Hundreds of thousands march in London to demand new Brexit referendum

[malagateddy]

As far as I'm concerned..it was a BRITISH VOTE.
I
Although I'm still a proud Glasweigian..I have never thought of myself as scottish..
I am a UNIONIST AND A ROYALIST AND WILL BE TILL MY DYING DAY!!
I also loath the snp with a vengence..BIG TIME.

No Teddy, not British ... 60% plus of your home country voted to Remain ... as did 56% in Northern Ireland. This was an English issue.

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[RickBradford]

13 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

A very good explanation of Brexit ... reality clashing with theory.

 

Good point.

 

The reality is that the British people voted to leave the EU; the theory among MPs is that they can stop that while simultaneously pretending to be honouring the commitment made in the referendum.

[welovesundaysatspace]

36 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Good point.

 

The reality is that the British people voted to leave the EU; the theory among MPs is that they can stop that while simultaneously pretending to be honouring the commitment made in the referendum.

The reality is that the British people voted for fantasy products causing the current impasse as they’re clashing with reality. 

[Nigel Garvie]

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

An excellent example of judicial impartiality- holding the Government accountable beneath the law.

 

Without these ‘Enemies of the people’ Theresa May would be handing down Brexit by executive order.

 

She was stopped from doing so and forced to present Brexit to Parliament.

 

A win for democracy and the accountability of Government.

Absolutely. The "Enemies of the people" line came from Dacre, arguably the vilest Newspaper editor the UK have ever had. 

 

'A win for democracy and the accountability of Government." Indeed ruling by executive order is in fact dictatorship (getting a bit close to home if you live in LoS). I wonder how the brexiteers here would feel if instead of having their beloved Brexit delivered on a plate by a dictator, they had a Socialist Dictator ruling the UK, without being subject to the law. No doubt they would be calling for the "Enemies of the people" to come back and take control.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, malagateddy said:

As far as I'm concerned..it was a BRITISH VOTE.
I
Although I'm still a proud Glasweigian..I have never thought of myself as scottish..
I am a UNIONIST AND A ROYALIST AND WILL BE TILL MY DYING DAY!!
I also loath the snp with a vengence..BIG TIME.

 

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

NO SURRENDER!!!!!!!!!

 

If we end up with a no deal fiasco you’ll be looking for a new home ... in England. 

 

I didnt support Scottish independence, I thought Scotland worked well within the UK and the EU, the best of both worlds. But I don’t like where Brexit takes us ... it’s an isolationist and nationalistic project, with blaming others at it’s root. In this case EU migrants. If we could just get rid of them then everything would be great? A big lie, but it found enough dafties in England and Wales to get it over the line. I don’t want any part of it ... and it’s unintended consequences will be the break up of the UK. Scotland will go, and that process will be a big mess. And Northern Ireland will do likewise, no doubt causing a great deal of trouble along the way.

 

And for what? The people who want this will see no benefit from it, many will be surprised at the cost. The biggest burden will be placed on the backs of those that don’t want it. And those that want it are dying out, with each year passing. Brexit is the dumbest decision ever taken by a UK electorate. 

[malagateddy]

You have your opinion and I have mine

Is NO SURRENDER your " fkavour of the month " ???

NO SURRENDER!!!!!!!!!
 
If we end up with a no deal fiasco you’ll be looking for a new home ... in England. 
 
I didnt support Scottish independence, I thought Scotland worked well within the UK and the EU, the best of both worlds. But I don’t like where Brexit takes us ... it’s an isolationist and nationalistic project, with blaming others at it’s root. In this case EU migrants. If we could just get rid of them then everything would be great? A big lie, but it found enough dafties in England and Wales to get it over the line. I don’t want any part of it ... and it’s unintended consequences will be the break up of the UK. Scotland will go, and that process will be a big mess. And Northern Ireland will do likewise, no doubt causing a great deal of trouble along the way.
 
And for what? The people who want this will see no benefit from it, many will be surprised at the cost. The biggest burden will be placed on the backs of those that don’t want it. And those that want it are dying out, with each year passing. Brexit is the dumbest decision ever taken by a UK electorate. 

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[Rimmer]

Some off topic baiting has been removed also replies

[RickBradford]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

In this case EU migrants. If we could just get rid of them then everything would be great? A big lie, but it found enough dafties in England and Wales to get it over the line. ... The biggest burden will be placed on the backs of those that don’t want it. And those that want it are dying out, with each year passing.

This is just standard puppet-babble: "Only stupid people, and old people, voted for Brexit."

 

It's not even your own thought, just something that you were told. It's so unoriginal and uninteresting.

[stevenl]

On 3/24/2019 at 7:50 AM, vogie said:

Ah that old chestnut "a flawed opinion poll" would it have been flawed should the result have gone the way of the remainers. 

No, because that result would have been clear regarding the way forward.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, because that result would have been clear regarding the way forward.

Would we have had a soft or hard remain?

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, RickBradford said:

This is just standard puppet-babble: "Only stupid people, and old people, voted for Brexit."

 

It's not even your own thought, just something that you were told. It's so unoriginal and uninteresting.

 

And true. Every time I watch a member of the public who voted for Brexit quizzed on why they did so I seldom hear a rational argument ... it's mostly about immigration, or some rubbish they've read in the Daily Mail ... and it is overwhelmingly old people and those that never excelled academically. So mostly stupid and old people voted for Brexit. The more clever one's did so for their own personal benefit ... the Rees Moggs and Johnsons of this world. The clever ones were more self-serving.

 

 

 

[malagateddy]

 
And true. Every time I watch a member of the public who voted for Brexit quizzed on why they did so I seldom hear a rational argument ... it's mostly about immigration, or some rubbish they've read in the Daily Mail ... and it is overwhelmingly old people and those that never excelled academically. So mostly stupid and old people voted for Brexit. The more clever one's did so for their own personal benefit ... the Rees Moggs and Johnsons of this world. The clever ones were more self-serving.
 
 
 

There you go again..stupid and old people..best to remember that OLD saying..pride cometh before a fall!!
By the way..how's your flavour of the month coming along.." no surrender "..you should really get out a bit more like Brexiteers do..enjoy the weather..relax etc etc

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[stevenl]

33 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

There you go again..stupid and old people..best to remember that OLD saying..pride cometh before a fall!!
By the way..how's your flavour of the month coming along.." no surrender "..you should really get out a bit more like Brexiteers do..enjoy the weather..relax etc etc

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Don't like what he is saying, counter with arguments. I'm sure you can show us it were the young and higher educated that voted brexit.

[RickBradford]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

Every time I watch a member of the public who voted for Brexit quizzed on why they did so I seldom hear a rational argument

That hardly falls under the head of compelling evidence, even by your low standards.

 

Why not try to come up with your own view on Brexit, rather than parroting the "Brexit voters are old and stupid" trope that is routinely trotted out in place of any serious analysis.

 

It's very tiresome to see the exact same witless script being read out time and again.

[malagateddy]

Should be " it was " not " it were " ...young and educated indeed!!!

Don't like what he is saying, counter with arguments. I'm sure you can show us it were the young and higher educated that voted brexit.

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[vogie]

13 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Don't like what he is saying, counter with arguments. I'm sure you can show us it were the young and higher educated that voted brexit.

The young havn't got a clue what they are voting for, only what the left wing teachers have told them. Science has established that you don't become an adult untill you are 30, maybe that should be the age that the 'young' should start voting.

[Forethat]

Here's another interesting view (no doubt classified as "stupid", "uneducated", etc etc etc by the self-proclaimed intellectual reserve on this forum).

 

Quote

The government has agreed to extend “exit day” to 12 April or, if the Withdrawal Agreement is passed, to 22 May 2019. In trying to force Parliament to agree to this unilateral act, taken without prior parliamentary approval, it may be that the government has acted illegally.

What is the legal status of the UK government’s apparent agreement with the EU to postpone “Brexit date” until 12 April or 22 May 2019 under Article 50(3) of the TEU?  Its acceptance of postponements of the Brexit date places it in a highly unsatisfactory legal position. 

The reasons are as follows:

 

Parliament passed the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018.   Section 20 of that Act (the “interpretation” section) came into force on the day the Act was passed.

In section 20 “exit day”, that is the day on which the UK will leave the EU, is stated to be 29 March 2019 at 11.00pm.  Thus Parliament has decreed that, as a matter of UK law, the 29 March will be “exit day”: a specific date and time.

 

As a matter of UK domestic law, that cannot be altered by government statement or any other means than by either repealing that part of section 20(1) or using the means set out in sections 20(3) and (4) and Schedule 7 paragraph 14 of the Act.   

 

Those provisions of the Act permit a Minister to change the “exit date” by Statutory Instrument (SI) in certain defined circumstances.  The Statutory Instrument is subject to the “affirmative resolution” procedure (see Schedule 7 paragraph 14) which means that the draft SI must be put before both Houses and they must both give their approval before the Minister can sign it.

 

Section 20(3) sets out the only circumstance in which a Minister can amend “exit day” by this means.  It can only be done “if the  day or time on which or at which the Treaties are to cease to apply to the United Kingdom in accordance with Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union is different from that specified in the definition of “exit day” in subsection (1).  In that case, under section 20(4)(a), a Minister can, by regulations, “amend the definition of “exit day” in subsection (1) to ensure that the day and the time specified in the definition are the day and time that the Treaties are to cease to apply to the United Kingdom”.

Note that this says nothing about whether Parliamentary approval is needed, as a matter of domestic UK law, to agree to an extension of the Article 50 period of two years.  Nor does it deal with the process needed in international law.  The latter must be governed by whatever process is required under Article 50(3) of the Treaty on the European Union (“TEU”). 

 

It appears that a letter dated 22 March 2019 from Sir Tim Barrow, the UK Permanent Representative Ambassador to the EU, purported to agree on behalf of the UK to a draft decision of the European Council to an extension of “exit day” to 12 April or, if the PM’s Withdrawal Agreement is passed in Parliament, to 22 May 2019.   

Two issues arise.  First, can that letter change what is set out in section 20(1) as being “exit day” as a matter of domestic UK law; secondly, can it bind the UK in international law to an agreement to extend the “exit day” when the UK Parliament has stated, in an Act, that it is to be 29 March and there has been no change by the means contemplated in the 2018 Act?

 

On domestic UK law, “exit day” has not been defined by reference to when the EU Treaties cease to have effect in the UK, but by reference to a specific date: 29 March 2019.  It must be highly arguable that the date can only be changed by an amendment to section 20(1) or by using the affirmative resolution procedure in Sch 7 paragraph 14, if the circumstances in section 20(3) and (4) apply.  But section 20(3) and (4) do not say that the government can change “exit day” or the date when the Treaties will cease to apply to the UK by government action alone, without Parliamentary approval.  The opposite is implicit in the need for the affirmative resolution of both Houses.

It can be accepted that the Prime Minister or HM Permanent Representative to the EU would be entitled, and have the authority, to bind the UK to a new treaty obligation in international law, in this case, the extension of “exit day”.  But that power and authority is limited.  They cannot bind the UK to a new treaty obligation if to do so would be a manifest violation of the internal law [of the UK] of fundamental importance. 

 

Whilst Article 50(3) of the TEU does not have the same qualifying words as Article 50(1) for giving notice under Article 50  (“in accordance with [the leaving state’s] own constitutional requirements”) it must be strongly arguable that those words are implicit in Article 50(3).  Parliament has defined “exit day” as a specific date.  Only Parliament can change that.  A government action to try and change that at the international law level by an agreement without Parliamentary approval seems tantamount to flouting the will of Parliament as set out in an Act of Parliament. 

 

It must be strongly arguable that the requirement to obtain Parliamentary approval for the change in “exit day” is something that is evident and of fundamental constitutional importance in UK domestic law.

 

The need to obtain that Parliamentary approval for a change must be equally evident to the EU who must know of the statute and be capable of reading its provisions. 

If this is right, then the actions of HMG, through the Permanent Representative, cannot bind either Parliament or the UK generally on the international law plane so that any purported extension of the Article 50 period would not be valid.  At the very least, HMG has acted in a manner which flouts an Act of Parliament and proper parliamentary procedure.   

 

How should it have been done?  There should have been non-binding negotiations with the EU on the new “exit date”.  The draft SI should then have been laid before both Houses using the Sch 7 para 14 procedure, with the new proposed date(s) in it.  If approved the EU should have been told and it could then make a formal decision.  Then the Minister could sign the SI.

 

The way the government has acted, by trying to force Parliament to agree to what it has done unilaterally without prior parliamentary approval, is, at the least, highly unsatisfactory.  It must be arguable that the government has acted illegally. 

 

Rt Hon Sir Richard Aikens, is a former member of the Court of Appeal, and former Vice-President of the Consultative Council of European Judges.

4

 

[AlexRich]

For example ... a typical Leave voter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AlexRich]

In the interests of balance, here are some of the clever ones:

 

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

12 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

In the interests of balance, here are some of the clever ones:

 

 

 

No point in arguing (except to troll, of course, because they are VERY ANGRY at their thwarted lives) the Leave boneheads let them rant impotently on the internet to no effect or go on some pointless march - which incidentally no-one here did and that incluswd their elitist Pied Piper Nigel Garage. Meanwhile, the adults in the room have got to go about the thankless fixing the bleedin' mess they have left all over the place. As you were - the fact that Grouse was banned for 10 days says it all about this place really in the end. 

[Grouse]

Ministers have been instructed to abstain from all indicative votes. Bastards.

[Grouse]

31 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

For example ... a typical Leave voter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And he is one of the better educated Brexiters ????

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, Grouse said:

And he is one of the better educated Brexiters ????

 

The point really is that no one, whatever their level of education and EU knowledge, would have been able to get their heads around the complexity of leaving the EU and the full implications of doing so ... a situation compounded by the liars that said one thing before the vote, and another afterwards. 

 

 

[Loiner]

This is just standard puppet-babble: "Only stupid people, and old people, voted for Brexit."

‘Young and stupid’ is a popular cliche and not without good reason. An oft used excuse for folly such a being a Remainer.
What’s the betting your Rich young friend is blonde too?

[nontabury]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

Don't like what he is saying, counter with arguments. I'm sure you can show us it were the young and higher educated that voted brexit.

 

 Well this is why many Brits voted to leave this so called union. Where you eligible to vote?

 

There were many reasons, of course, but each one derives itself from a single source - taking back control of our country! We only have to look at the self serving trotters in Westminster, who have their noses firmly in the trough. As one example, have they purposely forgotten they were instructed to carry out the will of the people? Or would it be more truthful that our votes and opinions are viewed as worthless - until it fits in with their own political agendas or narrative?! 

Then there's the undemocratic European Union - the attitude of 'our way or no way'. Why the leftwing can't see the connection between Brussels and the New World Order shows ignorance on an astonishing level! Why would a trading block need full autonomy and governance over its member countries? Why do they seek more power and sovereignty from its members? Why do they need to infiltrate and meddle with its members political systems? Why do they command that their laws and regulations are adhered to - and dictate who a nation can and cannot trade with? If that hasn't set the alarm bells ringing, they now OPENLY admit to having plans all along for an EU army. Surely the penny has dropped by now?! Have we not already been down this path before? When a megalomaniac thought he could take over his neighbours' country - with dramatic consequences to any resistance - what would be different this time around? I can assure you that nothing happens in Brussels without having Germany’s approval first. The difference this time around is that it's not Nazis storming the streets, it will be an army of Europeans following the instructions of the NWO. Because you are being conquered passively at present, doesn't mean you're not under attack and surrendering to a foreign power. What do you think will happen when you refuse to obey or follow orders? Just look at what's happening already in France! The right to protest has been withdrawn - not to mention free speech in our own country! You can't even define what kind of terrorists are attacking you - unless they're white!

Brexit is about accountability. No more sneaky Prime Minister's   given away British assets via stealthy treaties - and no more slimy politicians accepting backhanders or incentives, if we are being polite to do the bidding of globalists. We may have evolved regarding technology and medicine etc, but as a society we are being deliberately forced downwards - and to breaking point - to introduce new sweeping laws right across Europe in its entirety. If we remain politically tied, or under the control of Brussels, the British people will unfortunately share the same fate and punishments as those our media hide - and refuse to broadcast on! Europe is heading into a recession it cannot recover from - and wants us to shoulder the costs! It was their self arrogance and indulgence that doomed them - resulting in where we find ourselves today. The only way Britain can protect itself - from the continuous bombardment of EU rules and policies - is by removing ourselves from the equation. A clean exit can deliver this. After we leave, we can then begin to redress our own issues and problems on our doorstep - so Britain can once again serve the British people!
 

[aright]

5 hours ago, AlexRich said:

NO SURRENDER!!!!!!!!!

 

If we end up with a no deal fiasco you’ll be looking for a new home ... in England. 

 

I didnt support Scottish independence, I thought Scotland worked well within the UK and the EU, the best of both worlds. But I don’t like where Brexit takes us ... it’s an isolationist and nationalistic project, with blaming others at it’s root. In this case EU migrants. If we could just get rid of them then everything would be great? A big lie, but it found enough dafties in England and Wales to get it over the line. I don’t want any part of it ... and it’s unintended consequences will be the break up of the UK. Scotland will go, and that process will be a big mess. And Northern Ireland will do likewise, no doubt causing a great deal of trouble along the way.

 

And for what? The people who want this will see no benefit from it, many will be surprised at the cost. The biggest burden will be placed on the backs of those that don’t want it. And those that want it are dying out, with each year passing. Brexit is the dumbest decision ever taken by a UK electorate. 

Remainers on this forum are always keen to lecture us on the economic consequences of leaving the EU; less so on the social and political consequences and are never forthcoming on the total consequences of  remaining in the Union in the medium to long term.

 

We would value your take on the benefits of remaining in a Union with a track record of  political failure, with almost no appetite for changing course, heading toward a Union with more and more member states electing far right legislatures; in a Union being constantly undermined by the opposing views of France and Germany as to how to take the project forward; its capital Brussels with its crisis management ,policy failure, the dilution and  loss of social democracy, confusion of aims and means, subjecting the democratic institutions of member states to sabotage and chaos?? 

 

With or without us I am sure the EU will continue on its current path fighting attacks from all sides and making it increasingly look like the last decades of the Habsburg Empire which students of history know should have marked the beginning of European freedom but instead ushered in the age of the dictators.

 

[nontabury]

55 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

In the interests of balance, here are some of the clever ones:

 

 

 

 

 

In the interest of balance, we have this video that has gone viral in the U.K. during the last 24hrs, and that includes being shown on national news T.V.

  They should be thoroughly Embarrassed, though I doubt it. 

 

 

[damascase]

6 minutes ago, nontabury said:

 

 Well this is why many Brits voted to leave this so called union. Where you eligible to vote?

 

There were many reasons, of course, but each one derives itself from a single source - taking back control of our country! We only have to look at the self serving trotters in Westminster, who have their noses firmly in the trough. As one example, have they purposely forgotten they were instructed to carry out the will of the people? Or would it be more truthful that our votes and opinions are viewed as worthless - until it fits in with their own political agendas or narrative?! 

Then there's the undemocratic European Union - the attitude of 'our way or no way'. Why the leftwing can't see the connection between Brussels and the New World Order shows ignorance on an astonishing level! Why would a trading block need full autonomy and governance over its member countries? Why do they seek more power and sovereignty from its members? Why do they need to infiltrate and meddle with its members political systems? Why do they command that their laws and regulations are adhered to - and dictate who a nation can and cannot trade with? If that hasn't set the alarm bells ringing, they now OPENLY admit to having plans all along for an EU army. Surely the penny has dropped by now?! Have we not already been down this path before? When a megalomaniac thought he could take over his neighbours' country - with dramatic consequences to any resistance - what would be different this time around? I can assure you that nothing happens in Brussels without having Germany’s approval first. The difference this time around is that it's not Nazis storming the streets, it will be an army of Europeans following the instructions of the NWO. Because you are being conquered passively at present, doesn't mean you're not under attack and surrendering to a foreign power. What do you think will happen when you refuse to obey or follow orders? Just look at what's happening already in France! The right to protest has been withdrawn - not to mention free speech in our own country! You can't even define what kind of terrorists are attacking you - unless they're white!

Brexit is about accountability. No more sneaky Prime Minister's   given away British assets via stealthy treaties - and no more slimy politicians accepting backhanders or incentives, if we are being polite to do the bidding of globalists. We may have evolved regarding technology and medicine etc, but as a society we are being deliberately forced downwards - and to breaking point - to introduce new sweeping laws right across Europe in its entirety. If we remain politically tied, or under the control of Brussels, the British people will unfortunately share the same fate and punishments as those our media hide - and refuse to broadcast on! Europe is heading into a recession it cannot recover from - and wants us to shoulder the costs! It was their self arrogance and indulgence that doomed them - resulting in where we find ourselves today. The only way Britain can protect itself - from the continuous bombardment of EU rules and policies - is by removing ourselves from the equation. A clean exit can deliver this. After we leave, we can then begin to redress our own issues and problems on our doorstep - so Britain can once again serve the British people!
 

Taking back control: in what way is the EU ‘controling’ the UK? I haven’t yet seen any solid argument yet for the Leavers’ claim that the UK will be better off outside the EU. 

[Crazy Alex]

What a bunch of clowns.  There was already a vote.  The people spoke.  

[AlexRich]

15 minutes ago, damascase said:

Taking back control: in what way is the EU ‘controling’ the UK? I haven’t yet seen any solid argument yet for the Leavers’ claim that the UK will be better off outside the EU. 

 

What Rees Mogg meant was that he'd be better off ... not the country.