NZ bans semi-automatic and assault rifles after mass shooting

[Anythingleft?]

Statistics, as shown can, and will be, bent and skewed to the advantage of the person representing them in a debate with enough diligence to find the right references

From the views of the police bodies and the statistics they gather, gun crime has been on a quite major increase for the last 3 to 4 years
Mainly imported and sold by our Eastern European friends who have seemingly limitless supplies from past war caches

The rate of rise will soon overtake the past trends since the gun laws were revised in 97
Already posted is the way the report data has been reformatted since before and after the law was revised

I do not believe that gun laws work, in the same way that I do not believe drug laws work, at least not in their present form

Cars and trucks, drones, there is no end of possibilities when the mindset is there....

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk

[Kieran00001]

52 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it's not written it does not have any validity when it comes down to it.

 

You've just got to laugh sometimes.  What is it that you think is not written?

[jimmyyy]

Great now only the criminals with have them.  That always works out don't it.

[Kieran00001]

48 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

Great now only the criminals with have them.  That always works out don't it.

 

Name somewhere that gun control has not worked out.

[ShortTimed]

 

Name somewhere that gun control has not worked out.

 

Venezuela.

 

Well it didn’t work out well for the citizens because they have no way to overthrow their dictator but it has worked out quite well for Maduro.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.  

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, sonos99 said:

There have already been 2 investigations into the weapons situation in NZ. There was an independent review requested by the govt which was performed by a retired judge - the Thorp Report in 1997. More recently 2016 a review of the gun laws was performed by a parliamentary committee. 

I do not know what was in those reports, but apparently they did not recommend banning anything, as nothing was banned then.

There will probably be a thorough investigation of the shooting ( be interesting to learn why the "intelligence service" didn't have a clue about this guy ) and it could be expanded to cover all weapons.

Some people need such weapons to do their work ( culling feral herds ), so I hope the baby does not get thrown out with the bathwater, or parts of NZ are going to be destroyed by those animals.

I don't care if semi auto rifles are banned, but I know it won't stop a single gang member having as many as they want, and I'm a lot more concerned about them, than some angry guy using one against me.

[sonos99]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I do not know what was in those reports, but apparently they did not recommend banning anything, as nothing was banned then.

There will probably be a thorough investigation of the shooting ( be interesting to learn why the "intelligence service" didn't have a clue about this guy ) and it could be expanded to cover all weapons.

Some people need such weapons to do their work ( culling feral herds ), so I hope the baby does not get thrown out with the bathwater, or parts of NZ are going to be destroyed by those animals.

I don't care if semi auto rifles are banned, but I know it won't stop a single gang member having as many as they want, and I'm a lot more concerned about them, than some angry guy using one against me.

I believe a number of recommendations were made but only a few were adopted by the government. 

 

Adern has already announced a full investigation into the terrorist attack. 

 

Adern has already mentioned exceptions for those who use such weapons for culling such as the Department of Conservation. 

 

Gang members cannot legally purchased any weapons but they of course will still find a way to obtain weapons illegally. 

[sonos99]

If anyone is interested here is a report outlining the recommendations of the NZ Parliamentary Committee and listing those that were accepted or rejected by the government at the time. 

 

https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-response-firearms-select-committee-report

[ShortTimed]

If anyone is interested here is a report outlining the recommendations of the NZ Parliamentary Committee and listing those that were accepted or rejected by the government at the time. 
 
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/government-response-firearms-select-committee-report

Those Kiwis actually have a Gov’t that works.
This is common-sense legislation.

[sonos99]

3 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

Those Kiwis actually have a Gov’t that works.
This is common-sense legislation.

 

I'm not sure what will be included in the new legislation but I suspect that some of the other recommendations that were rejected in 2017 will be included. 

 

 

[ShortTimed]

I'm not sure what will be included in the new legislation but I suspect that some of the other recommendations that were rejected in 2017 will be included. 
 
 

I understand what you are saying.

I see that 2017 legislation as being very level-headed and input from gun groups were a part of the conversation.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[ShortTimed]

Please don't hit 'em with logic..
 
You are addressing a representative of a nation that believes that "Dumb and Dumber" is a sequel to "Groundhog Day"
 
Because that is all they have got-apart from "thoughts and prayers.."

You are forgetting they also have plenty of gun laws on the books but minimal enforcement.

[samran]

15 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Please don't hit 'em with logic..

 

You are addressing a representative of a nation that believes that "Dumb and Dumber" is a sequel to "Groundhog Day"

 

Because that is all they have got-apart from "thoughts and prayers.."

 

Well after each massacre, it’s a bit like listening to a looped recording:

 

1 thoughts and prayers 

2 emotions are still running high, it’s still to early to talk about reform

3 if there was a just a cleaner/janitor/student/teacher armed to the teeth then none of his would have happened 

4 gun control doesn’t work

5 Chicago, Venezuela 

6 SOCIALISM!!!

7 LIBERTY!!!

8 It was all a false flag event anyway

9 There is nothing we can do to stop these terrible events

.

.

.

many people dead

.

.

please refer to 1  

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, sonos99 said:

I believe a number of recommendations were made but only a few were adopted by the government. 

 

Adern has already announced a full investigation into the terrorist attack. 

 

Adern has already mentioned exceptions for those who use such weapons for culling such as the Department of Conservation. 

 

Gang members cannot legally purchased any weapons but they of course will still find a way to obtain weapons illegally. 

I find it interesting that it is now a "terrorist attack". Has it been claimed by any terrorist group? I have not heard if it has been.

Prior to that, he was merely a nutter, insane, etc.

Has it been established beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't just the action of a very angry person acting alone?

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Has it been established beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't just the action of a very angry person acting alone?

There have been several terrorist attacks in the UK perpetrated by someone acting alone. However, they all claimed some allegiance to ISIS, but weren't actively supported by ISIS.

 

The attacker, in this case, had an allegiance to white supremacist groups an has claimed he made the attack in the name of white people against Muslim immigrants. That makes it a terrorist attack. It doesn't have to be a named group making the attack in an organised way.

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I find it interesting that it is now a "terrorist attack". Has it been claimed by any terrorist group? I have not heard if it has been.

Prior to that, he was merely a nutter, insane, etc.

Has it been established beyond reasonable doubt that it wasn't just the action of a very angry person acting alone?

As soon as Dubya announced that the US would stand in solidarity with anyone against terrorism it was open slather for demonising others as "terrorists" - hence the phrase "My freedom fighter is your terrorist".  First cab off the rank was, inevitably, Putin who lost no time in labeling the Chechen freedom fighters as "terrorists".  That's not to say that "freedom fighters" won't use terrorist tactics. However it's a working hypothesis that an attack against a group of unarmed individuals in the name of an ideology or purported ideology (such as "Islamophobia") constitutes a terrorist attack and that certainly seems to be the sense in which the Christchurch event is being described

[sonos99]

He had a political manifesto

 

Committed a violent act in pursuit of political aims

 

His actions seem to fit with the defns I can find 

[ShortTimed]

Its interesting the evolution of the term, “Terrorist” Attack in the last several years.

 

Even Port Arthur was called a “mass shooting” and “massacre” but not terrorist attack at the time.

 

The US looks to have used the term the longest atleast as far back as the Oklahoma City bomber who was described as a domestic terrorist and the event a terrorist bombing.

 

I think the definition was originally modified to allow for a category of more serious charges and penalties but I don’t know about NZ.

 

But, I think “nutter” fits best with the NZ mass shooting and places the emphasis on the primary motivator—crazy for cocoapuffs. Just my own opinion.

 

I have not read this NZ shooter had any history of white power and whats with his travel to North Korea and Pakistan? Not exactly ground zero of Aryan groups.

 

 

 

 

[samran]

8 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

I have not read this NZ shooter had any history of white power and whats with his travel to North Korea and Pakistan? Not exactly ground zero of Aryan groups.

 

 

 

 

He donated 'allegedly' money to the Austria far right:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111572559/austrian-activists-home-searched-over-ties-to-christchurch-mosque-shooting-suspect

 

His trips to Turkey and the balkans were to apparently visit sites where muslims battled Christians.

[ShortTimed]

He donated 'allegedly' money to the Austria far right:https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111572559/austrian-activists-home-searched-over-ties-to-christchurch-mosque-shooting-suspect  

His trips to Turkey and the balkans were to apparently visit sites where muslims battled Christians.

 

 

  

Thanks for the info on his Turkey trips.

 

There is no doubt he claimed allegiance to white power nazi ideology but it was recent.

 

I think he was a nutter first who found a way to express it adapting to this white power ideology but that is a 2¢ opinion.

 

Unlike many religious terrorists whose motivation can be traced back to long held beliefs. Again this has a value of 2¢.

 

 

[sonos99]

I'm sure that Muslims regard it as a terrorist attack. 

 

Here's an article from the Washington Post 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/is-it-terrorism-post-nz-attack-muslims-see-double-standard/2019/03/24/67b41d58-4e1c-11e9-bdb7-44f948cc0605_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d6a6cec9da0f

 

 

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

8 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

There is no doubt he claimed allegiance to white power nazi ideology but it was recent.

 

I think he was a nutter first who found a way to express it adapting to this white power philosophy but that is a 2¢ opinion.

 

Unlike many religious terrorists whose motivation can be traced back to long held beliefs. Again this has a value of 2¢.

They are all 'nutters' if you think about it. Who in their right mind would go out one day and kill 20, 30, 50 people?

Whether they be white supremacists, ISIS members or the Tomothy McVeighs of the world, extremist doctrine is well documentation to attract the mentally unstable. It gives purpose to their psychosis and in their mind excuses their actions. This is why it's so dangerous and has to be called out every time and not just put down to another 'nutter'. 

 

  

[ShortTimed]

They are all 'nutters' if you think about it. Who in their right mind would go out one day and kill 20, 30, 50 people?

Whether they be white supremacists, ISIS members or the Tomothy McVeighs of the world, extremist doctrine is well documentation to attract the mentally unstable. It gives purpose to their psychosis and in their mind excuses their actions. This is why it's so dangerous and has to be called out every time and not just put down to another 'nutter'. 

 

 

I don’t agree with some inferences being made in this article but it does show that muslims do feel persecuted.

 

For example:

“It’s really important that this attack not be dismissed as some crazy lone wolf, isolated incident,” said Dalia Mogahed, who leads research at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, “

 

BUT IT WAS A LONE WOLF ATTACK and it was isolated.

 

There are very likely fairly large segments of society that are not overly pleased with the increase of various new minority groups in their community but they don’t advocate killing them. That is how “nutters” differ.

 

There is not a Church and an Imam telling them its their Jihad and which mainstream society is turning a blind eye to, unlike examples in Islamic culture.

 

But I could care a less if he is labeled a nutter or a terrorist. His actions are reprehensible either way and the penalty society will enact on him will be the same.

[johnnybangkok]

13 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

I don’t agree with some inferences being made in this article but it does show that muslims do feel persecuted.

For example:
“It’s really important that this attack not be dismissed as some crazy lone wolf, isolated incident,” said Dalia Mogahed, who leads research at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, “

BUT IT WAS A LONE WOLF ATTACK.

 

As has many ISIS (and before that Al Queda) atrocities, bombings and attacks so what's your point? 

[ShortTimed]

As has many ISIS (and before that Al Queda) atrocities, bombings and attacks so what's your point? 

Uh...I already said it and you already quoted it.

My point was he acted alone.

[ShortTimed]

They are all 'nutters' if you think about it. Who in their right mind would go out one day and kill 20, 30, 50 people?   

  

 

 

 Who?

 

Those who are on religious Jihad.

 

I do not see any Western country hiding these white power members like Pakistan did Osama after he masterminded 9/11 which killed many 1,000’s of innocent lives.

 

 

 

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

Those who are on religious Jihad.

Can you have a non-religious Jihad?

[ShortTimed]

Can you have a non-religious Jihad?

Lol
You should direct this question to Wikipedia:

DescriptionJihad is an Arabic word which literally means striving or struggling, especially with a praiseworthy aim. Wikipedia