NZ bans semi-automatic and assault rifles after mass shooting

[Roadman]

2 hours ago, samran said:

I don't see a problem with most of what you said. They are a tool, and if you have a legitmate need for it (hunting, sport, farmer) then I don't think its an issue. To that extent, I suspect the law will reflect the Australian one, given that Australia and NZ have regular 'council of ministers' and try to harmonize their regulations wherever they can.

 

Where I don't disagree with you is this is a knee jerk reaction. There is lots of evidence that this is the right thing to do, and NZ has tried to pass these law three times in the past 20 years, but have been stymied by pro-gun opposition. You could argue that they are being opportunistic in passing them now, as the public will be 300% behind the changes, but I guess, that is politics.

Correct.

And the debate of the use of semi automatic rifles for the highest use of them in NZ of hunting was going on long before the Thorp report and police attempts at controlling MASSA's have been defeated by weak governments and high court rulings. I was learning to hunt back before the start of the deer cull/live capture explosion. We all learnt the art of the hunt and learning to take or reject a kill with a single shot. Back then as semi automatic weapons began appearing the saying became are you out to shot a deer or weight the bloody thing down with lead. 

This is no knee jerk reaction but rather finally the line has been crossed to finally pass beyond all the failed attempts at that control. 

[DoctorG]

The NZ PM enacted this today by regulation. She said semi-autos could be obtained by special permit, but do not bother applying for one ????

[lannarebirth]

3 hours ago, Psimbo said:

3 hours ago, Psimbo said:

 

I see nothing wrong with shotguns and bolt-action rifles being licensed and used by the general public- others may differ. Hunters do pay a part in maintaining the environment despite what lentil eaters may think, and it is part of the culture. I see absolutely NO reason for ANY civilian to have, or try to justify the need for, a military style assault weapon.

 

 

 

Nor do I. I can't even imagine why anyone would need something more in the way of weaponry.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

Not what happened in the UK. Very draconian penalties for gun possession. Get caught with a gun, 5 years. And yes, if you don't surrender your gun you will get a visit and a jail sentence. The majority of guns in the hands of criminals came via thefts/burglaries from law abiding citizens. Remove guns from society and you remove guns from criminals.

 

Gun crime has reduced dramatically. Mass shootings down to zero.

 

As for the constitution, constitutions can be changed.

 

Can you provide a link that shows the majority of guns in the hands of criminals came via thefts and burglaries from law abiding citizens please?

 

I'd read several times that most guns in the hands of criminals in the UK came predominantly via the Armed Forces. 

[ShortTimed]

Knee Jerk Decision is defined as, “ react to things emotionally, without the use of our good sense and reason, and then have to live with the consequences.”

 

A case could easily be made this decision was made when emotions are incredibly high.

 

There is a saying, “when calmer heads prevail”.

 

At the end of the day this mass murderer would have chosen some other method in the absence of firearm access just like terrorists everywhere.

 

BTW, how many firearms are now determined to be in the country that will be affected by this legislation? How many years will it take to remove them all?

 

There is a saying at the mine I work at:

 

“One guy craps his britches and now everybody has to wear diapers”.

[roo860]

Not what happened in the UK. Very draconian penalties for gun possession. Get caught with a gun, 5 years. And yes, if you don't surrender your gun you will get a visit and a jail sentence. The majority of guns in the hands of criminals came via thefts/burglaries from law abiding citizens. Remove guns from society and you remove guns from criminals.
 
Gun crime has reduced dramatically. Mass shootings down to zero.
 
As for the constitution, constitutions can be changed.

'And yes, if you don't surrender your gun you will get a visit and a jail sentence.'
When do you need to surrender your gun, and for what reason?

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[PREM-R]

35 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Can you provide a link that shows the majority of guns in the hands of criminals came via thefts and burglaries from law abiding citizens please?

 

I'd read several times that most guns in the hands of criminals in the UK came predominantly via the Armed Forces. 

Although you are taking the thread 'off topic' here is your link.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44053904

[sonos99]

1 minute ago, roo860 said:

'And yes, if you don't surrender your gun you will get a visit and a jail sentence.'
When do you need to surrender your gun, and for what reason?

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Today in NZ they have reclassified semi auto rifles and shotgun that can take a detachable magazine capable of more than 5 shots. They are now classified as MSSA weapons and require a Category E license to legally own. Therefore these weapons are illegal for Category A license holders to own. They also cannot be sold to Category A license holders. The owners of these weapons currently have an amnesty but must arrange for them to be collected by police. I do not know the time period for the amnesty. They will be compensated at some stage. 

 

Legislation will follow in due course. 

[ShortTimed]

Although you are taking the thread 'off topic' here is your link.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-44053904

 

I just read your link and can’t find the part that supports you claim stolen guns are the number one source over ex-military weapons.

 

It looks like you are both right

 

Fortunately NZ is more like Canada and lacks a large criminal element.

[roo860]

Today in NZ they have reclassified semi auto rifles and shotgun that can take a detachable magazine capable of more than 5 shots. They are now classified as MSSA weapons and require a Category E license to legally own. Therefore these weapons are illegal for Category A license holders to own. They also cannot be sold to Category A license holders. The owners of these weapons currently have an amnesty but must arrange for them to be collected by police. I do not know the time period for the amnesty. They will be compensated at some stage. 
 
Legislation will follow in due course. 

I was replying to some who stated this about the UK gun controls.

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[sonos99]

2 minutes ago, roo860 said:

I was replying to some who stated this about the UK gun controls.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Apologies 

[PREM-R]

6 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

I just read your link and can’t find the part that supports you claim stolen guns are the number one source over ex-military weapons.

Fortunately NZ is more like Canada and lacks a large criminal element.

I made no claim about guns, I was merely responding to Beer Boxer who wrote " I'd read several times that most guns in the hands of criminals in the UK came predominantly via the Armed Forces."   The BBC article seems to contradict this.  

[ShortTimed]

Today in NZ they have reclassified semi auto rifles and shotgun that can take a detachable magazine capable of more than 5 shots. They are now classified as MSSA weapons and require a Category E license to legally own. Therefore these weapons are illegal for Category A license holders to own. They also cannot be sold to Category A license holders. The owners of these weapons currently have an amnesty but must arrange for them to be collected by police. I do not know the time period for the amnesty. They will be compensated at some stage. 
 
Legislation will follow in due course. 

I don’t understand how this can be enforced if it is not legislation.

Is it an equivalent of Executive Order?

In NZ, can this be challenged in their Courts?

[sonos99]

3 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

I don’t understand how this can be enforced if it is not legislation.

Is it an equivalent of Executive Order?

In NZ, can this be challenged in their Courts?

 

I haven't checked but maybe under the current legislation the govt can reclassify the weapons or add new weapon classes. It is called an Order in Council. As for being challenged I don't know. 

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, Longcut said:

In America, it is a constitutional right to own guns. Can't just pass a law to ban them just because you want to.

It was your constitutional right to own slaves. That particular amendment was repealed. The same could be done for the right to bear arms.

[Spidey]

1 hour ago, DoctorG said:

The NZ PM enacted this today by regulation. She said semi-autos could be obtained by special permit, but do not bother applying for one ????

The NZ PM has just announced that this is only the first phase of gun law reformation, it will go much further. It sounds like she is wanting reforms similar to the UK. Expect hand guns to be history.

[sonos99]

7 minutes ago, sonos99 said:

I haven't checked but maybe under the current legislation the govt can reclassify the weapons or add new weapon classes. It is called an Order in Council. As for being challenged I don't know. 

The Order in Council is signed by the Governor General. I believe it is usually used for administrative purposes so they don't have to legislate each time there is a minor change. 

[ShortTimed]

It was your constitutional right to own slaves. That particular amendment was repealed. The same could be done for the right to bear arms.

 

My history is a little rusty but wasn’t a civil war necessary to get that amendment ratified?

 

How many lives were lost in that War?

[Vacuum]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

New Zealand will ban military style semi-automatic and assault rifles

How about banning semi-citizens?

[sonos99]

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The NZ PM has just announced that this is only the first phase of gun law reformation, it will go much further. It sounds like she is wanting reforms similar to the UK. Expect hand guns to be history.

Handguns are already quite strictly controlled. You cannot legally own one on a Catagory A license. You need a special endorsement on your license. Usually only allowed for approved and sponsored target shooters

[ShortTimed]

How about banning semi-citizens?

Interesting.

Had the rules on gun ownership been restricted to NZ citizens, would this shooter have had legal access to his 5 firearms?

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

My history is a little rusty but wasn’t a civil war necessary to get that amendment ratified?

 

How many lives were lost in that War?

OK. How about the repeal of the 18th Amendment, prohibition? I believe that was repealed by popular demand.

[ShortTimed]

I made no claim about guns, I was merely responding to Beer Boxer who wrote " I'd read several times that most guns in the hands of criminals in the UK came predominantly via the Armed Forces."   The BBC article seems to contradict this.  

My apology.
BaerBoxer had requested Spidey provide a supporting link and you had simply stepped up with one.

Sorry.

[sonos99]

2 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

Interesting.

Had the rules on gun ownership been restricted to NZ citizens, would this shooter have had legal access to his 5 firearms?

 

I believe this is an area they are looking at. I believe Overseas hunters can obtain a license at the airport (issued by the police) and can use it to use a weapon in NZ provided by an outfitter. I think they can also use it to purchase a weapon in NZ but I'm not positive about that. Not sure what checks are required 

[ShortTimed]

OK. How about the repeal of the 18th Amendment, prohibition? I believe that was repealed by popular demand.

Shoot Spidey you sure are tenacious ;-)

I don’t know much about that one but did a majority of Americans really vote against access to booze?

You wouldn’t find that silliness in Canada! Lol

Very civil discussion on this thread.
I hope the best for NZ.
One of the finest countries remaining.

[Spidey]

6 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

Shoot Spidey you sure are tenacious ????

I don’t know much about that one but did a majority of Americans really vote against access to booze?

You wouldn’t find that silliness in Canada! Lol

Very civil discussion on this thread.
I hope the best for NZ.
One of the finest countries remaining.

 

No they campaigned to repeal the booze ban.

 

AS for NZ, their PM has proved to be a politician without peers. Banning guns isn't exactly a vote winner. How many politicians would do the right thing rather than think about their position at the next election? Massive kudos to the lady. The UK could do with her to sort out the Brexit debacle.

[Kieran00001]

40 minutes ago, Vacuum said:

How about banning semi-citizens?

 

Given the comments on here it is genuinely surprising that some of these people made it out of their village, let alone all the way to Thailand, I don't want to prevent them though, I think their insular way of thinking is cute.

Edited March 21, 2019 by Kieran00001

[Vacuum]

7 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Given the comments on here it is genuinely surprising that some of these people made it out of their village, let alone all the way to Thailand, I don't want to prevent them though, I think their insular way of thinking is cute.

I take it that you're a NZ citizen.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, ShortTimed said:

Knee Jerk Decision is defined as, “ react to things emotionally, without the use of our good sense and reason, and then have to live with the consequences.”

 

A case could easily be made this decision was made when emotions are incredibly high.

 

There is a saying, “when calmer heads prevail”.

 

At the end of the day this mass murderer would have chosen some other method in the absence of firearm access just like terrorists everywhere.

 

BTW, how many firearms are now determined to be in the country that will be affected by this legislation? How many years will it take to remove them all?

 

There is a saying at the mine I work at:

 

“One guy craps his britches and now everybody has to wear diapers”.

I guess in the absence of guns he could have run riot with a sharpened spoon.

[roo860]

Today in NZ they have reclassified semi auto rifles and shotgun that can take a detachable magazine capable of more than 5 shots. They are now classified as MSSA weapons and require a Category E license to legally own. Therefore these weapons are illegal for Category A license holders to own. They also cannot be sold to Category A license holders. The owners of these weapons currently have an amnesty but must arrange for them to be collected by police. I do not know the time period for the amnesty. They will be compensated at some stage. 
 
Legislation will follow in due course. 

Good to see someone knows the gun laws in NZ, unlike a poster on this thread who doesn't know the UK gun laws.

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