'We are one' says PM Ardern as New Zealand mourns with prayers, silence

[simple1]

2 hours ago, ShortTimed said:

 

The only one using stereotypes to categorize entire groups of people as being all or mostly whatever it is they’re asserting is you in your insistence anyone who does not agree with you is a hate filled islamaphobe.

The mindset of those Hebdo murderers was shared by many in the Muslim community who become very angry when Mohamed is criticized in a comic strip. The attacks then continued at a supermarket. Maybe you need to educate yourself. Western newspapers that once believed strongly in freedom of the press now censure themselves for offending the Muslim community. They do not censure themselves for any other group of people.

But you seemed to cherry pick my last post.

Whats wrong? You afraid to address the issue in Indonesia and their intolerance of the LGBT community, eh?

You need to sort out whatever makes you not hear what posters are actually saying in their posts. When statements are supported by actual facts such as Charlie Hebdo, you are irrational when you attempt to shift the problem away from the violent facts.

 

Concerning your observation regards events in Indonesia. There are hard core Islamists in most (all?) majority Islamic countries. Indo has a population of 260 million plus, so not surprising their are incidents. The Indo Islamic government has done fairly good job in countering Islamic extremists.

 

I spent some time on Bali, Indonesia which is majority Hindu, but god only knows how many thousands on Muslims - no attitude/no problems in fact very friendly. Of course Muslims are the majority owners of the resorts that millions of Westerners visit, including gays every year without incident.

 

I find it very odd that you live in a country with a strong Muslim presence, supported by the Monarchy, but are woefully ignorant of Islam.

 

I lived within a Thai Sunni Muslim community in Thailand for approx four years over time. Never experienced anything negative, again friendly. There was one man who prayed five times times a day. Oh and including gay Muslims. They were proud to call themselves Thai and most honored the Thai Buddhist festivals. Though I guess those who were more dedicated to their religion would put Islam in front of being Thai. IMO those who actually follow the tenets of Christianity, Judaism etc (the minority)  would also put their religion before country. Personally I dislike the nationalism expressed by many on this forum.

 

However, you have confirmed your attitudes, as another member states above "if it walks like a duck". 

Edited March 24, 2019 by simple1

[ShortTimed]

Oh dear, stereotyping again. As I said before, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. As the article you are so keen for people to read points out, many homosexuals are Islamophobes.  Some of my best friends are homosexuals who are Islamophobes. Marine Le Pen in France has significant support from gay Islamophobes. That's how I was able to read you so easily

 

Do we agree on this definition of Islamaphobe?

“a person with a dislike of or prejudice against Islam or Muslims, especially as a political force.”

 

So if the teachings of Islam are non-supportive of the LGBT community and a gay person is concerned they or another member may suffer persecution or harm as a result of Muslim doctrine, any dislike they may then develop towards this faith makes them Islamaphobes? I suppose that fits the definition but what about a gay Muslim who feels marginalized and endangered by the teachings of Islam towards homosexuals? Do you consider them to be Islamaphobic also?

 

If I understand your position, you appear to throw the term Islamphobia around as an insult. Is that how you intend it...Islamaphobia is a negative emotion? And any desire for self-preservation or self-fulfillment to enjoy the same rights as the non-LGBT community of marriage or family is wrong if it means they form a dislike for a religion that would prevent them those rights?

 

It is nice that you admit your prejudice of me from the very start.

[ThaiBunny]

5 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

... but what about a gay Muslim who feels marginalized and endangered by the teachings of Islam towards homosexuals? Do you consider them to be Islamaphobic also?

 

I regard him as a sad individual who needs to get over it.  "I'm an Islamophobe because Muslims are homophobes and I'm homosexual and a Muslim" isn't exactly something conducive to mental health. I'm not prejudiced against you because I'm not prejudiced against Islamophobes.  As I said, some of my best friends are Islamophobes (who are also gay)

Edited March 24, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[sonos99]

48 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

I asked a question that has resulted in my being called alot of names.

 

I asked if the Muslim community of NZ agreed with PM Ardern’s assertion that WE ARE ONE.

 

I didn’t know the first thing about NZ Muslims and if they had become more inclusive by the cultural influence that Kiwis have always had. NZ is often described as secular the same as Canada; so I wondered how a religious population like Muslims might respond to a social climate that was in opposition to the teachings of Muhammad.

 

I think I had one single response that actually helped me to understand something about Muslims in NZ. Thankyou Scott with the lightning bolt.

 

But don’t take my word for it, as someone pointed out, I don’t know much...Lol...but I do know enough to be open-minded and learn about a topic so I am one up on that guy.

 

Here is an article written by a gay Muslim man who is also a researcher and this is an account of his findings. The findings are similar to all the others I could find on the acceptance of homosexuality in the Muslim community. Do Muslims practice WE ARE ONE like Kiwis.

 

I also have a problem when I hear many Muslim women describe their role in their Muslim community as being subservient but I will just focus on this topic of the crossroad of the Muslim faith and the gay community for this post.

 

All of you liberal defenders of justice, may I ask how you simultaneously support the Muslim faith and their negative position on LGBT and womens rights?

 

http://theconversation.com/what-its-like-to-be-gay-and-a-muslim-61128

 

I also found some excellent personal comments on Quora from Kiwis and Muslims that helped me to answer the question I asked on this forum. Kiwi Muslims are more accepting and inclusive the longer they are exposed to the strong Kiwi culture of WE ARE ONE.

 

There is also a great article written by a Gay Kiwi Muslim currently living abroad in Great Britain.

 

Its disheartening to see members on this forum who espouse to be liberals but who actually just defend bullet points of the Liberal agenda and while glossing over actual facts.

 

Especially when not one of these Liberals once presented any narrative of the Kiwi Muslim community at all but only generalizations they wear so righteously as Liberals.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

I am not a NZ Muslim so I cannot tell you what they think about NZ, Adern, homosexuality or any other of your questions. 

 

The NZ Muslim community come from many different countries, they speak different languages and eat different food. There are men, women and children, young and old. Their levels of education will differ as will their english language skills. Some are refugees and some will have been born in NZ. Their experiences of their time in NZ will differ. Their opinions will differ. 

 

I suggest that you ask your questions on a NZ Muslim forum. 

[ShortTimed]

I am not a NZ Muslim so I cannot tell you what they think about NZ, Adern, homosexuality or any other of your questions. 

 

The NZ Muslim community come from many different countries, they speak different languages and eat different food. There are men, women and children, young and old. Their levels of education will differ as will their english language skills. Some are refugees and some will have been born in NZ. Their experiences of their time in NZ will differ. Their opinions will differ. 

 

I suggest that you ask your questions on a NZ Muslim forum. 

 

The information you just provided was the type of details I had hoped for originally and when I was met with name-calling then I researched online.

I was able to learn just what you said above. As well as the limits the NZ gov’t places on immigrants annually and that Muslims have been relocating to NZ since the 1970s, long before this mass migration of the past 5-6 years that has inundated much of Western Europe.

 

I was surprised to learn that the Maori people have seen a surge in conversions to the Muslim faith. I don’t have the article in front of me and I don’t want to misquote but I found the concept interesting.

 

PM Ardern was more justified in her claim WE ARE ONE than I originally understood, although I do think the headscarf thing was a bit much.

[ThaiBunny]

19 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

I was surprised to learn that the Maori people have seen a surge in conversions to the Muslim faith. I don’t have the article in front of me and I don’t want to misquote but I found the concept interesting.

Why surprised? Exactly the same phonomenon can be seen in the USA with the Nation of Islam. Haven't you heard that Cassius Clay converted to Islam and took the name Muhammed Ali?

Edited March 24, 2019 by ThaiBunny

[simple1]

25 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

Why surprised? Exactly the same phonomenon can be seen in the USA with the Nation of Islam. Haven't you heard that Cassius Clay converted to Islam and took the name Muhammed Ali?

Aboriginals in Oz are also converting to Islam - affiliation to the 'other'??? Push back against historically forced conversion to Christianity???Abuse by Christian institutions???

Edited March 24, 2019 by simple1

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Aboriginals in Oz are also converting to Islam - affiliation to the 'other'??? Push back against historically forced conversion to Christianity???Abuse by Christian institutions???

Being the underclass is my guess

[Rimmer]

An off topic troll post has been removed