Brits’ Entitlement To Free Medical Care In The Uk

[Mobi]

I know this subject has been discussed before, but it may be worth re-airing, especially as there has been an increasing trend at all private hospitals in Thailand to crank up the charges to foreigners – especially for serious illnesses, such as cancer and heart disease.

Although I have a number of chronic complaints, all are under control, and I can well afford the very good medical treatment I receive at Thailand’s arguably premier hospital – Bumrungrad. If I needed a major operation, I could also afford that, based on current rates, and although it would leave a hole in my pot of money, it would be no means render me impecunious.

I am now 60, and with reasonable luck, and sensible lifestyle, I can probably expect another 10 years of active, healthy living. After, that, with my complaints, which include diabetes, high blood pressure and coronary disease, who knows? And who knows what may happen to inflation and the value of my investments during this period? Barring a mega stock market crash, I will always be OK, even though my circumstances may be reduced.

But just suppose my health deteriorates to the point where I need major medical treatment, or constant medical care and it becomes beyond my reduced means to pay for it?

Assuming I could get on a plane back to the UK, what would happen when I arrive? It is my understanding that under new regulations I would be refused free medical treatment. This is in spite of the fact that I have put more taxes in the exchequer than a vast majority of Brits, and have made my full quota of national insurance contributions.

Is the answer simply to make a trip to the UK and get registered at a GP, using a UK address (maybe use one of my family’s addresses in England), and then come back to Thailand? Would this be a criminal offence and would it jeopardise my non –resident tax status? Or am I worrying about nothing?

Any information or knowledge on this would be appreciated. I’m not worried right now, but there may come a time when I might regret not taking appropriate action when I was able to.

Another point to think about is what happens if the authorities ever insist on a ‘proper’ medical certificate. Unlikely in the current corrupt climate – but who knows what may happen 10 years down the line. If you’re too ill to get a certificate, they may not renew your visa. Then what do you do?

[davidjtayler]

This is from the Socialised medicine thread in bedlam recently Mobi .....

Question by DJT ...

Quick divergence and maybe Boo or Robski can answer this question ...

If one has been away from the UK for many years and has not contributed to their NI at all for many years what is the script if one is to return and require medical treatment in the UK.

Is it still available on the NHS for free or must contributions be bought up to date first from the last time of payment ... or must one just begin contributing again from their point of rearrival....?

Answer from Boo ...

A friend recently returned after several years outside of the Uk suffering with a very serious respritory illness, She was covered from the first day after registering at a GP, which I acted as her introduction as she was homeless as well & sleeping on my sofa. She has received all treatment & made a recovery (no longer high risk) although her full recovery will take several years due to major lunch damage. The only requirement ONE of her treatment centres needed (she was under several) was that she was planning on staying in the UK for a while otherwise she would have to pay for her medication only. She was also given housing benefit & variouis disability benifits as she is unable to work at the moment. There were a couple of benefits she wasn't entitled to as she had to be in the country for 6months but her treatment was given from day one.

[garro]

I know this subject has been discussed before, but it may be worth re-airing, especially as there has been an increasing trend at all private hospitals in Thailand to crank up the charges to foreigners – especially for serious illnesses, such as cancer and heart disease.

Although I have a number of chronic complaints, all are under control, and I can well afford the very good medical treatment I receive at Thailand’s arguably premier hospital – Bumrungrad. If I needed a major operation, I could also afford that, based on current rates, and although it would leave a hole in my pot of money, it would be no means render me impecunious.

I am now 60, and with reasonable luck, and sensible lifestyle, I can probably expect another 10 years of active, healthy living. After, that, with my complaints, which include diabetes, high blood pressure and coronary disease, who knows? And who knows what may happen to inflation and the value of my investments during this period? Barring a mega stock market crash, I will always be OK, even though my circumstances may be reduced.

But just suppose my health deteriorates to the point where I need major medical treatment, or constant medical care and it becomes beyond my reduced means to pay for it?

Assuming I could get on a plane back to the UK, what would happen when I arrive? It is my understanding that under new regulations I would be refused free medical treatment. This is in spite of the fact that I have put more taxes in the exchequer than a vast majority of Brits, and have made my full quota of national insurance contributions.

Is the answer simply to make a trip to the UK and get registered at a GP, using a UK address (maybe use one of my family’s addresses in England), and then come back to Thailand? Would this be a criminal offence and would it jeopardise my non –resident tax status? Or am I worrying about nothing?

Any information or knowledge on this would be appreciated. I’m not worried right now, but there may come a time when I might regret not taking appropriate action when I was able to.

Another point to think about is what happens if the authorities ever insist on a ‘proper’ medical certificate. Unlikely in the current corrupt climate – but who knows what may happen 10 years down the line. If you’re too ill to get a certificate, they may not renew your visa. Then what do you do?

I worked as a nurse in the NHS for a few years and it is my understanding that they cannot refuse you treatment (on the basis of not being able to pay) unless it is something very minor and could be considered cosmetic.

Most A+E departments in the UK have a GP in residence who will be able to see you if you are not already registered with one. This may involve a long wait and he/she may be annoyed if it is something trivial.

Sorry I have no knowledge about how this would affect your resident tax status.

[loong]

Technically, you are not entitled to NHS treatment if you stay out of Uk for more than 3 months. However, if you state that you have returned to the Uk with the intention of staying there your entitlement is reistated.

I cannot imagine any person, resident or not being refused treatment for a serious condition, can you?

[Mobi]

Thank you for the replies so far.

There has been much anecdotal evidence that Brits returning to the Uk have not been refused treatment, but there has also been the odd story that sick Brits arriving at Heathrow, have indeed been refused treatment when seeking it in the immediate area of Heathrow.

However a few weeks ago, the editor of Pattaya Today, stated unequivocally, in response to reader's letter, that the the rule was that any returning 'non-residents' would have to stay in the Uk for 6 months before qualifying for free treatment.

I may be wrong, but what this seems to tell me that there is indeed a law in place, but in most of the UK, few are aware of it and even fewer would seek to invoke it.

However, with an increasing number of Brits seeking a 'life in the sun', there may well come the day when the government decides to clamp down on what I understand is already an existing rule.

Any more expert opinions out there would be welcome.

Thanks

[taxexile]

that the the rule was that any returning 'non-residents' would have to stay in the Uk for 6 months before qualifying for free treatment.

does that rule also apply to recent immigrants? newcomers are encouraged to register with a gp as soon as they arrive.

i cant imagine that a british citizen would be refused treatment on the basis that he has been out of the country for more than 6 months.

[Mobi]

that the the rule was that any returning 'non-residents' would have to stay in the Uk for 6 months before qualifying for free treatment.

does that rule also apply to recent immigrants? newcomers are encouraged to register with a gp as soon as they arrive.

i cant imagine that a british citizen would be refused treatment on the basis that he has been out of the country for more than 6 months.

That is exactly the point I am trying to obtain clarification on.

I believe it applies to those Brits who have been out of the UK for an 'extended period' but how long that is, I wouldn't know.

I also believe the motive behind the ruling is to prevent expats ( and these days there are millions of them) from simply coming back to the UK to have costly operations and /or medical care free of charge. The six month rule would certainly curtail such practices.

There must be a way to find out for sure

[bangsue]

i got an e-mail from a friend in the uk last week, the last paragraph of which said:

"Interesting programme on the other day about expats coming back to the UK

to try and get medical treatment - seems the best ploy is not to tell

anyone you've officially moved abroad."

i'll try and find out what the programme was and some more details.

cheers.

[loong]

i cant imagine that a british citizen would be refused treatment on the basis that he has been out of the country for more than 6 months.

The law is 3 months. There was a topic covering this subject a long time ago with links, maybe can find it

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=29842&st=0

One link

Edited March 3, 2007 by loong

[Boo]

I was under the impression that you could also top up your NI contributions if you haven't been contributing recently to entitle you to all NHS care. Again not fact but did beleive that to be true.

[jackr]

I've heard that not seeing your registered doctor for three years could play a part in it, although that doesn't necessarily mean you've been out of the country by any means. Simply not telling them you live abroad and keeping up voluntary NI contributions, like others have said, seems to be a good idea.

[briley]

I haven't the time to check now but the last time this topic came up I found the NHS site that said you are NOT entitled to free NHS treatment if you are out of the UK for 6 months or longer, or you claim to be non-resident.

Non-residents (that is Brits or not) will always get free emergency treatment.

A Brit will always get free treatment if they return to the UK and become resident. You get that from the day you arrive so just say you are returning to take up residence. You can then leave a few days later.

But an non-resident Brit visiting for a holiday does not get treatment for free.

As I visit the UK each year I call in to see the doctor most years and have a UK address so they treat me as resident.

Payment of voluntary NI contributions makes no odds to getting free treatment.

Incidentally colour of skin does aid getting free treatment, along with the correct accent.

[billd766]

I have been living in Thailand full time for the last 6 years so it would appear that the land of my birth no longer wishes to care for me in my older years (I am 63 in May). I have however paid up all of my contributions for 44 years, I have not seen the doctor in UK for 7 or 8 years and generally I only see a doctor here about once a year.

On the other hand the fact that I am no longer living in the UK has not stopped the government from claiming income tax on the 2 pensions I have already earned and when I finally receive my state pension I will not be given any increments because I live in Thailand.

I made the right decision years ago about where to live and that is here. They can keep their Socialist republic of the UK.

There used to be an old navy saying years ago which is still true today.

Pull up the ladder Jack, I'm alright.

***kem.

[billd766]

I have been living in Thailand full time for the last 6 years so it would appear that the land of my birth no longer wishes to care for me in my older years (I am 63 in May) even though I served them for 25 years.

I have however paid up all of my contributions for 44 years, I have not seen the doctor in UK for 7 or 8 years and generally I only see a doctor here about once a year.

On the other hand the fact that I am no longer living in the UK has not stopped the government from claiming income tax on the 2 pensions I have already earned and when I finally receive my state pension I will not be given any increments because I live in Thailand (and I will have to pay tax on that as well).

I made the right decision years ago about where to live and that is here. They can keep their Socialist republic of the UK.

There used to be an old navy saying years ago which is still true today.

Pull up the ladder Jack, I'm alright.

***kem.

:D

[ronw]

i cant imagine that a british citizen would be refused treatment on the basis that he has been out of the country for more than 6 months.

The law is 3 months. There was a topic covering this subject a long time ago with links, maybe can find it

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=29842&st=0

One link

Not exactly on the same topic, but loosely related.....

What I find iniquitous is the fact that government pensions are frozen if one moves to live in certain other parts of the world...Thailand being one of them....

I have paid full dues and taxes all my life,yet my pension can never be increased, unless I return to live in the UK.

Not being in the UK,I am not a burden on the infrastructure,thereby saving costs for the government.

There must be many thousands of us who are in the same situation....can anyone suggest a method of contacting them , so that they may form a group which could finance some good lawyers to take this matter, as a class action,to The Court of human Rights?

I realise that it would be a long and rocky road, especially as the defendant is a Government.

[The Philosopher]

Technically, you are not entitled to NHS treatment if you stay out of Uk for more than 3 months. However, if you state that you have returned to the Uk with the intention of staying there your entitlement is reistated.

I cannot imagine any person, resident or not being refused treatment for a serious condition, can you?

What rubbish this statement is.

If you are a UK citizen you cannot be refused treatment, if you are in the UK on any type of legal residence visa you are entitled to free treatment, you can get this by registering with a GP or keeping your registration with a GP open when you are out of the country. Notwithstanding just turn up at any A & E with a valid NI number and treatment will be given treatment.

[endure]

i cant imagine that a british citizen would be refused treatment on the basis that he has been out of the country for more than 6 months.

The law is 3 months. There was a topic covering this subject a long time ago with links, maybe can find it

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...=29842&st=0

One link

Not exactly on the same topic, but loosely related.....

What I find iniquitous is the fact that government pensions are frozen if one moves to live in certain other parts of the world...Thailand being one of them....

I have paid full dues and taxes all my life,yet my pension can never be increased, unless I return to live in the UK.

Not being in the UK,I am not a burden on the infrastructure,thereby saving costs for the government.

There must be many thousands of us who are in the same situation....can anyone suggest a method of contacting them , so that they may form a group which could finance some good lawyers to take this matter, as a class action,to The Court of human Rights?

I realise that it would be a long and rocky road, especially as the defendant is a Government.

It's already been tried in the UK, as far as the House of Lords:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../27/npens27.xml

[Mobi]

I have been living in Thailand full time for the last 6 years so it would appear that the land of my birth no longer wishes to care for me in my older years (I am 63 in May). I have however paid up all of my contributions for 44 years, I have not seen the doctor in UK for 7 or 8 years and generally I only see a doctor here about once a year.

On the other hand the fact that I am no longer living in the UK has not stopped the government from claiming income tax on the 2 pensions I have already earned and when I finally receive my state pension I will not be given any increments because I live in Thailand.

I made the right decision years ago about where to live and that is here. They can keep their Socialist republic of the UK.

There used to be an old navy saying years ago which is still true today.

Pull up the ladder Jack, I'm alright.

***kem.

My situation is very similar to yours in every respect.

I don't anticipate ever having to go back to the UK for medical treatment, but as I said in my earlier posts - you never know what may happen in the future.

If I can keep my eligibility for free treatment alive by going back for a few weeks and registering with a doctor, then maybe it's worth doing.

After all, like you, I've paid enough in, and am still paying

[Mobi]

Technically, you are not entitled to NHS treatment if you stay out of Uk for more than 3 months. However, if you state that you have returned to the Uk with the intention of staying there your entitlement is reistated.

I cannot imagine any person, resident or not being refused treatment for a serious condition, can you?

What rubbish this statement is.

If you are a UK citizen you cannot be refused treatment, if you are in the UK on any type of legal residence visa you are entitled to free treatment, you can get this by registering with a GP or keeping your registration with a GP open when you are out of the country. Notwithstanding just turn up at any A & E with a valid NI number and treatment will be given treatment.

If as you say it is rubbish, why are so many people, who aught to know better, stating that it is not rubbish.

This is part of the reason that I started this topic. Some say there is a definite rule stating that certain British non residents are not elligible for free treatment, others say that the rule is never applied, and yet more say that the whole thing is rubbish.

Who is correct?

Who can point me to the definitive ruling on this matter?

Or do we just speculate forever more and hope for the best?

[khunlungphudhu]

Not exactly on the same topic, but loosely related.....

What I find iniquitous is the fact that government pensions are frozen if one moves to live in certain other parts of the world...Thailand being one of them....

I have paid full dues and taxes all my life,yet my pension can never be increased, unless I return to live in the UK.

Not being in the UK,I am not a burden on the infrastructure,thereby saving costs for the government.

There must be many thousands of us who are in the same situation....can anyone suggest a method of contacting them , so that they may form a group which could finance some good lawyers to take this matter, as a class action,to The Court of human Rights?

I realise that it would be a long and rocky road, especially as the defendant is a Government.

Already formed and very much in action, easy way is to do a search for 'BEP' (British Expat Pensioners) or 'BAPA'. The former based in Oz, the latter in Canada.

Already have actions awaiting the Court of Human Rights' hearing in Europe.

Suspect I am not the only member on TV!

[niggle]

You are entitled to medical treatment as a UK citizen whether you live abroaod or not.

To minimise potential issues (health or other) do not arise, keep an address in the UK (even as a mailing address), keep registered with a GP and there will be no problems. You cam turn up at any GP and register as a temporary patient.

If you request treatment at he airport you arrive when you arrive, they might get awkward unless the illness occurred during travel.

[Dave the Dude]

I was under the impression that you could also top up your NI contributions if you haven't been contributing recently to entitle you to all NHS care. Again not fact but did believe that to be true.

Hi Boo

I do not believe that NI contributions DIRECTLY link to if you would get treatment in a UK hospital. As an aside, The max years for NI contributions will be changing in the near future so that Guys n Gals are the same.

At present a man needs to have contributed for 44 years and a lady for 36. These figures will be changed and combined to THIRTY YEARS whatever the sex. I am one month away from relocating to LOS and as I've contributed for 34 years, I see no sense in paying voluntary NI contributions

Anyways there's hardly anyone left in the UK paying Tax/NIC's, they are all on benefits

regards

DAVE

[qwertz]

I'm an English expat in Germany. I pay dear for my health cover here. The one time I needed treatment in England, nobody even queried where I lived, where I was from or if I had an insurance carrier. Nice to learn that Blighty still leads in some things.

[Mobi]

You are entitled to medical treatment as a UK citizen whether you live abroaod or not.

To minimise potential issues (health or other) do not arise, keep an address in the UK (even as a mailing address), keep registered with a GP and there will be no problems. You cam turn up at any GP and register as a temporary patient.

If you request treatment at he airport you arrive when you arrive, they might get awkward unless the illness occurred during travel.

Believe me, I'm really not trying to be awkward, but your post typifies the current thinking, which appears muddled and to me confusing.

If, as you say, I am entitled to medical treatment, why would anyone want to refuse me that treatment? On what basis may these faceless bureaucrats determine that I have lost my entitlement? Is there a rule, or isn't there a rule?

I am either entitled, or I am not entitled. Why do I have to go through some subterfuge to get treatment?

Isn't Heathrow just as much a part of the UK as anywhere else? Why should they be awkward at Heathrow, and not in Hamstead?

[loong]

I was under the impression that you could also top up your NI contributions if you haven't been contributing recently to entitle you to all NHS care. Again not fact but did beleive that to be true.

Boo........ voluntary contributions only count towards your state pension.

Technically, you are not entitled to NHS treatment if you stay out of Uk for more than 3 months. However, if you state that you have returned to the Uk with the intention of staying there your entitlement is reinstated.

I cannot imagine any person, resident or not being refused treatment for a serious condition, can you?

What rubbish this statement is.

If you are a UK citizen you cannot be refused treatment, if you are in the UK on any type of legal residence visa you are entitled to free treatment, you can get this by registering with a GP or keeping your registration with a GP open when you are out of the country. Notwithstanding just turn up at any A & E with a valid NI number and treatment will be given treatment.

What rubbish this statement is.

So you disagree. Well, my statement is not rubbish at all. You can be refused treatment other than emergency. And then once emergency treatment is carried out, ongoing care is chargeable. This is the law and you should be prepared for it. In practice, I imagine that most expats will get away with not having to pay, but it's not certain.

I've managed to find some links

http://www.dh.gov.uk/PolicyAndGuidance/Int...&chk=PtH832

http://www.dh.gov.uk/PolicyAndGuidance/Int...&chk=k5r39f

http://www.dh.gov.uk/PolicyAndGuidance/Int...&chk=uxX7j/

[scotsman]

If you look at that gov.uk/policy it states that if you are ordinary resident then you are exempt from health charges. Now if you look at the web site for uk tax office on national insurance it says if you have a uk address and pay income tax in the uk you are a ordinary resident so you can get full heath treatment. I would say that if you pay income tax in the uk & have full national insurance then i see no reason why you will not get full health treatment. I also dont think at the moment that any a&e hospital will refuse you treatment but that could change for non residents who dont meet the requirements in future.

[jingjingna]

Mobi,

This is a fact. If you have paid enough tax and National Insurance contributions, Class 1, then you WILL be entitled to free hospital costs. If however, you have only paid taxes on earnings and NO voluntary N.I contributions, then you may have a problem, depends on how long you have lived abroad and not/if maintaned a U.K address...like I just said provided you have paid 1st Class contributiions, then it does not matter where you have been living. Voluntary 2nd Class N.I contributions are currently less than two pounds a week, first class are around seven. Google Inland Revenue.

All th best!

[jingjingna]

Dave the Dude,

You have your wires crossed...TAX and N.I are different! Please check out the Inland Revenue website for upto date info. Just because you have paid tax on earnings does not mean you have paid any or enough N.I. Reading your reply to Boo, I gather you have paid enough of both still in employment in the U.K. The O.P is not and hence the thread.

[astral]

I am interested too.

An old friend will be returning soon.

He has a serious liver condition and will die without treatment...................

[glenbat]

I'm sure there wont be a problem travelling back 6000 miles to contract MRSA or worse. Best bet is use an Eastern european accent to jump the queue

NHS = too few paying into it, too many using it