No-deal Brexit fears rise as parliament sinks May's deal

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Dein Glaube möge dich segnen.

Quite appropriate for a Sunday!

[malagateddy]

D/d..how correct you are.
One of my mates over here is a german..he speaks..reads and can also write Thai..English..Spanish and French..very gifted re foreign languages.
Ps..he hates merkel . wants the afb or afd to go from strength to strength and also wants germany out of the eu!!!

How on earth did this thread turn into a debate on Latin etc.???
 
Seeing as we're way off topic anyway, I'll add my '2 cents' - English is the 'universal' second language everywhere thanks to the Americans!
 
I too was taught Latin at school and it is useful as a 'background' language to european languages.  Sadly, I can remember virtually nothing of it nowadays [emoji3525].
 
Some people have a 'gift' for languages, and so can easily learn another.  Others don't have this 'gift', and find it v. difficult to learn other languages.

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[Grouse]

Following May's insulting speech from Downing Street 10 days ago I posted an angry comment. I was suspended for 10 days under section (9).

 

I accepted this with equanimity. This is a private website and moderators are free to act as they see fit.

 

However, for clarity, my comment was not due to misogynistic ideas on my part.

 

I condemn May for being useless, unpleasant, dishonest, divisive and psychotic; NOT because she is a woman.

 

To avoid any further risk of being condemned for misogyny, I have added the complainant to my ignore list in perpetuity.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I like Anna Soubry, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper; I do not care for Caroline Flint, Margaret Hodge and Andrea Leadsom. Not because they are women but because of their political views and attitudes. (for the record I like Heidi Allen for other, less intellectual, reasons ????).

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Following May's insulting speech from Downing Street 10 days ago I posted an angry comment. I was suspended for 10 days under section (9).

 

I accepted this with equanimity. This is a private website and moderators are free to act as they see fit.

 

However, for clarity, my comment was not due to misogynistic ideas on my part.

 

I condemn May for being useless, unpleasant, dishonest, divisive and psychotic; NOT because she is a woman.

 

To avoid any further risk of being condemned for misogyny, I have added the complainant to my ignore list in perpetuity.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, I like Anna Soubry, Heidi Allen and Yvette Cooper; I do not care for Caroline Flint, Margaret Hodge and Andrea Leadsom. Not because they are women but because of their political views and attitudes. (for the record I like Heidi Allen for other, less intellectual, reasons ????).

 

 

Yes, I believe you ????.

 

Somehow I know that you are blaming me for reporting you to the mods - but (unlike you) I rarely go squealing to the mods over posts I dislike - so I'm pretty sure I'm not the one who reported you. ????

 

But to look on the bright side, hopefully you think it's me - and so have put me on your ignore list!

Edited March 31, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[malagateddy]

Grouse..We Brexiteers are made of better stuff than grasses..maybe look at some of the perfect word imo dreamers??

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[Grouse]

7 hours ago, tomacht8 said:

Is ok.

Relax.

The only thing I disagree with you is:

Your statement:

English is the International language , once you can speak English fluently , theres no need to learn any other language 

 

There is no reason to reject other cultures and speak with a high nose of superiority.

 

You are absolutely correct

 

It is no surprise to me that that a Brexiter would fail to grasp the points you make.

 

I don't think that one can hope to understand another culture without understanding their language, even modestly.

 

Cross cultural understanding is key to diplomacy, business and, frankly, peace.

 

This was nicely illustrated recently following announcements from Japanese car manufacturers. American and British media fail to understand the nuanced nature of Japanese culture!

 

I learnt Latin at school and was frequently punished for my poor performance. It was, and is, a boon however.

 

I have German and Danish though neither is entirely fluent. German was taught as part of my degree. I used to get a girl reading German, but in my college, to do the assignments! However, I learnt the language more thoroughly whilst living near Heidelberg.

 

My father was a linguist and spoke 7 languages fluently. He taught French and German and was at involved with Bletchley during the war (The "Y" service since you ask). He was rubbish at Physics.

 

It is indeed fortune for us that English has replaced French as the lingua franca of diplomacy and indeed English is the official language within several German corporations including Siemens. Nevertheless understanding, even partially, another individual's native tongue is courteous and lubricates commerce and diplomacy.

 

It is sad that the uptake of degree courses in foreign languages is dropping. A sad reflection on the rapid fall of our own culture I fear. 

 

 

[bannork]

The Europeans who thought they might follow the British and leave the EU seem to have changed their minds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/frexit-italeave-after-watching-brexit-other-european-countries-say-no-thanks/2019/03/29/7b6e059a-4be0-11e9-8cfc-2c5d0999c21e_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.97ef633f8584

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, bannork said:

The Europeans who thought they might follow the British and leave the EU seem to have changed their minds.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/frexit-italeave-after-watching-brexit-other-european-countries-say-no-thanks/2019/03/29/7b6e059a-4be0-11e9-8cfc-2c5d0999c21e_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.97ef633f8584

"Seem to have changed their mind" is not the same as 'have' changed their mind, there is only one way to find out, let them have a referendum. What are they afraid of, what could possibly go wrong.

[bannork]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

"Seem to have changed their mind" is not the same as 'have' changed their mind, there is only one way to find out, let them have a referendum. What are they afraid of, what could possibly go wrong.

Talking of which, let's have another referendum about Brexit. What could possibly go wrong?

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, bannork said:

Talking of which, let's have another referendum about Brexit. What could possibly go wrong?

Miss my sarcasm did we?

[billd766]

16 minutes ago, bannork said:

Talking of which, let's have another referendum about Brexit. What could possibly go wrong?

Why not get this one over first?

 

IMO there may be a second referendum and it may possibly arrive after the next general election.

[Greenisland]

11 hours ago, sanemax said:

If Spanish man  went to India , what language would he likely talk to the locals in ?

Mandarin ?

If a Japanese man goes to Nigeria , what language would he likely speak to the locals in ?

  Hindi ?

If a Dutch guy goes to Thailand , what language would he speak to the locals in ?

Spanish ?

English is the current lingua franca and it's widely used as international language. 

 

Then again, it's no use in for example in South and Central America, where Spanish has similar strong presence.  

 

[Greenisland]

No deal Brexit seems to be the way where England is going. This indecision will eventually break the Ununited Kingdom after few years. Scotland is eager to get it's own freedom from England and later on it will be one of the independent EU members. 

 

Northern Ireland? Perhaps or perhaps it will not join the rest of the Ireland at some point.

 

Wales will stay as England's vassal state.

 

Will England try to re-join the EU after 10 years and would EU member states let it do so at that point? Remember that all the member states must agree to the decision. 

 

UK (actually England) doesn't have a good reputation at the moment. Perhaps it will get better, but also quite likely it will not and England becomes even more of an grumpy old uncle of Europe.  The one others wish to keep out of the dinner table.

[david555]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

"Seem to have changed their mind" is not the same as 'have' changed their mind, there is only one way to find out, let them have a referendum. What are they afraid of, what could possibly go wrong.

Would you not conclude your own referendum result in final practice before bragging about it ...as it is not even at anyone's satisfaction …..as NO party's are getting the Brexit they want  

 I think the E.U. is very grateful to the U.K. to make such a mess out of it.. that nobody else would even consider it from now on !  ….. However I find the E.U. should consider seriously to have an article to KICK some out..., if behaving like E.U. now in their for ever "Mary go round" Brexit saga in the H.O.C.

Edited March 31, 2019 by david555

[Baerboxer]

On 3/30/2019 at 5:33 AM, pegman said:

So how long can the hurt from a no deal leaving last? Decade or two? Just get on with it. 

 

Or centuries? You seem to take the rather optimistic view that recovery is inevitable, It isn't.

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Greenisland said:

No deal Brexit seems to be the way where England is going. This indecision will eventually break the Ununited Kingdom after few years. Scotland is eager to get it's own freedom from England and later on it will be one of the independent EU members. 

 

Northern Ireland? Perhaps or perhaps it will not join the rest of the Ireland at some point.

 

Wales will stay as England's vassal state.

 

Will England try to re-join the EU after 10 years and would EU member states let it do so at that point? Remember that all the member states must agree to the decision. 

 

UK (actually England) doesn't have a good reputation at the moment. Perhaps it will get better, but also quite likely it will not and England becomes even more of an grumpy old uncle of Europe.  The one others wish to keep out of the dinner table.

 

Delusions. You think all those things will happen "just like that"! 

 

The EU, of which the UK is still currently a member, has a bad reputation as a whole, with some member states having a worse one that the UK by far.

 

Those countries milking the EU system and constantly moaning for more hand-outs in their self entitled fashion whilst doing little to change from being a negative contributor are simply hoping Germany will stump up what the EU losses from the UK's contribution. Because dishonest France won't suddenly become a net contributor.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

"Seem to have changed their mind" is not the same as 'have' changed their mind, there is only one way to find out, let them have a referendum. What are they afraid of, what could possibly go wrong.

 

I go back to just after the UK Brexit referendum and it's result. The then excellent French Foreign Minister suggested that this result was a wake up call to all of the EU, it's commission, officers, member states etc. Moreover he suggested that the "cherished" view of certain leaders, for ever closer unity, more federalization, should be put to the people of the EU in similar referendums to test the support for the vision and strategy the EU leaders were espousing and pursuing.

 

He was quickly silenced. Such dangerous views and democratic thinking weren't warmly received!

[Greenisland]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Delusions. You think all those things will happen "just like that"! 

 

The EU, of which the UK is still currently a member, has a bad reputation as a whole, with some member states having a worse one that the UK by far.

 

Those countries milking the EU system and constantly moaning for more hand-outs in their self entitled fashion whilst doing little to change from being a negative contributor are simply hoping Germany will stump up what the EU losses from the UK's contribution. Because dishonest France won't suddenly become a net contributor.

Nope. Nothing happens "just like that". Future's historic events are cascade of tiny events, which become a tsunami, which few can stop anymore. That is what is happening right now. Birth of moronic tsunami.

 

UK's reputation has gone down a lot lately. UK is a bit like a country covered with Trump's fat arse. 

 

UK might or might not get rid of that arse in the future. I think it will stay on it's place for some time.

 

Those countries milking EU money has actually become countries which are about to give more and more money to our all benefit. That's the idea of the EU ideology. We help the poor to become richer.. so that they can help us in the future. Together we are simply stronger and can support the places which require help.

 

But hey. UK is heading out of this co-operation, the rest fo the EU member states value so highly. Good luck on your voyage  and see you in 10 years time. 

[Baerboxer]

2 hours ago, Greenisland said:

English is the current lingua franca and it's widely used as international language. 

 

Then again, it's no use in for example in South and Central America, where Spanish has similar strong presence.  

 

 

And if countries, businesses, people in South and Central America wish to do business, study, or engage with countries around the world, guess which language they must use?

 

Clue: it isn't the language of their former oppressive colonial master and exploiter.

[NeoDinosaw]

On 3/30/2019 at 2:42 PM, Basil B said:

Sorry nether did Latin at school, why learn a extinct language of old dinosaurs and fossils?

 

I didn't do Latin either, but as a palaeontologist, I can assure you that neith old [and young] dinosaurs nor any fossil can speak !

[david555]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

And if countries, businesses, people in South and Central America wish to do business, study, or engage with countries around the world, guess which language they must use?

 

Clue: it isn't the language of their former oppressive colonial master and exploiter.

But that use of English is thanks to the USA exporting it in this modern times ….

BTW my keyboard is set to American English.., as I see them more moderate to non English speakers use of English ….probably because they are born out  immigrants as new nation

[Greenisland]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

And if countries, businesses, people in South and Central America wish to do business, study, or engage with countries around the world, guess which language they must use?

 

Clue: it isn't the language of their former oppressive colonial master and exploiter.

Have a go to South America and find yourself in a situation where you can't get things done or order food in English.

 

English is indeed the current lingua franca... the then French language, which was widely used all over the world some time ago. The status of English language is now very strong, like French was before. It also is likely to change at some point in the future. 

 

You can stay as you are for the rest of your life. The world is moving forward. 

 

[Baerboxer]

3 minutes ago, Greenisland said:

Nope. Nothing happens "just like that". Future's historic events are cascade of tiny events, which become a tsunami, which few can stop anymore. That is what is happening right now. Birth of moronic tsunami.

 

UK's reputation has gone down a lot lately. UK is a bit like a country covered with Trump's fat arse. 

 

UK might or might not get rid of that arse in the future. I think it will stay on it's place for some time.

 

Those countries milking EU money has actually become countries which are about to give more and more money to our all benefit. That's the idea of the EU ideology. We help the poor to become richer.. so that they can help us in the future. Together we are simply stronger and can support the places which require help.

 

But hey. UK is heading out of this co-operation, the rest fo the EU member states value so highly. Good luck on your voyage  and see you in 10 years time. 

 

Trump was democratically elected. The advisory UK referendum was essentially democratic.

 

But it seems like many in the EU, you only respect it when you like the result!  

 

The idea of helping poorer countries getting richer, stronger and better is a good one. Some of those countries seem keen to do just that. Other sit on their fat <deleted>, demanding more and more and refusing to change their old inefficient, unproductive ways whilst still expecting to retire earlier and work less than those supporting them. The old North v South, West v East divides. 

 

Let's see what happens. Worst EU scenario, UK leaves with no deal therefore no big payments to the EU and Germany's economy founders. Even if the latter doesn't happen, many Germans are getting fed up working hard to support lazy others.

[ivor bigun]

Is this the bit where the EU members come begging capinhand for a deal with the UK?

No just begging for money to prop up all the countrys that should not be in the EU. Well tough sh-t

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[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

But that use of English is thanks to the USA exporting it in this modern times ….

BTW my keyboard is set to American English.., as I see them more moderate to non English speakers use of English ….probably because they are born out  immigrants as new nation

 

I think the UK was exporting English way before the US was. But indeed, as the British Empire declined after WW11 the American Empire flourished. 

 

 

[Greenisland]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Trump was democratically elected. The advisory UK referendum was essentially democratic.

 

But it seems like many in the EU, you only respect it when you like the result!  

 

The idea of helping poorer countries getting richer, stronger and better is a good one. Some of those countries seem keen to do just that. Other sit on their fat <deleted>, demanding more and more and refusing to change their old inefficient, unproductive ways whilst still expecting to retire earlier and work less than those supporting them. The old North v South, West v East divides. 

 

Let's see what happens. Worst EU scenario, UK leaves with no deal therefore no big payments to the EU and Germany's economy founders. Even if the latter doesn't happen, many Germans are getting fed up working hard to support lazy others.

You bore me with your jadajada talk.

 

Most EU countries has become more fairer, more open and done better when they have become EU members. 

 

Too bad, you can't see this. 

 

If there is no-deal, UK will still have to pay it's earlier agreed commitments to the EU. The sum will be naturally less than 39 billion. It is still going to be significant for UK, not for much larger the EU.

[david555]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Trump was democratically elected. The advisory UK referendum was essentially democratic.

 

But it seems like many in the EU, you only respect it when you like the result!  

 

The idea of helping poorer countries getting richer, stronger and better is a good one. Some of those countries seem keen to do just that. Other sit on their fat <deleted>, demanding more and more and refusing to change their old inefficient, unproductive ways whilst still expecting to retire earlier and work less than those supporting them. The old North v South, West v East divides. 

 

Let's see what happens. Worst EU scenario, UK leaves with no deal therefore no big payments to the EU and Germany's economy founders. Even if the latter doesn't happen, many Germans are getting fed up working hard to support lazy others.

A important quote from Barnier …., (especially for trade talks after a nodeal Brexit end …)

 

 

The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, told the diplomats during the meeting that a no deal was now “the most plausible outcome”, and that there was an urgent need to war-game the bloc’s response to it. The EU is to step up its “full-on crisis” preparations, according to a diplomatic note.

It was agreed among the member states that for there to be any talks after the UK has crashed out, the bloc’s 27 capitals will expect Downing Street to agree to signal by 18 April that it will pay the £39bn Brexit bill despite the failure of the Commons to ratify the withdrawal agreement......

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, Greenisland said:

Have a go to South America and find yourself in a situation where you can't get things done or order food in English.

 

English is indeed the current lingua franca... the then French language, which was widely used all over the world some time ago. The status of English language is now very strong, like French was before. It also is likely to change at some point in the future. 

 

You can stay as you are for the rest of your life. The world is moving forward. 

 

 

What nonsense. French was spoken throughout the French Empire. It declined as the French Empire did. English was more widely spoken than French due to the empires and influence of the UK and US. Guess which foreign language most Chinese learn? Guess which language is the language of business, law etc in India?

 

The world might be moving forward but the global language of science, business, academia is English. And that isn't likely to change. If your're smart, make sure your children learn Chinese as a second language.

Not some irrelevant language such as French or Spanish. Unless their aspirations are to order a Big Mac in South America or whatever!

[david555]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I think the UK was exporting English way before the US was. But indeed, as the British Empire declined after WW11 the American Empire flourished. 

 

 

Hence your P.E.S.   "Post Empire Syndrome …" 

About the modern times US exporting/ use  of international business language I was referring , not the Victorian colonization era...

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, Greenisland said:

You bore me with your jadajada talk.

 

Most EU countries has become more fairer, more open and done better when they have become EU members. 

 

Too bad, you can't see this. 

 

If there is no-deal, UK will still have to pay it's earlier agreed commitments to the EU. The sum will be naturally less than 39 billion. It is still going to be significant for UK, not for much larger the EU.

 

Then don't bother reading the posts newbie. No one forces you too.

 

Yep, Greece maintained it's unjustified self indulgent lavish lifestyle for much longer with EU hand-outs.

 

Too bad you seem to expect this, that others should work and pay to support the lazy. 

 

The UK won't have to pay anything if the negotiated deal isn't formally signed by both parties. It's a proposal at the moment. Should the UK agree to pay, then the EU must make clear how the UK's share of EU assets will be apportioned to the UK too.