Trump says vote on healthcare can wait until after 2020 election

[Thainesss]

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Trump and the Republicans have had years, and they've never come close to any kind of viable health care plan that incorporates the things most Americans need and want:

--shrinking the portion of the U.S. population that's uninsured.

--providing broad access to reasonable health care coverage at affordable prices.

--require coverage, and ban cancellations, for people with pre-existing conditions.

 

It funny because Obamacare barely did any of that and at extreme cost to the working middle class. Employed families of 4 saw their premiums rise to the same level as their mortgage for worse coverage. 

[Thainesss]

55 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

--providing broad access to reasonable health care coverage at affordable prices.

 

BRONZE plans. Some of the crappiest plans available. 

 

Chomper Higgins apparently thinks this is "funny" I guess? This costs MORE than a mortgage in some instances for garbage policy. 

 

Quote

The average deductible for a 2019 bronze policy -- which have higher deductibles, but lower premiums than other tiers of Obamacare plans -- is nearly $5,900, while the average maximum of out-of-pocket limit is just under $7,000, according to Health Pocket, an online health insurance shopping tool. Family bronze plans have an average deductible of just under $12,200 and an average out-of-pocket maximum of nearly $14,000.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/04/01/politics/fact-check-obamacare-deductibles/index.html?utm_term=image&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2019-04-02T13%3A00%3A07&utm_source=twCNNp

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Thainesss said:

I favor coverage for people with pre-existing conditions, Trump does too, and so does almost everyone. Thats about the only aspect of "obamacare" that was a positive. 

 

That's what Trump says in public. But then what he and his administration try to do through proposed legislation and budgets, administrative regulations and litigation is exactly the opposite. Below is just one example.

 

And of course, as was in the news recently, another example would be Trump's Justice Department now urging the courts to totally invalidate Obamacare, which AFAIK would erase everything and all of its coverage protections nationwide.

 

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/patient-support-advocacy/trump-rule-would-revive-pre-existing-condition

 

Quote

Trump rule would revive pre-existing condition discrimination

The Trump administration’s rule will undermine the Affordable Care Act’s (ACA) reforms by depriving patients of essential care, allowing insurers to discriminate against individuals based on pre-existing health conditions, destabilizing the insurance markets and exposing patients to fraud, physicians told the court.
..........

The lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia seeks to vacate the Labor Department’s June final rule that allows AHPs to offer health insurance that qualifies as large group coverage to all of its employer members.
 

The new designation means AHPs would no longer need to comply with consumer protections under the current law that ensure health plans provide minimum essential health benefits, including maternity care, prescription medication and mental health and substance-use disorder services. The rule also would eliminate protections against annual and lifetime limits and out-of-pocket expenses.

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Thainesss said:

 

It funny because Obamacare barely did any of that and at extreme cost to the working middle class. Employed families of 4 saw their premiums rise to the same level as their mortgage for worse coverage. 

 

My response:
 

Quote

 

The number of uninsured, and the share of the nonelderly population that was uninsured, rose from 44.2 million (17.1%) to 46.5 million (17.8%) between 2008 and 2010 as the country faced an economic recession (Figure 1). As early provisions of the ACA went into effect in 2010, and as the economy improved, the number of uninsured people and uninsured rate began to drop. When the major ACA coverage provisions went into effect in 2014, the number of uninsured and uninsured rate dropped dramatically and continued to fall through 2016, when just below 27 million people (10% of the nonelderly population) lacked coverage.

 

 

https://www.kff.org/uninsured/fact-sheet/key-facts-about-the-uninsured-population/

Edited April 2, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[phkauf]

1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

As economists have repeatedlly pointed out, 84 percent of stocks are owned by the top 10 percent of the population. The middle class has largely divested itself of stocks.

And a big reason stocks rose is that taxes were slashed on corporations in the Trump tax bill so dividends soared. Another reason is that the wealthy have so much spare cash thanks to repeated tax cuts that interest rates are way down so their dollars go chasing after other places to park them.

https://www.npr.org/2017/03/01/517975766/while-trump-touts-stock-market-many-americans-left-out-of-the-conversation

You have clearly misread the information you presented (or just are too stupid to understand statistics). The Gallup poll from 2016 has 52% of all Adult Americans owning stock. Down from 65% during Obama's recession - so that's another feather in Obama's cap.

The numbers you point out are that 81% of all stock is owned by the wealthiest 10%, which makes sense since they are the wealthiest - D'Uh!! Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and all the other billionaires are wealthy because of the value of their stockholdings. 

Stock prices have risen because Trump changed the dynamic so that companies are not overly regulated and willing to invest and grow their business. Stock prices are a reflection of future earnings growth.

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Thainesss said:

 

It funny because Obamacare barely did any of that and at extreme cost to the working middle class. Employed families of 4 saw their premiums rise to the same level as their mortgage for worse coverage. 

That would be the case if most people on the exchanges weren't having their policies subsidized: On average $525 out of an average onthly premium of $612 

 

https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/health-insurance-exchanges-2019-open-enrollment-report

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

AFAIK, there's no doubt that premiums for the middle class and up rose in some cases substantially. But why that happened seems to be a matter of some debate, and likely not due just to the provisions of Obamacare itself.

 

From what I've read on the subject, the Trump admin's unceasing efforts to kill and dismantle ACA also contributed to insurers dropping out of certain markets, which often resulted in higher premiums. As did his Admin dropping the tax penalty for individuals who didn't obtain qualifying health coverage, which made it easier for the young and healthy to bail out of the insurance system, which in turn contributed to rising premiums overall.

 

[metisdead]

Inflammatory, insulting posts and replies have been removed:

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[Thainesss]

20 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

That would be the case if most people on the exchanges weren't having their policies subsidized: On average $525 out of an average onthly premium of $612 

 

https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/health-insurance-exchanges-2019-open-enrollment-report

 

You realize that the premium cost on a bronze plan is almost insignificant right? There's the "premium" cost and the "out of pocket" cost and the "deductable" cost. 

 

If a family can't afford $ 600 a month, how will they afford an additional $10,000 in an emergency? 

 

I really want to know something - are you American and do you partake in U.S. Health care? 

[bristolboy]

For those who believe that there are as many more people disadvantaged by Obamacare than there are those who benefit, here's a short list of facts.

61,000,000 million Americans would be excluded from getting insurance because they are in a very high risk pre-existing condtion pool

Another 72 million with less severe preexisting conditions would have to pay much higher premiums.

That's a total of 133 million Americans. 

https://aspe.hhs.gov/system/files/pdf/255396/Pre-ExistingConditions.pdf

Then there's the fact that 105 million Americans, those in employer provided plans and those purchasing in the individual marketplace no longer face caps on their insurance policies. In other words, if they have an illness that requires very expensive treatment, the insurance company can't say no.

https://www.healthinsurance.org/blog/2012/03/06/lifetime-limits-on-your-health-insurance-coverage-are-a-big-million-dollar-deal/

And that means that thousands of Americans no longer face bankruptcy because of costly medical treatments

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/15/14563182/obamacare-lifetime-limits-ban

Then there are the roughly 13 million Americans too poor to afford health insurance who are now getting health insurance through Medicaid.

https://www.macpac.gov/subtopic/medicaid-enrollment-changes-following-the-aca/

And roughly 60 million people on Medicare would lose their right to free wellness care and diabetes checks. And they would have to start paying for prescriptions

https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/what-are-the-implications-of-repealing-the-affordable-care-act-for-medicare-spending-and-beneficiaries/

[bristolboy]

14 hours ago, Thainesss said:

 

Weird. I distinctly remember Trump winning the 2016 presidential election by shouting from the rooftops about repealing Obamacare. 

Trump said lots of things during that campaign. He didn't just promise to repeal Obamacare, did he?. He promised to replace it with something much better.

Where is that replacement? Another campaign promise he has reneged on.

And once again, in the 2018 midterms Republicans campaigned on immigration and the Democrats on health care. How did that work out for Republicans?

Here's what the Fox News poll had to say about the 2018 midterms:

"Top issue: Health care.  While majorities of likely voters say the economy (54 percent) and President Trump (51 percent) will be "extremely" important to their House vote, more voters feel that way about health care (58 percent) -- and that group prefers the Democratic candidate by a 24-point margin.  Meanwhile, a majority disapproves of how Trump is handling health care."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/president-trump-health-care-drive-midterm-elections

ANd here's what Trump said 5 days before his inauguration:

"Trump said his plan for replacing most aspects of Obama’s health-care law is all but finished. Although he was coy about its details — “lower numbers, much lower deductibles” — he said he is ready to unveil it alongside Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.).

“It’s very much formulated down to the final strokes. We haven’t put it in quite yet but we’re going to be doing it soon,” Trump said. :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-vows-insurance-for-everybody-in-obamacare-replacement-plan/2017/01/15/5f2b1e18-db5d-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html?utm_term=.ae7610a619a3

I think that qualifies as a big fat lie.

Edited April 3, 2019 by metisdead
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[farcanell]

Lol... focus....

6 hours ago, mike324 said:

Come on Trump supporters now, what has he accomplish? I really fail to see a single thing he did that is actually benefiting American citizens as a whole? 

So that’s the question, which illicited this rubbish below, that is demonstrably untrue

 

5 hours ago, phkauf said:

Hmmm, a 47% increase in the DJIA for starters. This alone has benefited nearly everyone who owned stocks the past two years. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. 

Further.... Stats, charts, graphs, whatever, show that the stock market has increased at the same rate for most of the last ten years (perhaps less now, but that could be another blip to revisit in a year), so logically, Obama’s administration should get credit for any stock market windfalls, or at least a similar comment regards benefits to stock owners for comparable gains during A44..... but regardless, the stock market under A45 is not doing any better than it was pre trump.... and then it goes even more pear shaped for you

 

44 minutes ago, phkauf said:

https://www.npr.org/2017/03/01/517975766/while-trump-touts-stock-market-many-americans-left-out-of-the-conversation

You have clearly misread the information you presented (or just are too stupid to understand statistics). The Gallup poll from 2016 has 52% of all Adult Americans owning stock. Down from 65% during Obama's recession - so that's another feather in Obama's cap.

The numbers you point out are that 81% of all stock is owned by the wealthiest 10%, which makes sense since they are the wealthiest - D'Uh!! Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg and all the other billionaires are wealthy because of the value of their stockholdings. 

Stock prices have risen because Trump changed the dynamic so that companies are not overly regulated and willing to invest and grow their business. Stock prices are a reflection of future earnings growth.

The post at the top clearly speaks of American citizens as a whole.... yet this post, and the one you where trying to debunk, clearly show that the average American is not benefiting from the stock market increase, so you have blown your original argument

 

further, because the chart shows no real difference in its climb rate, from A44 to A45, logically one can assume that A45 has added nothing to the equation

 

worth noting is that a good percentage of (low or middle class) citizens that do own stocks, do so by virtue of superannuation or similar.... a crash as seen in 2007/2008 will see those average citizens loose out, as the benefits you talk of, are only on paper, and mean nothing till the dollars are in the pocket.

 

so..... why not do a trump and deflect to hamburgers being more readily available as a benifit of A45 (can’t provide a link to that)  or something more realistic, because this argument of yours was ill conceived, even if it applies directly to you

 

[bristolboy]

12 hours ago, farcanell said:

Lol... focus....

So that’s the question, which illicited this rubbish below, that is demonstrably untrue

 

Further.... Stats, charts, graphs, whatever, show that the stock market has increased at the same rate for most of the last ten years (perhaps less now, but that could be another blip to revisit in a year), so logically, Obama’s administration should get credit for any stock market windfalls, or at least a similar comment regards benefits to stock owners for comparable gains during A44..... but regardless, the stock market under A45 is not doing any better than it was pre trump.... and then it goes even more pear shaped for you

 

The post at the top clearly speaks of American citizens as a whole.... yet this post, and the one you where trying to debunk, clearly show that the average American is not benefiting from the stock market increase, so you have blown your original argument

 

further, because the chart shows no real difference in its climb rate, from A44 to A45, logically one can assume that A45 has added nothing to the equation

 

worth noting is that a good percentage of (low or middle class) citizens that do own stocks, do so by virtue of superannuation or similar.... a crash as seen in 2007/2008 will see those average citizens loose out, as the benefits you talk of, are only on paper, and mean nothing till the dollars are in the pocket.

 

so..... why not do a trump and deflect to hamburgers being more readily available as a benifit of A45 (can’t provide a link to that)  or something more realistic, because this argument of yours was ill conceived, even if it applies directly to you

 

Actually, 84 percent of stocks are owned by the top 10 percent income percentile of Americans. And that sharply skews upwards the higher the percentil is. For the big majority of Americans it's doesn't mean much.

The Richest 10% of Americans Now Own 84% of All Stocks

“Despite the fact that almost half of all households owned stock shares either directly or indirectly through mutual funds, trusts, or various pension accounts, the richest 10% of households controlled 84% of the total value of these stocks in 2016,” Wolff writes.

That number—which accounts for individual shares as well as stocks held via mutual funds—represents a big change from 2001, when the top 10% owned just 77% of all stocks.

Furthermore, while virtually all (94%) of the very rich reported having significant stock holdings—as defined as $10,000 or more in shares—only 27% of the middle class did.

http://money.com/money/5054009/stock-ownership-10-percent-richest/

Edited April 3, 2019 by metisdead
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[bristolboy]

ANd of course, Trump has been doing everything he can to make health insurance more expensive:

Trump’s Proposed ACA Rules Could Boost Costs for Millions of People

The Trump administration on Thursday proposed changes that could raise health insurance costs for millions of Americans who get coverage on the job or receive subsidies under the Affordable Care Act, a move that Republicans said is necessary to cut inflated subsidies but Democrats viewed as another GOP effort to sabotage the health law...

The plan would also change a calculation that determines how much people pay if they buy insurance from the ACA exchange and get credits to reduce their monthly premiums. The change could raise premiums next year for many of the roughly 9 million people who get the credit.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-proposed-aca-rules-could-lift-costs-for-millions-of-people-11547775475

 

The Effects of Ending the Affordable Care Act’s Cost-Sharing Reduction Payments

"We have previously estimated that insurers would need to raise silver premiums by about 19% on average to compensate for the loss of CSR payments. Our assumption is that insurers would only increase silver premiums (if allowed to do so by regulators), since those are the only plans where cost-sharing reductions are available. The premium increases would be higher in states that have not expanded Medicaid (and lower in states that have), since there are a large number of marketplace enrollees in those states with incomes 100-138% of poverty who qualify for the largest cost-sharing reductions."

https://www.kff.org/health-reform/issue-brief/the-effects-of-ending-the-affordable-care-acts-cost-sharing-reduction-payments/?utm_campaign=KFF-2017-April-Eliminating-ACA-Cost-Sharing-Payments&utm_content=61681567&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Obamacare bombshell: Trump kills key payments to health insurers

• The payments reimburse insurers for discounts in health costs offered to low- and middle-income Obamacare customers.
• Insurers were projected to receive $10 billion in subsidies in 2018.
• Some premiums for 2018 are already higher because insurers feared the Trump administration would end the payments.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/12/obamacare-bombshell-trump-kills-key-payments-to-health-insurers.html

Edited April 3, 2019 by metisdead
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[bristolboy]

Skimpy health plans touted by Trump bring back familiar woes for consumers

"There used to be a lot of health insurance horror stories like Charley Butler’s.

After the Montana truck driver was diagnosed with testicular cancer in 2016, his insurer balked at paying tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills and then moved to cancel his coverage over a preexisting medical condition.

These practices were largely banned by the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, which set new national health insurance standards to protect consumers and bar discrimination based on preexisting conditions."

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-shortterm-health-insurance-consumer-problems-20190402-story.html

Edited April 3, 2019 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

11 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Skimpy health plans touted by Trump bring back familiar woes for consumers

"There used to be a lot of health insurance horror stories like Charley Butler’s.

After the Montana truck driver was diagnosed with testicular cancer in 2016, his insurer balked at paying tens of thousands of dollars in medical bills and then moved to cancel his coverage over a preexisting medical condition.

These practices were largely banned by the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, which set new national health insurance standards to protect consumers and bar discrimination based on preexisting conditions."

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-shortterm-health-insurance-consumer-problems-20190402-story.html

 

That's a good and telling article, for the woes faced by that guy and others who have opted into Trump-style, largely good-for-nothing health insurance plans.

 

The shams and scams that the guy experienced in the article are the kind of "great" and "affordable" health care plans that Trump and Co. want to replace the ACA with. Just about as good and reliable as all the other Trump ventures that have failed thru the years after being launched and promoted by the snake oil salesman in chief.

 

[heybruce]

6 hours ago, phkauf said:

Hmmm, a 47% increase in the DJIA for starters. This alone has benefited nearly everyone who owned stocks the past two years. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. 

From Jan 20, 2017 to Apr 1, 2019 the DJIA has risen 32%.  During the comparable period of the Obama Presidency it rose 53%. 

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Thainesss said:

 

Weird. I distinctly remember Trump winning the 2016 presidential election by shouting from the rooftops about repealing Obamacare. 

Yes, he promised to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something much better and cheaper.  He hasn't done it, but apparently thinks he can repeat the same lie in 2020 and his base will be dumb enough to fall for it again. Will they?

[bendejo]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I think the GOP are regretting tagging the ACA as 'Obama Care'.

 

Exactly.  DT's only problem with it is the name.

 

And he has thus given a gift to the Dems, they can run on health care in 2020, and do it GOP style, fear turned up to full volume: "he's going to take away your health insurance!  Look at Maisie Hatfield in Cowtown Missouri, had to sell the family farm to pay for insulin!"

 

 

Edited April 2, 2019 by bendejo

[lannarebirth]

52 minutes ago, bendejo said:

Exactly.  DT's only problem with it is the name.

 

And he has thus given a gift to the Dems, they can run on health care in 2020, and do it GOP style, fear turned up to full volume: "he's going to take away your health insurance!  Look at Maisie Hatfield in Cowtown Missouri, had to sell the family farm to pay for insulin!"

 

 

 

Either way, it's going to have people on both sides screaming for shitty healthcare insurance coverage.

[Berkshire]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Sounds reasonable. Makes it an election issue and forces the GOP leaders to do something about it.

IMO Trump is hoping the GOP will take back the house, which will make passing a new health care bill much easier.

Wow.  I mean just wow.  Surely you know the GOP had the House and Senate for Trump's first two years.  If they couldn't get a decent healthcare bill through then, how the heck can they do it.....ever?

[Berkshire]

16 hours ago, cycolista said:

I hear his golf game has improved.

Well he's played enough golf, more than any other President.  But then, how can anyone tell when Trump always cheats? 

 

[“He cheats like a mafia accountant,” Reilly told John Berman, of CNN’s New Day. “He cheats crazy. He cheats whether you’re watching or not. He cheats whether you like it or not. He tried to cheat Tiger Woods in a match… [Trump] hits two balls in the water, doesn’t count either, and pretends that he almost tied Tiger Woods.”]

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-even-tried-to-cheat-tiger-woods-at-golf-says-rick-reilly-author-of-commander-in-cheat?ref=wrap

 

[Thainesss]

3 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Wow.  I mean just wow.  Surely you know the GOP had the House and Senate for Trump's first two years.  If they couldn't get a decent healthcare bill through then, how the heck can they do it.....ever?

 

Another softball hitter that doesn't know what a filibuster is. 

[mikebike]

16 hours ago, phkauf said:

Hmmm, a 47% increase in the DJIA for starters. This alone has benefited nearly everyone who owned stocks the past two years. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. 

So more goodies for the stock-owning class and more nothing-burger for the working class. That is not helping the country as a whole.

[mikebike]

14 hours ago, Thainesss said:

the democrats have made Trump their issue and nothing else. 

Apparently you are not paying attention to the multitude of policy proposals made by Dem primary contenders.

 

Hint... non are running on "Trump".

Edited April 3, 2019 by mikebike

[mikebike]

14 hours ago, Thainesss said:

 

Weird. I distinctly remember Trump winning the 2016 presidential election by shouting from the rooftops about repealing Obamacare. 

No. Dems lost the election by pushing a highly disliked, maintain-the-status-quo, establishment, corporatist, 90s-style candidate in an election cycle where that was never gonna work. 

[EVENKEEL]

7 minutes ago, mikebike said:

So more goodies for the stock-owning class and more nothing-burger for the working class. That is not helping the country as a whole.

You are clueless if you don't think working class have 401 accounts for retirement.

[mikebike]

13 hours ago, Thainesss said:

It funny because Obamacare barely did any of that and at extreme cost to the working middle class.

Well of course Romney-Care was always a stupid idea. Better than the nothing which preceded it, but a classic Obama half-measure appeasement. Obama was a great campaigner but a rather weak governor.

[Becker]

People really have to stop listening to what comes out of the pie hole of the embarrassment in the WH. Chances are overwhelmingly it's a lie:

 

Trump now averages 22 lies a day

 

 

[mikebike]

23 minutes ago, Thainesss said:

 

Another softball hitter that doesn't know what a filibuster is. 

They had the numbers to filibuster-proof any legislation they wished. They couldn't get enough if their own GOP representatives on board because those members knew they would get crushed in the midterms.