'We are one' says PM Ardern as New Zealand mourns with prayers, silence

[Scott]

Troll posts removed.   I do believe that a few members are working their way toward a lengthy suspension.   Blaming, even by inference, that these people or any group deserve to be killed isn't going to cut it.   Enough is enough.  

 

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Buddhism is not a religion but yes you are right there are few equal rights. A better measure is violence and Islam, in the modern world, takes the prize for that!

Buddhist nationalist violence is by no means insignificant. 

[Mad mick]

how much ass kissing can one do ? shes lost the plot 

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Buddhist nationalist violence is by no means insignificant. 

Yes, and I'm sure it will be news to the majority of Buddhists that theirs is not a religion.  You have only to look at the militant Buddhist monks in Burma to understand that intolerance knows no religious boundaries

[BobBKK]

7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Buddhist nationalist violence is by no means insignificant. 

Buddhist + Violence are impossible but that's not the point. Anyway we can't discuss it here it seems. I am anti-violence to anyone, of any faith, creed or race.

[BobBKK]

5 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Yes, and I'm sure it will be news to the majority of Buddhists that theirs is not a religion.  You have only to look at the militant Buddhist monks in Burma to understand that intolerance knows no religious boundaries

They are not a God-centered faith. 

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Buddhist + Violence are impossible ...

Indeed - https://theconversation.com/militant-buddhism-is-on-the-march-in-south-east-asia-where-did-it-come-from-86632

[simple1]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

Buddhist + Violence are impossible

As an example Group 969 ring any bells?

[ShortTimed]

I worked in the ME for a number of years.   I had a large staff, about 90% Muslim.   None of them prayed 5 times a day.   Most went to the Mosque only on Friday, which was a holiday.  

 

There is a call to prayer 5 times a day, but like a lot of things, it is mostly ignored.  

 

[mention=12105]Scott[/mention],

 

Thanks Man.

 

You are the first forum member who just answered my question instead of going ballistic.

 

It should be quite obvious that my knowledge of Muslims is not first hand and what I learn is from current events and media. In the last couple days I have found Quora and a couple comment sections that are first hand accounts and experiences of Kiwis, which is why a post like yours is equally helpful.

 

I even found one story by a Muslim Kiwi who is Gay which was very insightful.

 

Members on this board kept accusing me of things when all I wanted to do was learn. Thanks for stepping up.

[ShortTimed]

My perception is that ShortTimed, with a poor understanding of religions generally, is seeking to justify his singling out of Muslims for disapproval by comparing their practices and beliefs, as perceived by him, to be deficient when compared to those other religions (which he also clearly doesn't understand) - let alone his knowledge of history which is nowhere evident

 

You got one thing right.

 

I don’t know much about religions and what I know about muslims is when members of their community are making headlines.

 

Instead of finding guys wanting to help me understand, I find myself in the crossfire of guys like you who I am learning come here to let everyone know how intelligent they are. Or rather think they are.

 

As for history, its a very large topic and I know a bit. It may not overlap much with what you know but that does not give you the right to be disrespectful.

 

I find the best way to participate on a forum is to talk like you are conversing at a pub. Good natured. Instead I find this forum is full of guys who communicate in a manner that suggests they are not handling the stress of being an expat very well.

 

Your post above a perfect example.

 

[simple1]

15 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

 

You got one thing right.

 

I don’t know much about religions and what I know about muslims is when members of their community are making headlines.

 

Instead of finding guys wanting to help me understand, I find myself in the crossfire of guys like you who I am learning come here to let everyone know how intelligent they are. Or rather think they are.

 

As for history, its a very large topic and I know a bit. It may not overlap much with what you know but that does not give you the right to be disrespectful.

 

I find the best way to participate on a forum is to talk like you are conversing at a pub. Good natured. Instead I find this forum is full of guys who communicate in a manner that suggests they are not handling the stress of being an expat very well.

 

Your post above a perfect example.

 

Perhaps you should take on the lessons from the responses you have received. Your questions are atypical of people seeking confirmation of their biases. Try a different style of questioning e.g. by asking open, not closed questions.

[ShortTimed]

Perhaps you should take on the lessons from the responses you have received. Your questions are atypical of people seeking confirmation of their biases. Try a different style of questioning e.g. by asking open, not closed questions.

 

Oh yeah, sure, I’ve read your posts.

Don’t hurt yourself patting your back for being a decent sort.

 

You must be having fun if you are actually suggesting the posts you guys make are some example of all things good & right...Lol

 

Like I said, more than a few of you don’t seem to be coping well with being an expat in such a great place. You don’t seem happy or relaxed.

 

Way too much enjoyment in Thailand to spend another minute on here.

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, ThaiBunny said:

Indeed - https://theconversation.com/militant-buddhism-is-on-the-march-in-south-east-asia-where-did-it-come-from-86632

You miss the point but it's pointless debating with someone who thinks they know everything.

[BobBKK]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

As an example Group 969 ring any bells?

No Buddhist bells just nationalist fanatics who will use anything. The Dalai Lama personifies Buddhism go look him up.

 

[simple1]

2 hours ago, ShortTimed said:

 

Oh yeah, sure, I’ve read your posts.

Don’t hurt yourself patting your back for being a decent sort.

 

You must be having fun if you are actually suggesting the posts you guys make are some example of all things good & right...Lol

 

Like I said, more than a few of you don’t seem to be coping well with being an expat in such a great place. You don’t seem happy or relaxed.

 

Way too much enjoyment in Thailand to spend another minute on here.

Sure, thoroughly dislike and push back on right of centre member posts and generalised vilification / bigotry which is endemic on this forum. Been suspended a few times????

 

Your choice to reject positive input in response to your complaints. Accordingly trust no more whinging from you.

Edited March 24, 2019 by simple1

[ThaiBunny]

3 hours ago, ShortTimed said:

Oh yeah, sure, I’ve read your posts. Don’t hurt yourself patting your back for being a decent sort.

Reading your posts I was immediately struck by the similarity between the statements I read you making about Muslims, and the statements people often called Islamophobes make.  I then remembered the old saying "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck".  If you're not a duck, I apologise

[ShortTimed]

Sure, thoroughly dislike and push back on right of centre member posts and generalised vilification / bigotry which is endemic on this forum.

Grandiosity is a symptom experienced by people with bipolar disorder (BD) during manic and hypomanic episodes. People experiencing grandiose delusions often describe larger-than-life feelings of superiority and invulnerability.

[ShortTimed]

Reading your posts I was immediately struck by the similarity between the statements I read you making about Muslims, and the statements people often called Islamophobes make.  I then remembered the old saying "If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's a duck".  If you're not a duck, I apologise

Post a few of those statements there Sport.

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, ShortTimed said:

Post a few of those statements there Sport.

 

Here's a hint - if you click on a poster's name it will open their profile.  There you can see all of their posting history, so I'll quote something you posted: "the typical Muslim who pray 5 times a day and start their greetings to others with a reference to God or that kill another because of a comic about God."

[malagateddy]

Can anyone answer the following

If any one person talks to/prays to an imaginary friend..he /she is thought of as being crazy..stupid etc.

However..if a large group of people do exactly the same..it's called religion.

Methinks too many people in the world are brain-washed into believing they need some kind of " crutch " to help them thro their lifes.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ShortTimed]

Here's a hint - if you click on a poster's name it will open their profile.  There you can see all of their posting history, so I'll quote something you posted: "the typical Muslim who pray 5 times a day and start their greetings to others with a reference to God or that kill another because of a comic about God."

 

What about that is not true?

 

Charlie Hebdo killings.

Newspapers in the Western World respond by censuring their papers.

 

Maybe you should read what is happening in Indonesia in last few days. It is the largest Muslim population, correct?

And they have forced a comic about gay muslim men to be removed from Instagram. It was a comic strip that presented Gay Muslims in a healthy light but the population forced it to be suspended according to several news outlets. Why? Because they didn’t agree with the topic of the gay community.

 

That is the lack of inclusiveness I have questioned. It is specifically the questikn I asked when I said PM Arden says WE ARE ONE but is that NZ ethic shared by the Muslim community.

 

In Indonesia it appears the answer is No and no one has yet to respond about NZ. However, I did find a good article written in recent days by a Kiwi born Muslim Gay man living now in Great Britain. His article was enlightening.

 

So if the quote above is what has you all bonkers then all I can urge you to do is try and get your head out of that bad space its in because its distorting what you read.

[ThaiBunny]

4 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

What about that is not true?

 

It's not a question of whether it's true (as in, whether the attack took place - that's a fact), it's a question of whether it's used to create a stereotype. Islamophobes stereotype all Muslims as supporting the Charlie Hedbo attack, as you have done.  That's what -phobe or -ist these days commonly means - people who use stereotypes to categorise entire groups of people as being all or mostly whatever it is they're asserting

Edited March 24, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[malagateddy]

Re all the isis muslim terrorist attacks in the UK and mainland Europe the last few years..I have not heard of or read about massive condemnation of these attacks by the " top kiddies " of the islamic doctrine.
Why is that????

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ThaiBunny]

Just now, malagateddy said:

Re all the isis muslim terrorist attacks in the UK and mainland Europe the last few years..I have not heard of or read about massive condemnation of these attacks by the " top kiddies " of the islamic doctrine. Why is that????

Like most people, you see only what you expect to see. It's called "confirmation bias".

[ShortTimed]

It's not a question of whether it's true (as in, whether the attack took place - that's a fact), it's a question of whether it's used to create a stereotype. Islamophobes stereotype all Muslims as supporting the Charlie Hedbo attack, as you have done.  That's what -phobe or -ist these days commonly means - people who use stereotypes to categorise entire groups of people as being all or mostly whatever it is they're asserting

The only one using stereotypes to categorize entire groups of people as being all or mostly whatever it is they’re asserting is you in your insistence anyone who does not agree with you is a hate filled islamaphobe.

The mindset of those Hebdo murderers was shared by many in the Muslim community who become very angry when Mohamed is criticized in a comic strip. The attacks then continued at a supermarket. Maybe you need to educate yourself. Western newspapers that once believed strongly in freedom of the press now censure themselves for offending the Muslim community. They do not censure themselves for any other group of people.

But you seemed to cherry pick my last post.

Whats wrong? You afraid to address the issue in Indonesia and their intolerance of the LGBT community, eh?

You need to sort out whatever makes you not hear what posters are actually saying in their posts. When statements are supported by actual facts such as Charlie Hebdo, you are irrational when you attempt to shift the problem away from the violent facts.

[jak2002003]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 5:33 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Why not offer Christian prayers for Muslims, Christians and Muslims worship the same god. 

They would not agree with you on that one, or at least, each would say the other religion is wrong and so against god.  

[ShortTimed]

I asked a question that has resulted in my being called alot of names.

 

I asked if the Muslim community of NZ agreed with PM Ardern’s assertion that WE ARE ONE.

 

I didn’t know the first thing about NZ Muslims and if they had become more inclusive by the cultural influence that Kiwis have always had. NZ is often described as secular the same as Canada; so I wondered how a religious population like Muslims might respond to a social climate that was in opposition to the teachings of Muhammad.

 

I think I had one single response that actually helped me to understand something about Muslims in NZ. Thankyou Scott with the lightning bolt.

 

But don’t take my word for it, as someone pointed out, I don’t know much...Lol...but I do know enough to be open-minded and learn about a topic so I am one up on that guy.

 

Here is an article written by a gay Muslim man who is also a researcher and this is an account of his findings. The findings are similar to all the others I could find on the acceptance of homosexuality in the Muslim community. Do Muslims practice WE ARE ONE like Kiwis.

 

I also have a problem when I hear many Muslim women describe their role in their Muslim community as being subservient but I will just focus on this topic of the crossroad of the Muslim faith and the gay community for this post.

 

All of you liberal defenders of justice, may I ask how you simultaneously support the Muslim faith and their negative position on LGBT and womens rights?

 

http://theconversation.com/what-its-like-to-be-gay-and-a-muslim-61128

 

I also found some excellent personal comments on Quora from Kiwis and Muslims that helped me to answer the question I asked on this forum. Kiwi Muslims are more accepting and inclusive the longer they are exposed to the strong Kiwi culture of WE ARE ONE.

 

There is also a great article written by a Gay Kiwi Muslim currently living abroad in Great Britain.

 

Its disheartening to see members on this forum who espouse to be liberals but who actually just defend bullet points of the Liberal agenda and while glossing over actual facts.

 

Especially when not one of these Liberals once presented any narrative of the Kiwi Muslim community at all but only generalizations they wear so righteously as Liberals.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[ThaiBunny]

As a gay man myself I can give you my response ShortTimed - I don't give a damn what Muslims think. It's utterly irrelevant to me

[ShortTimed]

As a gay man myself I can give you my response ShortTimed - I don't give a damn what Muslims think. It's utterly irrelevant to me

 

Then you can ignore the questions and ignore me.

 

That would benefit us both.

 

But one need not disclose their sexual preference to have an equal opinion here...unless you are inferring that your being gay should give your opinion more weight than anyone elses?

 

A major battle than many LGBT have fought tirelessly for decades is equality and several of my friends hold animosity for the Catholic Church and other Western faiths that doctrines which held their rights in society back, including the most basic rights of marriage. So its odd that a green light would be given to a Muslim faith that is still practicing strong anti-LGBT doctrine. There are atleast two Muslim countries being gay can result in a death sentence. Even if that is utterly irrelevant to you, it is not so for many of the LGBT community.

 

Both those of Muslim faith and those of other.

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

Then you can ignore the questions and ignore me.  That would benefit us both.  But one need not disclose their sexual preference to have an equal opinion here...unless you are inferring that your being gay should give your opinion more weight than anyone elses?

A major battle than many LGBT have fought tirelessly for decades is equality and several of my friends hold animosity for the Catholic Church and other Western faiths thats doctrine has held their rights in society back, including the most basic rights of marriage and in some Muslim countries being gay can result in a death sentence. Even if that is utterly irrelevant to you, it is not so for many of the LGBT community. Both those of Muslim faith and those of other.

 

Oh dear, stereotyping again. As I said before, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. As the article you are so keen for people to read points out, many homosexuals are Islamophobes.  Some of my best friends are homosexuals who are Islamophobes. Marine Le Pen in France has significant support from gay Islamophobes. That's how I was able to read you so easily

Edited March 24, 2019 by ThaiBunny