the air has been bad this year for an extended period, but I personally don’t think the smoke has been a great deal worse than any other bad year.

Lung cancer figures 6 times the world average....does that make for any good years?

Its bloody silly IMHO if you think you can educate the locals overnight into no burning & high healthy environmental standards like you get back home. It aint gonna happen in the next 4 or 5 years, so get real. Perhaps in 3-4 years you might be able effect some improvement, but first the locals have to be convinced how to go about it “the farang way”, and then you’re going to need an effective waste disposal system for the refuse they burn, plus some alternative agricultural ideas to convince them they don’t need to burn the bush to clear land / fertilize the soil. Any of this is going to take time - a few years to educate the people & set in place some real alternatives.

“A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.” Lao Tzu

[Ta22]

Dear p1p - thi sis the smog thread , and what ever i am smoking would be haze

[jackr]

sorry too long to read all , but human had been known or rather life had been known to live in extreme condition -

so this is so far just a hair on the cow

Are you Thai by any chance?

He's a Singaporean and a nice bloke as well..

Hey, that's great... the city is 'under siege' from H3ll's ass but Ta22's a nice bloke. I feel so much better, thanks!

[Austhaied]

sorry too long to read all , but human had been known or rather life had been known to live in extreme condition -

so this is so far just a hair on the cow

Are you Thai by any chance?

He's a Singaporean and a nice bloke as well..

Hey, that's great... the city is 'under siege' from H3ll's ass but Ta22's a nice bloke. I feel so much better, thanks! :D

About all it's "under siege" from is A holes.